EXCLUSIVE - John Torode - From Running Terence Conran's Restaurants To Life After MasterChef

The Go To Food Podcast

John Torode joins the podcast to discuss his departure from MasterChef after two decades and reflects on his extensive culinary career. He s

Key takeaways

• John Torode is releasing a new cookbook titled 'John and Lisa's Weeknight Dinners'.
• He recalls his early professional years working at Le Pont de la Tour and helping launch Quaglinos in 1993.

Main topics

• MasterChef departure
• Culinary roots in Australia

Notable quotes

I never, ever wanted a Michelin star.

Conclusion

A deeply nostalgic and insightful look at the personal and professiona

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:05) Benjamin is mid-pop and we are back on the GoToFoodPod brought to you by Blink, which is the greatest POS system in the world. Do you want to pop? Oh, what a sound. We're joined by one of the most recognisable faces in Britain. Born in Australia, he moved to the UK in the 90s and went on to build a career that spanned restaurants, cookbooks and more than two decades on our screens. I don't want to make you feel old, John, but it's just facts. He came up through some London's most influential kitchens, became a referateur in his own right and then for the last 20 years... He's best known as the long-standing face of MasterChef, and now he's got some incredible... I mean, he's actually been doing cookbooks for a while, because he did a cookbook for a wonderful restaurant, which we're going to delve into later. But firstly, it's the great John Turow at MBE. I want to give you your full title. I respect you. You're Speaker 2 (0:47) a Speaker 3 (0:47) beautiful man. Speaker 2 (0:48) Thank you very much. Thank you very much indeed. And thanks for the pop. Speaker 3 (0:50) Yeah, yeah. Not at all. I wanted to celebrate. John said he likes Cremant. I hope it's Cremant. Speaker 2 (0:54) It's Speaker 4 (0:54) a bit of English sparkling. Oh, Speaker 2 (0:56) for fuck's sake. Speaker 4 (0:56) I Speaker 2 (0:57) was trying Speaker 4 (0:57) to be, you know, trying to... I Speaker 2 (0:58) think it's a really nice idea. And I think it's good to support the local community. Speaker 4 (1:02) Can Speaker 2 (1:02) I Speaker 4 (1:02) also give you some sparkling water, John? Speaker 2 (1:04) Separately, yes, absolutely. Thanks very much indeed. That'd Speaker 4 (1:06) be Speaker 2 (1:06) great. Thank you. Beautiful. Speaker 3 (1:07) You brought up the San Pellegrino for John. He's a big hitter. I didn't buy it out of go at you for not making, sort of buying the right tuna the other day. I Speaker 4 (1:14) know. What tuna did you buy him? Well, I bought Ortiz, but I think... Oh. And he thought it was cheap tuna, which might be just what I did to it. Speaker 2 (1:21) Right. So Speaker 4 (1:22) I made a, you know, Vitello Tonato for him. Right, nice. Yeah, very nice. Not nice enough for my friend Adam. Not nice enough for chefs. Anyway, he was giving it the tuna. Was Speaker 2 (1:31) it Speaker 4 (1:31) free? Speaker 2 (1:31) Free tuna. You Speaker 4 (1:32) didn't charge him? No, I didn't charge him. I'd never charge Bob. Well, Speaker 3 (1:35) he did a live show for us, so we had to feed him. Still, okay, fair enough. He refused to eat your tiramisu, though. Speaker 4 (1:40) He didn't eat Speaker 2 (1:40) it, Speaker 4 (1:40) so he was disgusted by the tuna. Yeah. Speaker 2 (1:42) No one's perfect. Well, that's good. I'm not a tinned tuna person. Okay, so... It's one thing I can't be converted to. Really? Why not? I don't know. I think it's got to do with growing up. My nanny used to eat fish from tins. And it was one of those things that I think as a young kid, I'd walk in the kitchen and it was like the sort of smell of fish from a tin. It's Speaker 4 (2:00) not great. Speaker 2 (2:00) And, you know, as you said, I've been around for a really long time. I'm quite old. Hey, you're gorgeous. Thanks very much. And so we, I mean, I grew up in a place where refrigeration was only just invented. So, you know, fish in tins was. Come on. Speaker 4 (2:11) Was that really? Speaker 2 (2:12) Well, no, no. But I mean, you know. It was like people Speaker 4 (2:13) were still. Speaker 2 (2:14) I'm talking about rural Australia in 1970s, you know. We had black and white television in two stations on the telly. So, you know. Speaker 4 (2:20) Great cricket team. Simpler times. Great cricket team. It was good, yeah. John, Speaker 3 (2:23) can I cheers you? Thanks for coming on, John. Thank you Speaker 4 (2:25) very Speaker 3 (2:25) much. We've