Special Report: Has Zack Polanski peaked?

The News Agents

The episode examines the Green Party's conference in Brighton, highlighting a party experiencing significant growing pains after a surge in popularity under leader Zach Polanski. While the Greens have

Key takeaways

• Zach Polanski's leadership has driven unprecedented Green Party growth, but his personal approval ratings have sharply declined after retweeting criticism of police over the Golders' Green attack.
• The conference is dominated by a motion declaring 'Zionism is racism,' which former leader Caroline Lucas warns could alienate Jewish members and fracture party unity.

Main topics

• Green Party conference dynamics and identity shift
• Zach Polanski leadership approval and polling trends

Notable quotes

"Has this man, this insurgent of British politics, already peaked?"

Conclusion

The episode concludes that while the Greens have successfully set the national

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:00) you Speaker 4 (0:02) This is a global production. Speaker 5 (0:04) Six months ago, after Gorton and Denton, after the local council elections, who would have bet against the Speaker 1 (0:12) Green Party? They were on a roll. But as the Greens gather here in Brighton for their party conference, they are whispering darkly about their leader, Zach Polanski. Has this man, this insurgent of British politics, already peaked? Welcome to the Newsagents. Speaker 1 (0:37) The news Speaker 4 (0:38) agents. Speaker 1 (0:39) It's John, it's Lewis, and we have stepped inside, away from the glorious beach, inside the conference centre in Brighton, and it is very busy, despite the fact that the Green Party actually basically told a lot of its activists to go, not come here, and go to Hoban and St Pancras. In fact, there's a little poster here, or a banner that says, stop reading this, go campaign in Hoban and St Pancras to elect our sixth Green MP, which of course would be Zach Polanski, because he's standing in Keir Starmer's old seat. to try and really reinvigorate his leadership. Speaker 5 (1:06) Yeah, and just across from there, we've got the Palestine Solidarity Campaign next to rewilding Britain. Doing some good business, that's fair to say. And if we just come round here, you've got the Policy Development Fair in this room, whatever the Policy Development Fair is, and you've got Policy Working Group meetings in that room, which is then next to... young Greens, which is just here. Hi there. Trans young Greens next to that. Trans young Greens just next to that. And, you know, this is the kind of general set up of the Green Party. And you've got Muslim Greens over there and global majority Greens next to it. And global majority is the phrase they're saying that should be used for what once were called ethnic minorities in this group, but you should now call... The global majority. Speaker 1 (1:58) And I think the point about that is, it illustrates that this is a party which has been in transition and a party which has been changing its identity. Of course, the Green Party have always had their locus traditionally on green issues, environmental issues, net zero. They were a sort of known, in a way, very often as a slightly sort of more environmentally conscious version of the Lib Dems, that kind of like slightly cuddly politics. That's changed. It has become, under Zapolansky, it has become a much harder edge party. you can see that it has become a coalition of wider left-wing interest groups and interests. And in that sense, of course, it reminds me a lot, and maybe it's just because there were a lot of conferences here in that era, and I attended a lot of them, of the Corbyn-era Labour Party. A lot of those same sorts of people, those sorts of interests, those sorts of political passions. And that has obviously injected a great deal of energy into this party and at various points throughout this year given them a real pole boost, sort of absorbing that part of the Corbynite left. But there is a cost as well. This party has got bigger, but as a result its politics has become more fractious, more disputatious. And this is a conference which is set to be dominated by a series of motions which are classic Corbyn era interests around Gaza, Zionism, Palestine. which is certainly dividing this party and risks on some level tearing it apart. Speaker 5 (3:20) Yeah, I mean, you know, the image of the Green Party as sort of a party of tree-huggers, I think, has gone. I think that is kind of gone, it's the past. This place that was a kind of, I don't know, a safe base for if you wanted to express your disaffection with the other two main parties, you could go to the Green Party. And I think that is absolutely right about the sort of change in tone. I mean, coming in... You've got the leafleteers, which you'll get any party conference and at Labour Party conference It used to be the people of the far left were on the outside and they were the one handing you the leaflets the trot on the outside the trots the militants that kind of you know the Socialist Workers Party they were on the outside and they were trying to force things on you and now You come in and these are the main stands inside the conferences. And the literature, you know, I got kind of, you know, Palestine. Yes, it really is genocide. That was the first thing that was handed to me when I got in. Speaker 1 (4:18) A newspaper called Palestine News. Speaker 5 (4:19) Yeah, progressive foreign policy. And that's all about how, what we should do about militarism. And there isn't really a need to spend that much on defence. So it's a kind of very radical agenda that is way to the left of the Labour Party. as it currently constituents with Andy Burnham as the leader? I Speaker 6 (4:39) think we're in an interesting time and moment. Obviously, Labour have got Andy Burnham leading the charge and there's been an obvious step change in Labour with how much more progressive they've become. And I think that is testament to what the Greens did in May. And I think that does make voters worry about voting Green, but I think Zach has got a really exciting message for the doorstep of Holtbourne St Pancras. And I think there's a chance he can win it. And Speaker 1 (5:00) if he loses, particularly if he loses badly? Do