The Sister of Nicole Brown Simpson Speaks Out

THE ED MYLETT SHOW

Ed Mylett interviews Denise Brown, sister of Nicole Brown Simpson, about her new book and decades of advocacy following her sister's tragic

Key takeaways

• Denise Brown initially dismissed early warning signs of abuse as isolated incidents before learning about the cyclical nature of domestic violence.
• She testified before Congress to help pass the Violence Against Women Act, successfully doubling its initial funding from $18 million to $32 million.

Main topics

• Domestic violence awareness
• Cycle of abuse and control

Notable quotes

"One woman is too many."

Conclusion

The episode serves as both a poignant tribute to Nicole Brown Simpson

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:04) This is the Ed and Marlon Show. Speaker 2 (0:07) Welcome back to the show, everybody. So this interview is, I don't know, 30 some odd years in the making. 32. 32 years in the making. And I really wanted to talk to this woman for a really, really long time. I was just telling her off camera. Ironically, I know her other sister, Tanya, and I've met her parents several times because I was in business with somebody connected to their family. And I've just admired her from a distance, the way that she's carried herself all these years in the public eye and through some really, really difficult times. So let me tell you about her. You probably know first her sister, who is Nicole Brown Simpson. And you know that she lost her life in a very tragic event. And since that time, I've watched Denise become this just tremendous advocate for women, violence against women. The Violence Against Women Act was a big thing that she was involved in. And she's just a stalwart for people that are taken advantage of, and particularly women that are being abused. And so we're going to talk about her sister today. We're going to talk about a little bit of what happened there, and also just overall this epidemic, it seems to be, of violence that's happening towards women in our world today. And she's written a book that is out today, if you're watching this interview, called For My Sister Nicole, Love Shouldn't Hurt. Denise Brown, welcome to the show. Speaker 1 (1:25) Thank you so much for having me. Speaker 2 (1:27) I'm so glad you're here. Why now are you writing this book about your sister and the events that took place? Why is this the time to do it? Speaker 1 (1:35) Well, I think everything runs its course, right? I was not educated about domestic violence. Speaker 2 (1:42) I Speaker 1 (1:43) didn't know anything about it. I was reading her notes and diaries after my sister Dominique found them when my dad and her were up in Los Angeles cleaning out her condo. Speaker 2 (1:54) And Speaker 1 (1:54) so when I read these, because I was the first one to come out and say, no, Nicole's not a battered woman. Speaker 2 (2:02) I Speaker 1 (2:03) did an interview with the New York Times saying no, because I did not know what a battered woman was. Speaker 2 (2:10) And Speaker 1 (2:10) I think that it's taken me this long to actually realize that, hey, you know what? You do know what you're talking about now. Speaker 2 (2:19) You Speaker 1 (2:20) do understand domestic violence now. I mean, I learned something new every single day. And the one horrific thing that I did learn just recently was on a podcast that Oprah Winfrey did with Rachel Louise Snyder. Because back in the day, 32 years ago, it was always one in four women Speaker 2 (2:41) would Speaker 1 (2:43) fall victim to domestic violence. Then it was maybe one in three. Well, just this year. One in two women. My Speaker 2 (2:54) gosh. Speaker 1 (2:54) So that for me was like, oh my gosh, are we going backwards? Speaker 2 (2:59) What Speaker 1 (2:59) is happening in our country? And so anyhow, so I just felt like even one in three was too many. One in four is too many. Speaker 2 (3:08) One Speaker 1 (3:08) woman is too many. So I just felt like after 32 years, I felt like finally, Denise, you know, you did a lot of wrong things. There's a lot of ways that you could have handled this differently with Nicole. So I feel like, okay, finally I've matured enough. I've learned enough to finally write a book. To finally talk about domestic violence. Speaker 2 (3:37) I'm really glad you did. I'm surprised to hear that you did not think that she was subjected to domestic violence. Just because there's a story in the book