The Art Market Bubble Just Popped — Fine Art Advisor Breck Kling on What's Still Worth Buying

The iDesign Lab Podcast | Where Design, Business, and Culture Shape How We Live and Build

In this episode of The iDesign Lab Podcast, fine art consultant Breck Kling shares insights on navigating the contemporary art market, emphasizing that art's value lies in its ideas

Key takeaways

• Art's true value lies in its ideas and cultural context, not just visual appeal.
• Contemporary art refers to works created in the present era, reflecting current societal moments.

Main topics

• Contemporary art vs. historical art
• The role of ideas in artistic value

Notable quotes

Art that ends up being in our canon of history is about a moment in time. Like it helps us connect with a moment.

Conclusion

Breck Kling emphasizes that meaningful art collecting begins with curiosity and deep

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) This is iDesign Lab, a podcast where creativity and curiosity meet style and design. Curator of interiors, furnishings, and lifestyles. Hosted by Tiffany Woolley, an interior designer and a style enthusiast, along with her serial entrepreneur husband, Scott. iDesign Lab is your ultimate design podcast, where we explore the rich and vibrant world of design and its constant evolution in style and trends. Speaker 2 (0:31) Welcome to the iDesignLab podcast. Today, we are welcoming Breck Kling to our podcast. There's going to be a little noise in the background if anybody hears it. We have some new construction happening on the roof. But today's guest has a front row seat to the world of fine art, collecting, and some of the most important artists of our time. Breck. Kling is a fine art consultant, acquisitions and collection management specialist, and a longtime collector who helps people navigate the fascinating intersection of art, passion, and investment. From Palm Beach to Jackson Hole, Breck has spent decades helping collectors understand not just what art is worth, but why it matters. Welcome to the iDesign Lab podcast. Thank Speaker 4 (1:19) you. Nice to be Speaker 2 (1:19) here. Speaker 4 (1:19) Thanks for having me. Thank Speaker 2 (1:20) you for joining us in this summertime here in South Florida. Speaker 4 (1:24) Yeah. Speaker 2 (1:25) I think we should just start at the beginning and introduce yourself to the audience. How Speaker 4 (1:29) did you get involved in art? Career in art. Speaker 2 (1:32) So, Speaker 4 (1:33) I mean, I could go way back because for me it actually starts as a childhood thing. Speaker 2 (1:36) Okay. And Speaker 4 (1:37) it's literally, and I don't know if, by the way, stop me if I'm going too deep on any of these stories, but, you know, I was, you know, I... I was fortunate to grow up in a family that had some success. My grandfather founded a big company. As a result of that, had some amazing art. I mean, Monet and Renoir and Picasso and Bonnard and Hans Hoffman and kind of et cetera, et cetera. And I didn't understand that those things had value as a kid at all, but I was attracted to it. Like those visuals worked for me. Later in life, I learned that I was just completely visually oriented. That's how I process information. It's how I understand the world. Yeah. So like I ended up becoming an art history major, undergrad at University of Rochester. For me, that was a complete no brainer. Like I could understand those narratives. That context made perfect sense for me. So to understand world history via those stories, the visual stories worked. And so that took me. Ultimately to architecture, I became a grad student at University of Virginia studying architecture and loved it. Architecture in the way in the end is about, it's art and it's engineering. It's construction. Speaker 2 (2:47) It's Speaker 4 (2:47) the intersection, but at the most fundamental in a way, it's how we organize our world. It's how we understand our world. It's how rituals get formed. It's how we celebrate our life. So that organization made a ton of sense to me and I love studying and I love studying the theory. At the end of my studies, I didn't want to be an architect, ironically. And I mean, as much as I respect the field and I have architects who I'm so in love with their work and I track it all the time and I just didn't want to practice. I was more interested in being an entrepreneur. And like the upshot is that entrepreneurial journey in my 20s and 30s afforded me the opportunity to also collect art. So that led to me traveling the world to... to see and buy art that was about our moment in time. So more Speaker 2 (3:35) modern art. Well, contemporary, right? Contemporary. Yeah, so Speaker 4 (3:38) art about Speaker 2 (3:39) this Speaker 4 (3:39) moment. But Speaker 3 (3:40) question, trying to understand more of this, you're buying art. Are you buying it because you love what it looks like or because there's a value that you could resell it, increases your net worth? What's the... Speaker 4 (3:56) Okay, so what's interesting about that is there's no question that if I bought things that I somehow felt compelled