Stanford Psychologist: 7 Small Things You Can Do Right Now to Enjoy Life More

The Mel Robbins Podcast

In this empowering episode of The Mel Robbins Podcast, host Mel Robbins sits down with Dr. Kelly McGonigal, Stanford psychologist and expert on stress,

Key takeaways

• Joy is not dependent on perfect conditions—it's accessible even during hardship.
• The body releases 'hope molecules' through movement, making simple physical activity a powerful tool for emotional well-being.

Main topics

• The science of joy
• Resilience through small actions

Notable quotes

"You don't have to wait for your life to get easier to start enjoying it."

"Joy is when something goes right or you notice something wonderful… your heart lifts. You feel lighter. You feel like you can breathe."

Conclusion

Dr. McGonigal's message is clear: joy isn't reserved for perfect days—it's available

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Speaker 2 (0:08) I am so excited about the conversation today because we're going to talk about how you can feel like yourself again. Get your spark back and bring more joy into your life, even if things are really hard right now. And we're going to do it with this extraordinary woman. Her name is Dr. Kelly McGonigal. I have been trying to get her on the podcast for years. She's one of the world's leading experts in stress, resilience, joy. She's been at Stanford University as a psychologist and lecturer for over 20 years. And what she's going to teach you today, it is simple. It's backed by science. She has such an important message to share with you. You can enjoy your life right now. For real. She wants you to know that a good life isn't perfect. And joy is how you navigate those moments in between periods that are challenging and periods that are amazing. Joy is how you have a day that has a sunrise and a funeral. It's how you have a breakdown and a belly laugh. You can go to the hospital and also enjoy the beach. You don't have to overhaul your life. You're going to begin exactly where you are in the mess. And you're going to learn how to tap into the simple joys to help you get through your life and start enjoying it now. And that's going to feel amazing. Speaker 2 (1:29) What if getting more protein and fiber into your daily diet was as easy as three seconds? Well, that's exactly why I co-founded Pure Genius Protein. It's a high-quality protein shot that has 20 grams of protein, and for the first time ever, we got a new product. It also has five grams of fiber in it, which is huge. Protein and fiber in one delicious shot? That's important because 95 % of Americans don't get the recommended daily amount of fiber that we're supposed to have. And I used to be one of them until Pure Genius Protein. Use code MEL10 at puregeniusprotein.com for 10 % off your first order. 20 grams of protein, 5 grams of fiber for under $3 a shot. Now that's genius. Speaker 2 (2:17) Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I'm so excited that you're here today. It's an honor to be together and to spend this time with you. And if you're new or somebody shared this with you, I just want to personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. Today, you and I are learning how to feel like yourself again, the science of getting your spark back with the extraordinary Dr. Kelly McGonigal. Dr. McGonigal is a world-renowned health psychologist and award-winning lecturer at Stanford University, where she earned her PhD and has been working for over 20 years. She co-created Stanford's Compassion Cultivation Training through the Stanford Center for Compassion and Altruism, and her TED Talk about stress is one of the most popular TED Talks of all time. She's the best-selling author of three books, and today she's going to help you and me get our spark back. Dr. Kelly McGonigal, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Thank you. It's great to be here. I'd love for you to start by just setting the record straight about what we're going to talk about and how the person who's here with us is going to feel when they're done and how their life might change. Because you hear the word joy and you think, oh my gosh, is this a to-do list for being happy? But what are we going to talk about based on your research about how to feel like yourself again and to use this science of joy to do that? Speaker 1 (3:35) My core hope is that When you wake up in the morning, you want to be alive. You're happy to be alive. You feel like you have things to look forward to. You know that what you do matters, that who you are matters, that your existence in the world is a good thing, and that no matter what challenges you're facing, that you can handle them. And even in those challenges, it's possible to laugh. It's possible to feel close to others. It's possible to have things to look forward to. It's possible to do things every day that make life better for yourself or that make the world better. Psychologists sometimes use this term existential courage. And that's what I really hope comes out of this conversation is that you feel more courageous