How to Master the Art of Persuasion & Scale Your Vision | Ed Mylett

THE ED MYLETT SHOW

In this special episode of The Ed Mylett Show, Ed Mylett hosts three industry titans—John Maxwell, Zoe Chance, and Mauricio Umansky—to discu

Key takeaways

• John Maxwell defines leadership fundamentally as influence: 'Leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less.'
• To increase personal influence, individuals must focus on intentionally adding value and serving others.

Main topics

• The importance of persuasion
• Leadership principles

Notable quotes

Leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less.

Conclusion

The episode serves as a masterclass in leveraging soft skills to scale

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:04) This is the End Mileage Show. Speaker 2 (0:08) Hey everyone, welcome to my weekend special. I hope you enjoy the show Be sure to follow the Ed Milet show on Apple and Spotify Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way now on with the show One of the questions I get asked the most often is about what skill do I think is the most important as an entrepreneur? That's a really difficult question But if I could go back and you could only give me one skill to begin with and I had to build from all of it I can tell you for sure what it would be for me and that would be the ability to influence So it's the ability to persuade people. Without that skill set, the vast majority of my wealth does not exist. If you can't persuade people, if you can't influence people to make decisions that are in their own best interest, but that also grow your business, your brand, your company, your net worth, you can't ever become successful. One thing that... Everybody I know that's a leader and everything they do can do is persuade people now I watch people do that in all different types of ways some do it through intimidation some through do it through force some do it through humor some do it through persuasive strategies transfer of energy you name it but all leaders can persuade, all successful people can get people to make decisions in their own best interest that also get them to participate with their company. It's the number one skill that I see most people not spending the most time on is their ability to communicate, their ability to persuade people. And because they're constantly trying to go to a different course or they think that somehow if their product is good enough or they get the right sales pitch that somehow they're going to win. But the fact of the matter is you've got to become a better persuader. I'm constantly personally working on that skill and refining it. My ability to persuade from the stage through the camera here to make to get you to make the decisions that are in your own best interest, to persuade you that I can help you to persuade my children. When I'm negotiating on buying a company or buying a car or buying a jet it's my ability to persuade people to make the decision that's in their own best interest to participate with me and so if I was a quarterback in football it's my ability to persuade the team to work the hardest to run the best routes to get open to give it all they've got head coaches in football school teachers their ability to persuade and influence pastors you name it personal trainer they've got to persuade people to do the exercise of it they're the expert so it's our ability constantly to influence and persuade people that I think is the number one skill in life. And so if that's the case, what are some of the keys in doing that? So number one thing as a business leader that you should be evaluating is are you constantly refining, constantly getting better, constantly making alterations, constantly being aware of how you can improve in all of these areas. The thing that happens when I say that to most people that are average, let me tell you what their response is. I already have that. Already got that down. I'm already persuasive I already can do that and even as I say that to people I hear people all the time say oh I'm already good at that Let me be very very clear with you as a friend if you were really good at that you'd be more wealthy You'd be happier. You'd have a bigger business. You'd have a better family life than you have. So it's your vast overestimation of your ability about that one skill set that is probably going to hold you back more than anything. As a friend, let me tell you, you're nowhere near as good as you think you are at that skill. And the fact that you think you're great at it may be your greatest detriment to moving forward in your life because you don't think there's this gap between where you should be and where you are that'll cause you to do the work to get there. And so I never overestimate my ability to... persuade I always think I can get better I always think I can grow and I know there are multiple areas and sectors in which we persuade people so I might be really good speaking from the stage but the question is how am I in front of 30,000 people 100 people how about one-on-one how about in my family how about to a group of three what about in a boardroom what about the white-collar people what about the blue-collar people what about in my personal life right what about getting people just to make their best effort what about in putting money somewhere and so there's Thousands of areas in which we persuade people persuade people to like you persuade people to laugh at your joke, right? So there's constantly