been waiting for a Speaker 4 (2:26) couple of years for John. Speaker 3 (2:27) I know, Speaker 4 (2:27) I'm really sorry. John, do you Speaker 2 (2:28) like our Speaker 4 (2:28) longest chase? Speaker 2 (2:30) You are. You and Tevv. And I've got to say, I appreciate your chasing. Speaker 4 (2:34) It's always great to chase. It's nice to chase. How is that? Is Speaker 2 (2:37) it all Speaker 4 (2:37) right? Speaker 2 (2:38) It's cold and refreshing and delicious. Actually, that's really good. It's not bad, right? Sort of slightly elderberry type, you know? Not sort of more berry than flowers. It's good. Speaker 3 (2:47) Yeah. Especially out of a blink glass, the greatest PO system in the world. But let's quickly talk about this book because it's coming to the end of the summer when this podcast comes out. And we've got the incredible John and Lisa's weeknight dinners. I've been cooking it. You know what I was telling you? I was at Rose's the other day. Yeah. And I had that little Thai dish, the minced chicken. Oh, the larb. Yeah. Just back here. I've cooked it twice. It's unbelievable. Speaker 2 (3:06) I'm glad Speaker 3 (3:06) you like larb. And also, the other dish I like is the combo of your dad's... dish with your granny's tomato bake. My Speaker 2 (3:14) nanny's tomato and onion bake, right? I don't know what it is. There's something about it. Again, this is like Maitland's 1970s. She used to get tomatoes obviously only at certain times of the year. Sliced tomatoes, butter, loads of butter in Speaker 4 (3:28) the Speaker 2 (3:28) bottom of the tray first. Layer of onions, tomatoes, onions, tomatoes, onions, tomatoes, breadcrumbs across the top into an oven and cook them. And then come out and sit for about 20 minutes. And then my dad's crumb lamb cutlets, which my brother still cooks. probably once a week. Really? Crumb lamb cutlets. Don't do them here. No. Cutlets aren't a thing. No. But cutlets in Australia are massive. Speaker 4 (3:48) Cutlet versus a chop. What is a cutlet? Speaker 2 (3:50) Well, a cutlet means it's got, you know, the rack of lamb. Yeah. That's what a cutlet is, but with a fat cap still on it. Speaker 4 (3:57) Beautiful. Speaker 2 (3:57) And then you crumb them. And when you crumb them and fry them, what happens is the steaming of that... inside the casing sort of almost steams them, keeps it really, really moist, but renders the fat at the same time. And the bones, I mean, just chew them. It's great. Speaker 3 (4:13) The idea behind the book is brilliant, though, because it's deliberately uncomplicated, but... Delivering deliciousness as max. How they would say well Speaker 2 (4:19) I think this is the thing with the book is what we tried to do is to do both really and also give people the option Yeah, Speaker 3 (4:24) you Speaker 2 (4:24) know the fact is that you're not going to go home today and make your own samosas Are you so what you will do is in there? There'll be you know for instance a Lisa's butter chicken Yeah Which is really really quick and then you go and get your your samosas and get the frozen parathas from the freezer get your jar of And then some lime pickle And then some aubergine pickle, maybe, or the mixed pickle. That's really good. Yeah, Speaker 4 (4:47) yeah, Speaker 2 (4:47) seriously good. And Speaker 4 (4:48) then Speaker 2 (4:48) you've got lunch, Speaker 4 (4:48) dinner, whatever. Whatever. Speaker 2 (4:50) Yeah, and breakfast, because I think leftover butter chicken for breakfast is a really good thing. Cold? Yeah. Yeah, cold. Yeah, we'll maybe give it a little bit of a zhoosh. See what happens. Yeah. Speaker 3 (5:00) I'm eyeing up that banh mi with the duck and the duck pate. Right. That looked unreal. Speaker 2 (5:05) That's clever, because this is Lisa's job, right? So this is what Lisa does. She's very clever. So we're talking about doing banh mi, and for people to get banh mi, it's really a baguette, pate inside, some vegetables, sort of Vietnamese dressing. And she spotted that you could get crispy duck in supermarkets. Yeah, Speaker 4 (5:24) beautiful. Speaker 2 (5:24) So you put that in the oven, you get crispy duck, you make yourself a sandwich, and a sandwich is all right for dinner. Yeah. Fish finger sandwich is good for dinner. That's Speaker 4 (5:32) a Speaker 2 (5:32) good shout. You know, what's wrong with a sandwich for dinner? Speaker 4 (5:35) Nothing. Although I've had tantrums about getting served the wrong things for dinner, really. My wife's parents just eat a single boiled egg sometimes on a Sunday night. It's not workable. That's very