to create a life of meaning. And a stronger capacity to appreciate not just what's good in your life, but also what's good in you and what's good in others and what's good in the world. Speaker 2 (4:39) My Speaker 1 (4:40) favorite thing that you just said was Speaker 2 (4:43) this ability to appreciate not just what's good in your life, but what's good in you. Speaker 1 (4:50) Yeah. Can you expand on that? I think like everything that I do, I'm trying to be an antidote. to despair. And there's a particular type of despair that people are comfortable talking about, which is looking out at the world and feeling like the world is falling apart. There's so much wrong with the state of the world and other people are so disappointing. And I think people have a harder time admitting or recognizing sometimes we wonder what's good about us, whether what we do makes a difference, if our existence has a reason. if other people care or even know that we're here. And I think that when we are better able to recognize and trust the better parts of ourselves or even just the parts about ourselves that bring us joy, and when we're comfortable sharing that with the world, it's a really, it's a brave act and it's a transformative act. I had Speaker 2 (5:45) this moment, Oprah calls it a light bulb aha moment when you were talking, because I've never heard anybody so simply and profoundly explain that there are two types of despair and discouragement that you experience in life. I love that you have just aimed our focus at something that's hard to talk about, which is the despair quietly and the discouragement that we feel often alone as we wonder, as we lie awake at night. And I suppose that where we're going is, and I know where we're going because I've read your next blockbuster bestseller, and I love your research and your work, is that you're going to shine a light on the interior life that you have. Dr. McGonigal, what is the definition of joy? Speaker 1 (6:36) Let me start by something that is very easy for most people to understand. I'm going to give you the opposite of joy first. Okay. I've learned through experience to walk my way into joy. You know the feeling when you get bad news or something goes wrong or someone says something that hurts you and immediately it's like a punch to the stomach. Your heart sinks. You feel heavier. You feel more pessimistic. You just immediately feel worse about yourself or worse about life. And it often happens in a flash. But it can linger. It has this residue. So joy is the opposite of that. It's when something goes right or you notice something wonderful or something good happens or someone says something nice and you immediately, your heart lifts. You feel lighter. Your gut is telling you this is a moment that matters. You feel like you can breathe. And no matter how small, small or big the moment is, you have a more positive outlook. You feel better about yourself and better about life. That's joy. And I've asked thousands of people to tell me like what's something that brought you joy in the last 24 hours. And also people have published research from all over the world. It's so consistent what brings people joy. And I think sometimes knowing what the categories are also helps people understand what I'm talking about. Yeah. What are the categories? Number one is feeling connected or close to someone. And one of the easiest examples of that is people will tell me about a moment when they laughed with someone. It's just in that moment, it's a biological reality. You are connected. You feel close to someone. The number two is when you do something that makes you feel good about yourself and who you are. It could be that you made progress on a goal. And you got good news. Or it could be that you did something that you've been putting off. Or it could be you did something that's aligned with your values. It could be you helped someone. Or someone tells you that you did something that made things better. And then we have the third category is noticing something wonderful or beautiful in the world. It's off in nature. It's amazing how many joy reports I get from people. I heard a bird sing. I just be like, why? Why are there so many birds in these joy reports? But people in that moment feel. connected to the good in life itself. And then the next biggest category is moments where you are enjoying something that you love, whether it's an activity or that thing that you love beyond reason, or you're just in the moment doing something you enjoy and you're able to feel in that moment or be in that moment. Can you Speaker 2 (9:07) put this into context for why this truly does matter? And it's critical for Speaker 1 (9:12) your life and your... meaning in your life. Yeah. I mean, people sometimes hear the word joy and they think that what we're talking about is that moment when everything in your life is perfect, no problems, no pain, nothing you're worried about. And we think that joy is the emotional reward you get when everything aligns in your life and in the world. And if that isn't true, it's irresponsible or it's