Episode #165: Seriously, You Need to STOP Taking Ashwagandha!! Featuring Lucas Aoun
The Dylan Gemelli Podcast
In this episode of The Dylan Gemelli Podcast, host Dylan Gemelli sits down with Lucas Aoun, a leading Australian biohacker, naturopath, and s
Key takeaways
- Ashwagandha is overused and potentially harmful for many people, especially without proper context or dosage control.
- Most supplement formulas are poorly designed with proprietary blends and inadequate dosing.
Main topics
- The dangers of ashwagandha misuse
- Poor formulation practices in the supplement industry
Notable quotes
"The one ingredient that I think most people should be avoiding and staying away from is ashwagandha."
"Most people don't need MORE supplements. They need to stop taking the WRONG ones."
Conclusion
Lucas Aoun challenges listeners to rethink their supplement use by prioritizing
Transcript preview
Speaker 1 (0:00) The one ingredient that I think most people should be avoiding and staying away from is ashwagandha. The testosterone boosting market is full of really crappy formulas, really poorly dosed ingredients, proprietary blends. You can tell that the manufacturer has not spent time thinking through each ingredient and why it's in there. Speaker 2 (0:18) I lived in the low-fat diet world, I told you that, for so many years and it made me one of the most miserable human beings alive. On Speaker 1 (0:25) Google, it's actually hard for people to find negative effects of canola oil. Have you noticed how they censor that shit? Speaker 2 (0:33) As a person that's around supplements as much as you've been, if you had three that you would say that you would always go to first, what would your top three staples be? Speaker 1 (0:43) One of my staple ingredients is actually... Speaker 2 (0:46) Here's an interesting question. How much do you actually know about the way your everyday habits are supporting how you age? We hear so much about longevity right now. Sleep. protein, strength training, nutrition, all of these things matter, but there's another layer that doesn't get nearly as much attention as it should. What's happening inside your cells? Your mitochondria produce the cellular energy that your body relies upon every day, and mitochondrial dysfunction, that's considered a central hallmark of aging. And that's why I've been so interested in the work Timeline does with MitoPure. MitoPure is their pure and patented form of urolithin A. It supports mitochondrial function and cellular renewal by activating mitophagy, your body's natural process for clearing out damaged mitochondria. But rather than just tell you about it, Timeline wants you to think about your own longevity habits. So they've created a longevity quiz that takes just a few minutes and it looks at some of the everyday habits that can support healthy aging. And the best part? If you complete the quiz, Timeline will send you a free sample of might appear gummies. So take the quiz, learn a little bit more about how you're supporting the way you age and try might appear for yourself. Go to timeline.com slash gemelli to take the longevity quiz and get your free gummies. That's timeline.com slash gemelli. All right, everybody, welcome back to the Dylan Gemelli podcast. I figured I better hit play here and get going because we had a podcast before the podcast. Speaker 2 (2:16) My guest is obviously a good friend. We enjoy talking about every single aspect of really health and wellness. He's got specific niches and so do I, but we kind of go all over the place. And funny story, I was actually on Dave Asprey's podcast and then his production person reached out to me because my guest wanted to talk to me and I said, hell yeah, get me on the phone with him. Turned out to be a really good friendship, and I'm always so blessed to meet people like my guest today. But he's Australia's leading biohacker. He's a TEDx speaker, and he's the founder of In Before You and Boost Your Biology. He's a wonderful naturopath. He has an exercise science background, and he's recognized globally. for translating cutting-edge research into real-world performance protocols. And he's also a trusted supplement formulator. I mean, he does everything. So without further ado, my friends, Lucas Owen. Speaker 1 (3:17) Dylan, thanks for having me, man. And I'm looking forward to having a fruitful conversation today. Speaker 2 (3:22) Yeah, man, I'm excited. Thank you for the patience. I know that with the scheduling, I'm all over the place, but you've been super gracious. And I always, always am humbled by the fact that people are accommodating and want to talk to me. So I'm looking forward to talking to you about many different aspects of things that you discuss and cover. Speaker 2 (3:43) You and I see eye to eye on a lot of things, which I think this is going to be intriguing. And we kind of get into the same kinds of topics. But I do want to talk to you about different things that you run into since you're in a different country and some of the similarities and differences and just some of your ideologies in comparison to other people. So first and foremost. As a naturopath, can you explain what that means, what being a naturopath is and how that's differentiating from a quote unquote conventional doctor? Speaker 1 (4:18) Sure. Yeah. So in Australia, to become a qualified naturopath, we have to do a four year Bachelor of Health Science degree. So that's what I did. And I tried to overload subjects to get it done quicker, but they wouldn't allow that. But basically a naturopath is kind of like a nutritionist plus a herbalist combined. So we're blending both and we're really focused on