about... and I'll let you tell it, and then tell me what your perspective was when you saw it. But there's this part of the book where, like, you literally see him grab your sister by the throat and essentially lift her off the ground and put her up against a wall. Exactly. Speaker 1 (3:58) So when Speaker 2 (3:58) you saw something like that, why don't you describe what it was and how it happened, and then why was it that even observing that, you thought there was some, whether it was a normalcy or you thought it was an isolated incident or domestic violence meant it was every day, not once in a while. What was the reasoning? Speaker 1 (4:15) Well, okay, the incident happened when we went to a restaurant. Everything was fine. We were drinking our margaritas. It was a Mexican restaurant. And tequila, fire water, okay. Then we go back to the house, Nicole's house. And all of a sudden, he's still making drinks. And we're still drinking and having a great time and talking. And he tells Nicole, he goes, go get some food. I said. why do we need any food? I said, we just got finished with a huge Mexican meal. He said, Nicole, go get some food. I said, oh my God. Of course, I had had a few too many drinks already too. So I just said, God, you just totally take Nicole for granted. Well, that was the wrong thing to say because all of a sudden he comes running from behind the bar. I thought he was going to grab me. I thought he was going to grab Nicole. I didn't know what was happening. He runs up the stairs. Pictures start flying into the foyer. Glasses breaking everywhere. He proceeds to run into their bedroom. All of a sudden, clothes start coming down. Hangers, shoes, boom, boom. And then he runs back down the stairs. He grabs Nicole. He throws her. He has her by the neck, about six inches off the ground. Speaker 1 (5:36) I run over and I am banging on him. Speaker 2 (5:39) And Speaker 1 (5:40) all I see is veins popping out and black eyes. Speaker 2 (5:45) And Speaker 1 (5:45) I'm just like, stop. Oh, you know, and I'm cussing at the storm and hitting him and doing all kinds of stuff. And then all of a sudden he released her and he threw her outside. Nicole fell on her butt, bloodied elbows and just blood everywhere. Speaker 2 (6:01) And Speaker 1 (6:01) I was just like, I said, you're insane. You're nuts. But for me, it was an isolated incident. Speaker 2 (6:10) I Speaker 1 (6:11) had no idea that there was a cycle of domestic violence. We ended up taking Nicole to a hotel. But a cycle of domestic violence was something that I learned after I had said, after we had found her diaries, after I had said, Nicole is not a battered woman. Speaker 1 (6:31) I went to the shelter, my mother and I did. We took the diaries and her journals. And I said, I said, what does this mean? It was a shelter in Laguna Beach, Human Options. Speaker 2 (6:43) So Speaker 1 (6:44) I spoke with the executive director there, Vivian Klicak. And I said, Vivian, I said, I don't understand this. So I thought it was an isolated incident until I learned that domestic violence is all about power and control. Domestic violence is about one human being needing to control another human being. The verbal, the emotional, the psychological abuse, the chipping away at somebody's self-esteem. You're stupid, you're ugly, you're worthless. Nobody's going to want you except me. Speaker 2 (7:15) That Speaker 1 (7:15) escalates into the physical violence, hitting, the kicking, the punching, throwing up against walls. And then there's the honeymoon phase of, oh, baby, I'm so sorry. It's never going to happen again. The gifts, the flowers, and the excuses. Speaker 2 (7:31) Was OJ that way with you, with Nicole, Denise? Was he apologetic and then would make up for things and then just kind of reel her back in? Is that what you mean by part of the cycle? He would actually do that? Speaker 1 (7:43) Well, what happened was we were at the hotel the next morning. She says, oh, I'm going to go back and I'm going to go get some things. I need some clothes. I said, okay, I'm going with you. Sure. Speaker 2 (7:53) She Speaker 1 (7:53) goes, no, no, no. She goes, it's okay. She goes, he's not going to be there anyway. I said, Nick, I said, I feel better if I come with you. What am I going to do? I don't know, but I felt more comfortable going. And she said, she goes, no, she goes, don't worry about it. She goes, he'll be gone. I said, okay. So an hour passes, two hours pass, three