The Life and, for Now, the Death of the Kennedy Center

The Daily

The episode investigates the recent closure of the Kennedy Center following a period of intense political intervention by the Trump administ

Key takeaways

• President Trump replaced Biden-era board members with loyalists including Susie Wiles, Usha Vance, and Howard Lutnick's wife.
• The center was renamed 'the Donald J. Trump and... John F. Kennedy Memorial Center,' placing Trump's name above JFK's.

Main topics

• Kennedy Center takeover
• Political influence on arts

Notable quotes

The tour she was giving was kind of a tour of wreckage.

Conclusion

The episode serves as a cautionary tale regarding the vulnerability of

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:00) Hey, it's Anna Martin from The New York Times. What if I told you you'll never have to hear this line again? Speaker 3 (0:06) Wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 4 (0:08) Yeah, no, I actually can't tell you that. But you know what I can tell you? A place I think you might want to go. It's the Shows tab in The New York Times app. The place to listen to and now watch full episodes of New York Times shows. The Shows tab. Find it in The New York Times app. Explore The Shows tab and follow a show today. Speaker 3 (0:34) You know, this is what they play when the performance is about to start. Speaker 2 (0:38) Yes. Speaker 3 (0:39) You're calling people Speaker 2 (0:40) in. So a few months ago, I took a tour of the Kennedy Center with a tour guide there. Speaker 3 (0:48) Oh, can I get your name? Speaker 2 (0:50) Oh, Sandy Weiswasser. A volunteer named Sandy Weiswasser. Wow, I got to spell that out. W-E-I-S-W Speaker 4 (0:57) -E-I-S-W-E-I-S-W-E-I-S-W-E-I-S-W-E-I-S-W-E-I Speaker 2 (0:58) -S-W Speaker 4 (0:58) -E-I-S-W-E Speaker 2 (0:58) -I Speaker 4 (0:58) -S-W-E-I-S-W-E Speaker 2 (0:58) -I-S-W-E Speaker 4 (0:59) -I Speaker 2 (0:59) -S-W-E-I-S-W-E-I-S-W-E-I-S-W-E-I-S-W-E-I-S-W-E-I-S-W-E-I-S-W-E-I-S-W-E-I-S-W-E-I-S-W-E-I Speaker 3 (1:06) -S-W-E-I-S- Am I an artist? No, I play the piano, though. You do? And I care Speaker 2 (1:12) a Speaker 3 (1:12) lot Speaker 2 (1:13) about the arts. I mean, I Speaker 3 (1:14) love ballet and opera. Speaker 2 (1:16) Before President Trump took over the Kennedy Center, Sandy's tours were always packed. But then he took over, made a lot of changes, and people stopped coming. Speaker 2 (1:28) And so on the day that I was there, the center was empty, and I was the only person on Sandy's tour. Speaker 3 (1:34) So this foyer apparently is one of the largest... Speaker 2 (1:37) And as she walked me through the center... The largest gift is this marble, which comes from Carrara, Speaker 3 (1:44) Italy. Beautiful chandelier. It's done by Dale Chihuly. Speaker 2 (1:48) It was clear how proud she was of the place. I Speaker 3 (1:51) like the undulating quality of it. Speaker 2 (1:54) And how much she reveres it. Speaker 3 (1:56) No bed seat in the place. No, it doesn't look like it. Speaker 2 (2:03) But at some point in the tour, it occurred to me that she was speaking in the past tense. Speaker 3 (2:09) That's the other thing when I give my tours now. Do I give them present tense or past tense? It's very hard. What words to use for my verbs? And Speaker 2 (2:20) the tour she was giving was kind of a tour of wreckage. And what she was explaining and all of her memories started to sound a lot to me like a eulogy. Speaker 3 (2:32) So, I mean, all these little things about all the performers that are no longer here is very sad. Speaker 2 (2:39) And it also became clear that in Sandy's mind, there was one person responsible for all that had happened to the Kennedy Center. Speaker 3 (2:48) I mean, this place used to be really thriving and busy and crowded. Now it's very empty. And that was President Trump. Speaker 5 (2:57) From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Speaker 5 (3:07) Today, the life and, for the time being, the death of the Kennedy Center. My colleague, Elizabeth Williamson, brings us the story of how President Trump decided to take over and now shut down Washington's biggest and most celebrated home for the arts. It's Friday, September 25th. Speaker 5 (3:42) Elizabeth, welcome back to The Daily. Michael, it's great to join you. You have been watching the Kennedy Center shut down for months, first gradually and then abruptly, when it literally closed its doors about 10 days ago. So we're coming to you for what feels a bit like a post-mortem here, to understand why President Trump has closed this place down. And I think any good post-mortem... has to begin with the question of motivation. How do you think about his motivation here? Speaker 2 (4:16) I think you have to go back to President Trump's first term. Remember, this was a really brutal election with a surprise result. He comes into the White House. He had been roundly rejected by cultural elites in New York City, the epicenter of the nation's cultural life. And he comes into Washington, where the center of the cultural life in the Capitol is the Kennedy Center. And he's thinking, I'm the president now. So surely he'll be welcomed more broadly by the culture once he's in the White House. But instead, that rejection really continued. Speaker 2 (4:59) And there was probably no better example in that first year than the annual Kennedy Center Honors, which is the Kennedy Center's biggest night of the year. Speaker 5 (5:11) And what form does that rejection take? Speaker 2 (5:13) So three of the five honorees in 2017 said that they either would not come to the White House for the presentation of the actual medals before the ceremony at the Kennedy Center, or they were considering not coming. Speaker 3 (5:29) Why did you decide not to do that? Because he's made me feel it's not my White House. Speaker 2 (5:37) The first to say this was Norman Lear, who created All in the Family and many of our most beloved sitcoms and television shows. Speaker 3 (5:46) But I've gotten over that. It is my White House. It oughtn't to be his. Speaker 2 (5:51) And Carmen de la Valade, a dancer and choreographer, said out and out, no. I just can't. I'm absolutely not going. I am 86 now. I have all these years I have done when Speaker 3 (6:05) anybody asked me to. And this is the first time in my life I've ever said no. Speaker 2 (6:09) Lionel Richie, who was also an honoree that year, said, well... You Speaker 3 (6:14) know, I'm going to just play it by ear. Speaker 2 (6:16) I can't decide if I'll go. I Speaker 3 (6:18) must tell you, I'm not really happy as to what's going on right now with... Speaker 3 (6:25) And I think Speaker 2 (6:27) that that was quite a realization for him. He had gotten to the absolute top of our hierarchy and still that rejection continued. So Trump's response to that was to say, OK, if you don't want me, I don't want you either. And he just was generally a no-show for the entirety of his four-year term. Speaker 5 (6:50) So for the next four years, Trump basically boycotts the Kennedy Center and thoroughly writes it off. Speaker 2 (6:57) Yes. And so when he begins his second term in 2025, you know, this is now he's newly energized. He's got a different agenda when he comes in in his second term. As we well know, he is vowing to be. people's retribution, but he's also remaking aspects of society, including our cultural life. He comes in as an anti-woke president. He won on that. Speaker 1 (7:22) So Speaker 2 (7:23) barely in office for a month, 18 days to be exact, he starts to launch a plan to take over the Kennedy Center. Speaker 5 (7:35) And taking over how? Just like logistically, what power does he have over