foolish or it's naive or it's actually impossible to feel anything that we would call joy. The place that I often think about to start with joy is in that internal, close-to-home place that even when the world is in chaos, your full humanity is still available to you. And I know this is true because when I teach classes about joy, I often have people joining from war zones who have lost loved ones in war and are being bombed. in the middle and they're taking an online class. And what they tell, it's so funny because I will often have some students write me and be like, isn't it irresponsible or actually like impossible to be talking about joy right now when there's a war going on? And then someone living in that war will send a message that I share with the class that says, this is why we need joy, because life is so uncontrollable and so many terrible things are happening. And they're experiencing this thing that is true for all of us, that even in that context, there's a part of you who can still find things to laugh about. There's a part of you who wants to connect with others and is absolutely capable of it. There is a part of you who is capable of noticing beauty in the world and putting beauty in the world that you don't need to wait for external circumstances to align to experience those parts of yourself. Speaker 2 (10:55) Wait a minute. I just saw something, and I want to give this back to you to see if I'm tracking. So if you have moments in life where there's external forces that cause you to feel despair, and that then makes you feel despair internally, when it comes to the positive experiences of joy, of love, of beauty, Those things are external in your life, whether it's weddings or puppies or sunsets or dancing, you know, at a concert with your friends to your favorite band. And of course, that impacts how you feel internally. I just understood why. Speaker 2 (11:39) The science of joy matters so much because if the signaling from the world is overwhelmingly negative, you're going to feel internally so heavy and negative. And in those moments, tapping into signals that they're still good, there's still happiness, that there's still a reason to move forward, that there's still something you can do, that is what balances you out. when life gets very heavy, when the world is very heavy. This isn't like jazz hands and happiness and, you know, something on the surface. This is deep within us. Is that what you're Speaker 1 (12:17) saying? The core function of joy is to make you want to be alive. Joy would not exist if life were not hard. We wouldn't need it, actually. Joy is a particular type of uplift that pulls you up from when you're feeling stuck or sad or hopeless. And that is why you have the capacity to be uplifted by things that are good. It's why you have the capacity in a moment when you're laughing with someone else and you're... brains start to synchronize and you feel connected to someone, your body and brain are wired to have that moment of closeness because the reality is that it's hard to be human. Speaker 2 (12:56) And you're here to remind us that we have wiring in our bodies, brains, and resources in us to tap into this fundamental need. You said the core function of joy is Speaker 1 (13:09) to Speaker 2 (13:09) make you want to live, to push Speaker 1 (13:11) through, to keep going, to... like evolve and grow. And that's a beautiful way to think about this. It's Speaker 2 (13:19) a Speaker 1 (13:19) survival instinct. Speaker 2 (13:20) I've never heard anybody say that, but it makes sense because Speaker 1 (13:24) like if there's too much negative input, of course you're going to give up. So I often collect these joy reports where I just ask people what's something recent that brought you joy. And then I collect some of the ones that I think would surprise people. And some of the ones that really stood out to me that I received recently, one was taking care of a spouse who was going through chemotherapy and it was messy and gross. And she said, I think I could do this for the rest of my life because I just, I feel so much love and like what I'm doing matters. And then another was a student who talked about being in a bomb shelter and talking with neighbors and saying that he had never felt so close. to other human beings as he had in that moment, and that it was one of the most joyful experiences of his life. Nobody wants that experience. Nobody would describe that as a happy moment or a positive moment. But things we have this capacity, and actually all of those were examples of the most common source of joy, which is to feel close or connected to others, and also to feel like who you are matters. Speaker 2 (14:31) Those Speaker 1 (14:31) are beautiful Speaker 2 (14:32) examples, and it... also makes your definition of joy, which is the core function is to make you want to live. Speaker 1 (14:42) really powerful. I Speaker 2 (14:44) want to read to you some of the things that listeners in the 194 countries that watch and listen to this show wrote in about. And maybe as you're watching right now, or you're taking