hours. I finally get on the phone and I call her home phone because we didn't have cell phones at the time. Right. Speaker 2 (8:21) So Speaker 1 (8:22) I'm on the phone and I said, Nick, I said, where are you? And she says, she goes, you know what? Everything is okay. He apologized. Wow. And I said, I said, what do you mean everything's okay? I said, everything is not okay. Speaker 2 (8:37) And Speaker 1 (8:37) that's when I said, oh my God, you got to get out of there. What are you doing? She goes, Denise, honestly, she goes, everything is okay. Speaker 2 (8:44) And I Speaker 1 (8:46) said, okay. She knew what she was doing. I thought. I didn't know she was caught up in a cycle of domestic violence. That's why I am so adamant about speaking and talking about this. And I just want people to understand that, hey, it can happen to anybody. There are no socioeconomic boundaries. Speaker 2 (9:06) It Speaker 1 (9:07) doesn't matter if you're black or white, rich or poor, gay or lesbian, Democrat or Republican, or what religion you are. And I threw Democrat and Republican in. after I went to Congress for the Violence Against Women Act. Because when I was there, all of a sudden I am hearing, okay, I testify, everything is okay. We're talking about the Violence Against Women Act. We're talking about victims of domestic violence, what this bill would do, increase funding for shelters, for law enforcement, things like that. And then all of a sudden, something totally different was happening. And I said, well, what is this? I said, I think I'm in the wrong courtroom. I said, I don't believe that I'm supposed to be here right now. Speaker 2 (9:52) They Speaker 1 (9:52) said, oh, yeah, if you want to get anything passed bipartisan, which is the only way you can get anything passed in Congress. Speaker 1 (10:02) This, what they were talking about was putting a road someplace in the country. And I said, oh my God, they are reducing women to pavement. Speaker 2 (10:14) That Speaker 1 (10:14) was my education, my very first education about domestic violence and how Congress works. Speaker 2 (10:20) That's crazy. Let me ask you another part of Speaker 1 (10:24) the Speaker 2 (10:24) education part. Teach us about a little bit of interaction with your sister and then how this plays out. Did she ever? And when I ask you this, I'd like you to answer why it's not talked about enough. So one of the things in prepping for this, I was surprised to read how underreported it is and how prevalent it is that the abused is not telling their girlfriend, hey, he hits me. Hey, he choked me. Hey, he's verbally this or that. Did your sister confide in you that this was happening regularly? And if not, why is she like the majority? What is it that causes someone not to speak up for themselves? Is their self-esteem so reduced through this cycle that they don't speak up? Are they embarrassed? Is there some thing where they think somehow it's their fault, which is insane, but it could be part of their thinking? What is that, and what did she say to you? Speaker 1 (11:15) Well, she never told me about any of the abuse, okay? Speaker 2 (11:19) I Speaker 1 (11:19) saw it. I took pictures of her. Speaker 2 (11:23) Yeah. Speaker 1 (11:24) At a different point in time. So that was like years later. It never happened every single day. I was living in Laguna. She was living in Los Angeles. What happened behind closed doors? I don't know. Speaker 2 (11:39) But I Speaker 1 (11:40) asked Ron Hardy, a good friend of Nicole's, and he did the documentary with us. Speaker 2 (11:45) And Speaker 1 (11:45) I asked Ron, I said, Ron, I said, did Nicole ever say anything to you? And he said, no. And I said, well. What do you think it is? And he kind of, he explained it. He says, because I think she was, she didn't want to tell her family and her friends because she did not want to put them into any danger. Speaker 2 (12:07) And Speaker 1 (12:08) I thought, wow. I said, you know what? That makes total sense because everything that I've learned looking back in hindsight is that they will threaten the children to take them away. If you leave me. They will threaten family members because they need to be in control. Speaker 2 (12:27) They Speaker 1 (12:27) will threaten and kill pets. Speaker 1 (12:30) It's happened before. I've heard many stories about that. And a lot of times the women and children or the women that I've spoken to over the years in shelters, what they