America's Top Sales Trainer Breaks Down The Perfect Service Call | Jeremy Miner

The Home Service Expert Podcast

In this episode of The Home Service Expert Podcast, host Tommy welcomes Jeremy Miner, founder of 7th Level Sales Training and author of 'The Ne

Key takeaways

• Top performers in any field are committed to mastery, learning from others' mistakes rather than blaming external factors.
• Communication skills are the most valuable skill for success across all professions, surpassing even technical expertise.

Main topics

• Sales mastery and mindset
• Communication as a core skill

Notable quotes

If you don't master communication, you're going to set second fiddle to people who do.

Elon Musk didn't invent the electric car—he just communicated his vision better.

Conclusion

Jeremy Miner emphasizes that true success comes not from having the best idea but from

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) I think there's always four types of people. There are those who wing everything and when they don't make a lot of sales, who do they blame? The leads, the prospects. There's always somebody to blame. Speaker 1 (0:09) They never blame Speaker 2 (0:11) their own lack of skill. Then you have those who are in the middle, those I call the dabblers. If they just get enough reps, eventually they'll figure it out. That takes years, if not decades, right? Then you have the know-it-allers. And then you have... what I call those who are committed to mastery. They want to learn from others' mistakes so they don't make the same mistakes themselves. Those are your top 1 % or higher in any profession. Speaker 1 (0:37) Today I got a good buddy in town. Actually, he lives here. Good friend, Jeremy Miner. He's the founder of 7th Level Sales Training, the author of The New Model of Selling, Selling to an Unsellable Generation. The mastermind. In sales psychology, your company's seventh level was ranked one of the top 10 sales training companies in the world. And you're building content across. It's an empire across Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. I think you're like the second largest training now, just catching up to Sandler, but you're murdering it. Yeah, we're Speaker 2 (1:11) largest in business to consumer sales training, third largest in B2B. Speaker 1 (1:17) Lovely. So let's get the audience here to know who you are, what Speaker 2 (1:22) your passions are, what you're up to. Oh, geez, that's Speaker 1 (1:24) a Speaker 2 (1:24) loaded question. What are my passions? I like to read. Speaker 1 (1:28) You're a big reader. I like to read books. Speaker 2 (1:30) I'm kind of like the boring guy. I'm like the guy on Saturday night that turns on the History Channel and I'm like, oh, ancient aliens. Oh, Speaker 1 (1:37) my God, yes. I'm Speaker 2 (1:39) that type of Speaker 1 (1:39) guy. I Speaker 2 (1:40) like shows like that, documentaries, things I can learn from. What about you? Speaker 1 (1:46) I'm a reader. I like the History Channel. I like ancient aliens. I like to golf. Speaker 2 (1:49) I'll tell Speaker 1 (1:50) you this. I want to see the world. You're big into theology. You gave me a class about... Speaker 1 (1:58) religions and seventh level. Explain seventh level and how you came up with that and some of the religion stuff. Speaker 2 (2:03) Yeah, hardly anybody ever asked me that. So I went to school for behavioral science and my minor was New Testament Christianity. I like history. So it was really the study of Christianity before the rise of Roman Catholicism, like in the fourth century, Council of Nicaea type of stuff. Speaker 2 (2:20) Yeah, I mean seventh level is a term that pretty much every religion – if you study the ancient religions, I'm not talking about Christianity today or Islam today or Judaism today, but like ancient Judaism. If you talk about ancient Christianity or Islam or even religions all the way back to Mesopotamia, they had one core belief that they pretty much all believed in, different versions of this. But they all believed – they actually didn't believe in one heaven or one hell. They actually Speaker 1 (2:45) believed Speaker 2 (2:45) that Speaker 1 (2:46) there were levels of the Speaker 2 (2:47) afterlife or levels of Speaker 1 (2:49) heaven. Speaker 2 (2:50) And God actually dwelt in the seventh level, the seventh kingdom of heaven. Legit. I think actually I said, I told you, and you're like, I'm going to look it up. And then you send me a text. You're like, damn, you're actually right. Yeah, Speaker 1 (3:01) I Speaker 2 (3:01) did look it up. I'm Speaker 1 (3:02) like, Speaker 2 (3:02) I am actually right. Yes, you're like, it says it in the book of Enoch. But actually it's a— They Speaker 1 (3:07) took