Robert Reid & J-C Slowik: The Madness of Running Harveys, Winning 3 Stars for Marco at The Oak Room & Working for Raymond Blanc, Joël Robuchon & Roger Vergé

The Go To Food Podcast

Robert Reid and JC Slowik reflect on nearly eight decades of combined culinary history, tracing their journeys through elite three-Michelin-star kitchens like Robuchon, Harvey's, and The Oak

Key takeaways

• Robert Reid and JC Slowik combined for nearly 80 years of restaurant history before launching Les 2 Garçons in their mid-50s.
• Both chefs trained under legendary figures like Roger Vergé, Joël Robuchon, and Raymond Blanc, describing the kitchens as mentally brutal but formative.

Main topics

• Michelin star kitchens
• Marco Pierre White & Harvey's

Notable quotes

"It's exactly what it says on the front door. It's the French Bistro run by two people who've forgotten most of what they've learned and have only kept the best."

Conclusion

The episode offers a rare look at the evolution of elite British and French dining, contrasting past

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:04) Boys and girls, the sun shines through one of London's greatest restaurants. We are bringing you another episode of Mise en Place, brought to you by Blink, which you guys agree is the greatest POS system in the world. Oh, yeah. In the universe. In the universe. Now, between Robert Reed and Jean-Christophe, you have nearly 80 years of restaurant history. Jean-Ruben Chon, Roger Verge, Raymond Blanc, Marc-Pierre White. It goes on and on. It does. It really, really does. We're going to get stuck into all of that today. I'm very excited. But in your mid-50s, you sort of crossed eyes. I like to think of a dance floor. It wasn't the dance floor. It was just you phoning him during COVID. So that's by the by and you created one of the greatest neighborhood restaurants of all time your back to back neighborhood restaurant of the year winners your 14th best restaurant in the UK. The accolades go on and on. It's quite incredible. It's very good. It's beautiful to be here. Thank you for having us. Thank you for coming. For those who haven't been here, stupid people who should have come through the doors many times, but take us through what the offer is. Speaker 3 (0:55) Sadly, we can count ourselves amongst that. I know, we're stupid. Speaker 4 (0:57) It's not good. Speaker 2 (0:58) Sorry. We haven't seen you. No, I know. We've watched you. I know. But take us through what the restaurant is. What's the offer here? It's exactly what it says on the front door. It's the French Bistro run by two people who've forgotten most of what they've learned and have only kept the best. And it's kind of the food that we know. especially for myself because I used to live in France. I could never go out to expensive restaurants. I never had the money. But this is the food that I could afford to eat, and it's very close to home. And I suppose when you go through your journey of life, sometimes the simple things are the best things. And having great people around the table with you makes it even better. Who rung who? My wife did. No, I didn't. My wife made me. My wife said, you need to have a restaurant. You need something. I said, okay. She found a place, and I called JC. Speaker 4 (1:54) So should we do it? Within about half an hour, Speaker 2 (1:56) we had agreed to go for it. The mechanics of the other restaurant, it was very cheap. It was out of the act. We had a very low rent to pay. We built the kitchen ourselves. We paid everything. We bought everything. We bought the table legs from a scrapyard, and we got the tabletops from Howden's. cut them sandpaper them the whole thing was done by us let's Speaker 3 (2:15) talk about ikea induction hobs oh Speaker 2 (2:17) we did a lot yeah yeah we actually actually actually Speaker 1 (2:21) we must say argos oven really yeah yeah we had no oven okay the oven was delayed somewhere in god knows where and uh so we went to get one of those uh 150 quid oven from uh argos we had two at one time we were firing on Speaker 2 (2:36) two cylinders and Speaker 1 (2:37) it worked amazingly in fact In fact, it eventually broke after about five or six months, but it was under warranty, so they gave us a new one. And we threw Speaker 2 (2:47) them in the skiff as well. We just went to get another Speaker 4 (2:50) one. Obviously, we're tickling into autumn now. If we were going to come in the next couple of weeks, what little dishes are on the menu? What little treats await us if we come down? We're Speaker 2 (2:59) going to have a little panisse with chickpea and pig. We're going to have a... At the moment, because we're five years old, apparently, today or yesterday. Oh, congratulations. Monday, Monday, Monday, Monday. Speaker 1 (3:14) 14th of September, five years old. Oh, wow. Congratulations. Speaker 2 (3:17) So we're giving away some choux fromage, which are basically little choux puffs stuffed with cheese and mustard and lots of yummy things. We do the roast sea scallops with braised endive with an orange and champagne butter. That's just the time of year. It's very good. Speaker 2 (3:35) And we're gonna have a leg of milk feta, which has been roasted smoked with some flageolet beans, some chirol, some confit garlic and can you be the dessert we're gonna have a tartar town. There we go. You're a Speaker 4 (3:50) beautiful man. I mean, obviously, before you open the original, it was sort of 20 odd covers you previously