to buy. So by the way, it's not necessarily about aesthetics. It's often about ideas. So I think that a lot of times, sometimes I don't like how museums display art because it's almost like you're only left to make an aesthetic or stylistic decision, not a contextual decision about why that might be hanging on the wall in the museum. Like when you study art history, what you realize is art that ends up being in our canon of history is about a moment in time. Like it helps us connect with a moment. So when I started that collecting journey, like I wanted to understand who was making me feel connected to our moment, like where we're living. And so that was really the context I approached it. Speaker 3 (4:41) And like, so history pieces, pieces that. Go with a moment in time? Our Speaker 4 (4:47) moment. Meaning like contemporary. So made by contemporary artists, like living artists. People Speaker 2 (4:52) our generation. Speaker 4 (4:52) Yeah, our generation. You could Speaker 2 (4:54) actually like meet, understand. Speaker 4 (4:57) Exactly. I might be able to meet them. And if I did, I'd love doing that. Right. Like one of my favorite things in the world was to go to an artist studio and just listen and ask questions. Like hear their process. Yeah. Yeah. See, when I think of art, I Speaker 3 (5:09) always kind of go back up. the artist or art that you hear about, you know, 200, 300, 400 years ago, you don't hear at least from a normal perspective of the artists that are today. Well, there's not as much conversation. Am I wrong? Well, you have Speaker 4 (5:26) to be. Well, so, right. So you have to, so you have to put yourself in that context. So then you do hear about it. Right. So like if you're, if you became, If you became like a collector and so you're going to Art Basel every year in Miami and everyone since the first one, you know, you're going to Switzerland. Yeah. You're connecting with an art dealer, an art advisor that's helping you. So in the end, it's a journey. It's a process. Like early on, I feel like I made a lot of aesthetic only decisions. Which I would Speaker 2 (5:55) think that's how most people start in Speaker 4 (5:57) a Speaker 2 (5:57) way, right? Speaker 4 (5:58) Yeah. And in a way, like that makes perfect sense. It's Speaker 1 (6:01) a Speaker 4 (6:01) great way to start, right? But then I started, there's more and more layers and more and more complexity that ends up, you know, as you're doing it, you learn and then you end up finding other ways that you're starting to be attracted to things. I mean, there was even a moment in time where. If I was repelled by something, I'd be like, okay, stop and like really sit with this. And like, because there's something happening here that you're actually having a visceral reaction to it. And so what is that coming from? And oftentimes I'd end up loving those things because they pushed me. Speaker 2 (6:30) They Speaker 4 (6:31) evoked something within you. It like made me reach, you know, to understand it a little bit. And so it's really just that journey in a way because. I mean, I always like try to point out to people that like, what's, so I'm like an idea oriented person. Like I love, I love ideas. Like I love thinking about like what opens up like something in my mind that allows me to understand something differently. And art is really like the encapsulation of ideas. ideas that ultimately can have real value, but it's literally just the idea. Like it's not a machine that produces a car. It's not, you know, it's not making products. It's representing an idea, right? Like it's at its essence. And that's like a great, like that's uniquely human, right? To be able to abstract something to the point of being intelligible in that form. So. So that to me ended up being a real, like really exciting. And, but it's also challenging. Like you have to look, you have to look a lot and develop your eye. I feel like I'm like. It's Speaker 2 (7:34) almost like a gemologist really to art. I mean, you literally do train your eye to appreciate techniques, their histories or stories. their place in society. So Speaker 3 (7:49) listening to you, I feel like I'm missing out on a lot. You are. No, no, because I think we travel a lot. Like we just came back from Italy. You know, whenever we travel, we're always going to museums. We're always going and looking at art. Like we're at the Vatican and different places. Speaker 3 (8:06) It's all, like I just said, like a couple hundred years old. I don't think we really see or go look and Speaker 2 (8:14) appreciate Speaker 3 (8:14) contemporary. No, Speaker 2 (8:17) we don't. No, it's Speaker 3 (8:19) like, why? Speaker 2 (8:19) It's something we should add to our list of places to do. So I think of contemporary, I say Speaker 3 (8:24) to myself, like, well, who are the contemporary artists? I think of Peter Max, and I had a friendship with Speaker 4 (8:29) Ken Keely. I don't know Speaker 3 (8:32) if Speaker 4 (8:32) I know Ken Cueley. I might recognize the work. Malcolm Forbes made him very popular Speaker 3 (8:37) years and years ago. He was a customer of