Speaker 2 (3:07) out the book Speaker 1 (3:07) of Enoch. Speaker 2 (3:08) Yes, they took out the book of Enoch. A Speaker 1 (3:09) lot Speaker 2 (3:09) of different books of the Bible are not there. But anyways, that's another history lesson. But seventh level just means perfection. Speaker 2 (3:17) sales, persuasion, influence, communication, perfection, right? Because what's the number one skill set you can learn in life and master that's going to take you anywhere you want to? Your communication skills. Doesn't matter if you're in sales or not. If you don't master communication, you're going to set second fiddle to people who do. I look at people like Elon Musk. Was he the only person that had the concept of the electric car? Unlikely, but he knew how to frame that concept better. He knew how to communicate his vision better. That's why he got so big. You know, Jeffrey Bezos, was he the only person that had the concept of Amazon? Unlikely. He just knew how to communicate his vision. He knew how to sell. He knew how to frame it better than other people. That's why he got to where he was at. It's all about your communication skills. Speaker 1 (4:06) You know, I always say there's 168 hours in a week. The thing that... Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, you name it, Trump, all these guys, they only have the same. The equalizer is ours that we all have. Speaker 2 (4:20) And Speaker 1 (4:21) people are like, I just don't have time to work out. I just I don't have time to spend. Like whether you have kids, it's very hard for me to spend enough time at work because I got kids, Tommy. It's very hard for me to do. What do you say to people that use time as an excuse? Speaker 2 (4:36) Well, typically that's their belief system, right? That's their frame. So how do I take them out of that frame belief system into a new frame? So one thing you might ask, like, let's say if they're, let's say if you're, you know, selling a sales training program or you're selling something like that, they need to learn from you from like, maybe you're selling a course on how to build a successful home services business. I don't know. You can probably ask them like, well, what do you listen to in your car when you're driving back and forth to work? And they're probably going to say, I don't know, the news, the, you know, music, my favorite. you know, country song or whatever. And I'd probably say, well, how much money is, you know, the news or how much money is, you know, your favorite rock and roll song? How much is that making you every month? And I think a lot of people just don't think about it, right? Because you're like, how much time do you waste on stuff that doesn't do anything for you? Or when you do have time with your kids, are you really spending all that time? Are you really present with them? Are you just looking on your phone? Are you just sitting there watching TV? So it's just. Kind of asking them what they're actually doing at that time. And a lot of times people kind of find the time themselves they never really thought about. That's what I would do. Speaker 1 (5:39) Well, this idea, I'll tell you, Dan Martell reframed a couple of things for me in a big way because I'm pretty methodical when it comes to business. Speaker 2 (5:46) You are. Speaker 1 (5:47) But he's like. how much do you drive a week? And I actually wrote down and I figured out I'm like 12 hours a week. He's like, why wouldn't you have a driver? And I'm like, dude, I'm too humble. I don't need a driver. He's like, wait a minute. He's like, you can get back 12 hours? Speaker 1 (6:07) And he's like, that's not selfish. That's not self-centered. And he just got me to reframe it out of a different lens. Speaker 2 (6:14) And Speaker 1 (6:14) he's like, do you love to cook? How often are you ordering Uber Eats? I'm like, it's probably the most open app on my phone. He's like, then you need to hire a chef. Speaker 2 (6:24) He's Speaker 1 (6:25) like, and he goes, don't think about dollars anymore. Think about percentages, the money you've made. It's just this everything, Tommy. He goes, buy back as much. And he goes, here's your biggest two problems he has with me. Two big problems. Number one, he says. Speaker 1 (6:41) you fill back the time. Like every time you get, you fill it back up. And he goes, you need to spend more time on you. And number two is, he goes, I want you to practice breaking your commitments. Really? That's what he said. He said, because imagine Tommy, you said to, you know, Kathy down the road, 79 years old, that you're going to mow her lawn for the next 10 years. Speaker 2 (7:00) You know, Speaker 1 (7:00) you did that and you made a deal with her. You're at year seven. You're busy, right? Speaker 2 (7:04) He goes, Speaker 1 (7:05) make it right. Speaker 2 (7:06) But Speaker 1 (7:06) you got to figure out, like if you say you're going to speak at something, two years from now and it's 50 people and you've got a billion dollar company, you know, you've got to figure out ways to say no more often. Speaker 2 (7:18) And Speaker 1 (7:18) I suck at that. I've Speaker 2 (7:19) got Speaker 1 (7:19) to be, you know, I'm not very good. It's almost like a muscle you've got to build. Speaker 2 (7:23) Well, time is your biggest asset, right? Because you can be, you know, worth $10 trillion, but you can't buy more time, right? And once your time is gone, you can never buy it back. Right. 