Shawn Ryan: There's A Battle For Your Soul, It's Happening Right Now

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett

Former Navy SEAL and CIA contractor Shawn Ryan discusses his transition from high-stakes covert operations to building a massive independent podcasting

Key takeaways

Shawn Ryan describes the 'adrenaline trap,' where former special operators struggle to find meaning in civilian life after the neurological highs of combat.
He details a period of extreme danger in Medellin, Colombia, involving surveillance by local police and involvement in drug network infrastructures.
Ryan alleges that certain podcast guests may be strategically planted or used as tools for political narrative control within the media landscape.
A profound spiritual experience via Ibogaine led him to believe he visited 'hell,' resulting in a significant shift toward Christianity and intense spiritual warfare.
He emphasizes the importance of business alignment, noting that he has turned down lucrative opportunities that conflicted with his personal integrity.

Main topics

Navy SEAL and CIA background
The psychological toll of combat adrenaline
Navigating drug networks in Colombia

Notable quotes

I know what this is... it's a battle between good and evil.

Conclusion

A raw, intense exploration of how extreme physical and psychological e

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) You said you think you visited hell. I know I did. And it was more real than anything I've experienced. It was the most amount of fear I'd ever felt in my life. My body was contorted. It was doing things that the human body shouldn't do. Do you think you were possessed? Because subsequently you've had several exorcisms. Yes. The things that are happening are just undeniable. What happened? I'll tell you what I experienced. Just Speaker 1 (0:22) before we get into all of that, you Speaker 2 (0:23) have lived a remarkable life. I was in Speaker 1 (0:25) the Speaker 2 (0:25) U.S. Navy, went to Iraq, Haiti, Afghanistan, and... done some insane missions. I mean, you learn a lot of critical life lessons, but there's another side too. I mean, you get addicted to those type of environments, adrenaline. And Speaker 1 (0:39) after your CIA contracting role, you moved to Medellin, Colombia? Speaker 2 (0:42) Yeah. It was Speaker 1 (0:43) probably the most dangerous Speaker 2 (0:45) thing I'd ever done. Speaker 1 (0:46) Did you get involved in the drug dealing networks? Yes. I never really dealt. Speaker 2 (0:50) It was more setting up the network, figuring out who the players are that gave me the rush. There's not very many people that can pull some like that off, but then This guy, Freddy, he said the police were after me. They had planted a bug in the light fixture outside of my door, and then they... Speaker 1 (1:08) You now have built one of the biggest podcasts on planet Earth. Yes, but my show will not appear in popular Speaker 2 (1:13) podcasts because Speaker 1 (1:14) it's something that I was saying a long time ago. It had to do with... That is very fucking weird. Do you think podcasters are being compromised by guests being planted on their shows or in other ways? Yes. Here's one example. Trump administration Speaker 2 (1:26) crushed it in the election cycle. right really utilize the podcast they saw the power of it it was a great tactic and so i think that they have people inside of all the platforms that we use and this has happened to me because one time i had a guy come on and we can talk about that and you endorsed trump before the election i wanted him to win have Speaker 1 (1:43) you changed your opinion on trump now oh Speaker 2 (1:45) yeah for a multitude of reasons i probably shouldn't be saying this but Speaker 1 (1:52) Guys, I've got a favour to ask before this episode begins. The algorithm, if you follow a show, will deliver you the best episodes from that show very prominently in your feed. So when we have our best episodes on this show, the most shared episodes, the most rated episodes, I would love you to know. And the simple way for you to know that is to hit that follow button. But also, it's the simple, easy, free thing that you can do to help us make this show better. And I would be hugely grateful if you could take a minute on the app you're listening to this on right now and hit that follow button. Thank you so much. so, so much. Speaker 1 (2:26) Sean Ryan, you have lived a remarkable life for so many different reasons. I feel like you've lived several different lives as well, dare I say. But for anybody that might not be familiar with your smash hit show and your incredible journey through the military, can you give me a top line on the career that you've had before you got into podcasting, for those that might not know? Speaker 2 (2:49) Yeah, join me. U.S. Navy, I think I enlisted at age 17, went straight into the Navy SEAL program, went to BUDS, went to SEAL Team 8, spent five and a half years in the Navy, and then left that, became a real estate agent. I had read a book by Donald Trump way back then on, this is it, how to get rich. It inspired me to become an entrepreneur and