Before It Had a Name: A Teacher of 30 Years on the Load, the Village, and What Changed for Boys

The ManFlu | Exploring Gender Dynamics, Partnerships & Raising Boys Who Care

Host Lucy McAfee interviews her mother, Eileen Goeke, a retired teacher of 30 years, to compare motherhood and parenting across two generati

Key takeaways

Eileen Goemente experienced significant instability, moving 10 houses in 10 years while raising four children.
The 'village' for previous generations was often built through shared physical spaces like churches, parks, and neighbors with open windows.

Main topics

Generational Motherhood
The Mental Load

Notable quotes

If I lose this glove, I'm quitting.

Conclusion

The episode offers a reflective takeaway on finding simplicity and int

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Welcome to the man flu, where the flu is just the metaphor. We're not here to hand out tissues. We're here to challenge the cultural norms that keep relationships off balance. I'm Lucy McAfee. I've spent years studying how gender dynamics play out at home. And as a wife and boy mom, I'm living them too. Each week we dig into the old scripts and unspoken rules that often go unquestioned, but still end up running the show. in our marriages, and in how we are raising our kids. You'll hear perspectives from researchers, thinkers, and parents, and leave with one small shift to try with your family. Hi, everyone. This is Lucy. Welcome back to the Man Flu Podcast. This week, I have a very special guest on the show, my mom, Eileen. She and my dad had four kids in six years, lived in 10 houses in 10 years. And when the youngest of us went into kindergarten, she went back to her teaching career. She stayed in the classroom for nearly 30 years, most of it teaching high schoolers. I wanted her on the show for both of those reasons. As my mom, she carried the load we talk about here before most of us knew there was a name for it. There's a story in this episode about a lost glove on a winter morning that came back to me recently and that I finally understand now that I'm the one rushing out the door. Spoiler alert, it was never about the glove. And as a teacher, she watched the bigger pattern play out. Generations of boys going from a clear next step in front of them to not knowing where they fit. and parents changing right along with them. We get into building a village from scratch, the conversation she and my dad never had when she went back to work, why the doorbell still makes us apologize for the house, how a life full of choices is weighing our kids down, and the one thing she used to do on the freshman floor that got teenage boys to talk. Hi, Mom. Welcome to the Man Flu Podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm really happy you're here. When I thought about having you on the show, it just felt like a perfect fit because not only have I learned so much about motherhood from watching you and all of our chats since I've become a mother myself, but also because you are not only a mother and grandmother, but a teacher for 30 years, a happily retired one now, but was a teacher for 30 years. And so you have a unique perspective of not just your own family, but helping so many children learn and being engaged with other families across different ages and generations. So we'll get to all that, your teaching career and the things you've learned. But I want to first give the listeners a little background about your motherhood story. So you and dad had four kids in six years, two boys, two girls. Speaker 1 (3:09) And every one of us was born in a different state, moved around quite a bit in dad's early career. So when you think back on those years, and I know you've joked that you've blacked it all out, but if you can pull into that memory bank, what stands out most for you when you think of that time? Speaker 2 (3:34) I have fond memories of that time. I don't particularly think, oh, it was so much work or we had all these kids in a row. When I'm places now and I see people with kids like that, six, four, three, two, one, I think, are you crazy? But I don't. I think back on those times as good times, but I was also a stay-at-home mom. So that made a difference with taking care of kids and taking care of the household. But we had moved, and at one time we counted 10 houses in 10 years. But that was because we rented. When we'd move, we'd rent first, and then we would buy a house. And your dad had to work. or he worked at different plants as a HR person. So he would get a different plant, a bigger plant all the time. And you took that next opportunity. And so that's what you did. I never questioned or said, no, we're not going to move there. And I was kind of taking care of the home and it was his job. So we moved. I also think of people that I met along the way. We still keep in touch with lots of folks from each of those places. We still keep in touch with people. And I guess when you talk about the village, that was the village. And of course, it was hectic having kids that close in age, but there were positive things, too. I'm trying to think Speaker 1 (5:06) of those. Can't recall any at this moment. But I know there were some. Speaker 1 (5:13) Let's go back to the village for a second, because I obviously made a pretty big move across the country when I had one. And so I have some experience with starting over a little bit and a new place and trying to figure out that friend group and meet meet moms and meet other families. But you did it so many times. What was that like? How did you start over and build? Speaker 2 (5:40) I Speaker 1 (5:41) think. Speaker 