when you buy something persuade them when you sell something persuade them persuade your children So it's your s it's your overestimation and thinking you're great at that that constantly holds you back You're nowhere near as good at that as you think you are and the fact that you think it is already an indication You're not very good at it. So you might be great in one area, but not great in the others. And so please Don't check the box and think you're outstanding at that. Because if someone who's spoken in front of millions of people on stages from 60,000 people to six people, who's made millions and hundreds of millions of dollars in business, traveled the world in multiple different businesses, in athletics, I've coached athletes, entertainers, politicians, business people one-on-one, and I coach in large groups. If I know I need to get better in those areas, I would submit to you that you probably do as well. Because I'm not as good as I could be or as good as... I should be in almost every area of persuasion having said that let's take the business context for a second one thing I want to challenge you to be as a leader of your business whether it's just your leader of one which is you as a salesperson or a leader of ten as a team or a company of 25,000 employees is you must become evangelical about your cause and your mission the greatest business people have an evangelical property about them they're evangelizing all the time they're propagating the strengths the benefits of their business of their mission of their cause one of the great evangelists of all time is Steve Jobs is a great book written by a guy named Guy Kawasaki many years ago called selling the dream And in that book, he talks about the way that Steve Jobs sold the dream of Apple. And he literally called him an evangelist for the cause. There's a great story in that book about Steve Jobs when he was recruiting. He knew he needed to have a CEO of his company. And he wanted to have the best. And at that time, there was a man named Scully who was the head of Pepsi. And Jobs was this young kid in his 20s trying to recruit this executive who had made millions of dollars. And he couldn't get him. And he couldn't get him. And he couldn't get him. And finally, he gets the voicemail back in those days, the answering machine, actually, of Scully. He says listen listen man when you're tired of selling sugar water to kids over there at Pepsi and you want to come change the world Frickin call me back and we'll do it together boom and he hangs up right he was evangelical to cause Sugar water and Pepsi changed the world at Apple right and Scully who's making millions of dollars He's CEO of one of the most powerful companies in the world looks to his wife and she says I think he's right We aren't changing the world and it was that one cause-oriented Evangelical phone call from Steve Jobs and it exuded out of his pores every stage speech He gave every one-on-one every board meeting when he'd meet with their software engineers when he'd meet with the programmers He was always evangelical internally and externally and built a culture of one of the greatest movements of all time in the history of business There's great lessons there about being evangelical the greatest presidential or political leaders have an evangelical property About them the greatest salespeople do the greatest dads the greatest pastors their evangelical aren't they? So you've got to become more of an evangelist for your cause and your mission number one number two You have to sell a big enough dream to your team to your company to your clients to the people around you that the dreams of everybody Associated with you can fit inside the one you're selling. It's got to be big. It's got to be bold It's got to be expanding number three. It's got to be repetitious You can't get tired of saying the same things over and over and over again. One of the deficiencies of leaders that are weak is they constantly think they have to say new things to old people. Creating new things to say to old people the best leaders say old things to new people They say the same things over and over again to more and more new people new teammates new employees new recruits new clients New speeches new groups, right? They say old things to new people They're repeating over and over the vision and the cause of their business of their movement. These are great communicators the next thing All great communicators understand whether it's words, physiology, the look you give somebody, or writing. Influence is energy. It's the transfer of energy. It's getting you to feel about my company, feel about my mission, feel about my product, feel about my cause, what I feel. They're conscious of transferring energy to people because that's what moves people. That's what gets them to act. It's not just the words. It's not just your face. It's not just how you're dressed. It's an energy transfer. There's a hook, by the way. You can't transfer to me that which you're not experiencing yourself. You have to physically be experiencing it in the moment. It can't just be the words you're reading from a sheet. You have to really believe it. One of the reasons a lot of salespeople struggle or recruiters struggle is they just don't believe enough. They don't spend enough time making the case like a lawyer litigating to themselves. About how powerful what they do is and the more and more you really believe you're a true believer You can evangelize your product you