100%. I agree. No, I Speaker 1 (7:35) think it's amazing when you look at that. You know, my team wanted me to ask them. They've got a lot of questions, but I'm curious. You know, there's one of the reasons. Home service like garage doors, HVAC, plumbing, electrical were worth so much money. The multiple is so high is because if the economy tanks and your pipe breaks or your HVAC goes out 120 degrees, you're still figuring out a way to get it done. Speaker 2 (8:00) It's a necessity. Speaker 1 (8:00) It's a demand-driven necessity. Garage doors, you're stuck in your garage. The spring breaks, you're going to pay to get it out of there. How do I build demand when it doesn't exist? Let's say you don't have a garage door problem. There's no issues. Speaker 2 (8:14) Well, it's, I mean, I can give you the answer. It's really how you see doubt in the prospect's brain using your tonality and your facial expressions and your body language. And if you're on the phone, your tonality. So it's how you, it's, see, here's the thing. Have you ever wondered why salespeople selling the same thing to the same prospects at the same price points using the same script get completely different results? Because they're selling the same thing, same price point, same people, same script. It's not the words necessarily they're saying. It's how they're saying it. The body language and the tonality. It is. It affects your – everything affects your tonality. So if I'm – what's one question that maybe your guys ask to help a prospect find a problem that maybe they didn't think they had? Speaker 1 (8:59) Well, you know, is the garage door noisy? Is it starting to make – like really noisy garage doors need attention? Speaker 2 (9:05) Yeah. The prospect could say, no, it's not noisy though. Speaker 2 (9:09) See the closing question? Yeah. They could say, well, it's not nosy at all. Or would they ask that because they heard some noise? Where would that come up? I guess, Speaker 1 (9:18) well, some of the questions we ask is, have you ever left your garage door open? Speaker 2 (9:22) Yeah. How often do you leave your garage door open? See, that reframe of the question now goes to the brain is like, how many times do I do this? Because if I say, do you ever do that? Some people will just lie to you. They'll be like, no, because they feel like it. How often do you? Because they were embarrassed, right? So they might just say no because they feel embarrassed. They don't want to tell you they've left it open. But if I say, how often do you leave it open? It trains their brain to go, how many times have I done this? Not have I done it or not. It's a different thing. See the Speaker 1 (9:55) reframe there? No, I love this reframe. I love the framing of the questions. Speaker 1 (10:02) But you know, Chadini, I talked to you about. Yeah, Speaker 2 (10:04) yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 (10:05) Amazing, Speaker 2 (10:05) yeah. Speaker 1 (10:05) He adds yet to the questions. He goes, so are you starting to get bugs in your garage yet? Yeah, because that implies Speaker 2 (10:13) that they're coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Speaker 1 (10:15) it's just these little, I love psychology, and you're like the wizard of it. Well, so Speaker 2 (10:19) I'll give you another example. Let's say, let's stay in the bugs, like pest control. And let's say you're in an area where you're selling pest control. That's a big industry we train as well. And a lot of times, you know, salespeople like, well, you know, the prosecutor say, why? I don't I haven't seen any termites, you know, and then the salesperson starts arguing with them. And so I would just reframe that like, oh, OK, so you haven't seen them yet. OK, so you haven't seen them outside yet. So that means they're still in the wood frame in the house then. OK, well, in that case, see, same thing. OK, so you haven't seen them outside yet. Like you haven't seen them outside yet. So that means they're still in the wood frame in the house then. So