mine. He did these pictures where it was like... Speaker 3 (8:47) like a magazine stand with all the magazines or a bookstore with all the books. It Speaker 4 (8:53) became very, very popular. Yes, I do know. And there were Speaker 3 (8:57) a lot of them out there. And Malcolm Forbes was the one that bought a few of his pieces for very expensive numbers that elevated him. And he ended up doing a piece for me where in the bottom of it, he did a personalized kind of sketch. having to do with a company that I had and the logo to grocery stores that I had. So he did like a custom sketch of the logo and whatnot, which we have hanging in our house. I wonder if it has any value. Speaker 4 (9:27) I'd be Speaker 3 (9:28) happy to do a little research Speaker 4 (9:30) for you. That would be worthwhile. Speaker 2 (9:32) I feel like that is such the interesting thing of where art and design intersect in a way too. And in some of our travels. When you're saying contemporary was where you kind of, you know, sparked your first interest. You know, one of the tour guides we had hired to walk with us, like in Versailles and what have you, and all these beautiful frescoes and all these paintings. He was like, think of it as the modern day Instagram. You know, this was how they told what was happening. Speaker 4 (10:03) That was Speaker 2 (10:04) their Speaker 4 (10:04) distribution Speaker 2 (10:04) channel, which is Speaker 4 (10:07) like Speaker 2 (10:07) so fascinating to me that when you think of it like that through history anyway, and how inspiration was so localized or historical. Right, Speaker 4 (10:20) because the reach was that, right? Yes. Speaker 2 (10:22) So Speaker 4 (10:22) their reach was localized and yeah, information traveled slowly. Speaker 4 (10:27) Yeah. So we live in a very different moment. Right. Speaker 2 (10:30) Totally different moment. Everything Speaker 4 (10:31) is at light speed. Everything Speaker 2 (10:33) is at light speed. And art, I feel like now is beyond obviously just a bronze or a carving. But it can be those things. Correct. Well, it is those things. It is. No, Speaker 4 (10:46) but it always is. Yeah. Like it can be anything. And by the way, contemporary, like to make a distinction, which I feel like is sometimes important, maybe not for you all, but like contemporary is just like representing our moment. It's not a style. Speaker 2 (10:59) Right. Which is so good to say. Speaker 4 (11:01) I Speaker 2 (11:01) actually love that. Speaker 4 (11:02) Right. No, no, it's Speaker 2 (11:03) not. Speaker 4 (11:03) I Speaker 2 (11:04) never Speaker 4 (11:04) think of it like that. You're right. It's like what the distinction we're making really is just like art being made today. Speaker 2 (11:08) Yes. Speaker 4 (11:08) So it could be anything. It could be someone like reinterpreting Renaissance paintings. It could be someone making Lucite sculpture. It could be, you know. So it's just what's happening today. It's, you know. Speaker 2 (11:19) It's happening now. Be created now. Speaker 4 (11:22) I was thinking a lot when I was first collecting, like, living artists. I wanted to know who was, like, my generation making art. Speaker 2 (11:29) Right. And so where did that journey lead you? Do those artists have, Speaker 4 (11:33) like, real value in terms of, like? I'm filled with regret for the things I sold that have so much value now. I bet. Like, I mean, millions of Speaker 2 (11:42) dollars Speaker 4 (11:42) of value that's been lost. I Speaker 3 (11:44) mean, I always think that the value of an artist is after they've passed away. Oh, no. Speaker 4 (11:50) That's not Speaker 2 (11:51) necessary. No, and Speaker 4 (11:52) by the way, the market's so robust now. Speaker 3 (11:54) I Speaker 4 (11:54) mean, I think about just if you take the timeline, and I'm so bad about timelines. I don't know when exactly Art Basel in Miami for the first one. It Speaker 2 (12:05) was almost like, yeah. Like 2001 or Speaker 4 (12:07) something. 20 something years ago. Speaker 2 (12:09) Yeah. Speaker 1 (12:10) Yeah. So 26. Yeah. Speaker 4 (12:12) Like, so I feel like, like the climate then, and I was like a young collector then. Speaker 4 (12:20) And it's almost like you kind of knew so much of the collector world back then, people that were going to the fairs. I mean, today, fast forward, I mean, almost everybody is considering art as an asset class. Like it's actually anyone with any wealth, like it literally isn't just a collectible. It's actually a potential asset class now. So it's the entire landscape has changed. And Speaker 2 (12:42) what do you think led to that change? Accessibility? Like what? led to that awakening? Well, the wealth creation, Speaker 4 (12:51) I think, in this country, or in the world, is really unbelievable. So it kind of makes the democratization of wealth and information, for sure. People have access to more information. I think the art fairs have really done... Art Pals of Miami is really elevated art in South Florida. Like, no question. Like, it becomes something that people want to go do. They want to go, even if they