Demonic Constructs (blood covenants, possession vs programming, & s*x magic) w/Mike Brewer

The Deep End w/Taylor Welch - Taylor A Welch

In this episode of The Deep End, host Taylor Welch sits down with Mike Brewer, an apostolic leader and deliverance minister with decades of experience. They explore the complexities of spiritual

Key takeaways

Deliverance is not a one-time fix; repeated sessions may be necessary if new or different demons are present, but recurring issues often point to unbroken spiritual agreements or unresolved trauma.
Demons construct 'houses' in the mind using emotional and cognitive patterns—these structures persist even after expulsion, requiring intentional renewal of thought life.

Main topics

Demonic possession vs. psychological programming
The role of trauma in spiritual vulnerability

Notable quotes

"When a demon comes in, it's going to construct a house. The building materials of the house is in the thinking and the emotions."

"If we repeat sessions, it's because there is a different cause. That's something a lot of people forget."

Conclusion

True spiritual freedom requires more than just casting out demons—it demands deep healing of the mind, heart, and spirit. Mike Brewer

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:00) Previously on The Deep End. I'm like, I don't see a lot of people casting out demons today. Feel free to use me. She looks like a full-blown witch. She confessed about a year in that she came just to kill us. Gave me the dagger that she did a blood sacrifice to bail. Tried to put a death curse on us. He said, for 10,000 American dollars, I can turn all of them to follow your God. This big old guy, 6'5", muscles, tattoos. He starts to manifest. I'm like, I'm not gonna let some demon look down at me. And so I jump up in the chair and he's like... And I said, who are you? The guy I'm holding. Can we do Speaker 2 (0:33) two episodes? Do we have the time to do two episodes? Today on The Deep End. How much of this deliverance is placebo versus actually getting to the root of an issue? I'm sort of just tired of all of it. The Speaker 4 (0:45) pastor's like, listen, you're probably going to waste your time with that person. Everybody's trying to help. It was pretty discouraging. Watch this 45-year-old woman start to transform to be like a child. I'm on this power kick of casting out demons. So it's all a demon. You got a hammer, everything's the nail. When a demon comes in, it's going to construct a house. The building materials of the house is in the thinking and the emotions. The most extreme thing that I've ever saw. We were dealing with a deeply occultic person that had come out of the occult, driving this thing out, and all of a sudden there's this big scream, lady collapses. I never wanted to know all the crap I know. I know it because it was necessary in the moment to help someone. He says, the Lord wants you to know. that you're about to enter the most difficult season you've ever experienced in your life. But he is telling you this now. So when you find yourself in the midst of this great difficulty, you will know he put you there. Earthquake hits Haiti. Our house collapsed. We dug kids out from under walls. We're sleeping in tents for the next six months. We're doing normal ministry locally. We know we're battling Lilith. And then I just got hit with sickness, but it was unusual pain. Iraq, poor veteran, he's having... with twin girls and the girls just stop midway through and they bring out a scroll. They unroll it and they said, you have to agree to this or we'll never do it again. And it is a dedication of his future firstborn child to Mullet. He's stupid, signs it. He has a fiance, gets her pregnant and her car literally stopped on train tracks and she was killed. Speaker 2 (2:21) to the high places, but if you want to go high, you first have to go deep. What's up, crew? Welcome back to the deep end. Welcome back to the deep end, sir. Speaker 1 (2:28) Thanks, man. Speaker 2 (2:29) How are you? Just so pumped. Truly. Speaker 1 (2:32) I'm just so excited. About life? Yeah, I'm excited about life. Speaker 2 (2:36) I'm also excited about Mike, man. Remember when you were 25? Speaker 1 (2:41) Yeah, I'll try to forget a lot of the pain when I was 25, but yeah. Dude, I'm going to have to watch myself in 15 years. I'm going to literally watch myself grow up. Yeah. Wait, Speaker 4 (2:49) you're only 25? Yeah. Speaker 2 (2:51) wow Speaker 4 (2:51) isn't that crazy Speaker 1 (2:52) like Speaker 2 (2:52) his knees still work Speaker 4 (2:53) wow Speaker 2 (2:53) kind of this one's a little broken we're gonna worry we'll deliver you today as mike will deliver your the spirit of whatever that is okay if you haven't told we have mike brewer in town and mike is i'll give you an introduction real fast an apostolic leader author entrepreneur how many books have you written Speaker 4 (3:12) Four or five. Speaker 2 (3:13) Four or five. Okay. He is the founder of The Equipping Company. He's been doing ministry for 25 years, equipping pastors and leaders and believers to walk in biblical truth, spiritual authority, kingdom influence. You have participated in the building of 5,000 churches, which is a lot, all over the earth. And you're also the founder of the Kingdom Warfare and Leadership Institute, which is an advanced training community dedicated to equipping Christian leaders to lead with wisdom, supernatural authority. and kingdom effectiveness. You have a passion for raising spirit-filled leaders and transforming families and communities and businesses through the gospel of Jesus, which is an amazing mission. Speaker 4 (3:51) It's a fun mission, that's for sure. Speaker 2 (3:53) How old are you? I forgot to ask you. I am 50. 