can evangelize your message So invest more time in your own belief in your research in your knowledge finding third-party articles magazines blogs things that reinforce Whatever it is you're doing that feeds your own belief that way you can give it to me You can't give it to me if you don't have it and so they don't spend enough time spend more time feeding your own belief And be conscious of the transfer of energy to another person. There's a great study out right now that I was just reading about bees And them deciding which flower to pollinate is based on the energy the flower puts off They sense the energy from the flower and they move towards that one deciding to pollinate that one Well, if you want more people to pollinate your business pollinate your life if you want to track the right relationship the right amount of money the right clients the right employees the right recruits the right Vendors the right support you got to be putting off that energy because people are going to pollinate it somewhere You want them pollinating with you, right? And that's an energy feeling they get from people The bottom line is people got to be when they get around you They got to feel something special about you special about where you're going special about your cause special about your mission That something special is happening something historic something big a big old dream In fact, one big enough that my dream can fit inside the one these people are selling me, right? And so this is the key of moving people. The number one skill, go all the way back to the beginning. My number one skill that if I could keep only one would be this right here the ability to persuade people in Multiple areas of my life. How do I get better at it transfer energy number one feed your belief number two number three Make sure that it's repetitious over and over again say old things to new people Right and you got to be evangelical and sell a big old dream The bottom line is that this is a process that never ends of growing us, of growing our ability to persuade people. One of the things about communicating as well is doing it with a lot of specificity. Great communicators, great influencers, great persuaders are very specific and very clear about what their message is. And so even communicating to yourself and leading yourself. I grew up walking this beach right here, this exact beach. And I didn't live like this, but I told my family someday, told myself someday, I'm gonna live on this beach. I didn't know who these people were that owned all these beach houses. I didn't know exactly how you got one, but I began to repetitiously transfer that energy to myself about my dream over and over again, literally thousands, if not millions of times. And now someday it happened. Now that day is here and I live on this beach as one of four homes that I own. And so that's how you communicate with yourself and others, that transfer of energy. I can tell you that in my own situation, I'm always trying to how do I evolve it? How do I modify it? How do I feed my own belief more? How do I sell it bigger? How do I back it up with more facts the best leaders sell a big old vision they tell a great story The best people I know are great storytellers. Remember this facts tell stories sell Most people make decisions emotionally from the story, they rationalize it logically with the facts. So make sure you're selling a big dream, a big story, and then you give people the facts. This is the way we begin to move people in our lives. This is the skill of entrepreneurs. This is the skill of building something big and building something small and building something permanent too, is your ability to persuade. Focus on your energy, focus on your belief level, and focus on refining your message. The last thing is this, say it faster and say it quicker. Less is more you don't have to tell them everything, you know leave a little bit to the imagination One thing that happens the longer and longer we're in business the longer and longer we're around the more and more we learn we feel compelled to tell someone everything we know about our product everything we know about the business and That's not how you energize people you give them just enough and then shut up My dad used to tell me when I was a kid when I'd be asking for money to take my girlfriend to the movies He'd say hey don't sell past the close Right. He had already agreed and I'd keep selling them. I'd keep selling them. And sometimes I'd lose them with this extra BS I'd be giving them. So I want to challenge you. Don't sell past the close. So of all things in business, right? Time management, goal setting, vision, identity, all those things we're going to talk about on this channel are very important. But if you can't communicate, if you can't persuade, you are toast. The last thing I would say to you, how do I get better? There's lots of books, lots of tapes, but it's really, for me, it's modeling. I learned to model certain people initially and then modify. Model and modify so I would model people not copy them But I would model certain people's styles one or two different people and then I'd modify it to fit my own personality Model and modify right don't try to create everything on your own and don't try to copy somebody else that's different than you You got to be you so model and modify The last thing I would tell you is to the extent that you can transfer this skill to other people will be to the extent that you can scale your