Andrea Modica's answer to the question every photographer asks eventually: what's the point? E134

The MOOD Podcast

In this episode of The MOOD Podcast, host Matt interviews acclaimed photographer Andrea Modica about her lifelong dedication to large-format

Key takeaways

Andrea Modica emphasizes that a great photograph requires complexity, often achieved by pairing beautiful elements like platinum prints with disturbing subjects.
The use of an 8x10 camera facilitates a slower, more collaborative, and intimate relationship between the photographer and the subject.

Main topics

Large format photography
The philosophy of 'making' vs 'taking' photos

Notable quotes

The real prize for me is this transformation that happens...

Conclusion

A profound exploration of how technical discipline and an acceptance o

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:10) Andrea Modica, what an honor to have you on the show. Thank you so much for joining me today. Speaker 1 (0:16) Thank you for having me, Matt. I'm thrilled to be here speaking to you. Speaker 2 (0:21) We find you in Philadelphia after having so many years behind the camera and we don't have enough time to go through all of your projects and all of your books. And I have a couple with me on the table here for listeners who are not able to see anything, but we're going to touch upon those books. Before we do, just give me a very brief introduction. of your introduction to photography and kind of what you were, when you first started making photos and what was it about the photos that really captured your attention? Speaker 1 (0:58) Well, I was a painting major in college, and then I thought I was a sculpture major. I just liked making things, and I liked working with equipment and stuff. So I took a photography class thinking, of course, it was going to be easy, and very quickly went to a large format camera and was taken with a couple things. First and foremost, the... technical aspects of it, all of the sane things like loading film holders and, you know, the rules about processing film. Like if you, in those days, certainly if you didn't have it, it was garbage. If you didn't expose it, process it properly, it was garbage. So I loved working with those rules and seeing how far I can push those rules. And that was very different from my experience with painting, especially in the early 80s, where, you know, really anything, anything went. So it was kind of, you know, a land with no law. But photography kept me grounded and especially with the big camera. And then, of course, I wanted to break all those laws. I wanted to figure out ways to circumvent those or to make them mine. And then the other thing that happened was that very early on with the big camera, I took a photograph of my best friend, who's still my best friend. And she presented a word we didn't use back then in a very feminine manner. But she looked very masculine in the picture. And it was a transformation that underlined for me how much power. We have, as photographers, to actually present something that looks truthful, but is really a marriage, at best, for me, of myself and the world. So there's a whole new truth that happens in between, with all of the things that look so true, like hair and skin. But there's this whole other piece of it, which is that, like great fiction, It's possible on the rare occasions you get it right or you just, I don't even know how. I don't even know how to make a good picture. But on the occasions that it works, that it transcends anything that you assume about the subject and that you actually or I actually learn something about the world. And that is the prize. Making a quote unquote good picture is certainly a... high, but the real prize for me is this transformation that happens and the experience spending time with a big camera, with a person, and having an intimacy that is not possible, not for me. It's a very different kind of intimacy without the camera. So I've touched upon a lot of things there, Matt. Speaker 2 (4:14) Where should we go? Well, we're going to talk about big camera in a little bit, because I think that's an important topic to unpack. You talked about a good picture, quote unquote, and this phrase kind of transcending the subject, which I like the way you talked about. And you teach, of course. So first of all, do you believe there is such a thing as a good and bad photo? And if so, would you put that definition of a good picture? photograph or good body of work or good photographer this label we have as this ability to transcend whatever you you are if whatever's in front of your camera oh Speaker 1 (4:55) such a great question i of course it's such a silly word a good picture not a good picture um it's it is very much i think up to the photographer uh but for me uh Before I put something in the world, and sometimes I need help with this, I try to see it as objectively as possible and to try to name what it's about and to point to things that are physically in the image that can support the content. So it's not any longer something that's affiliated with the... the process of making the picture, but now it's a new object. So for me, it needs to have a certain amount of complexity so that it can, again, if I'm going to put in the world, reach a variety of people, right? And a larger audience. And that would be a stronger picture for me. So it's not, you know, a one sentence. But it might be a paragraph or if it's really working, a poem. And it's not necessarily instructing the viewer about what it's about. But there have to be enough hooks to bring the viewer in to want to decide what it's about. Or even if... What it's about is unclear. They want to keep looking. So, you know, again, a good photograph has different functions. Like it could be good for me if it transforms something from reality or something that I know or think I know into something that surprises me. But that surprise, before I put it in the world, has to be apparent in ways that, you know, one could point to. So an example would be. We talked a little bit before we started recording about the print. So I print in platinum, and platinum can produce a very beautiful print, just sumptuous, beautiful print. And that doesn't mean that's better or worse than a print that's not beautiful. It's just a formal element that interests me. And when something... very beautiful is paired with something that might be on some level a little disturbing, then now you've got two things going on at once. And they're actually in