50? 50. Hey, you have the gray hair to prove the wisdom. I have lots of gray hair. Yeah. So you've been through life. Yeah. Picked up lessons along the way. Speaker 4 (4:05) You know, my daughter's learning Spanish. No. She just learned Spanish like, three days ago. And the first word she wanted to learn is to come up to me and say, Dad, you have gray hair. It's a great Speaker 2 (4:17) thing to Speaker 4 (4:17) learn. It just Speaker 2 (4:18) happened. Speaker 4 (4:18) It's right at the top of my mind. Speaker 2 (4:20) Did she learn it? Speaker 4 (4:21) Yeah, yeah, she said it. And I had no idea what she was saying. But then she started laughing. Speaker 2 (4:27) Is this your 14-year-old? Yes, my 14-year-old. That makes sense. Okay, we're on brand with that. Guys, we're going to get into some cool, crazy stories because you're a deliverance. I know you don't want to be known for a deliverance minister, but I would say, how would you want to be known? I Speaker 4 (4:45) just love Jesus. I am a minister, but I just don't like being pushed into that hole of Speaker 2 (4:52) deliverance is my identity because it is not my identity. It's a byproduct. Yeah. yeah do you know if you had a account of like how many uh people have been impacted by your deliverance oh organization tens and tens and tens of thousands that's crazy Speaker 4 (5:07) yeah Speaker 2 (5:08) yeah yeah a lot okay um i want to start with the idea of trauma and the mind i want to give you a thesis and let you poke some holes into it if you need to but the more i have studied scripture One particular example that comes to mind is the demoniac that Jesus cast the demons out and then heals his mind immediately. There's no long-term care program. And I know discipleship is very important, but you see this interesting picture when Jesus is dealing with things. Freedom tends to come immediately, but then hanging on to that is now the journey. There's another story of Jesus when he says, What are you doing here? Why are you at the temple? And Jesus says, go and don't sin anymore so that something worse doesn't come in. And so deliverance can be like, and I'm just going to share my take on deliverance for a second. It almost seems like we have these subscription membership deliverance communities where it's like they get delivered, they come back, they got to get delivered again. And the issue might not be one of deliverance, but one of... Speaker 2 (6:19) mental warfare and hanging on to the mind. It means it no longer means deliverance. It just means like, what is it? What would be the right word for it at that point? Vacuuming. Oh, just cleaning it out. And then you got a bunch of stuff in there that's getting a dirty again. I'm sure you've experienced this in your life and in your experience, but how much of the realm of deliverance is actually an issue of reinfection and repollution because they cannot hang on to the freedom that they got in deliverance. So I'll give you my Speaker 4 (6:49) take on this. Sometimes we do need to repeat deliverance sessions, but because we identify what demons are present, we know if we're making actual progress. If it's a different demon than what we put out before, fine, no problem. That was necessary. If the same demon is still there over and over, we're drastically missing something that needs to be dealt with because it has some right that's not been broken. So if we repeat sessions, it's because there is a different cause. That's something a lot of people forget. Somebody's like, well, I've had five deliverance sessions. Well, somebody from outside may look at that and go, well, that's terrible because either you're getting demons over and over or what's going on, but we from the inside can say, no, on session one, we put this, this, and this out. Session two, we dealt with this, this, and we can break that down so it actually makes sense. We're not wasting our time. That's a real important thing. I talk about... When a demon comes in, or a set of demons come in or whatever, it's going to construct a house. That house is going to exist. The building materials of the house is in the thinking and the emotions. So now if we expel the demon, the house of thinking and emotions has not changed. And that's where we have to work in the realm of the mind, renewing the mind. Some of those houses are actually split personalities to where trauma has split the mind. Multiple personality, dissociative identity, whatever label you want to put on it, but it's literally the person with two minds, according to what James says. The double-minded man is unstable. So that is also a house because it's thinking and it's emotions. Demons will often hide in those houses behind the core person. there is some complexity that we have to go through and we want to document that very thoroughly. Now we've saw hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of split personalities healed in instance by Jesus. It's incredible. The fruit, once the demonic is out of the way, then we start working on dismantling the house, the demon built. Got Speaker 2 (9:10) it. So put this in some layman's terms for, for individuals who may not have had, crazy, crazy experiences. I think some of