business. So it's one thing to be able to persuade yourself and transfer energy. It's an entirely other thing to equip other people around you to do likewise. The best leaders are not just evangelical about their cause, can't just transfer energy. They have the ability to transfer that skill of transferring energy to other people. And then you begin to build your movement, whether that's one or two or 10 or 25,000. or millions and millions of people. Sometimes your clients can be your top evangelizers for you when they use your product. So it's your ability to transfer that skill. And you have to do that through repetition. The way to transfer the skill of energy to people is through repetition and role play. Repetition and role play. Far too many people just talk and teach their teams how to do things. They talk at them rather than work with them. The way you get me to do it is there's no substitute for experience. 100 hours in the classroom is worth one hour in the field. 100 hours of teaching is worth one hour of role play where we do it together. Getting them on the stage, getting them... When I started speaking, one of the great speakers that he was an older guy, so this is going to date him, but when I first started speaking... I got on the stage and I would open up for this one speaker and when I'd come off stage, he was really older guy, but he'd say, what was it like to play on stage with Elvis? Meaning he was the Elvis, right? But I got to know what it was like to be on the same stage with the Elvis of speaking at that time and in business too often We just talk at people and don't let them get on stage with you Elvis. There's not enough roleplay There's not enough engagement and so it's repetition over and over repetition is the mother of learning repetition is the mother of skill It's the mother of owning it over and over and over and over again until it becomes reflexive because when the words and the message and the energy becomes reflexive Then when you're under pressure, when you're stressed, when you're down, when the client's objecting, you reflexively respond with your habit. But if you don't have that habit, that reflex, you begin to respond and lose energy. And so the reason repetition matters is it allows your responses to be reflexive under pressure. And then the second thing is role play. There's no substitute for that experience of being on stage with Elvis. I say it, you say it. I say it, you say it. And it's not just the words, it's the feeling. It's the transfer. of energy, the number one skill of entrepreneurs and leaders of entrepreneurs is the ability to persuade. And hopefully these were some of the tips that you should be conscious of, of becoming world-class at it, knowing you'll never be world-class at it, knowing we can always get better. We can always stretch. We can always grow and improve our skills in multiple areas. Hope this helps you. Max out. Before we start the interview with my next guest, just want to remind you all that you can subscribe to the show on YouTube or follow the show on Apple or Spotify. We have all the links in our show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. Now on with the show. Speaker 3 (17:00) Welcome back to Max Outt, everybody. Speaker 2 (17:03) Today is... It's a real honor for me. I have a friend, but one of my true heroes in my life sitting to my side. It's Speaker 4 (17:09) a Speaker 2 (17:09) real Speaker 4 (17:10) honor for me, Ed. Thanks for letting me be a part of this. Speaker 2 (17:12) Thank you, John, so much. This is one of the few interviews I've even been a little bit nervous for. Oh, hey, listen. You're just dealing with an old man here. An old man. We're just going to talk about Speaker 4 (17:21) life and enjoy ourselves. Speaker 2 (17:22) This old man has sold 30 million books in his life. Plus, he's... Well, it's because Speaker 4 (17:27) I'm old. You Speaker 2 (17:28) have Speaker 4 (17:28) enough time. You can't sell 30 million for a young man. You understand? You've got to be old to do those things. Speaker 2 (17:33) You Speaker 4 (17:33) also Speaker 2 (17:33) can't sell 30 million books unless they're great. And so he sold 30 million books, everybody. This is somebody who's trained leaders on every Speaker 4 (17:39) country. Every country. Every country in the Speaker 2 (17:42) world. He's won numerous awards. He is known as the expert on leadership in the business world. There's multiple publications that have named him as such. And he's got a new book coming out called Leader Shift that we're going to talk about today as well. But I just cannot tell you what a thrill it is for me to have you here today, John. So thank you. Thank you. And it's Speaker 4 (18:00) my honor. Thank you. Speaker 2 (18:02) So I think that first the beginning place is I think most people don't see themselves as a leader just that in and of itself I think most people don't see themselves that way that it's some mystical role in life. What would you say to somebody who says I just don't know that I am a leader or could be a leader? Well everybody's a leader because Speaker 4 (18:22) leadership is influence. That's what it is. And that has been, that definition of leadership has served me so well for so many years. It's in fact in my book, The Try and Win Irrefutable Laws of Leadership, there's the law. Great book. You know, leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less. So when somebody says they're not a leader, I say, well, let me ask you a