conflict with each other. And that kind of complexity, I believe, can bring in a greater audience. So they might be expecting it to be one thing and then it turns into something else. So it might keep somebody looking at the picture, you know, a little bit longer or coming back to it. So really strong photograph will change with time, right? So you might come back to it a week later, a year later. And the meaning of it is something different. Speaker 2 (8:13) Uh, yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. And that's why I have a couple of your books with me because they do exactly that for me. I keep coming back to them and Italian story being relatively new. I'm still, you know, even, even knowing that I've been going, coming to speak to you for the last few months, like just coming back, coming back, coming back, seeing different things, opening up questions, opening up some ambiguity is probably the wrong word, but opening up something that's, um, That's the interpretation of which evolves over time and over the way you might evolve as a viewer, but also as the photographer. So I think that's where the real beauty in your work, as well as many other good photographers' work, really stands out. Did this evolve? I don't want to call it philosophy, but did this kind of insight evolve with you over time? Or is this something that you, because if we look at your early work, it's slightly different. I mean, of course it is over so many years as all of ours is, but how did that kind of shape over your formative years and later on where you kind of understand this concept of what a good photograph might be conceptualized as? Speaker 1 (9:28) I can't say for sure when I started thinking this way, but if I may, there's something that goes, no pun intended, hand in hand with that, which is an awareness that my photographs, like many pictures that don't hold my attention, including many, many of my own. can be heavy-handed. This is, of course, maybe a great danger with a big camera. So sometimes I'll look at a picture and all I see is how I made it, and I cringe because that's one note. It will never go beyond that. So very early on, I was aware that I wanted to make photographs where my hand was invisible. And I didn't want the viewer to think about the fact that a picture was being made. Because, of course, that's not enough. But that's one thing. So I quite remember that turning point. But I can't remember when exactly I started thinking this way or that way. I've been shooting since, to be honest with myself, 1980. Speaker 1 (10:52) Yeah. I mean, with the 8x10, it's a lot of years. Speaker 2 (10:57) So why the 8x10? Because you started shooting 8x10 straight out of Yale, right? Or in Yale? Speaker 1 (11:04) Oh, no, no. In undergraduate at SUNY Purchase. Oh, okay. Speaker 2 (11:07) Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Speaker 1 (11:09) So I went to state school and we were very lucky to have had two 8x10 field cameras. Not a very big person. So, it was important that I was introduced to a field camera early on, a Toyo, as opposed to a monorail, right? Something that I could really put in a backpack and travel with, walk around. I never had a car until much, I didn't have a license until much, much later. So, what was your question, Matt? Speaker 2 (11:43) I was going to say why the 8x10, what was... Speaker 1 (11:48) Because I was, you know, at school and I wanted to try everything. So, yes, I was lucky enough to be at a school that had these cameras where you could, you know, sign them out for a week and try them. And also, by the way, at SUNY Purchase, one of the professors was Jed Devine, who was a premier printer. I mean, an amazing platinum printer. And he's the person who said to me, if you're interested in this, there's really one person to study with, and it's Richard Benson. So I would have gone anywhere to study with Richard Benson. He happened to have been teaching at Yale. So I ended up in grad school at Yale. But I started with that big camera because I... I just, I didn't feel like, and of course I know better now, but I didn't feel like with the small camera I was doing enough. You know, I wanted to really punch my hands, and I still do, into the clay of making a picture. I wanted to, you know, the holders, all of those things that I'm talking about, I loved, I still do. I just unpacked. boxes of film from B &H. I just love putting them on their shelf, you know, and getting ready to load my film holders. It's such a silly thing, but it's so grounding in, of course, a world of complete unknowns, right? We don't know if we're going to, you know, get anything we like when we go out and shoot, but we do know how to load a film holder. So I like all of the physicality of that camera. And of course, as I said, I was a sculpture major shortly before that, and I was welding metal, and I loved that. Thank goodness I didn't continue. It's hard enough to store 40-plus, God, how many, 50 years of prints. I can't imagine 50 years of sculpture. Speaker 1 (13:55) Does that make sense, that answer? Speaker 2 (13:57) I might resonate with it slightly differently. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, if I'm kind of interpreting this right. There's a real freedom as well as control. There's paradox of like, for me anyway, I love every step of the making. The photographers I admire so much, one of them being you, of course, is that you use this phrase making a picture rather than taking a photo, right? There's a huge difference in the mindset. If you have this desire to create from scratch as much, you know, bar making the film yourself, like if you get that film and you see it all the way through, in your case, all the way through to doing your own prints, then there's this, A, you have control every step, but also it's extremely liberating to be able to just have a full creative process on making a picture. I don't know if that kind of... agrees with the joy that you get from it. Speaker 1 (14:56) Because we have control, but we also have responsibility every step of the way. So I, for that reason, I don't, unless somebody's, you know, hiring me to travel, to work, I don't ever hire assistants. I do everything by hand. I process my film with a green light filter. So I inspect it. You know, nobody's going to be able to inspect my film. and make a decision the way I will. You know, I love, you know, waiting for it to dry. This is going to sound so kooky. But, you know, and then making the proofs, which I now do digitally, by the