Trump's oil "deal" and gunboat diplomacy | Sources & Methods

The NPR Politics Podcast

This episode of NPR's Sources & Methods examines the Trump administration's aggressive foreign policy in Latin America, focusing on its cont

Key takeaways

• The Trump administration's 'Donroe Doctrine' marks a shift toward direct U.S. government control over foreign natural resources, exemplified by a deal giving the U.S. majority stake in Venezuelan oil via a private company with ties to money laundering.
• The Pentagon's involvement through the Office of Strategic Capital—originally meant for weapons development—is unprecedented and signals a blurring of military and economic roles.

Main topics

• U.S. military involvement in Venezuelan oil production
• Trump administration's 'Donroe Doctrine' in Latin America

Notable quotes

"The U.S. government is going to partner with Venezuela's second largest private oil company... The White House is saying this deal is going to give the U.S. majority control of more than 65 billion barrels of Venezuelan oil."

"It really is highly unusual... the head of the Venezuelan oil company has been investigated for money laundering in Switzerland."

Conclusion

The episode concludes that while the Trump administration's actions in Venezuela represent a dramatic

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:00) As the political landscape shifts beneath our feet, we're all vulnerable to a well-funded distraction economy determined to take our eye off the ball. Our weekly politics series, If You Can Keep It, is here to help, where our focus is not the horse race, but the state. We tackle the big political stories of the day and why they matter for our democracy. Join me, Todd Zwilich. And me, Jen White, on the 1A Podcast from WAMU and NPR. Speaker 8 (0:24) Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Ashley Lopez, I cover politics, and today on the show we want to highlight the reporting from our fellow NPR podcast, Sources and Methods. If you're not familiar, it's a podcast focusing on national security issues. It comes out every Thursday and it's worth a listen. Here's the latest episode. Speaker 6 (0:45) We certainly see President Trump being more active in Latin America than any other president in recent years. We'll have to see how much pushback we find from countries in the region in the years to come. Speaker 2 (0:59) The U.S. military is blowing up boats again, and it's taking a stake in the Venezuelan oil business. What is the Trump administration trying to achieve in the Western Hemisphere? This is Sources and Methods from NPR. Speaker 2 (1:18) I'm Scott Detrow, in for Mayor Louise Kelly. Each week on the show, we walk through the week's biggest national security news with our team in Washington and around the world. And this week, that is NPR national security correspondent Greg Myrie. Hey, Greg. Hey, Scott. And we've got John Otis, who reports for NPR from throughout Latin America. He joins us today from his home base in Bogota, Colombia. Hey, John. Speaker 1 (1:39) Hi, Scott. Quick Speaker 2 (1:40) note, since there's always more news, we are talking around noon Eastern on Thursday. And one other note, you can check out the show notes or stick around for the end of the episode. We will have all you need to know on next week's Sources and Methods live stream, which you can watch on YouTube. Let's start, though, with the Pentagon and this oil deal. Last week, President Trump announced what he called the biggest oil deal in U.S. history. This would give the U.S. rights to Venezuelan oil. And it would set up the U.S. military to potentially take a stake in an oil company. John, President Trump said early on after that strike on Maduro, the U.S. was going to take over the oil. And it seems like he meant it. Speaker 1 (2:23) Yeah, I mean, he really he really did mean it. And under this agreement, we're talking about that Trump announced last Friday the U.S. government is going to partner with Venezuela's second largest private oil company. And the White House is saying this deal is going to give the U.S. majority control of more than 65 billion barrels of Venezuelan oil. And that would vastly up U.S. reserves. But it really is highly unusual. And for one thing, the head of the Venezuelan oil company is going to be partners, has been investigated for money laundering in Switzerland. For another thing. You know, the U.S. government doesn't typically get directly involved in oil production. They haven't done so since World War II. And this is being carried out by the Pentagon through this new office that was formed under the Biden administration called the Office of Strategic Capital. But it's an entity that's supposed to be focused on upgrading U.S. weapons systems and not on pumping oil. Speaker 7 (3:30) I mean, Greg, this has been... Pretty big policy theme of this entire second Trump administration, but just the bare facts of the story, right? The Speaker 2 (3:40) U.S. government. There's a military action to change the regime in another country and then later moves in to take control of its natural resources. It just sounds like the imperialist foreign policy of 100 plus years ago. Speaker 6 (3:56) Yeah, we feel like we've seen this before, whether it's going in for oil fields or other commodities that the U.S. wanted and just dominating politically, really dictating policy. And I would even throw. to John in terms of, you know, are the Venezuelans seeing any benefits since Maduro was ousted? You know, the U.S. already started taking some oil. Have any of those benefits, do they seem to be flowing to Venezuela so far? Speaker 1 (4:25) Well, I mean, the U.S. has taken over. kind of Venezuela's finances, they take in the oil income and send it back to Venezuela. And they want to do that because, you know, there's still this authoritarian regime in place, even though it's now a pro-U.S. government. Money is coming back into Venezuela, but it's not all that much. And, you know, the oil production has only been going up very slowly over this past year since Maduro was ousted. And so Venezuelans are quite... upset that the Delcy Rodriguez government is very unpopular. And so there's a lot of people very angry with this government and with this situation. And the twin earthquakes that Venezuela suffered in June has made, you know, the economic recovery even more difficult. Speaker 2 (5:14) And this is also layered because the regime is still, of course, the party of Hugo Chavez, who came to power in the late 90s. promising to redistribute the spoils of the oil economy and eventually seizing control of privately run oil fields in Venezuela. Now, here we are with that power structure still in place, but the U.S. government stepping in. Speaker 1 (5:36) Yeah, I mean, it's Venezuela over the years has always kind of waxed and waned between privatization and then resource nationalism. And over the past quarter century, it's been more the latter. The Hugo Chavez government nationalized a lot of foreign holdings that caused ExxonMobil and ConocoPhillips to get out. And that's why it's been really jarring for people to see their current president, Delcy Rodriguez, cozying up to Trump and to big oil. I Speaker 2 (6:07) mean, that does get to a broader question I've had, and this is a good moment to check back into it. When you look at the voices like Secretary of State Marco Rubio. who had been pushing for U.S. intervention in Venezuela for years and years. They criticized the Maduro regime. They said it was illegitimate. They wanted to see a return to democracy. They wanted to see a new government. And now here we are with, by and large, everyone but Maduro is still in place. What happened to that initial goal? Speaker 1 (6:36) Yeah, I mean, that's one of the big questions, Scott. And I mean, it must be said the Trump administration is sponsoring talks between the Rodriguez government and the political opposition. But again, you know, Rodriguez is no saint. She was Nicolás Maduro's vice president. She fully supported. every single measure of his repressive regime over the past decade, including what was basically Maduro's steal of the 2024 presidential election. Her government still holds more than 300 political prisoners. Many opposition politicians and journalists remain in exile. And so there's, you know, now there's a lot of concern, though, that these oil deals, you know, in a way might help cement Rodriguez's grip on power. Trump just always raves about her and talks about how fantastic Delcy is, almost like she's in the category of statesmen like Nelson Mandela or Winston Churchill. I mean, the suspicion is that Trump just would much rather deal with a pliable president who's under his thumb rather than a truly independent leader who might take power through free elections and maybe push for stronger terms for Venezuela on oil. Speaker 2 (7:47) All right, we are going to take a break. When we come back, the U.S. military is striking alleged drug boats again. Why