don't know what's happening, they want to go and check it out. So people are getting exposed and just like, inadvertently, people are becoming collectors, like, you know, and then they're becoming more sophisticated. And it's just like, that's the entree. It was harder to get an entree into it, I think, probably going back 30, 40, you know, 50 years ago. Speaker 2 (13:29) Totally. Speaker 4 (13:30) But that's not true today. Like, it's very easy to find a way to access art. and learn. I think that I always recommend going to art fairs and it's one of the ways I started. So as an art, as an architect, well, as a lover of architecture and studying architect and being interested in art, my first foray into it was buying art designed by art, art made by architects. So like there was an artist or an architect. Aldo Rossi, who would sell his drawings and his sketches. Another one, Taddo Ando, a Japanese architect who's one of my all-time favorites. I have a ton of his sketches. What makes him a favorite? Speaker 2 (14:12) Just a piece of paper. Yeah, so Speaker 4 (14:14) he is so, like, I don't know if... Like he, so also, by the way, when I discovered him was at a time when I was entering graduate school and he, he was reducing like, like structure and experience and buildings to such an essential experience, but like so optimized for like. like beauty and light and, you know, experience with materials that I was just, I was just, it was like a different world for me, like seeing his, his view of architecture. These Japanese, so, you know, there's such a refinement to the way that that culture approaches things. Yeah, it was very minimalist. So it's kind of this essential look at architecture. And so I don't know if you would necessarily love his work, but I mean, I think he's wonderful. He's won a Pritzker Prize. I mean, he's one of the all-time greats of our generation, you know, from an academic and, you know, professional perspective. And he's got buildings all across the world. So he's been able to build everywhere. Speaker 2 (15:14) Like an I.M. Pei or somebody in that type of. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Just Speaker 4 (15:18) reminded me of something. Speaker 4 (15:21) I met I.M. Pei as Speaker 1 (15:22) a Speaker 4 (15:22) kid, and I should actually tell that story because that actually was formative for me. But I love I.M. Pei, Speaker 1 (15:27) especially Speaker 4 (15:28) as a person. He's passed, but I did love him as a person. So for me, Ando helped me understand what architecture could be and the experience with space. And I think that's why I fell in love with Ando. So I found a dealer in New York, Max Protesh. became a friend of mine and I bought like drawings from, if he Speaker 2 (15:53) was Speaker 4 (15:53) like the only dealers that sold like the art of architects. at the time. Speaker 2 (15:58) That's such a cool genre. Yeah, Speaker 4 (15:59) it is cool. I still have a bunch of it. Even Speaker 2 (16:01) as a drafts person myself, I don't ever want to dump them. I think they are so pretty. Yeah. Speaker 4 (16:08) You think like Karl Lagerfeld has all these sketches that people buy and like, I mean, there's all this stuff out there. Speaker 2 (16:14) I mean, Speaker 4 (16:14) another example in the furniture world, I don't know if you all know who Wendell Castle is. Speaker 2 (16:19) No. Do you Speaker 4 (16:20) know Wendell? So Wendell Castle is considered like one of kind of the fathers of the American sculptural. furniture movement. Speaker 2 (16:27) And Speaker 4 (16:28) so unique one-off pieces of furniture that are sculptural, that like literally like they function as furniture, but they are in fact sculpture. And they're often hand-built, you know, interesting craft. I mean, world-class craftsmanship, incredible design. So I got to know Wendell very well, and he's very well collected by people in Miami. Brad Speaker 2 (16:50) Pitt, probably. I think I've seen some of those. Maybe. Speaker 4 (16:53) I wonder if Brad Pitt, who's the big developer? Is it Lieberman, the big development family from Miami? Like they love, I've been to a party at one of their homes with Wendell in the past. Wendell's since passed, but there's a lot of collectors that, you know, love his work. Speaker 4 (17:11) We'll check it out. I Speaker 1 (17:12) will definitely check Speaker 2 (17:13) it out. But Speaker 4 (17:14) that's an intersection of those words. Speaker 2 (17:16) And I have such a deep appreciation for that intersection because as an interior designer who, like you mentioned, I knew from very young that this is what I wanted to do with my life. My dad was a yacht builder. So we always had an in-house interior design team through the years that I would pick fabrics with for throw pillows or help with the sconces. accessories. But when it came to wanting to go to college, I wanted like a four-year experience in a university. And none of the universities offered interior design at the time. And I was like, I wasn't ready to take on architecture at the time. So I have an art history major from Boston University. Oh, Speaker