what that means is now what did I just frame? that you haven't seen them outside yet because they're still in the wood framing in your house. So now I just see the doubt in their brain that they're there. You just can't see them, which makes it sound even more scarier. Speaker 1 (11:06) You know, one of the things you told me when you're like, dude, you let me work with you a little bit. You will get no cancellations because they're going to want it. They're going to see it. It's not like they'll never feel sold. Speaker 2 (11:19) Yeah. Speaker 1 (11:20) Can you explain that concept? Speaker 2 (11:21) Well, okay, the highest form of persuasion is getting a human being to persuade themselves, right? So Tony Robbins talks a lot about this. I like to take it a step further. The number one way to influence is to emotionally connect with that other prospect where they feel like you understand them, where you're going there first, where they feel like you understand their needs, their wants, their desires, even their fears without buying into their story. What is their story? We don't need it now. Come back later. I'm too busy. Now's not a good time. I can't afford it. See, those are all stories. So if you buy into their story, you offer them no value. So it's that emotional connection that gets them to open up where when you ask questions now, because a lot of times if you can't master emotionally opening up that prospect, what happens is when you ask questions, they'll give you vague, generalized surface level answers, right? And as you know, Caldini talks about the human beings buy on logic or emotion, 100 % emotion, right? And they justify logic. Like I feel like, you know, writing something on this piece of paper because I need to get it done. I feel like every decision you make starts with your emotional side of your brain, right? So if you don't master getting them to open up, then... they stay on their logical side of the brain and that triggers uncertainty, which they don't typically move forward. Or they give you a ton of objections and then you try to push and pressure and maybe they relent and buy. But then when you leave, then that emotion is gone that you transferred them. But if I can get them to internally, if I can. put that emotion in them internally where they feel tension. So it's not sales pressure. Sales pressure is you externally pressuring them. Internal tension is questions you ask and how you use your tone that seed doubt. Like Claudine talks about the word yet, that seed doubt, that causes internal tension where now it becomes their idea where they emotionally attach their problem to the future and actually wanting to get rid of that themselves. Now it's their idea, not your idea. So there's no... there's no reason for them to cancel because they've persuaded themselves that's it's just it was their decision yeah yeah it's way easier to sell you sell way more that way i Speaker 1 (13:34) just eat this stuff up you know you took some acting classes too so you didn't know yeah communication and psychology but how many how many different tones are there again Well, there's a lot of Speaker 2 (13:46) different tones. I say you always want to master the five core tonalities. Okay, you've got the curious tone. That's more fact-finding questions. Okay, so what actually happened with the garage? That's Speaker 1 (13:57) a Speaker 2 (13:57) curious tone, right? Like I said, your tone is how they interpret your intention behind what you're asking. That's how they interpret why you're asking. Then you've got a confused tone. Now, when I say confused, I don't mean you're like... you know, 105 and you've got dementia confused. I mean, you're confused. Like you didn't quite understand what they meant by what they said. So if a prospect says, you know, let's stay in your industry. Like, oh, I'm just, just so frustrated with this freaking, you know, this, this door coming up and down. Hold on. How do you mean by frustrated or frustrated? So I'm confused. Like I don't understand frustrated. Right. So that facial expression, that confused tone, basically their subconscious immediately goes, oh. He didn't understand what I meant by frustrated. I need to explain that better. Now they start to open up and tell you about that emotion. Speaker 1 (14:44) See, Speaker 2 (14:45) that's where they start to become emotionally involved in that context. Then you have a challenging tone. Well, what happens if you don't do anything about this and this gets worse, right? I can't use a challenging tone in the first couple of minutes of a conversation because I don't have much trust or credibility, right? But once I have that authority with them and that credibility, I can challenge them