them we'll get into today. Those are the fringe cases. And that's what everyone's interested in most of the time is tell me the crazy story where something crazy happened. But I think that we would be remiss to not talk about how easy it can be for the mind to rupture or fracture. I was studying this morning, essentially anytime your body enters a sympathetic state, which is when your heart rate goes up, you start to get this fight or flight. and you're unable to release it? trauma can occur, which has happened to me a million times. And so I did not realize until I started going through some of my journey and studying this with the Lord, how many different places in my mind were unhealed and hanging on to entry points, almost keeping them open. And it wasn't a demon propping them open. It was my own safety, self-defense that was propping open this door that could then be accessed with other thoughts. The reason I'm starting here is because I want to know when I see deliverance ministers today. how much of this deliverance is placebo versus actually getting to the root of an issue? And I don't know if you can even answer that, but you can pontificate on it because as somebody who kind of grew up in the church, I'm sort of just tired of all of it. I'm like, everything looks like a physiological placebo. How do you know if something's really working or not? Speaker 4 (10:42) Yeah. So Speaker 2 (10:44) in Speaker 4 (10:45) an altar setting of a church or a gathering, we have different protocols of how we minister deliverance versus if we sit down with someone. We will typically book three-hour sessions. Now, do we need three hours to deal with demons? Absolutely not. But the first hour and a half of that is typically going to be building trust so that the person will open up with us. I mean, you can use giftings and usually force a demon up and maybe even out in 15 minutes if it's not a complex situation. Speaker 4 (11:19) Deliverance process is really a discipling process for three hours. So we are equipping them so they understand how it came in, what they got to do, what it's done in their lives. So we're trying to equip them as we deliver them. Altar setting, if people come forward and there is some level of manifestation that they're already occurring, I don't play this game just because somebody's shaking, it's a demon. I don't know if it's a demon or not. So I have to identify, are we dealing with trauma where it's fractured the mind and there's a split personality? I want to talk to that part. You know, if it's a deep split, it's going to have a different personality. It's going to have a different voice. So I'm going to talk to that part. Now, sometimes those parts will mimic demons. So you have sometimes it's split because of trauma and the part is very afraid. very terrified. I present, hey, I'm Mike. I'm your friend. I want to help you. Sometimes the part is the angry part. So maybe the person has been taken advantage of, and this part comes up, and now it's angry. That's the part that many deliverance ministers will confuse as a demon because it's coming up, cursing them, screaming at them, and then they are simply traumatizing it worse and forcing it to go deeper. So I just want to be really calm in very intense emotional situations and identify what's going on. So sometimes the first words I speak, unless a demon is just forward, is what's happening in your mind? What are you feeling right now? Because we have to diagnose. I don't like using that term, but recognize what's happening here and then find Speaker 2 (13:07) out what we're dealing with. Did you get this training from experience or did you go through like inner family systems and therapy? No, it's just experience. Speaker 4 (13:18) The first time I ever dealt with a split personality, this lady comes in. She's on 26 different medications. I mean, this was when I was like 23. She comes in. The pastor's like, listen, you're probably going to waste your time with that person. Everybody's trying to help. I mean, it was pretty discouraging. And I'm like, Jesus has an answer. He'll give it to me. I do some deliverance with her, and then I don't even believe in fractures at that point. You know, I had read a couple, like there was one book, had two paragraphs that I read, and I'm like, I disagree with everything Speaker 1 (13:50) right there. You Speaker 4 (13:51) know, Speaker 1 (13:51) in my world, it's all a demon. I Speaker 4 (13:54) mean, I come from the mountains. I'm 22. I've been back with the Lord a year. I'm on this power kick of casting out demons. So it's all a demon, you know. It's like you got a hammer, everything's a nail. So it's all demons. Speaker 4 (14:08) Well, I've gotten some demons out, but then I'm like, I am stuck. And I hear the voice of the pastor like, everybody tried to help her. And I'm like, Jesus, what is the answer? And then he shows me a vision of those two paragraphs I read in one book. That you disagreed with. And I'm like, uh-uh, no. So I get to the church that day, and they're like, Mike, the only open room we have to put you in today is the nursery. Speaker 2 (14:35) I'm like, the nursery? Speaker 4 (14:37) I got to do deliverance in the nursery? So we go into the nursery, and then I see the vision of the two paragraphs, and I'm like, no. And then I look at this person who's just willing to do anything to get help, and I said, listen, can I just try something? Oh, yeah, of course. And I'm like, if there's a