Addicted to VIOLENCE: 'My Final Interview' | Paul Venis

The Dozen with Liam Tuffs

Undefeated K1 champion Paul Venis shares his harrowing journey from a life of street violence and crack addiction to finding redemption thro

Key takeaways

• Paul Venis transitioned from being a feared street fighter in Middlesbrough to a professional K1 kickboxing champion.
• He describes the intense Danny Christie vs. Decca Heggie bare-knuckle fight where he served as the fair play man.

Main topics

• Combat sports and K1 kickboxing
• Addiction recovery and sobriety

Notable quotes

I'm not my thinking. I am not my head.

Conclusion

A powerful testament to the possibility of transformation through disc

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) What does it take to be a dangerous man? They're Speaker 2 (0:02) trained, disciplined, powerful. They can walk to a cage or a ring and put their life on the line and that's danger. There's never a fight I've never went into that I've not been absolutely bricking it. Keep out of that fear because it'll keep you dangerous. I'm not wired up right. I was born different. If you ask me now, when was the last time you thought about using? I couldn't tell you when. Like I tell you, the last time I felt like killing myself. Speaker 1 (0:20) How recent was that? Speaker 2 (0:21) Six days ago. Is Speaker 1 (0:21) Decahegy the demon that everyone portrays him to be? Speaker 2 (0:24) He's Speaker 1 (0:24) a Speaker 2 (0:24) tough-ass bastard, I give him that. 100 million percent, he's a Roman. The size difference alone was madness. It was only meant to be me and Dougie there, and I looked at Danny and I was like, what do you want Speaker 1 (0:32) to Speaker 2 (0:32) do? And he just went, boom, in that ring, let's go. Speaker 1 (0:34) Blood Speaker 2 (0:34) was splattering all over me. I had blood in my mouth, blood in my face, all in my watch. It was everywhere. One Speaker 1 (0:39) of them lads could have died that day. Speaker 2 (0:41) 100%. If anything ever went off, I'd have put my life on the line to protect him. I'd have died with him. If I didn't turn around and assault, it probably would have come through my chest. Speaker 1 (0:47) You've got to be some scumbag to do that. Speaker 2 (0:49) I would absolutely end someone's life for that. It was that violent. I had to fight. I didn't give a shit who I was hitting, who I was fighting, what his name was. I just wanted to fight. It was just in me. Speaker 1 (0:59) Did it ever cross your mind that you might kill someone one day? Speaker 1 (1:06) Change are proudly sponsoring the channel. They're the UK's number one e-commerce mentoring program, taking you step-by-step through building your own business with no experience needed. I've seen their members make life-changing money and free up real time to spend with their families. Success doesn't happen overnight. You've got to put the work in. The more you put in, the more you get out. What really stands out is their community. It's rampant with like-minded people who genuinely support each other. You get one-on-one training, online courses, and group seminars so you're never left on your own. If you're serious about building something new for yourself, message Ryan on Instagram at Ryan JB. Paul, thank you for coming on, mate. Long time coming. And I know your story. I've watched you on other podcasts numerous times. And I think because you're a household name, I think a lot of people will already know your story. And if not, we can direct them there. But I just want to get under the bonnet of other stuff that nobody has really delved into. So let me start with you've spent your life being wrapped around many, many dangerous men. You've been... called a dangerous man yourself, Speaker 2 (2:13) I Speaker 1 (2:14) wouldn't argue that either. What makes and what does it take to be a dangerous man, would you say? Speaker 2 (2:21) The way I look at it now is different to how I would have looked at it when I was getting called a dangerous man back in the day, you know, for being tough or having a reputation or, you know, fearless, you know, all that stuff. You know, what makes a dangerous man back then is different to what I think makes a dangerous man now. You know, it's funny because... I try and do a bit of social media myself and I'll do a live on TikTok or I'll try and carry a message on. I'm doing my lives and I'm doing my talks and stuff and someone will ask me a question, which I think is stupid, but I get why they ask it. You know, do you think you would have beat Lee Duffy if he was still alive or do you think you could beat Lee Duffy in his prime or Brian Cockrell in his prime? You know, these other North East household names that are tough. Speaker 1 (3:00) Yeah. You Speaker 2 (3:01) know, and my mind first goes, why are you asking such a stupid question? But... I'm in a position to be asked that question. I get why I'm asked that question. Speaker 1 (3:08) People are