failed miserably. So Speaker 3 (3:17) then Speaker 2 (3:18) I looked at government contracting. Started contracting for central intelligence agencies, started a small state department gig, got picked up for the CIA contract, did that through Blackwater, then jumped over to a company called SOCT, and then wound up getting picked up direct contractor for the agency of no Speaker 1 (3:37) middleman. And you said that you wanted to be a Navy SEAL. Now, for international audiences that might not know what a Navy SEAL is relative to just like being in the army, what is the distinction? Speaker 2 (3:48) A Navy SEAL stands for Sea, Air, and Land. So you operate in the sea, air, and the land. It's special operations. So it is one of the most prolific special operations units in the world. You go through a training pipeline that's a couple years long. You go through BUDS, which if you make it without getting hurt or without getting rolled back, that's six months. I didn't make it without rolling back, so I think I spent about nine months there. Then you go to jump school. Then you go to SQT, SEAL qualification training, which is kind of where they turn you into, I guess I shouldn't say they turn you into a special operator, but that's the final school. Then you get your SEAL tried in. And then you spend another year or two, year and a half training at your SEAL team before you ever even get the opportunity to deploy for the country. diving, jumping, land warfare, demolition, small unit tactics, lots of time in a kill house, lots of time in land warfare, all different operational environments, desert, winter, jungle, you name it, we're in it. Is Speaker 1 (4:57) it equivocal to the SAS, which is like the British version of the Special Operations Team? Speaker 2 (5:02) I would say, yeah, SAS or SBS. Okay. Speaker 1 (5:05) And you must have seen some pretty... Speaker 1 (5:08) horrific, interesting, unforgettable things while you were on those tours of duties around the world. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard in a lot of different environments. Speaker 2 (5:18) The first thing I ever saw that was warfare-ish, it wasn't really hot. I thought it was hot at the time. But 2004, we went to Haiti when Aristide got pulled out of power. It was the first time I'd really seen true poverty. And I don't know if you've ever been there, but I mean, you know, the sewage goes right into the streets. All the prisoners had broken out. There were dead bodies floating around the water. Bullet holes everywhere. Every once in a while, I'd see a car on fire. I mean, it was just mass chaos. It really wasn't anything compared to what I would see later on. But that was the first place. And then Afghanistan, we went there after Operation Red Wings happened. That was the biggest loss in SEAL Team history at the time. What Speaker 1 (6:09) was Operation Red Wings? Speaker 2 (6:11) Have you ever seen the movie Lone Survivor? Speaker 1 (6:13) No. Speaker 2 (6:13) Okay. There was a... a sniper element on a mountaintop that was surveilling a town that had a high-value terrorist in there. And the sniper hide was compromised by a goat herder. Goat herder went back to town and told everybody what he had seen, and then they ambushed the element up there. Helicopters went down, and then there was one guy that survived it. And so it was the biggest loss ever in SEAL team history at the time. That happened on June 28th, and I think we were there by late September or early October, I believe, is when we were there. We did some... hit some targets, but they were pretty much all dry holes, grabbed a couple of prisoners, stuff like that. And then we actually went home early, and then I went to Iraq. Well, I went to Iraq. My platoon went home. I decided I wanted to get out at that point. It just, for me, it wasn't really what I thought it was going to be. What was it? I thought it would be a lot more combat. I wanted to go out every night and do the job, do direct actions. do CQB, do sniper stuff, whatever. I just wanted to work. And we weren't getting that in Afghanistan. It was few and far between. And this was 05 timeframe and 05, 06 timeframe. I can't remember what happened, but the elections were dragging on. And so I had a OIC, which is kind of like the leader of a, of a steel platoon. He had found a way to farm us out to conventional units that were getting hit. We're getting hit on supply routes with roadside bombs, suicide bombers, stuff like that. And so we would attach into these conventional units and train them up. Hey, this is how you run surveillance. This is how you come up with a mission, basically. And we would teach them everything from how to plan the mission to how to set up a sniper hide, how to shoot. how to insert, how to exfil, how to position all the different teams. And then we would go out there, we would take them with us and hunt the people that were killing our guys. And every time we went out, we'd... We had killed the bad guys, the terrorists, within 24 hours of being out there. And then we'd move on to the next unit. And that was my last deployment. Speaker 1 (8:44) When you came