been doing over 1500 a day basically. about as I mean, how crazy was that change up? And also work with Keith Finnelli? Is he as fucking crazy as it seems? I Speaker 2 (4:06) don't think he's crazy at all. I think he's actually quite a reasonable person. He just really knows what he wants. And he doesn't want to compromise to any other people's things. But he does. I guess he does listen to is one of these. He's kind of one of those people who always leaves a conversation open for an answer back or an idea. He is fanatical about it, you know, and the things if they certain things that bug him it has to change It's not a question about opinion or anything. It's just it has to be right I spent some time in New York with looking at what they do I mean, it's an incredible machine that they've got over there and The quality of things is actually very very good So I mean and they create the atmosphere, you know the feel of what it should be like which is quite difficult to get I think and I think I think the volume part was just fantastic because it teaches you lots of different skills coming, moving down into the smaller scale. I must be honest, I wasn't cooking every day. There's far too many people to manage or run around. You know, it was more or less your biggest job was making sure that the squad was in. But coming back to the little restaurant, it was kind of a revelation, certainly for me, because, I mean... I was cooking again, you know, every single bit of it. You know, I mean, even we didn't have a dishwasher in the beginning, so I had to wash the plates. I mean, even the dishwasher, the dishwater smelled good. Really? You know. And, yeah, it was really good, you know. Speaker 4 (5:33) Because when we spoke to Mr. Harris at Bouchon-Roussillon, he was saying he'd sort of lost sight of his love for food. doing bigger numbers. And then when he returns to smaller, they're the bouchon bistro, you're touching things, you're feeling it, you smell the dining room, you come out and bring you guys bring your plates, the dimes, some of your chefs do. I mean, does that just Speaker 2 (5:49) sort of reminds you of the wonders of? Speaker 4 (5:51) Yeah, Speaker 3 (5:52) I think so. Speaker 2 (5:52) I mean, we own the restaurant, we kind of want to be in contact with our guests, customers, you know, it's not just the restaurant, you know, it's a local restaurant. And It's not a transient thing, and we need to keep these people… I Speaker 1 (6:05) think it transpired in the atmosphere of the restaurant, where the people who owns it runs it. And Speaker 2 (6:10) also… …who are doing it with passion. When we started, I mean, accidentally, the kitchen was so small, if we cooked for one table, JC was on his own in the front, which was quite efficient. And then I had to carry the plates to the table Speaker 4 (6:24) to Speaker 2 (6:25) make sure we had more space to dress the next table. Did Speaker 4 (6:27) it work Speaker 3 (6:28) immediately? Did you both just slot back in? Speaker 2 (6:31) The first Speaker 3 (6:32) day Speaker 1 (6:32) was amazing. I can't cover the worst ever in the history of cuisine. Speaker 2 (6:38) Thank God we knew them Speaker 1 (6:39) all. Speaker 2 (6:40) I was painting the walls at 10 o'clock in the morning and I went, fuck, I need to start doing some cooking. And because we had no supplies, only meat and fish we had, all the fruit and vegetables I bought from the local fruit and vegetable shops around here. And so I had a bicycle and I'd be, you know. like old sad sack with a thing on his back. And yeah, so we cooked. We started off with four starters, four main courses and a couple of desserts. And I was on my own and one of our colleagues, Andre, he was the first person who started with us. He's still here today. He was working as a baker and he come in to help me. I think he was shocked. It was absolute chaos for 10 people. Speaker 4 (7:21) Why do you think there's been such a sort of aggressive movement back to people realising that this kind of food is the best in the world over the last five years in London? Speaker 2 (7:27) I guess a lot of it gets done badly and we've done it quite well. And I also guess things have got very expensive and there are lots of restaurants doing... Speaker 2 (7:39) mixtures of different styles of food and no one's a master of any of those styles of food and they're creating dishes which are not that great really and they cost a lot of money. And I think once we cleared up our identity that this is what we're going to do, we're going to do bourgeois sort of housewife kind of cooking with the experience and skills that I have and he has. And so we had good wine and good food. And people want value for money, you know, and they want more of what they want. You know, they don't want a 10 course. I mean, personally, I don't have the stamina to last 10 courses because I might say something wrong or get pissed. Speaker 4 (8:20) I've been the other night in Glasgow. You chucked out the restaurant. Six courses in and then... Speaker 3 (8:26) You've Speaker 2 (8:26) got Speaker 3 (8:26) to put someone straight. You know what I mean? You didn't have to have no choice. Yeah. Speaker 2 (8:30) And I think people have been playing with those things. I mean, those top... top end, they definitely have their place there, like the Formula One of cars. You know, they're kind of two things. And some of it trickles down. I guess a lot of it will be forgotten because