because they trust me at that point. They look at me as the expert. And then you have the concern tone, a tone that shows empathy. I might lean in if you can't get them to move forward. He might be like, can I ask you something? Say that soft tone. Sure, go ahead. What's really holding you back? See that concern tone, that soft tone. It's like on Wolf on Wall Street, right? You see Leonardo DiCaprio do it. He leans in and he's like, John, something came across my desk. See how his tone goes down. That's a concern. It's like you have a secret that you're about to tell him that forces the brain to have to stay engaged. And then you have a playful tone, right? So, you know, you knock on the door, let's say you're selling garages and you're HVAC, you got an appointment and they're like, how are you doing today? You know, most salespeople, they say, oh, I'm doing great, really good, you know, just had a coffee. That doesn't really hurt you, but it doesn't really help you. So how do I, you know, how do I get them to like laugh? You know, because that releases dopamine in your brain. It's disarming. So I might say, oh, you know, just hanging out being the boring guy. What about you guys? Oh, I'm sure you're not boring. And now, you know, they start laughing. Dopamine's released, guard comes down. Those are the five core tones. Now, there's subcategories of each of those tonalities too. So the curious tone, subcategory that you really have to master as a salesperson is a familiar tone, especially if you're cold calling or calling outbound leads. So they answer, you want to sound like they should already know you. Hey, it's Jeremy, Jeremy Miner. Yeah, with XYZ company. I think we talked, what was it, three or four months? See, it's the familiar tone, right? Because if I'm like, is this John? Hey, John. Yeah, because a familiar tone triggers curiosity. So if you ever had somebody call you like, Tommy, it's Amy. Amy Smith, how are you? This guy Speaker 1 (16:57) got me yesterday. He got me good. And I never answered numbers I don't know. Speaker 2 (17:01) Yeah, but see, it's Amy. Amy Smith, how are you? You wouldn't be like, who is this? You'd be like, I'm doing good. How are you? And then your brain is, who's Amy Smith? Who's Amy Smith? How do I know her? She sounds familiar. Speaker 1 (17:11) This Speaker 2 (17:11) happens all the time Speaker 1 (17:12) to me. Speaker 2 (17:12) See? Familiar tone. That's a familiar tone. But if half Speaker 1 (17:16) the time people do know me and they give me a hug and I'm like. You're like, who Speaker 2 (17:20) is this? Speaker 1 (17:21) Was I drinking? Speaker 2 (17:22) Yeah, yeah. No, Speaker 1 (17:23) I Speaker 2 (17:23) get it. I get it, you know, with clients and keynotes and stuff. I'm like, oh, yeah, I think I know this person. So the familiar town. So there's subcategories. I love this. But Speaker 1 (17:30) those are Speaker 2 (17:30) the five core towns. So Speaker 1 (17:31) Elena told me to ask you this. And I was like, listen, I doubt Jeremy would sell something he doesn't believe in. But there's things out there that people, he's like, she's like, could he sell a. I think like, I forget what she said, like a stinky pickle or something stupid. Sorry, Elena. I don't remember exactly what it was or like a really old piece of junk car. And Speaker 2 (17:55) I Speaker 1 (17:55) said, you know, half the battle is, I think, one-on-one is believing in your product and actually like getting behind it because it's really hard to sell something that you just. Absolutely don't believe it. I Speaker 2 (18:06) don't believe in selling something that doesn't solve problems. The thing is, like, I'd sell the junkie car to maybe an antique dealer who looks for junkie cars. Right. For sure. So it's all relative. So every product or service, anything that's ever been created was meant, was created to solve a problem and or an emotional need. Right. Like a $60,000, what are they called, Birkin bags or whatever. That doesn't really solve a problem because, you know, if. you know, your, your fiance wants to haul her stuff around her purse and go to target for $30 and buy a purse there, but it might solve an emotional need, right? Because it's a Speaker 1 (18:41) problem or an emotional need Speaker 2 (18:43) and or both. Right. So like, you know, a Birkin bag, 50 grand doesn't solve a problem, solves the emotional need. Maybe she wants higher status. Maybe maybe she was picked on as a kid in high school and now she wants to show her classmates she's really successful. Right. So we're solving emotional needs. So it just depends on. But if it doesn't solve a problem or emotional need, I would say you shouldn't be selling it. Yeah. Speaker 1 (19:06) What do you