part. That's there. I had no language. And I'm stumbling through this. I'm feeling stupid while I'm doing it. If there's a part there, you're carrying all the pain. You're carrying all of this. You're carrying all this. You've probably been watching me. I want to help you. Will you talk to me? And I watched this like 45-year-old woman start to transform to be like a child. It starts to talk to me like a child. This person had been ritualized, just was like taken in, ritualized, not ongoing. What does that mean when you say ritualized? Satanic ritual abuse. What does that Speaker 1 (15:35) mean? She Speaker 4 (15:35) was taken by occult practitioners and forced into a demonic ritual. Speaker 1 (15:43) Yeah, Speaker 4 (15:43) so she was ritualized. Yeah, so she was ritualized that Speaker 1 (15:45) way. Speaker 4 (15:45) There's so many different Speaker 2 (15:46) ways you can be Speaker 4 (15:47) ritualized. Yes, yeah, yeah. So I had worked with her in some memories for healing, but we had one memory. We had no context of her running out of the woods, and then she remembers her best friend died and was at a funeral. Speaker 3 (16:06) We Speaker 4 (16:06) didn't have no other context until this part comes forward. So this part comes forward traumatized, and I'm like, do you have a different name? And she gives the name, and I'm like, that's the name of the friend that died. And I said, can you tell me why you're so afraid? And she starts describing the rest of the memory we had no access to. So they were actually snatched off of the streets, taken into the woods, and they murdered her friend, and she escaped. So that's why the memory was her running out of the woods. Well, this split personality had those memories, took on the name of the person, the friend that died, so there could be some level of connection, I guess. So anyway, and I said, basically, what a simple, very simple protocol is, I said, will you let Jesus heal you? Will you let him help you? And this part's like, yes. Remember, 45-year-old body. you know, like nine-year-old girl. And I'm like, Jesus, will you come and heal? Will you restore? And I said, I'm just going to gently lay my hand on your head. Is that okay? And I very calmly, I always lower my personality, lower my voice, my tone, everything. And I lay my hand on her head with permission. And all of a sudden, it is just gone. It's reintegrated. And then the adult person is back and goes, the memory. And she now has the memory. Wow. And it's restored. And then the demons popped. Because they were behind that part and we cast out several things. Speaker 2 (17:45) Where has he been? How have I never heard of him before? And on the Speaker 4 (17:51) mission Speaker 2 (17:51) field. Because American deliverance ministries need this so bad. Because they don't realize that inner child is a champion. Yes. Like that woman, that kid took that for the host, for the adult. Speaker 4 (18:06) Yeah. It's an absolute, I teach these parts are an absolute grace and a gift of God. Yes. And many times are not revealed. until they're in a place to where they can be made whole. Where it's safe. Yeah. Now, sometimes they're triggered because the host, like once the mind splits once, it's easier to split again and again. So sometimes they may be in a deliverance service and the demon is getting provoked. But the demon wants to remain hidden. So the demon now projects all of these unsafe feelings upon the person. The person thinks it's them. So now they're feeling all this crazy anxiety, the demon swirling, all these words in their head. Well, the last time they felt that was when a part was split. Now that part kicks in and comes forward and it's in this service with all these people and lights and people screaming and yelling. So now the part starts screaming and yelling because it's, it's remembering its own trauma. Speaker 2 (19:07) And Speaker 4 (19:07) then the deliverance minister is like, in the name of Jesus, they're Speaker 2 (19:10) being touched without permission. Yes. Yep. So we operate strictly Speaker 4 (19:14) on permission based. The only time we touch without permission is if violence is happening, we will momentarily restrain, but in a public deliverance service, Before I lead in curse breaking, I'm explaining what is going to happen very calmly. If this happens, this is what we're going to do. This is why we're going to do it. If this happens, if this happens to you, we're going to let you know you're safe, you're secure, you're with people that are trained. I've trained my people on literally how to hold someone so they don't leave with bruises. East Tennessee, first things we do is weapons check. Speaker 4 (19:49) When you're in Tennessee, people carry guns. We have safes for that. We have protocols around these things that we institute. And we never allow deliverance outside of a team, both for witness protection, everything. Speaker 2 (20:03) Have you ever taken someone through that you might not have had to? A fracture and a rupture are slightly different. But we work with business owners, and they're all ruptured. Some of them may not have DID or true splitting. Speaker 2 (20:19) Because their life might not have been threatened, but bankruptcy threatened a version of their life that was important enough to rupture. And one of the things that we've started to do, and the Holy Spirit did this with me, he took me through inner child therapy one day. And he was like, tell that kid, thank you, first