time and money and time, most of all, we can't get it back. And how much time you want to keep fiddling with funny little things, which are hardly relevant to most people's lives. They kind of wither into insignificance, I guess. Our food has a history, our history. It also has a cultural history. And, you know, we're not reinventing the wheel. None of our food is kind of ambiguous or kind of... We want it to be straightforward. No one should be challenged when they walk in the restaurant. The restaurant should be a welcoming place at all points. You know, the wine list needs to be welcoming. The food needs to be welcoming. You know, it's just lovely. Looking Speaker 3 (9:30) at those numbers. That's about Speaker 4 (9:32) it. But when you guys ran restaurants, you know, you run a three mission style restaurant. So, you know, you run in front of house there. When you look at that sort of offering now, does it feel like a bygone era in terms of it's no longer relevant to this dining scene? Well, Speaker 2 (9:47) I think it's relevant, but in our little world, it's not. I think also once you get older, you know, you sort of, when you're young, you feel like you're going to live forever. So you'll fuck around with things forever. hours trying to perfect, you know, trying to get a square peg into a round hole, trying to create this thing that tastes like no one's ever tasted. And then days and time is gone. When you get to 60, if it takes fucking too long, you go, fuck, I've only got 10 good summers left. I need to fucking get on with this shit. Can't Speaker 1 (10:15) be Speaker 2 (10:15) wasting time on this. Speaker 4 (10:18) Yeah, what about with wine JC? I mean obviously you've seen a lot of things over your years. Speaker 1 (10:23) I have indeed I have a huge amount of knowledge by default 45 years of drinking. Makes me a very knowledgeable person. Speaker 2 (10:35) How is Speaker 4 (10:35) drinking in restaurants changed, you know into this modern day and also so what are the big misconceptions around wine in restaurants? Speaker 1 (10:43) I think The wine has definitely changed a lot with many angles. Some of them which are very, very good. Some of them which may not be so good. Some of them we like. Some of them we don't like so much. But I definitely think that there's lots of areas that have come up and some of them have become untouchable. And fortunately, in many ways, I'm from Burgundy, so I do love my Burgundy. So we have a fair amount. In fact, the wine list is split into two. Burgundy and the rest of the world. Oh, that's beautiful. Being, you know, nothing really much out of France. A couple of Spanish wines because I'm married to a Spanish woman and she's a bit fiery, so if I don't have a Spanish wine… No, you've got to keep her happy. Yeah, I have to keep her. Speaker 3 (11:30) And Speaker 1 (11:30) I don't know, I think it's not so much the wine, it's the people who make the wine, which are very important. I think you can have a very good wine anywhere. as long as it's made by the right person in the right way. And I think sometimes you pay too much money for the big names and it's not worth the money. It's like, we'll go back to the three mission star restaurant. You know, you're going to go there and it's 400 euros or 400 pounds a menu. Is it worth 400 pounds a menu? Is the experience will be worth 400 pounds a minute? That's the wine. Well, exactly. I mean, if Speaker 2 (12:05) you Speaker 1 (12:05) have people like us, Speaker 3 (12:07) people Speaker 1 (12:07) like us will run a thousand pound deal just for one. Speaker 2 (12:12) We're Georgian diners, we're three bottle men. But Speaker 1 (12:15) yeah, I think wine is a wonderful part, but it's got to be, everybody has a... When you walk somewhere, you know what you want to spend. Yeah, you have a price in your mind So it's finding that soft spot of what people will get for their money and they believe it's it's that good It doesn't matter what it is, but they have to Be believing that it is value for money. What about the Speaker 3 (12:39) drinkers? Oh, they're still good drinkers as Speaker 4 (12:41) in I don't mean like, you know, Peter at all I just mean people who are willing to come enjoy the good food have a bottle or two Speaker 3 (12:47) of the wine, you know, or is that because we've had people who've said that kind of. I Speaker 1 (12:50) remember when I, you know, in the old days, you know, Thursday night was the big night in London because all the city boys were going back home on Friday and they used to spend money left, right and center and drinking crazy wine and everything. And I think that's kind of disappeared as well. I think there is a certain, I think people are more careful. Yeah. Maybe less is more. go for something better. So I think, especially we are of a certain age establishment, so I think our customers are more likely to spend a little bit more on a bottle of wine. They'd rather have a really nice bottle of wine than drinking too much, because at the end of the day, you don't enjoy the second one. And Speaker 2 (13:37) since the alcohol-free revolution has come in, it has affected. You know, people are looking for different things and tap water features heavily. Speaker 4 (13:48) Well, I mean, many people in this country remember 1966 as the greatest year for football, but actually you two were born in that year. It's Speaker 1 (13:55) a Speaker 4 (13:55) glorious year. One of my favorite