back from the SEAL team, were you a different man? Speaker 2 (8:48) Definitely. Speaker 1 (8:48) In what way were you changed? Speaker 1 (8:51) A lot of Speaker 3 (8:52) ways. You Speaker 2 (8:53) learn a lot of critical life lessons in the SEAL teams and be in environments like that. And your personal drive just goes through the roof. What you realize that you can accomplish as a human being is far more than, I think, what the normal person thinks. Your ability to... to work in stress, in extreme stress, goes through the roof. There's another side, too. I mean, you get addicted to adrenaline. You get addicted to... Those type of environments. You succumb to the culture that comes with that, which is a lot of drinking, fighting, all those things. Speaker 1 (9:38) So you're in the Navy SEALs? Speaker 2 (9:41) Mm-hmm. Speaker 1 (9:43) You contract with the CIA for a while. And then I guess the other, you know, pretty tremendous accomplishment is you now have built one of the biggest podcasts on planet Earth, where you interview people just like I do here. That is correct. Do you think podcasters are being compromised by sort of guests being planted? Yes. Speaker 1 (10:01) I have no proof, but Speaker 2 (10:02) yes, in a couple of different ways. So here's one example, but not just podcast. Let's go influencers, not just podcasters. So Trump administration. Speaker 2 (10:18) crushed it in the elections, in the election cycle, right? Different podcasts, they really utilized the podcast. They saw the power of it. They utilized it. And it was a great tactic. And then afterwards, you know, I think a lot of podcasters and influencers, they felt powerful because, you know, they got close to the president. They got close to the administration. And if you saw what happened, you know, do you remember the first Epstein file release? Speaker 1 (10:45) Yes. Speaker 2 (10:46) When they had all these people show up and they're holding up the binders and shit. You know, they did not understand that the minute that happened, they were captured. He was. Everybody that was in those pictures. Oh, okay. They can no longer be a free thinker because maybe they are a free thinker, but the appearance that they just gave off is that they are in a tribe, you know, and they were smart to do this. And I've had several invites. I always turn it down because now I don't know. I'm not doing that. Invites to where? Invites to wherever. The White House. Football games, the White House, this, that. You know, public events where you'll be seen, where you'll be photographed, where it looks like everybody's on one team and we're all having a party and we're all friends and all this shit. You know, that's a way to capture what you're doing without you even realizing it and showing the world, hey, look, we have Stephen. We've got him. We've got pictures of him holding binders up. We've got pictures of him at dinners with us. He's on our team. And maybe you didn't want that, but you were so fixated on being close to power that. Speaker 2 (11:55) You didn't even realize it was happening. And now those people are all captured. It feels like once-in-a-lifetime stuff. Hey, we want you to come ride on Air Force One, ride on Marine One. Do this, do this with us, do this. I'm not doing any of that shit. I know what this is. You're trying to capture me and put me into a group. You can't allow that to happen. Otherwise, you hit a ceiling. And the minute that happens, you've hit the ceiling. And you don't know what kind of decisions these people are going to wind up making later on. So that was one of the ways you can be captured. That's one of the ways. You're talking about people being inserted into the podcast circuit. Speaker 1 (12:35) Yeah. Speaker 2 (12:35) Yeah, I think there are definitely people that are in the podcast circuit that are planted, but maybe they don't even know. Guests or hosts or both? Probably both. Probably Speaker 1 (12:45) both. Speaker 2 (12:45) You know? But like you said, we were talking about it offline. But yeah, I think there are guests that come out of nowhere and all of a sudden you see these people that nobody's ever heard of and they get just unfathomable traction and numbers. But it's not because they have a good life story. It's not because of something miraculous that they've done. It's just they're talking about current events. And I think the way that this works is... You know, you could talk to somebody for two, three, four, five hours, you know, but the mission, you know, the piece of it may only be one sentence. Hmm. that they know is going to hit. that they know, you know, they're hoping gets clipped. Or they can clip. And then that goes viral. Or maybe we've done something. This has happened to me. These people can come on and they'll make predictions about what's going to happen in different geopolitical events that are going around the world. You know, Ukraine, Israel, whatever it is, you know, whatever the thing. And then you get a text, you know, hey. I told you this was going to happen. And it's like, you did tell me that. How the fuck did you know that? And it's like, how do you