you think he's finished or will he go Speaker 6 (5:04) on? I don't think he's finished. I think this was always going to be a difficult one to win. You know, Canada and Labour are a political machine. They have been there for many years and we have got a good ground game. I think if it even comes to a short loss, that is a great chance for the win. Sorry, great moment for the Greens because it shows we've got our place in British politics. Speaker 7 (5:22) I think it's a big picture. You know, he's talking about... Proportional representation, more devolution. Those are all really good for the Greens. So I think, like, a bit of a fallback now. Does Speaker 5 (5:33) it make Speaker 7 (5:33) you Speaker 1 (5:33) want to vote Labour? The Burnham speech the other day made you want Speaker 5 (5:34) to vote Labour. It made me like him more, definitely, yeah. Speaker 7 (5:38) And Speaker 5 (5:38) do you think you could go to Labour? I mean, what separates you from the Labour Party? Speaker 7 (5:44) I think the... I think the kind of practical ambition of the Greens is a really powerful and useful force. I've voted Labour in the past and voted Green more recently. Speaker 7 (5:57) I wouldn't say there's never... You're struggling to articulate it. It's a difficult one to articulate, right? I think the Greens are... Speaker 1 (6:05) But I bet you'd Speaker 7 (6:05) have Speaker 1 (6:05) found it easier when Keir Starmer was Prime Minister. Speaker 7 (6:08) Yes, absolutely. But I think, as you'll see at this conference this weekend, the economic agenda, the principles of the Greens are further to the left of the Greens. But I obviously wish Andy Burnham not that it matters. Well, yeah. Speaker 5 (6:25) So, okay, let me ask you this. If you were in a seat where Labour had no, you know, Labour was the main challenger, the Greens had no chance, and it was Labour versus reform. Speaker 7 (6:38) Yeah, I would probably vote for Labour in those circumstances. I live in London, so the likelihood is that Greens will be in with a good chance and I'll vote for them. But yeah, I'm a tactical voter sometimes, and a lot of Greens aren't and some are. Speaker 5 (6:54) There's a whole debate over Palestine and Zionism and racism. Do you think that helps the Green Party or it's too divisive for the Green Party? Speaker 7 (7:07) Personally, I think it's a tricky one. Absolutely, foreign policy should be really important for the party. And it's very green. It's good we have these debates. But Speaker 5 (7:19) you sound like you're not comfortable with it. Speaker 7 (7:22) Yeah, I personally don't support the motion, but I'd say a lot of people do, and that's fair enough. Yeah. Speaker 5 (7:30) Yeah, so interesting, wasn't it? Lewis, you were talking a minute ago about... this sort of change of identity of the Green Party. And there you had two guys who were struggling to explain why they were still broadly in the Greens and not in the Labour Party and saying they would vote Labour and felt very uncomfortable about this whole Zionism is racist emotion that the Green Party is going to be debating. Speaker 1 (7:52) Yeah, I mean, just to sort of take the big picture before Zach Polanski speaks today, you know, this is a party which has had an extraordinary year. I remember, John, I think it was about a year ago, maybe just over that, we basically did an episode on newsagents, which was based on a quote, an unnamed source quote from a then Labour cabinet minister in the Starmer government, which said, well, at the very least, it's before Polanski became leader, at least we can thank our lucky stars the Greens are so shit, because otherwise it would be really fucked. Apologies for the bad language, I'm just quoting it, right? Sounds like he's been listening to the newsagent. And that was during the period when Adrian Ramsey was the leader and so on. And there's the joint leadership. Of course, Polanski then comes in. And actually, in fairness to him and the Greens, I think there is no doubt that they are a component, not the only component, but a component of the fall of the Starmer government. The Gorton and Denton by-elections you referenced, devastating for the Labour Party. There was already a fear about Labour being eaten from the right and reform. And suddenly the Starmer government finds itself being consumed. on the left as well. And the Greens overtake the Labour Party during this period in many of the polls. Polanski, you know, has a hell of a run. He lights up social media, much in the same way that Andy Burnham has been doing, similar sort of style. And, you know, they swell their numbers. They had tens of thousands of members. And it becomes a party which seems not just an also-ran in British politics, but a proper player in British politics. They do really well in the May elections. And there's no doubt they dragged the Labour Party in all sorts of ways, as those two lads were saying. to the left. And therein lies the problem. They bring Starmer down. They're almost too successful. They help bring Starmer down and they bring in a leader who is a lot more like Polanski. He's more populist. We saw that in his speech the other day. He's got a common touch. He's a great social media performer. And suddenly, alongside Polanski's own problems, we saw lots of negative stories about him. Suddenly, the Greens are struggling and a lot of those voters have gone back to Labour and it leads this party at a bit of a crossroads. And it's so specific there. You Speaker 5 (9:52) talk about... their success being their failure in bringing Starmer down. That's exactly what's happened. They've brought Starmer down. And as a result, there is now a by-election taking place in Hoban and St Pancras, which at the moment, the Greens are putting an enormous effort into it. But at the moment, it's, you know, the betting markets are saying it's Labour's by a country mile, which could spell the end of Zach Polanski if he has seemed to have done badly, gambled and lost on show, because that will really stall. green momentum and they'll be thinking, hang on, what have we really gained now with Zach Polanski as our Speaker 1 (10:27) leader? You heard it in the ambivalence of the two guys we interviewed. Actually, less able now to articulate what the difference is between them