and foremost. Because that version of you feels like he's done everything for you and has never been seen. Have you ever gone into that with people? Speaker 4 (20:52) I'm going to say no. I'm trying to learn the different language that we may use. So most of the time, I understand that there are fractures that's not full dissociations. Those are extremely important. In the deliverance session that we do, while that is extremely important, because many times people are coming to us and they may be in town for the day. Speaker 2 (21:18) We Speaker 4 (21:19) may only have three hours and there's nobody around them that understands deliverance to help them. So I will teach our teams, we're going to focus on the massive issues first, which is full splits. And removing the kingdoms. But we understand those parts are important, but they may not be enough for like a legal right for a demon to stand on. So we're going to get those other things resolved first, and then we're going to very much recommend them for inner healing sessions with somebody that's actually trained to do that. So we do distinguish those. Speaker 4 (21:59) practices based on the limited time got Speaker 2 (22:02) it um have you seen what the primary physiological response is for somebody who is uh getting healed from the traumatic side have you studied any of this studied no i can i mean we got to talk after this yeah i give you so much research when when that version of a person leaves for the first time it is most often indicated by shaking oh Speaker 4 (22:27) okay because Speaker 2 (22:28) there's trapped energy inside of that person and it's got to release yeah Speaker 4 (22:32) now now okay so i'm picking up on the language so like when we have reintegrations happen sometimes it's it's 10 or 15 minutes before we can do anything because there are these types of responses. Sometimes we have to, sometimes the person regains memory they've never had. Sometimes they don't. I don't know why. It's just the Lord's doing. But sometimes they are seeing for the first time that the person they thought victimized them, they knew they were victimized, but they don't have the memory of visually seeing that happen. Those memories have actually come back. So we have to be with them, help them through processing those things before we can move on. So, yeah, we saw the shaking. We saw the bursting out in tears. I saw people literally collapse, lose consciousness, then return. Because it's just God is literally – I've had them grab their heads before and go, it feels like my mind is being restructured. in this moment because it literally is memories they've never had that were isolated from their core being are now flooding and emotions too as well yep Speaker 2 (23:46) yep or have you seen this is going to be interesting when you look at people that they're just constantly doing this with their legs is like there's somatic energy usually trapped up in a version of that person wow um but shaking and shaking and crying are big pieces of that i got another question for you in our deliverance obsessed culture today you could take a perfectly healthy perfectly functional adult And at times I feel like they can become convinced that they need deliverance and that they have a demon or something when it's really just like, you know, you, you just are not good at your job or something silly. And they're like, no, it's a demon because I keep getting fired. Well, you just don't show up on time. That's why. So like, how do you tell in the moment the difference between someone who is using deliverance almost because they're a victim and they, they want a culprit rather than like, does my question make sense? Oh yeah. Speaker 4 (24:42) Yeah. So if someone's coming in for a session where we're sitting down or they're booking a session with some of our teams that we've trained, they're going to fill out an intake form. Speaker 4 (24:54) And we're looking for evidence of entry points. We're looking for the commonalities. But one of the first questions that I, if I was leading, one of the first questions I will ask is, do you think you have demons or do you not think you have demons? And if they say, I think I do, then I'm going to, they're going to have to tell me why. What are the symptoms? Because I'm not. I don't introduce things. I don't look at somebody and go, Lucifer, come up. Or this could Speaker 2 (25:26) be a suggestion. Speaker 4 (25:27) Yeah. I'm going to force whatever is there to be revealed. So one of the strict rules we have our people is you never introduce a demon's name to the person. If there's a manifestation, you must demand it to reveal itself. Because they are coming to you already broken to some degree or deceived. They look at you as an authority. And if you go like, Python, come forward. Now they're leaving going, man, he thought Python is there. I wonder why didn't Python reveal itself? Now they're convinced they have Python. So we don't. And Python is vital because their new belief system, which actually occurred from an immature person doing deliverance on them. So we don't let our teams introduce things. I may be fully convinced. I may see the thing flopping around in them, but I'm not going to introduce that information. I'm going to extract it. Wow. And that's about being disciplined Speaker 2 (26:24) in what you do. Yeah. So you're going to fix deliverance in the U.S., right? I'm going to share life. Speaker 4 (26:39) And we've certainly jacked it