Victorian. Speaker 2 (5:45) What, no dippers or anything? Nothing. Speaker 4 (5:47) Just an egg? Just a single egg. You've got to have two boiled eggs. Speaker 2 (5:51) I mean, I've seen it on the trains in Korea. They take a boiled egg with them for their sort of snack. A Speaker 4 (5:55) snack's fine. But not for dinner. Not Speaker 2 (5:57) for your Speaker 4 (5:57) Sunday dinner, John. Do Speaker 2 (5:59) you get a glass of red with it? Speaker 4 (6:00) You Speaker 2 (6:00) get nothing with it. It's just you have your single egg. Speaker 4 (6:03) Anyway, so the sandwich, you know, I'm on the fence. But I think, you know, one of Lisa's bad memes. very behind. Speaker 3 (6:09) Well, Lisa won Celebrity MasterChef, right, 2010. Obviously, that's when you first met. Speaker 2 (6:13) Well, funny enough, we met each other years before. I didn't realise. She told me she'd met. Apparently, we met on this morning in 1997. Speaker 4 (6:24) When Speaker 2 (6:24) I first started doing it. Richard looking Speaker 3 (6:27) his best, I imagine. Well, Speaker 2 (6:28) Richard wasn't even on the show. It was a Phil Impia person. But then Richard and Judy were moving from Liverpool to London. That's when they first started. Speaker 4 (6:35) Oh, Speaker 2 (6:35) excuse me. Sorry, Joe. It's Speaker 4 (6:36) the Speaker 2 (6:36) Bramley here. That's the Bramley fizzy stuff. I'm having to ward it off. And yeah, we met there apparently. But I didn't really know Lisa very well at all. No. And, you know, now I know her very well. Speaker 4 (6:48) You do know her very well. Speaker 2 (6:50) And she's lovely. What was Speaker 3 (6:51) the first thing you cooked for her to impress her? Come on. Speaker 2 (6:54) Oh, I cooked her spaghetti and clams. I made a fongole. And by the time I turned around to start eating with her, she'd eaten half the bowl already. Speaker 4 (7:04) So there's a good sign. As in, the dish is good, obviously, but also that the person's good. Speaker 2 (7:09) But what I love when Lisa's really, really hungry, she gets hanger. I don't know how many people you know get hanger. She gets proper hanger. And when she does get hanger, she starts to eat almost like a sort of... chipmunk where the fingers come in and she has to eat like this so really really fast and eat things really really quickly so i could hear the sort of shells of the clams hitting the the plate because the clams were coming out of the spaghetti and spaghetti was left over so it was good another Speaker 3 (7:32) lady you had the great honor for cooking for was the great elizabeth david at the pond little i did what are your memories of that amazing Speaker 2 (7:37) experience the pond to the tour in total was an incredible experience because it wasn't just about elizabeth david and you know um Bill Clinton and all the people who turned up. But I remember Terence, Terence Conran, the great Terence Conran, or Sir Terence Conran. And I didn't really know who he was. He was an Aussie, came to London, went to Le Pont de la Tour. And I was in there. I used to get in really early in the morning because in a kitchen, as many people will know out there, what you've got to do is you've got to nick your stuff to make sure you put your stuff for your mise en place, so you've got containers and the right amount of plates. And I did larder and my plates were polished and everything stacked up in my section. And I was in there about half past seven and this man came into the kitchen in this sort of blue shirt and a tie and dribbled down the front of his shirt. Excuse me. Hello. Yes, sir. Tell David these are from Provence. Put them on the menu. And he gave me this bag. So what the hell is this? Strange man. Anyway, and it was a bag of figs. This most amazing bag of figs. Open this bag of figs up. Anyway, the chef then, David, walked in the kitchen. I said, David, some old bloke's just come in and given you a big bag of figs and said it's from Provence. I don't know who he was. He went, that's Sir Terence. That's Speaker 3 (8:54) the Speaker 2 (8:54) big one. Speaker 4 (8:54) Oh, Speaker 3 (8:54) okay, fair enough. But Speaker 2 (8:56) I remember probably six months later walking on the front of the Pont de Tour and I was going to work and he walked past me and he picked up a piece of paper off the pavement. I said, Terence, what are you doing? Speaker 1 (9:09) Well, Speaker 2 (9:10) I'm picking up a bit of rubbish. Everybody should pick Speaker 4 (9:12) up a bit of rubbish out the front of their own restaurant. Speaker 2 (9:14) And I thought it was a really lovely lesson. You know