and a Burnham-led Labour Party. Now, one answer to that, and this is potentially a danger for the Greens, right, is that what they'll do is go further to the left. You know, go even further down the kind of hardline left-wing populism route. Obviously, that... could basically consolidate a certain level of support, but it's harder to build it. I mean, their big announcement today, they want a three-year freeze on rent controls or rent increases. Again, be appealing to a lot of people. But the problem that they basically got is, again, a sort of problem of their own success. In the old days, when they were the slightly more tree, to use your description, John, the more tree-huggy sort of side of themselves, they were small, but they were intellectually sort of coherent. within themselves. Now they have these two big wins. That old wing of the party, the sort of party that actually is winning in rural England, in Suffolk and in Herefordshire and those sorts of places. But they've also now got this Corbyn-era style wing to them, which is highly competitive among graduates, younger people in the cities, which is far more left-wing. And you can just see the tension straining around it. And look, we're going to play you a couple of interviews in a minute. Speaker 5 (11:48) about the whole kind of debate that's taking place over Gaza and whether Zionism is racism because that is a motion that is getting a lot of support and you feel there's almost an animating spirit. I mean, we started doing an interview. We were like, you'll hear it. Then we then get surrounded by people who are chipping in because just because we're kind of asking questions that are questioning the basis of the motion and whether it's divisive or not, people are getting really angry and vexed about it. And you've had Caroline Lucas. the former leader of the Green Party, come out and say, this is divisive, this is going to put off an awful lot of Jewish people becoming members of the Green Party as a result. I'm Speaker 1 (12:30) holding the booklet here now, which is Zionism is racism, motion, why it matters, with a picture of Israel and the Palestinian territories on the front. Speaker 1 (12:45) This is causing, this is basically the core celeb of this conference, because what it is basically saying, I mean, the introduction, paragraph one, this motion invites formal acknowledgement that Zionism is racism, basically suggesting that Zionism itself is a fundamentally racist ideology. Now, there'll be lots of people who agree with that, but clearly the reason Caroline Lucas and others, and indeed we're told people around at the very top of the green leadership have sought to try and water it down a bit. is because obviously Zionism is a deeply contested term. And it's one which is obviously an historical one and there are lots of different interpretations of it. But fundamentally, it relates to the creation and establishment of a Jewish homeland. And as we all know, that Jewish homeland is Israel. And obviously one of the implications of that is that even someone who believes in that, but also... believes in the creation of a Palestinian state who wants to see Palestinians have the rights which have long been denied to them is a racist. Yeah, you're describing me. Speaker 5 (13:48) I mean, you know, in a way you're describing, you know, look, I suppose you're describing me as well in the sense that I believe there should be an Israeli homeland. Zionism originally was a kind of, you know, a thing that there should be a state of Israel, a place. after the pogroms and you know what happened in the second world war the you know the kind of wiping out the genocide of you know two-thirds of the jewish population in europe that there should be a homeland sorry there are you know after what happened in the pogroms and in the second world war that there should be a jewish homeland i believe i think nearly every country in the united nations recognizes the state of israel it's just the state of israel recognized by law now look what the Netanyahu government has done, what some of the manifestations of it have been absolutely hideous. But if I'm a Zionist because I support a state of Israel, am Speaker 1 (14:38) I a racist? Well, also, I mean, well, indeed. And it is a reminder of how far the left has moved on these issues. I mean, Harold Wilson is obviously going back a long time now, but Harold Wilson, former Labour prime minister, once remarked that he was a Zionist before he was a socialist. You know, actually, at that time, the idea that the creation of a Jewish homeland was considered... almost sort of part of what it was to be left-wing. That is clearly not the case before, the case now. But I mean, you know, one of the problems with this motion, which obviously if it passes is going to be asked again, there's two problems. One is obviously that there are British Jews who go to Zionist synagogues and there have been people who are worried that they may be subject to a disciplinary procedure within the Green Party itself if that comes to life. And also a part of the motion prescribes a single Palestinian state. without resolving how any consent or security would work. It explicitly promises equal rights for everyone. So describing it as a proposal to expel Jews would represent it. But clearly, you know, if your entire basis of your homeland, if you're living in Tel Aviv and you've been there for four or five generations and so on, if that were to be taken away, then clearly there are legitimate questions about how that would resolve itself in practice. Now, of course, if this motion passes, it's not as if any of that would happen. But at the same time, it reanimates a lot of those old questions. But it is not surprising in a way, John, that this has become so central because when we go back to the success of the Green Party, let's be honest, a big part of the success of the Green Party has actually been the disgust, which I understand, by the way, the disgust that has flowed from the events which have taken place since October the 7th, itself heinous and disgusting, but in terms of the Israeli government's policy towards what has happened in... the Palestinian territories and in Gaza in particular, but also discussed in how Starmer reacted to it. And so many people who