interested. Of course they are. And they're intrigued by extremely tough men. Speaker 2 (3:13) Yeah, of course they are. And I get why they ask the question as daft as I think it is today. I don't think it was daft to be asked it, like because of who I was and what I'd become 20, 25 years ago, you know, the life that I led. You know, so I suppose the answer to it is, Speaker 2 (3:32) Today, for me, the most dangerous men I've ever met are the dangerous men in my life or the dangerous men that I seek inspiration from, not just because they're dangerous, but because they're trained, they're disciplined, you know, they're powerful, you know, they're emotional, they're straight talking, you know, they can make that walk. You know, they can sign a contract. You Speaker 1 (3:55) know, Speaker 2 (3:56) they can walk to a cage or a ring and put their life on the line. And, you know, that for me is the most dangerous man. That's danger. Does Speaker 1 (4:04) anyone come to the forefront of your mind when you think of a dangerous man? Speaker 2 (4:07) Yeah. I've mentioned this kid on a podcast before. You know, when I thought I was dangerous back in the day, when I thought my reputation and ego meant everything to me, I know now it's just fantasy. It's not real. You know, that person that I was was more bothered about reputation and ego and fear. You know, I know that was just a, it was just a fantasy. It wasn't real. You know, but I remember getting out of prison and trying to turn my back on that life and trying to become something better. You know, I walked into a fighting gym. It was called Impact Martial Arts. And it wasn't in Middlesbrough when I went to prison. But when I got out, it was there. And I remember walking into this gym and it was people who I knew. You know, We were running this gym, you know, family friends and people have, we'd had ties to our social set. I knew him. And I says, oh, I want to join. And they were like, no problem. You can come and train Paul. Stay out of trouble. See that sign at the front of that door there. No egos. Leave your ego at the door. I went, yeah, he went, you can come. You're more than welcome in here. You leave that at the door. No one cares who you are. No one cares what you do. You be a good lad. You can come and train. He said, I'll tell you what, you can train for free. And I was like, all right, sound. There was this kid called Leaf, Leaf Taggart. I'm not kidding you. He can walk up to me. Hey Speaker 1 (5:19) mate, you all right? Speaker 2 (5:21) Dead squeaky. Had an air band in. Looked soft as shite. Soft as shite. And he went, you Paul Venice? I went, yeah. He went, would you like to take the leg kicks? I went. phew should be sound he went wallop oh you twat and that was my introduction to K1 kickboxing you know that was my introduction to combat sports and this kid just turned around walked off and laughed you know and I instantly become obsessed with this fight world and how he was carrying himself how I how I seen him when he first approached me to be nothing. And Speaker 1 (5:55) if no one's seen your legs in the flesh, I can confirm that they're quite the legs. And Speaker 2 (6:00) that was my introduction to true arts of toughness, of fighting. Hard Speaker 1 (6:07) men. Yes. Speaker 2 (6:08) And this kid had an air band on. He talked very squeaky. You know, it didn't look much. Speaker 1 (6:13) He lulled you in, didn't he, to a full sense of security? Speaker 2 (6:16) Yeah. I become obsessed with him. You know, I asked him, teach me. And I found out that this kid was K1 Muay Thai world champion. You know, he was one of the best of the best. He was unbelievable around our area. You know, this kid's still in my life. He actually works at my gym. He's actually the main coach at my gym now. Speaker 1 (6:30) It's a shame the old school, what we'd consider dangerous men, that legacy hasn't continued. Now dangerous men, they can look. Like librarians, but if they've got that mentality, nothing to lose. Nowadays, they're throwing acid in people's faces, sticking knives in you. Does the need to be seen as tough, would you say that is it confidence or is it insecurity? Speaker 2 (6:57) Insecurity. For me, it was insecurity. For me, I was a very insecure kid growing up. I was self-aware, low self-esteem. I was aware I had two different coloured eyes. I was aware I was overweight. I was ginger. I was picked on as a kid. All that usual lovely little stuff that comes with suffering and becoming insecure. So when the tables had turned for me, where I took enough shit, I'd had enough taking shit, the tables had turned. I become very insecure to the point where I had to be violent, had to be heard, I had to be the loudest in the room. I had to, you know, I was uncomfortable when someone wasn't telling me how hard I was or how fantastic I was, you know. So I think the needs of being tough on them streets and being that person on them streets, the baddest man on