what? He wasn't beyond anything. He was really sort of loved every part of it from the, you know, the plant pots outside to the cheese cabinet. And when you got it wrong, you knew. But really incredible. Oh, yeah, yeah. Where was Speaker 4 (9:30) it with Pond de la Tour? Where was he in his like changing of the London restaurant scene? Speaker 2 (9:35) Le Pont de la Tour, that was the first one. Yeah. He'd done Babendum, then Le Pont, and then he opened up Chop House, and then he opened up the place next door, the Italian place, kind of what it was, and then we opened up Quaglinos. Yeah, of course. So Le Pont was 92, and we opened Quaglinos in 93. So I started 92 in February, and I was in Quaglinos by 93 in opening up Quaglinos. Did it feel Speaker 4 (10:02) like a... revolutionary period. Speaker 2 (10:04) Oh my gosh. Can I say fuck? I mean, it was Speaker 4 (10:09) the Speaker 2 (10:09) most fucking extraordinary explosion of food that's gone on. There was a group of sort of Aussies and, you know, like-minded people who were going around just going, what's happened? This landscape of food is strange, isn't it? You know, I came out of Sydney where I'd eat out three or four times a week and it wasn't expensive. Came to London and it was weird. You know, One Speaker 4 (10:31) sort of special restaurant and nothing else. Yeah, and Speaker 2 (10:34) food was really expensive. Like going to a local Italian was expensive and it wasn't very good. Whereas Australian and Italian food was amazing. Greek food was amazing. And it was just odd. And then suddenly Terence walks in and it was just like, oh my gosh, this is extraordinary. I remember we opened up Quags 93 and we opened up on sort of the first week, which was Valentine's Day. and it was hugely successful. Did Saturday night, and on Sunday everybody thought, we'll have a nice quiet day. Sunday lunch we did 320. And so what we all did, all the chefs in the kitchen got around. They made phone calls around to all the different hotels around St. James Square and up into Mayfair and everywhere else. And everybody had to go to a hotel and pick up a food parcel to bring it back to make sure we had enough food for dinner. Speaker 4 (11:22) Wow. It was Speaker 2 (11:24) unbelievable. Speaker 4 (11:24) Yeah. Speaker 2 (11:25) And everybody then from Princess Di to Mel Gibson to, you know, I mean, it was just the most amazing group of people who walked through Speaker 4 (11:32) it all. Speaker 2 (11:32) It Speaker 4 (11:32) was the Speaker 2 (11:32) B spot, Speaker 4 (11:32) wasn't it? Oh, Speaker 2 (11:33) yeah. It was cool. It was cool. And it didn't stop rocking. Speaker 3 (11:38) Well, lots of Australians there who obviously loved you. There was one we had on the show a couple of years ago who didn't. Said he grew up from the street opposite you, a certain David Angelos. I just want to play you a quick clip just to remind you and just get your memories of growing up alongside him. Speaker 4 (11:51) This must be heaven for you. I mean, better in a vibe. Text me to my young days. I remember. This is a John Sir Road recipe, by the way. Sorry, I should say that. It's actually... Speaker 2 (12:01) I've been Speaker 4 (12:02) fucking kidding, mate. Speaker 2 (12:03) Do you recognise David Angelos? No, I don't. It's Speaker 4 (12:06) fucking disgusting. Speaker 3 (12:08) You Speaker 4 (12:08) don't remember David Angelos? No. Speaker 3 (12:10) The Speaker 4 (12:11) great David Speaker 3 (12:11) Angelos? No. Apparently he grew up in the street. You guys used to have beef. No. No. Speaker 4 (12:17) David's a bastard. Yeah, yeah. Is he a fantasist? Speaker 2 (12:19) He's jealous of John's success. I'm surprised. I think he might actually be an actor. Speaker 4 (12:24) He's not an actor. Speaker 2 (12:25) David Angelos? Yeah, I don't even know who he is. Really? He's Speaker 4 (12:28) been Speaker 2 (12:28) on Speaker 4 (12:28) the pod, he's legit. Speaker 2 (12:29) I know, I saw it. Everybody on the pod's been there. But do you know what? The whole thing. He Speaker 3 (12:34) said your food has too much flavour. It's too good. Isn't that great? Speaker 2 (12:37) I like that. He said it has Speaker 3 (12:38) too much zing. I Speaker 2 (12:39) think anything which is, you know, delicious Speaker 3 (12:41) is... What Speaker 2 (12:41) was he feeding him? Was that a set of boy? Speaker 4 (12:43) Yeah, I think it was. What, Speaker 3 (12:45) a Speaker 2 (12:45) spanakopita? Yeah. Oh, nice. Speaker 3 (12:48) Well, he was obviously jealous of your success. Let me take you back to Australia, because you