Dr. McGonigal and I on a walk or in the car, or you have us with you as you're busy working, maybe you feel some of these things. Maybe people in your life feel these things. I don't feel like myself. Nothing excites me. I feel flat. Speaker 1 (15:11) I Speaker 2 (15:12) am always waiting for something bad to happen. I'm tired of feeling exhausted all the time. Speaker 1 (15:22) When Speaker 2 (15:23) you hear that, What do you hear? Speaker 1 (15:28) I hear something that's very easy to relate to. It's hard to be human. And the first thing I want to say is it makes a lot of sense to feel that way as a response to life. And also, it's not a fixed permanent state. Your brain is hardwired to find meaning or make meaning. Your nervous system is primed to connect with people. And even at the level of your muscles. Your muscles can manufacture and secrete something called hope molecules that when you just literally engage with life using your body that travel through your bloodstream to your brain and act like an antidepressant. There are so many resources we have, you know, and we have the will to connect, the will to find meaning, the will to celebrate, the will to experience pleasure even in dark moments. And these are parts of yourself that you can learn to harness. Speaker 2 (16:23) Now, is the research that you're about to share with us, is that the pathway to making the hard moments day-to-day easier? The Speaker 1 (16:30) research that I focus on is the resources you already have because you're a human being. And part of that's going to be your body. Part of it's going to be your brain. Part of it is your attention, which is a resource that we can use and train. Part of it's going to be instincts that we can harness. Having agency is the opposite of feeling like there's nothing you can do to change a situation to make things better, to get closer to what you want, to help people you care about, sense that there's nothing I can do, I don't see any way forward or out. And I think the most beautiful thing about human nature is that some part of us wants to survive, and to survive, we need things like meaning and hope and connection. And so we do have all of these resources. So the good news is, Speaker 2 (17:19) Dr. McGonigal, as I was listening to you, there were seven things that you have right in front of you that you have the ability, and you're going to teach us how, to use as free resources to take control of where you are and to start feeling more like yourself and better. And to help the people in your life feel that way, too. Amazing. You said the body, the brain, your attention, instinct, emotions, choices, relationships. That's seven things, and I think that's such a hopeful and amazing place to begin. So the first resource that we have is our body. Speaker 1 (17:53) Yeah. Speaker 2 (17:54) Two ways I Speaker 1 (17:55) think about the body. I mean, one is you can literally place your hands on your body. You're breathing already. You can feel that. I put my hands on my heart. So even if you have a steering wheel in one hand, you can put the other hand on your heart. Yeah, I feel I'm breathing. You're already breathing. That's your connection to life. Your body is working so hard to support you. Like that could be a very simple way of just connecting to this idea that your body is a resource and you are already here and you have that ability to engage with life. Speaker 2 (18:28) So much of your work is around the research related to stress. And you have one of the most popular TED Talks of all time on the science of stress. think that we all completely misunderstand stress. So Dr. McGonigal, what do people misunderstand about stress? Speaker 1 (18:45) The Speaker 2 (18:46) number one thing people Speaker 1 (18:47) misunderstand about stress is when they feel stressed, they think it is their brain and their body betraying them. And that the most important thing they can do in that moment is to try to feel less stressed. The reality is stress, what you experience as stress, Is your brain and your body trying to help you in a moment that matters? And every symptom of stress we don't like, is your body and brain trying to do something that is useful? So feeling your heart racing, or sometimes we feel like our blood pressure rising, that is the sign that two things. Your body is trying to give you energy. That's literally, that's all that is. Your heart is possibly pounding faster or it's contracting out more blood with every pump so that you have the energy you need to deal with whatever matters to you. But also what's really fascinating is in moments of heightened stress, your brain actually like prioritizes sensory information from your heart. It can actually sense your heart more. So even if your heart wasn't pounding faster, you might feel your heart more clearly. And that's a sign that your brain is actually trying to connect you to your heart Speaker 2 (19:59) to Speaker 1 (20:00) almost like metaphorically, like to help you think about what you care about, to think about who and what matters most. So, you know, what I would say