question. Do you influence anybody? Sure. Speaker 3 (18:44) And Speaker 4 (18:45) almost always, almost. I've had a couple maybe. I'm not sure. But almost always I'll say, well, yeah, I mean, you have children. Okay, okay. You got your family, you know. So, yes. Now, it may be a little influence. It may be eight, ten people. It may not be. But I look at them and say, okay, if you influence eight or ten people, you are a leader. See, what people think is they've got to have some kind of a title or position. to be a leader. And so they say, well, I don't have a leadership position, so I'm not a leader. Well, you and I both know the position doesn't make you a leader anyway. It gives you a chance to practice leadership, but it doesn't make you a leader. So what I tell people is this, leadership is influence. So how do I increase my influence? Because if I influence 10 and next month I influence 20, wow, I've doubled my leadership influence. So how do I do that? And it's a very simple answer. To increase your influence, you have to intentionally add value to people. This is where it all begins. So, Ed, let's say that I want to have increased influence with you. Well, my first question isn't, boy, I hope that Ed will follow me. The first question is, how can I serve you? What what can I do to add value to you? So I'm gonna ask you, you know, how can I serve you? What can I do to help you? In fact, what's interesting before we had this interview? I mean, we're cracking me up. We're kind of trying to out serve each other. It was a beautiful thing because all we were really doing is I'm trying to help you correct and here's what I know if I Sincerely add value to you My influence will increase with you. That's a fact. So well, we don't need to make leadership complicated Just go out and intentionally add value to people and your influence pool begins to expand. Speaker 1 (20:26) And Speaker 4 (20:27) after a while, I'm becoming quite a leader. So leadership isn't title, position. It's all about... adding value and serving and making a difference in other people's lives. Speaker 2 (20:38) In order to do that, a lot of people are going to build an organization, build a team, they'll be in some sort of an environment like that. Nobody wins alone, it seems like in life. That's a fact. I was listening to the story you were telling, and I'd like you to share it about, you know, there's the analogy of getting people in the right seats on the bus, but you have this wonderful story about when you played basketball. About at the end of practice your coach would do something very scrimmage good. This is absolutely illustrates Speaker 4 (21:03) this Speaker 2 (21:04) point So because of you don't mind saying that Speaker 4 (21:05) no, it's a beautiful point He would he would have the first team the better players five players play the second team And the only thing that he would do is he would put we who were on the first team out of position And he always stuck me I was I was a number two guard, but he always stuck me under the basket guarding a guy named Doug Roth that was six foot eight. Okay? And he'd put maybe our center out there with the point guard. Well, he's put us out of position and they said, now stay in your position and play to 20. Well, what would happen is the first team would always lose. And he'd sit us back down and say, now, did you lose because of talent? No. Did you lose? No, no. You lost for one reason. You were out of position. And remember this, whenever you're out of position, you're going to lose. Well, what they did is, I mean, I'm guarding a six foot eight guy. They just throw a high pass to him. He's just dropping that ball over me the whole time. And so it was a great teaching for me that no matter how gifted you are, no matter how committed you are, if you're out of position, you're not going to be successful. That's why everybody needs to find their sweet spot. Speaker 2 (22:12) You Speaker 4 (22:12) know, what do I really do well? And on that, there's a point that I really want to make, and that is, I tell people, if you want to be highly successful, you've got to get into what I call the top 5%. Speaker 2 (22:23) So Speaker 4 (22:25) you've got 100 people here in whatever chosen profession you've got. You've got to be in the top 5. You've got to get there. And you can only get to the top 5 if you're in your sweet spot. You can't get to the top five working on weaknesses. You can't get to the top five if I'm not in the area of my giftedness. So you've got to find out what you're good at because that'll give you, then if you're committed and if you've got a good strategy and all this other, you've got a good team around you, then that'll allow you to get in that top five. And once you're in that top 5%, you're in good shape. You're going to do very well. And I tell them, it doesn't matter what your profession is, you've got to get in the top 5 % and you can only get in the top 5 % if you're in your position, if you're in your sweet spot, if you're in your gift spot. Is there any Speaker 2 (23:07) technique, strategy, thought you have in order to identify what those sweet spots are for you? Oh Speaker 4 (23:12) yeah, I'll trial and error. I mean, you know, when I started, okay, let's go to my, I started off as a pastor. Speaker 2 (23:18) And Speaker 4 (23:18) so, and I had a counseling degree. So now I'm counseling people. Well, it takes me about six months to realize I'm not any good at that. I'm not. It's not my gift. I mean,