were born in Melbourne, right? No, so you were born in Sydney, then moved to Melbourne, then back to Sydney. It was dancing from Victoria to New South Wales. It was very confusing. But tragically, you lost your mum when you were three or four. Yeah. Or your first food memories and your sort of great memories starting when you moved to your granny's. Speaker 2 (13:07) No, I mean, I don't think I remember anything really of sort of... pre my mother dying, especially deal with food. Um, but then going to my Nana's, I think what happened. And if I sort of go through, you know, later life and all the bits of sort of therapy I've been through over my life, that there was, there was a sign of, of having to find something matriarchal to hold onto. And so my grandmother's, you know, apron strings were right where I've sort of settled where my brother was outside, you know, going to get golf balls out of the, out of the creeks and the golf course. And my other brother was out on his bicycle. I was at home with my, grandmother cooking and i loved it yeah i really really loved it i loved the whole idea of food and and you know eating and what Speaker 4 (13:45) type of cook because the the list of recipes that she seems to be quite a creative cook but also like very good mash right you're like what was so what was the food on the table the Speaker 2 (13:54) basic of the basic yeah you know she was meat and two veg and um you know as i say rural australia 1970s and we had a veg truck that would turn up once or twice a week and it would have a large sort of expanse at the back with a chopping board where the big pump can be cut into wedges but you'd only get what was ever available in seasonally those those times the bakery the bakery truck would turn up mr unicum i can still remember was our um rugby coach and also the local grocer and he would deliver once a week um yeah i played rugby and it was the worst thing i ever did in my life um but uh so You know, it was really basic, but it was great mashed potato, amazing roasties, potatoes, beans, peas, tomatoes and onions. And funny enough, we only ate chicken twice a year, and that would have been Easter and Christmas because it was so expensive because by then the chook shed had gone. Yeah. So she wouldn't kill the chickens for Christmas, so she had to buy them in. But otherwise it was sort of things like lamb chops and stuff like that, mince, you know. Speaker 4 (14:56) Yeah. Speaker 2 (14:57) Really basic. She was a really good basic cook. And her favorite thing to use was called a vertical grill. So a vertical grill looks like one of the laptops standing up. Imagine a sort of, you know, like when you get a toaster and it's got that sort of toasted sandwich holder in it. Imagine a massive one of those. And you put all your lamb chops in it and then you drop it inside this vertical grill. And everything grills and all the fat drops down the bottom of it. Very clever. Yeah. Speaker 4 (15:26) Can you get those? I mean, that's not a thing anymore, is it? Speaker 2 (15:28) I don't think so. I think they probably set alight quite easily. Speaker 3 (15:31) Do you still make your mash like that? Exactly the same. Which is what? What's the technique? Speaker 2 (15:36) So the idea is you, I still use a fork, which drives everybody mad. Do boil my potatoes. Take my potatoes out, put them back into a pot, and then take them off the heat slightly with a towel across the top. Leave them for a couple of minutes, let the moisture come out, they'll go white and fluffy. Then mash them with a fork. Make it well in the center of them butter milk salt white pepper Let that come to the boil then stir that around with a wooden spoon and then beat the living heck out of it And that's it and then just let it sit. Speaker 3 (16:06) Oh And your father was also in the food world. I mean orange juice. I was reading about KFC coleslaw I mean, what was the family business? My Speaker 2 (16:13) father had an orange juice business and his claim to fame was he had he had the this 1970 when my mother died, which was 1971 72 He had the contract for cold slaw potato salad and fruit salad for Kentucky Fried Chicken around Australia. Speaker 3 (16:27) What a geek. Speaker 2 (16:28) So there weren't very many. Speaker 3 (16:29) No. Speaker 2 (16:29) You know, the word takeaway didn't exist. There wasn't a McDonald's in Australia in the 1970s until I don't know when that arrived. But, yeah, so I'd go to his factory and he had these ladies who would be cutting fruit salad. And I remember eating the core of the pineapple, which