the streets or the baddest man in the town, it comes from being insecure. Speaker 1 (7:43) Where you're from is a rough area, isn't it? Speaker 2 (7:44) Middlesbrough now is probably the worst, well, statistically speaking, is the worst place to live outside of London, in the whole of the UK. Speaker 1 (7:49) So you kind of, you've got to be tough, haven't you? Yeah. Speaker 2 (7:52) We've all had the names. We've seen them across social media. We know the stories, you know, from Middlesbrough was a breeding ground for tough fighting men. Fisted cuffs, drink and be the next day. Middlesbrough's not that no more. You know, I don't think any town's that no more either. You've just touched on it now. One of the reasons what frightens me after death now of falling back into that lifestyle is... 10 stone, 11 stone, wringing wet lads now, targeting your missus and kids, you know, targeting your house, you know, sitting in bushes for three or four days waiting to stab you in Speaker 1 (8:19) the Speaker 2 (8:19) back. That's perceived as game. That's perceived as tough now. That's where people are getting respect from. Oh, I see him over there. He's game. He's tough. And I'm looking at him thinking, he's a shithouse, man. He's a coward. He's carrying a knife. And the reason why they've got to do this is because they are that size and they can fight. I get it. But that's the world we live in today and I've accepted that. Hence the reason why I'm not involved in any of that shit no more because it frightens me half to death. It really does. Speaker 1 (8:45) It is the world we live in and it's bizarre because a lot of these atrocious attacks that get carried out, they're not really for much of a reason. I'd understand if somebody had done something to your mother or you found out that somebody had sexually assaulted your sister, then by all means. Speaker 1 (9:03) All bets are off. If the police can't deal with it, then you deal with it yourself. But I'm just seeing far too many people, as you probably do, just being severely injured, sometimes disfigured for life, over being friends with the wrong person, wrong postcode, or you owe somebody 25 quid for a bag of weed. It's like, shit, have we really come to this stage now where we're willing to kill people for nothing? It's like, where's the fear of consequence, like jail? And how long have you been out of jail for? Speaker 2 (9:32) I've been out of jail now for 16 years, 15, 16 years. Oh, good. And Speaker 1 (9:36) never gone back. And how did you go from, so you went from being bullied at school to then becoming one of the most feared people in your area. What was the switch? What was the moment that made you think, fuck this, I'm going to lean into being a tough guy? Speaker 2 (9:51) I said it on a load of podcasts, and I don't mind saying it, but before I do say it. You know, sometimes when I watch my podcast back, or I hear what I say, sometimes I sound like I'm glorifying it and I never want to come across like that. But the thing is with me now is it's a part of my story. It is what it is. You know, there was a tough guy down our way called Lee Duffy and every youngster wanted to be the next Lee Duffy. You know, when I listen to the stories of Lee being bullied as a kid and being picked on and, you know, being really badly picked on. And then all of a sudden, turning the tables at 16, 17, 18 and becoming the main man of Middlesbrough. Like running the doors, walking around, strutting his stuff, filling everyone in. That was intriguing to me. You know, I latched onto that story like many, many kids did in our area. Speaker 1 (10:35) How many years older was Lee Duffy? He Speaker 2 (10:37) died when I was four. I never really met him. I mean, I met him when I was a kid, but of course I met him. But me mother and father were very close with him. You know, we were all from a... there's an estate in Middlesbrough called Southbank. And it's like, that's the main roughest estate in Southbank and Grange Town are the roughest estates in Middlesbrough. And that's where Lee was from. That's where I'm from. That's where I was born. That's where my mother and father were born. Speaker 1 (10:59) You know, Speaker 2 (11:00) so when we, and I was raised around all this, you know, my mum was a tough girl. You know, she was, not a saint, you know, my old mum was a doorman. So they were all raised tough, like tough. I was well loved. Tough family. Yeah. And when I was growing up, getting bullied and getting picked on, you know, Speaker 2 (11:18) me and my mother and father would tell me the stories of Lee and like this, my uncles and, you know, my dad's friends and stuff like that. Cause I was always around them would tell the story. Don't worry son, I know I was getting picked on bad. Don't worry son, look what happened to Lee. He did this, he did that. And I was like, and Speaker 1 (11:32) I ran with it. That makes sense. Yeah. If I become this person, the bullying stops. When