even remember that Speaker 1 (14:09) you Speaker 2 (14:10) said that? Because you did 50 shows. You did 50 different podcasts in a two-month span. How do you remember you said that on mine? And when I have things like that happen, I'm like, oh. They got Speaker 1 (14:25) me. I wouldn't have believed any of this. I wouldn't, as an ordinary civilian, I wouldn't have believed any of this stuff even existed until I started learning about the spy organizations around the world. And because, how do I say this? You kind of grow up thinking the world is as it seems. And then you see, I don't know, James Bond and you go, okay, that's a movie. And at some point I realized that these things were actually true. Like that there are lots of different sort of spy agencies and networks around the world and they use all these operations, they compromise people, they put them in certain situations. There are people living here in New York City right now that are living lives we assume are real. They've got families, they've got jobs, they've got businesses, they've got all these things, but they're actually planted from another country. And the other country is like funneling the money to support them and prop up a fake life. Like when I learned all these things, I suddenly became very cautious generally about like calling anything a conspiracy. And then you sit here with these spies. I mean, I've probably, you've interviewed a lot of CIA spies. If someone had heard someone saying this on a podcast, I would have thought they were a conspiracy theorist. I would have dismissed it and gone, fucking idiots. Now, maybe from doing this. No, no, no, no. It makes logical sense to me. Like if I was insert adversary, that's what I would do. I would get insert great podcast guest. I'd get that because I'd know that the minute they have one good podcast performance, every podcast calls them. You can do 100 million views of just one good podcast performance. And can you influence a podcast performance? Can you send traffic to a podcast theoretically? Could you? Of course you could. I think you can. I think that they, you know, I think Speaker 2 (16:07) that they, Speaker 2 (16:09) I think that they have people inside of all the platforms that we use. Here's an example. I started talking about a certain subject very early on, and I'm not going to say we got shadow banned, but there was a lot. I'm still not even in the top most. What is that section on YouTube? The most popular podcast? We're number three on Spotify today. We've been the number one on YouTube several different times, but I can't get into the. My show will not appear in popular podcasts because it's something that I was saying a long time ago. It had to do with terrorism. Oh, this section? Yeah. Oh. You'll never see mine in there. We get like 150 to 200 million views a month. Speaker 2 (16:57) It's not in there. Yeah, you've got more U.S. views this week than Rogan has. God, isn't it? But anyways, so I think that there are people inside, you know, and I'm not saying that the companies even know, you know, because that's how this game works. This is the intelligence work is, you know, is the primary job, but the cover is, oh, I'm just an employee at YouTube. You know what I mean? Oh, I'm just an employee at Meta. Oh, I'm just an employee at TikTok. Oh, I'm just an employee, but it's a mole inside the organization that nobody really realizes is happening. Hmm. Speaker 2 (17:35) You know, Annie Jacobson calls it speculative narratives. Instead of conspiracy theories. Speaker 1 (17:42) Speculative narratives. Speculative narratives. I love that. I mean, she knows a lot about conspiracy theories herself. I mean, she's like basically studied and proven a lot Speaker 3 (17:50) of Speaker 1 (17:50) them aren't conspiracies. I'm guessing she's saying that in a way that is supportive of the idea that these speculative narratives are often true. I'm not complaining. I have a great partnership Speaker 2 (18:02) with YouTube. They've been great to me. You know what I mean? I don't really give a shit if I'm in that or not. I just find it very odd that we're not. Speaker 1 (18:11) You Speaker 2 (18:12) know? Speaker 1 (18:13) It's just like, well, this doesn't make much sense. I think with all platforms, there's a human element where there's someone at the office picking. I mean, that's the case with all, it seems to be the case with all these platforms. Did you endorse Trump before he, before the election? I was supportive Speaker 2 (18:29) of him. I wanted him to win. I don't think I gave any official endorsements or anything. I did get put in that sphere. What nobody remembers is I offered the Democratic Party. I mean, you can look it up. I think it's on the Washington Post. We were talking to Kamala's team. I wanted to have her on. I wanted to have everybody on. So they said no. Speaker 1 (18:50) Kamala Harris' team said no. Speaker 2 (18:51) They said no, but it wasn't just a hard no. We were talking about it. We were coming up with an outline. I had all these things that I wanted to talk about. They said, well, we don't want to talk about that. I said, I'll