years. Robert, you grew up in South Africa like Phil Howard turned out to be a great chef alongside you. But what are your food memories of growing up in South Africa late 60s early 70s? And then we'll ask you. Late 60s. Yeah, I don't remember the late 60s. Speaker 3 (14:10) Late Speaker 4 (14:10) 90s. Speaker 2 (14:12) Whatever you want. You're weaning. Gotta Speaker 4 (14:16) get Speaker 3 (14:17) up Speaker 4 (14:17) to speed. Speaker 3 (14:18) The early 70s. Speaker 2 (14:20) I think when things became relevant, my parents had an old-age home, so we used to have a kind of, I suppose, a semi-industrial-spoke domestic kitchen. Yeah. I think the first one would probably have been cooking. Speaker 2 (14:38) with the African members of staff who had, you know, they used to cook meat in the stew in a certain way. And they used to have this, like a white polenta, which was, they called pap. And they used to cook it super, super slow. And then they'd slightly burn it on the bottom, so it kind of got a smoky kind of thing. And then they dried it out and cooked it for hours and hours. And they cooked the beef, they roasted the beef in a real, like a pot roast. And they never filled it up with water. They just kept adding a little bit at a time. And then they'd cook it until it dried out, then stuck on the bottom. Then they'd add more water and then cook it until it dried and stuck on the bottom. And then deglaze it all the time. Then it formed its own gravy. They cooked it until it was soft. And then you just kind of got your fingers in this like white polenta pup, stuffed it in the gravy and picked up a piece of meat and ate it. Gorgeous. That would be probably my first childhood kind of thing. Yeah. because I spent my life, you know, and running around looking after old grannies and stuff like that. But, you know, how was the placebo? That one's miserable, Robert. Go and spend five minutes with her. She makes a full recovery. And I've robbed her from all her sweeties. Speaker 4 (15:48) What about you, JC? What do you remember from France? Speaker 1 (15:51) My auntie was, I used to spend all my summer because my parents were both working. So I used to be sent to my cousins. and my auntie and she was a great cook. She always used to have a beautiful garden and so she always used to do a lots of jam and all those sorts. But for me, what was the best because we never had chips. When my mother never cooked chips, we never had chips. And my father, my mother only cooked when my father wanted and that was very simple food. and we would go to a restaurant twice a year and I was always hoping there would be chips in the restaurant and never they had chips in the restaurant. It was a catastrophe. But when I went to my auntie, she used to make those wonderful chips. And that was for me, it was the only times I ever had chips. I probably had chips about twice a year. And that was fantastic. But also it's just all the smells. She was always cooking. Always cooking. And yeah, and it was in the middle of nowhere. And I think which we've lost is you were very close to nature. Yeah. Which I think we've lost a little bit of all that, you know, those seasonal things you only eat during the season and forget the abundance of good things in the summer when it's all, you know, all the fruits. I remember going picking up, you know, the blackberries and strawberries and raspberries. Marlberry Speaker 4 (17:07) fights. Speaker 2 (17:09) At Speaker 4 (17:09) what point did you then become sort of interested in pursuing the trade of becoming a chef going to study at hospital at hotel school? And Speaker 2 (17:16) realizing I wasn't smart enough to go to university. So was Speaker 3 (17:20) it an interest? Obviously, you know, you're Yeah, Speaker 2 (17:26) we used to, we all used to cook at home, you know, we used to mess about and cook at school, go camping, do your own cooking, obviously having a braai or a barbecue. Yeah. You know, spend half the day chopping the wood, then burning it and making, you know, doing all those kind of things. So, yeah, we were cooking and outside all the time. And I kind of landed up in going to a cooking school and I did okay. And I was the best student for one thing, and I won some junior chef competitions, and I was a commis chef of the year. And I thought, well, fuck, this is not too bad. I'm winning a bit of shit. Speaker 4 (17:57) How do you end up going to France? Because you're in the Carlton Hotel, the world-famous Carlton Hotel in Joburg. Yeah. And then you suddenly get offered a stage under Roger Verge. Yeah, so I was in a cooking competition hosted Speaker 2 (18:10) by the Chaine de Roteciers or whatever, which was – so I won the one in South Africa, and then there was an international cooking competition in Nice. in the École Lycée, whatever, the cooking school in Lys. Speaker 2 (18:23) I arrived there and that was fun. I did really badly, nearly shit myself. It was difficult. I mean, I'd never ever heard French being spoken in my life. I mean, I did say to my father, it's a load of bollocks because I need to go to France so I can understand it. Otherwise, I can't say I'm a French chef. And then one of my mum's friends who knew Verger or whatever introduced us and we had a chat. And Madame Gloria Frazier is a very elegant French lady. Speaker 3 (18:54) Yeah, Speaker 2 (18:55) but that was it. I did one week over, I think it was around about Christmas time. Yeah. And I asked him if I could