addressing the root cause of disease and illness. And I guess naturopaths are really well known for their expertise around gut health and microbiome related issues. They love looking at poops, poop charts and all that. Speaker 1 (5:03) So naturopaths are very holistic in their perspective around health. And Dylan, I had the choice of either going down to become a pharmacist like my dad. My father owned a pharmacy here in Australia, did really well, very happy for him. But I decided to go down a different path and become a naturopath because I wanted to, I could always see myself like formulating supplements in the future. So I thought I can do that with a naturopathy degree and that's where we are today. Speaker 2 (5:37) Wow. Very cool. Okay. Awesome. So your dad has that kind of background. Speaker 1 (5:43) Yeah. So I was actually funny, funny story. I used to sort out the medication, the supplements and medications in the garage, in the back of the pharmacy. And he used to say, if there's any, any sort of supplement or thing you want to take home, you can just grab it. You know, I could just take it home when I was, this is when I was really young. And then I realized. A lot of the stuff that I was grabbing off the shelf was actually like out of date. It was actually not beneficial. Like for example, fish oil supplements, you know, obviously they can become rancid if they're not stored properly. And so like I was grabbing them, trialing them, experimenting, and I was playing with probiotics. I was playing around. you know, vitamin D, B vitamins. But at the same time that I was experimenting, every time I'd rock up to do a shift in the pharmacy, I was just researching the crap out of every single ingredient. So I just started to become obsessed with each ingredient, mechanisms, how they work, the science behind them. This is way before AI was a big thing, you know. So I was just like a little geek in the pharmacy, just researching ingredients. Speaker 2 (6:54) Would you say that you kind of got your background and understanding from kind of being self-taught? Speaker 1 (7:00) Pretty much, man. Yeah. I mean, like a lot of the stuff that I learned at university was just more. Speaker 1 (7:09) It was kind of like a lot of it was outdated and I just needed to do my own research, man, because class for me was too slow. Things were moving way too slow and I was getting really bored. I was getting irritable. I'd stay back after class and just research things and create Instagram posts. And then, yeah, I just pretty much just fell in love with... Kind of like being a voice for the supplement space and showcasing new research. Speaker 2 (7:41) So when did you decide or start looking into becoming a formulator and what was it? Because, you know, a lot of guys that I have been around and myself included, when I was working in that side of the space, it was because I felt like there's so many ingredients that are misleading or bad formulas. And I see the same old, same old, same old. What was it for you that made you want to do that? And when did that kind of happen in this journey? Speaker 1 (8:08) It's actually really a good question, Dylan, because many, many years ago, there was a website called Rape. I think it was called ratemystack.com. Yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah. I do. Speaker 2 (8:20) I Speaker 1 (8:20) can't believe you remember that. Speaker 1 (8:24) Like none of my friends in Australia would even know what I'm talking about. Bro, the Speaker 2 (8:28) shit that I got into, it's just I'm not even going to go there. Speaker 1 (8:36) Well, basically, yeah. So I was obviously on that website and I was – for the audience listening in, Rate My Stack was basically you submit your hypothetical supplement cocktail, like your supplement stack. with your ingredients and the dosages. And then every week I think people would upvote or downvote or, you know, would bump it and recommend it. And many, many times in a row, I kept on like winning the, like I always ranked number one. And I'm like, I think people really love my shit. Like they really love the way that I formulate. So I'm like, I always, and then. Then from there, I actually got involved in Australia's very first nootropic startup. It was a company that basically was selling nootropics way before anyone else was in Australia. And when I got involved in that company, the owner of the company gave me the privilege and said, we want you to formulate our next product. And I'm like, this is sick. I get a chance to actually showcase my expertise. Speaker 1 (9:45) And then just from there, I'm like, in five to 10 years from now, I want to have my own internationally renowned supplement company. And that's where in before my supplement brand was born. Speaker 2 (9:58) Okay. So what is your supplement brand focus or main point of focus on? Do you have a specific demographic or is it kind of a wide variety? Speaker 1 (10:08) Well, great question. So the brand name InBefor, actually, have you seen that term used in forums like InBefor somebody enters the chat? So the whole premise behind InBefor is predicting the market before it's happened. So like releasing ingredients before it's become super trendy. So like ahead of the curve sort of thing. That's why the name In Before. As far as our demographic, well, I was just telling you now that before this was that I'm releasing a testosterone formulation to serve my current audience because they have told me they want a testosterone support. product. And they've given me that task because they know that I've just been talking about testosterone optimization for years. And so that product