2 (5:42) The communities that we moved into, first of all, were small towns. They were all small towns, like Wagner, Oklahoma. And sometimes people say Wagner, Oklahoma. So they were small communities. And small communities can be more welcoming. We went to church. And at church, you met people who had kids your kids' age. And my kids weren't in school yet, but you met these people. And one of them had a swimming pool, so we'd go to the swimming pool. lived by a park, so we would go to the park. You spent time together. Macomb was the same thing. My good friends were neighborhood friends, our friends I met at church. And except for Toledo, probably, the people that we met were also transplants. And this was a time before our generation, before your dad and I, nobody left St. Louis. We were the first cousins on either side. to move away from St. Louis. You just didn't do that. And so we kind of moved to a place and all of a sudden somebody, oh, you're new, whatever. And they'd say, yeah, I'm from St. Louis. Oh, and Susan Naffet Singer, my friend from Speaker 1 (6:52) Macomb, she was from Speaker 2 (6:54) St. Louis. So those people became your family because you didn't have family there. Speaker 1 (7:02) And that's an interesting point because I read a lot when we talk about this village problem is that we don't have enough. Third spaces, I believe they call them. So like the people don't go to church like they used to. And then stay at home moms, there's still plenty of those, but trying to find those right communities where you can build that and you have the families that have kids around your age, et cetera, does feel like something we've lost a little bit. Speaker 2 (7:38) If you have neighbors around you. that have kids also that just go outside and play, you meet those parents because the kids gravitate out there. And I remember my mom saying in her time, they didn't have monitors for babies and everybody had babies and they'd be outside watching the kids and talking with the windows open. And if somebody would hear a baby, they'd say, oh, your baby, I think your baby's crying. Speaker 1 (8:07) Let's move forward. So moved around. had the four kids in the different spots and then eventually landed. And. Speaker 1 (8:18) Patrick, my youngest brother, went to school for kindergarten. So then you started teaching again. And when you did that, did you and dad have any conversations about, hey, I'm going to now be working. Yes, the kids are in school, but this is going to be a lot more responsibility as I do this work outside the home. Speaker 1 (8:48) No, Speaker 2 (8:48) we did not. We did not. I do not remember having that conversation. I remember just. I had substitute taught up at St. Paul for a while, and then I was offered a job. And it was in science, teaching science, which I do not like. But I was excited to get back to teaching because I loved it and it was my career. My kids were all at that school. And your dad's work was in the town. And so we just gravitated to where I was going to. Just go back to work. And you know, your father making some more money was a good idea to put away for whatever or to use for the family. So we just, when I think about it, I don't remember asking him about the decision. I mean, it was just what was going to happen next. And so we did that. And there was never a discussion. I think I just kept doing what I was doing. And I also, I know that your dad is an observant about tons of things, but did help, did help. And it was a smaller community with, we didn't have all the activities and all the pressures and all the choices and decisions that you guys have. I just remember. I cooked at night, but I don't remember what I cooked, but obviously you guys ate. And I remember specifically being at school, like on Tuesday, it was Tuesday, and I'd be working with the kids or whatever. All of a sudden, I'd just get this smile on my face and I'd think, oh, it's penny a pound night. So I didn't have to worry about. Cooking. We went to Ponderosa. Speaker 1 (10:46) You have to explain what that. Oh, yeah. Pony a pound at Bonanza. Speaker 2 (10:51) Bonanza or Ponderosa, right. So you could take your kids and you and your husband bought a regular meal and your kids would eat for a penny a pound and you'd get on the scale and you would weigh so much and that's what you would eat. And so we could afford that. Speaker 1 (11:07) OK, so you look back and feel like. It was manageable. There weren't a lot of questions about who was doing what. Now, I do have one memory and I don't. Oh, I knew that was coming. I feel like you were probably, let's say. seven, eight years into your career of teaching again. And I feel like it was a winter morning, rushing out the door, of course, as usual, getting into the car. And you said, shit, I cannot find my other glove. And I believe they were these leather gloves from Christmas, kind of a nice gift treat. And you were trying to take care of them. And that became this symbol of I'm too overwhelmed because I can't keep track of these gloves. And you said, and you found it. I think it was stuck somewhere in your purse. But you said, that's it. If I lose this glove, I'm quitting. And so this story came up as I was reflecting on our conversation and things I remember and how it connects to what we talk about on this show. But it feels to me like we didn't have that language then that we would say mother, maternal burnout or you're overwhelmed. But if you recall that or recall that time. Speaker 1 (12:50) I think that's what you were experiencing. And do you feel like you talked to your friends about that?