Shami Chakrabarti, human rights lawyer: Healthy democracies need a free media

The Interview

In this BBC interview, host Anna Holligan speaks with human rights lawyer and Council of Europe special rapporteur Shami Chakrabarti about the ongoing investigation into the 2017 assassination of Maltese

Key takeaways

• Shami Chakrabarti was appointed by the Council of Europe to lead an inquiry into Malta's justice system following the high-profile acquittal in Daphne Caruana Galizia's murder case.
• Malta's domestic public inquiry from 2021 identified severe proximity between wealth, power, and politics, yet five years later many recommendations remain unimplemented.

Main topics

• Malta rule of law crisis
• Daphne Caruana Galizia assassination investigation

Notable quotes

"There aren't enough lawyers and judges on the planet if journalists are silent, because abuses of power just don't come to light."

Conclusion

The episode underscores the fragility of democratic safeguards when we

Transcript preview

Speaker 5 (0:00) This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Speaker 2 (0:06) Hello, I'm Chloe Hajimotheo. I'm a reporter at The Observer where I get to dig on all kinds of investigations. Stories like the salt path that's taken me to Wales to uncover a literary scandal. And my latest, We Call Her Emma, which led me to Syria to try and find out why a British woman married a dictator. If you're like me and obsessed with narrative investigations, then I have a suggestion for you. At The Observer, we have a home for the best of our podcast series. It's called Tortoise Investigates, over 20 of our chart-topping stories in one place. So if you want to listen, just search for Tortoise Investigates wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 4 (0:45) Hi, I'm Marie Kooi from Asia Specific, where we bring you Asia-Pacific stories, unpacked by those who know them best. Malaysia has started sending back Burmese migrants to Myanmar despite an ongoing civil war. Malaysia describes the repatriation as voluntary, but critics say the returnees could face violence, persecution or even forced conscription into Myanmar's army. Why has Malaysia's once-welcoming attitude towards Burmese migrants changed? Join us twice a week. Search for Asia Specific wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Speaker 5 (1:17) Hello, I'm Anna Holligan, BBC foreign correspondent, and this is The Interview from the BBC World Service. The best conversations coming out of the BBC. People shaping our world from all over the world. Speaker 1 (1:32) I want to get freedom. I like that freedom. Speaker 4 (1:35) A gender equal world would be a better world for men too. We need this as fire. We need healing. We need trust. Speaker 3 (1:43) These companies don't really, they don't care what governments do. Speaker 1 (1:46) This is a war. The first thing that we want is the war to end. Speaker 5 (1:51) For this interview, I met human rights lawyer and European Council special rapporteur Shami Chakrabarti over a video call. She was in London. I was in The Hague. Born in London in 1969, Chakrabarti first rose to prominence in the early 2000s when she was appointed director of the human rights organisation Liberty. She and her team made headlines around the world. campaigning against what they considered excessive anti-terror legislation introduced in the aftermath of the 9-11 attacks. She stepped down from the position just over a decade later after being appointed a life peer in the British House of Lords. Chakrabarti's expertise has since seen her involved in a number of high-profile inquiries, both in the UK and abroad. Most recently, she's been tasked with leading a Council of Europe investigation into the fallout from the 2017 assassination of Maltese anti-corruption journalist Daphne Caruana Galizia. There was considerable surprise when one of Malta's richest men was found not guilty of involvement in the murder of Caruana Galizia, who died in a car bombing. As a result, there's growing concern about the strengths of the rule of law in Malta, an EU member state, as well as fears that corruption at the highest levels could have wider implications Speaker 3 (3:20) for the European Union. If there is corruption in one part of that block, it's uncontainable, because that is the essence of the EU, that it's a free market. You can't have corruption, for example, in one state without it affecting others. And that then becomes a huge problem for, not just for the market, but for the rule of law and for the safety of people and for human rights and so on. Speaker 5 (3:47) Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with Shami Chakrabarti. Speaker 4 (3:52) You've warned that Malta remains vulnerable Speaker 5 (3:54) to repeated instances of high-level corruption. What are the specific institutional weaknesses that make you say that and what evidence is there that those weaknesses remain today? Speaker 3 (4:05) Well, obviously, I'm at the beginning of my investigation and not the end. But the reason why, for the second time now, the Council of Europe has decided to launch... an inquiry is really because there are concerns that the recommendations of a domestic public inquiry in Malta some years ago, those recommendations have not been implemented. And there are concerns really about the strength and health of the rule of law itself in Malta. And of course, all of this now takes place in the wake of a very high profile acquittal. In a trial that was held in Malta, the trial of someone accused of actually ordering Daphne's assassination. So people lower down the food chain, hit man was already exposed. But this was something that the whole of Malta was looking at. This is a very, very high profile trial in Malta and resulted in an acquittal. And it's not my place to second guess that acquittal that I can see and... you can see that it has sent shockwaves once more through multi-society. Some people found it very, very surprising. And we're waiting at the moment to see whether there will be an application for a retrial and then a retrial. But regardless of that, there are these concerns about the wider process. Not just the criminal justice system, but anti-corruption measures, protections for journalists. proximity between politics and big money, big business, something that's becoming an alarming trend all over the world, it has to be said. Speaker 5 (5:54) Without the mastermind brought to justice, some of the family and others have talked about this wound that can't heal. Why, in your view, is it so important for Malta and for the EU that the person who actually commissioned her killing is brought to justice? Speaker 3 (6:12) Well, whenever there is a murder, it is incredibly important to try and bring those responsible to justice. And in the context of systemic concerns about corruption and the rule of law, it becomes particularly important to prosecute and convict not just cogs in the wheel, not just junior hitmen, but whoever it is that paid and ordered. But as well as that work, which I know is ongoing, and the authorities are examining the case for a retrial at the moment, we still need to look at the broader, deeper context in Malta. Because if you want to prevent further cases of this kind, you've really got to look at how secure the