Speaker 2 (11:37) you get to 10, 11, 12, you start to realise, actually I'm bigger than everyone here. Speaker 1 (11:40) Yeah. Do Speaker 2 (11:41) you know what I mean? Like I'm the biggest kid here. What am I doing here? How Speaker 1 (11:43) violent were you on the street? Speaker 2 (11:44) Violent. Yeah, violent. Very Speaker 1 (11:46) violent? Very, very Speaker 2 (11:47) violent, yeah. The only thing I never did was stab or shoot anyone or anything like that. Towards the end of my drug addiction days, I started to arm myself, but that was only because I'd become frail, Speaker 1 (11:58) because Speaker 2 (11:58) I'd become what I'd become, which is out and out crackhead. But the leading up to building that reputation and being 18 and 19 and being... the next Lee Duffy because that's what I was. Speaker 1 (12:09) You know, Speaker 2 (12:10) everybody knew my name, everybody knew who I was. I was the main fighter in Middlesbrough on the streets wise. Speaker 2 (12:18) Yeah, it was violence. You know, if I was in a house party or in a nightclub and someone said, you see him over there, he can have a fight, I would instantly be threatened and I would walk over and just smack him or put it on him or we'd have a fight. Do you know what I mean? It was that violence. I had to fight. I had no fear. I didn't think about any consequences. I didn't give a shit who I was hitting, who I was fighting, what his name was. I just wanted to fight. It was just in me. Speaker 1 (12:43) And how badly would you bash him up? Speaker 2 (12:45) Do Speaker 1 (12:45) you Speaker 2 (12:45) know what? It's funny because... I still had morals, Queensbury rules, stand and bang and all that stuff. That was, I loved all that. You know, that was how I was, do you know what I mean? But I mean, I was badly beating people up, like, do you know what I mean? Speaker 1 (13:00) Did you find that there was a bit of bullying you creeping in? Speaker 2 (13:03) 100%. That there was my mindset. That was me. I've been bullied for years, so I'll do the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of Speaker 1 (13:08) course, yeah. Why Speaker 2 (13:09) wouldn't Speaker 1 (13:10) I Speaker 2 (13:10) be? You know, I used it to my advantage, you know, becoming a criminal. you know, bullies thrive, you know, in the criminal world, in the underground world, in the drug world. You know, in them days when not many people were carrying knives and guns and just trying to be tough and earn money, you've been the biggest and baddest. You earned the most money, you had most control. And Speaker 1 (13:34) being Paul Venice, the hard man for so many years, was it... Was it exhausting or was it exciting? Speaker 2 (13:44) Exciting until you become exhausted. Because Speaker 1 (13:47) people have an expectancy of you consistently. I Speaker 2 (13:50) had an expectancy of myself, you know, and it quickly ran short because, you know, I was well loved. I had a mother and father who loved me. You know, I had a good heart. I wasn't a bad man. I wasn't a bad person. I was just, just... molded into this person that I'd become that I never liked looking back I wasn't comfortable being this person I never liked what was looking back in the mirror you know it was only you know it quickly come to an end when I started to realise you know the guilt and shame and who I was and what I was doing the innocent people I was hurting you know robbing him doing this beating him up for this you know it was it took a fucking toll on me Speaker 1 (14:31) what were you doing taxing drug dealers I was Speaker 2 (14:32) taxing I was robbing I was In the end, I was an innocent businessman, do you know what I mean? Extorting them and doing all that stuff. I was being used to the best of my ability of other people making decent money, but it was really taking a toll on me to the point where I was shoveling so much cocaine up my nose, so much crack down my throat to try and numb that pain and that guilt and that shame because I was always a good lad, Liam. I knew I was. You Speaker 1 (14:58) just lost sense of reality. I Speaker 2 (15:00) was just... smoking and sniffing them emotions away. Speaker 1 (15:05) And I've seen that pipe change a lot of people. Oh, yeah. Where they become somebody completely different. Yeah. I don't even recognise you. Speaker 2 (15:11) That's what happened to me. I spent five years on it, you know, and I started robbing shops. I started baggling, you know, robbing my own mother and father, stealing off my own kids, you know, stole off my own wife. Speaker 1 (15:22) Yeah, that's rock bottom. The only way is up from there. And all these people that you were severely hurting, did it ever cross your mind that you might kill someone one day? Speaker 2 (15:30) Yeah. 100%. I think I kind of, I got to the point where I wanted to be locked away forever or I wanted to end my own life, do you know what I mean? That was the position that I got to. The last year