tell you what, you guys just tell me what you, I don't care what you want to talk about. I know I can hold my own. So you give me the topics and I'll develop the outline. How about that? Speaker 1 (19:13) And when Trump came on, was there anything he didn't want to talk about? Speaker 2 (19:16) There were no guidelines. I Speaker 1 (19:18) think this should be a little bit of a sort of a lesson for the Democratic Party about how to navigate in these environments. Yeah. They're learning. When Kamala came on my show, which was after the election and after she'd lost and all that stuff, no guidelines. Oh, really? Zero. That's good. She didn't tell me there was anything I couldn't talk about. But I think at that point, they had nothing to lose. I actually think at that point, she didn't even have the same team anymore. That's good. She came in. She was, in my view, she was honest. She said, Joe Biden kind of screwed me over. She was swearing. There was none of this sort of like cookie cutter, polished politician. You got the real shit. She just was super relaxed. That's good. And I just wish it offered that side of her to shows like yours beforehand, because it would have been good to see the comparison. Speaker 2 (20:00) Yeah, that's what I wanted to do. You know, and I had RFK on when he was still running as an independent. But yeah, we got very close to Kamala. And then at the last minute, they backed out. I wish it would have happened. I don't think it would have changed the outcome, but I wish it would have happened. Speaker 1 (20:19) Have you changed your opinion on Trump now? Oh, yeah. Speaker 2 (20:22) Really? Yeah. Why? Oh, man. Just for... Speaker 2 (20:29) multitude of reasons. I'm just, you know, to put it plainly, I'm not really happy about anything that's happening right now. I think he's totally gone against what he said he was going to do. What do you think? Are you happy? Speaker 1 (20:44) I'm not an American, so I tend to like trying to, you know, but I think, I mean, one of the things I think a lot about is this situation in Iran and how much of a blunder that appears to be. You know, I don't know a ton about the military or war or conflict, but logically, I can't reason my way out of that situation. Like, I can't find a good outcome at this point. to what's going on there. And because you have been a service person, you served, served for America, I was curious to get your perspective on what you think is going on there. And do you see a golden bridge or a positive outcome? No. At this Speaker 2 (21:22) point, I don't know what's going on there anymore. Nothing seems to make any damn sense to me. I don't think there's any positive outcome for America. Speaker 1 (21:31) When you talk to your former colleagues in the military, what's the general sentiment around the deployment and the situation there? They think that they are involved for another country's interests. Whose interests is it for? Speaker 2 (21:47) I think Israel probably Speaker 1 (21:49) has the majority of the interest here. I sat with J.D. Vance. He said that, you know, he said, we're the senior partner. But it sounds like your colleagues are saying that maybe that's not necessarily the case. It doesn't seem like that's the case to me. Do you buy the narrative that Trump invaded or started the war for reasons related to nuclear weapons? No. No. What do you think the real reason is, Sean? I don't know. You know, anything I say would just be speculative. Speaker 2 (22:17) But Speaker 1 (22:17) I don't think they're for our interests. And so why would Trump be sucked into doing something for a non-American country's interests? That's a great question. I don't know the answer to. Do you think America would be better off if the Democrats had won? I think that... Speaker 2 (22:37) These are Speaker 2 (22:41) seemingly more Speaker 1 (22:42) and more to be one and the same. And this is why you're sort of retracting from politics is because you're sort of, it sounded like you were a bit disillusioned by one of these candidates. Yeah. I've had, I mean, I just... Speaker 2 (22:57) Pretty much every one of them that I've had on has just lied straight to my face. Really? And to everybody who watches. You know what I'm interested in is I think that there is a possibility that maybe it's already happened, but I think that there's a possibility that America may no longer be the superpower or will not be shortly for a multitude of reasons. I mean, if you look at, you know, the power that... China's power structure, nuclear, they're going nuclear, and we're still batting around this shit here in America. Should we go nuclear? What are we going to do about our power grid? And the petrodollar, I mean, you've had, what's that guy's name? He does a great breakdown on it. Professor, the game theory guy. Yeah. Speaker 1 (23:45) Professor Chung. Speaker 2 (23:46) Yeah. He does a great breakdown of it. And I mean, when you think about it, it's like, holy shit. And you think about everybody that we've pissed off. You know, in America, I mean, like Canada, for example, Speaker 3 (23:56) you Speaker 2 (23:57) know, they wanted