Olara Otunnu, diplomat: UN cannot be diplomatic ivory tower

The Interview

Olara Otunnu, a Ugandan diplomat and former UN Under-Secretary-General, discusses his candidacy for UN Secretary-General in an interview with James Cocknall. He

Key takeaways

• Olara Otunnu was formally nominated by Uganda as one of seven candidates to succeed Antonio Guterres as UN Secretary-General.
• He previously pioneered UN Security Council resolutions making the protection of children and women in conflict zones a core peace and security agenda item.

Main topics

• UN Secretary-General candidacy
• Protecting children and women in conflict zones

Notable quotes

"I do not want the United Nations of New York, Geneva or Vienna to be an ivory tower, a diplomatic ivory tower."

Conclusion

The episode outlines a pragmatic yet principled vision for modernizing the UN's operational

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Speaker 5 (0:05) A changing world. I started to dream of flying without any fuel. Solar power. Speaker 4 (0:11) Shifting attitudes. When they saw me, they went, whoa, Speaker 5 (0:14) what's going on here? They weren't ready for a black woman on the bridge. New inventions. Sliced bread. The bakers scoffed at it. They were so wrong. Speaker 4 (0:23) Witness history. First-hand accounts of events that have shaped our world. You Speaker 1 (0:28) wanted to go out and actually scream and say, see, it's happened. Speaker 4 (0:31) Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 2 (0:38) Hello, I'm James Cocknell, and this is The Interview from the BBC World Service. The best conversations coming out of the BBC. People shaping our world from all over the world. I want to get freedom. I like that freedom. Speaker 5 (0:52) A gender equal world would be a better world for men too. We need this as fire. We need healing. We need trust. These Speaker 4 (1:00) companies don't really, they don't care what governments do. Speaker 1 (1:03) This is a war. The first thing Speaker 2 (1:04) that we want is the war to end. Speaker 2 (1:09) For this interview, I met Olara Otonu, Ugandan diplomat, lawyer and former foreign minister at the BBC studios here in London. Otonu has spent decades working at the highest levels of international diplomacy. He's also served as a United Nations Under-Secretary-General and Special Representative for Children and Armed Conflict. Now, Uganda has formally nominated him for UN Secretary-General, putting him among seven candidates. in the running to succeed Antonio Guterres. It's a position widely regarded as the world's top diplomatic job. What would his leadership mean for the UN at a time of war, geopolitical tensions and growing demands for international action? He talks about how he intends to bridge the gap between international politics and the needs of people all around the world. It's very important that the United Nations Speaker 3 (2:04) should be a completely inclusive institution. Inclusive in all respects, by the way. Inclusive in respect of gender, in respect of geography, in respect of faith, in respect of... culture, that when you see the UN, you see the world. Speaker 2 (2:30) Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with Olara Otonu. In my little note, Speaker 3 (2:37) division statement about the UN, I speak about from the global to the community and from the community back to the global. As it happens, I've actually lived that experience. The last five years I've been not in New York, not in London, not even in Kampala, the capital of Uganda. I've been deeply embedded. In the womb of the countryside, you reported for two decades about the horrific war in northern Uganda Speaker 2 (3:08) and Speaker 3 (3:09) the encampment Speaker 2 (3:10) and Speaker 3 (3:11) the tragic and radical collapse of that society. Speaker 2 (3:15) The Speaker 3 (3:16) last five years or so, that is where I have been working with community leaders and trying to see what we can do to rebuild, to restore. to resuscitate that broken society. Speaker 2 (3:30) And how do you bring that then to a global stage? How does the local mesh with the international if you become leader of the UN Secretary General? Speaker 3 (3:41) Exactly. Speaker 2 (3:41) I do Speaker 3 (3:42) not want the United Nations of New York, Geneva or Vienna to be an ivory tower, a diplomatic ivory tower. At the global level, the UN enunciates. Discussions are held. Norms are developed. Standards are set. Moral Speaker 2 (4:01) leadership. Speaker 3 (4:02) Aspirations are put forward. Speaker 2 (4:04) Like, Speaker 3 (4:04) you know, the Millennium Development Goals, now the Social Development Goals. But we must now follow that through to see how does that, in fact, percolate and reaches the ground. Speaker 2 (4:18) I Speaker 3 (4:19) want to see the UN not oppose. power and privilege, but the UN of service and impact. That is the UN I want to see. And so I am comfortable in New York, the diplomatic, parliamentary UN, the discussions and debates and decision making. I'm equally comfortable deep in the recesses of Southeast Asia or Latin America or Africa or wherever. And that's what I did. When I was Under Secretary General in charge of the impact of war on children and what I've been doing in northern Uganda these last several years. And that is part of the challenge the UN must be able to face. Speaker 2 (5:07) And one of the pillars of your candidacy rests on that background that you have of advocating for the protection of children in conflict zones around the world. You talk about the need to protect women and children. in conflict areas. How would you do that as UN Secretary General? Speaker 3 (5:23) For Speaker 2 (5:23) a Speaker 3 (5:23) long time, the notion of peace and security on the agenda of the Security Council was really about, fundamentally, the security of states. Speaker 2 (5:35) That Speaker 3 (5:35) is the legacy of World War I and World War II. But when we see the impact of any war on innocent people, especially children and women, the horrors it visits on them. We must address that aspect of the issue of security. And this was my role at the UN as Undersecretary General. I pioneered the work, which said to the