is most likely going to be serving men. But you mentioned just before that it could be a good product for women as well that have low testosterone. Speaker 2 (11:13) Yeah. So doing that, you have a lot to overcome because you have a lot of years of Let's just call it what it is, dog shit testosterone boosters. So I know for sure knowing you that you're not going to do that unless you have some really, really strong evidence on this working. You don't necessarily have to get into the ingredient makeup yet if you don't want to. If you do, great. But why do you feel different about doing this? Because it is, I mean, I've been on bodybuilding forums and working with bodybuilders since 2011. And I know the kind of things that people say and that you run into, and some of it, fair play, because I've seen some pretty rough ingredient makeups. But like I said, I trust in you. So if you want to get into that a little bit, please do explain. It is a polarizing type of product. Speaker 1 (12:04) Man, the testosterone boosting market is full of literally, like you said, really crappy formulas, really poorly dosed ingredients. proprietary blends. You can tell that the manufacturer or the creator of the product has not spent time thinking through each ingredient and why it's in there. They've just been a lazy ass and they've just basically, you know, they've copied what the other company is doing. They're just throwing in some like maca powder or diaspatic acid or maybe a little bit of shilajit and fenugreek. Look. The product that I formulated, Dylan, it's called Peak Tea. Now, I have eight ingredients in the product. And over the years, I've had the privilege of actually working with hundreds of guys around the world. And I've actually seen before and after blood work where I've actually prescribed certain ingredients. And over time, I've built a database understanding what effect they're having on their... hormonal parameters and not just testosterone by the way i'm looking at dht i'm looking at estrogen i'm looking at prolactin i'm looking at cortisol because it's the whole picture you obviously understand that it's not just about testosterone so what i've done with the stack is i ended up curating a short list of like eight ingredients and these eight ingredients are ingredients that i've prescribed and have seen benefit and most importantly, lack major side effects. Because that's the problem with a lot of the commonly known testosterone boosting ingredients. One of them, ashwagandha, which I've spoken about before, has some nasty side effects such as suppressing emotional pleasure response and emotions and making men feel numb. So pretty much my rationale for the product was, I want to build a product that I know when guys do blood work pre and post, they're going to see a meaningful increase in free testosterone and total testosterone. Speaker 2 (14:10) The Speaker 1 (14:11) second thing is I wanted to create a product where I know the ingredients will make a guy subjectively feel like feel the dopaminergic, the dopamine kick that they're looking for from a test booster, which is why a lot of guys want a test booster in the first place is for motivation and drive and confidence. Testosterone does all three. So there's a couple of ingredients that I've included. One of them is a South American herb called miropuama, which has been used as an aphrodisiac for many, many years. That hits the dopamine system, and I use that instead of mucuna. Mucuna is an L-dopa precursor. But then the other ingredients that I've included, so we've got boron at 10 milligrams, which obviously helps to lower SHBG. That's a really decent ingredient. Tonka dali, which is another one that a lot of guys are using as part of a PCT and helps with increasing peripheral testosterone production. Then I've got one from traditional Chinese medicine, which has been used for a long, long time called pine pollen. So pine pollen is Mother Nature's most potent source of phytoandrogens, which can bump out and displace BPA and plastics. So that's a really big ingredient that can help with that. And then I've got two trademarked ingredients that actually have multiple human clinical studies demonstrating an increase in free testosterone and total testosterone. And they are Test Factor and Testnor. So those two ingredients, if people research them, one of them, testinor, is a pomegranate and cacao combination. And the second one is mangiferra indica and Indian globe thistle. And those two ingredients stacked together have four human clinical studies demonstrating improvements in male aging symptoms as well. Speaker 2 (16:14) Nice. That's a good makeup. And people that are listening, the, you know, pomegranates got health or heart health benefits. And if you don't understand like the boron and that's, I know a decent testosterone booster when that's included, because then there's the understanding that if SHBG is high, your test is going to be low. So we're at least addressing that to help boost it. Right. Speaker 1 (16:36) Yeah. Speaker 2 (16:37) So, and it needs a hero ingredient, which you have to. which is, you know, nice because otherwise it's a combination of fenya Greek and some other bullshit that doesn't do anything. And Tomcat at least actually shown to be effective. It is. Speaker 2 (16:56) It got some recognition, you know, like seven, eight years ago, but it doesn't seem like it got used prevalently enough and maybe it costs more. I don't know because that factors into a lot, but it sounds like you covered the basis pretty well there. And there's other benefits involved, which I like. Speaker 1 (17:14) Well, exactly right, man.