The Interviews | Ari Emanuel, Tom Morello, Jessica Tarlov, Merritt Wever

The Daily Show: Ears Edition

This episode features a compilation of high-profile interviews from the past week on The Daily Show. Guests include industry titan Ari Emanu

Key takeaways

• Ari Emanuel discusses how dyslexia helped him develop non-linear thinking in the entertainment business.
• Tom Morello details using the pandemic to mentor his 15-year-old son into a guitar prodigy.
• Jessica Tarlow explains the psychological difficulty of presenting opposing facts to entrenched political believers.
• Merritt Wever reflects on the visceral, voyeuristic experience of filming a period piece about predatory television.

Main topics

• Business memoir and legacy
• Music activism and solo artistry

Notable quotes

I would rather have a meaningful life because that is a life of pleasure.

Conclusion

The episode offers deep dives into the personal philosophies and profe

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) You're listening to Comedy Central. Speaker 7 (0:17) My guest tonight serves as executive chair and CEO of TKO and executive chairman of WME Group. His new memoir is called Roll the Calls. Please welcome to the program Ari Emanuel. Ari! Thank you for having me. Speaker 7 (0:46) You are, as way of disclosure, I work for you. You are my agent, sort of. I think that's a role reversal. I work for you, John. Bullshit. This is the longest I've ever talked to you. A lot of people can say that. Very true. Speaker 8 (1:07) You're Speaker 7 (1:08) a powerful man. And you're a legendary agent. You're very interesting. But I don't know if you're this interesting. Speaker 7 (1:17) Ari, this is 417 pages. Did you count how many Fs there were? There's a tremendous amount. You should have called the book, me? No, you. It's 400 pages. I had to read this. Yeah. Speaker 7 (1:38) We could have waited until Bob Odenkirk did the audio. Bob Odenkirk did the audio? Yeah. How did you get him? Speaker 8 (1:45) Well, it goes way back. I was Bob's agent when Mr. Show happened. Speaker 7 (1:50) Oh, God, on HBO. What a great show that Speaker 8 (1:52) was. Speaker 7 (1:52) Yeah, Speaker 8 (1:52) and Bob's still a friend. Called him up. He said, I'm going to read it anyway. Why don't I just read it and make some money? I said, great. I did my... Speaker 8 (2:03) I did my best agent thing there. Speaker 7 (2:04) How much do you, as his agent, pay him to do your project? So much. So much. So much. I see. Yeah. And is this, what is the impetus of writing the book, if I may, because there's a lot of other people in the industry that you've Speaker 6 (2:23) worked with Speaker 7 (2:24) that receive. Speaker 7 (2:28) if I may, less than stellar treatment in the book, but you're still alive and so are they. Yeah. Why? Speaker 8 (2:38) Should I be serious for two seconds? No! Oh, okay. Yes, be serious for two seconds. No, listen. I know this is gonna shock you, but most of the time, I'm talking for other people when I represent them. This is the first time I'm talking in my voice. And the main reason is I'm dyslexic, ADHD. A lot of parents have come up to me and asked me about that. And this is kind of their Thomas guide, which we used to drive in LA to the map to say... If you help your kids, one, get endurance and go through dyslexia and let them struggle as hard as it is for a kid. Right. They can turn out okay, and here's the ways that they can turn out okay. And the great thing about dyslexia is you're not linear thinker. Right. In my opinion, you become a free thinker because you can't, you're not attached to the words, you're attached to other things. So Speaker 7 (3:28) this is about, given the setback that you may have had with dyslexia, the fact that you can fight through it. And then it's also for kids. This is not for kids. This is maybe the least, like... Speaker 8 (3:42) This ain't Miss Rachel. Let's put it that way. But here's Speaker 7 (3:45) what Speaker 8 (3:45) I would say to you. A lot of people starting out in the business. Yes. I started out making 15 cents a mile, and this was my Speaker 7 (3:52) path. You were a mailroom guy. I was a mailroom guy. Speaker 8 (3:54) And this is a Thomas guy, a ways about. Speaker 8 (3:59) The struggles that it takes because you know success as you know is not a straight line. There's ups There's down there's pain and there's a lot of emotional pain physical pain actually that you have to go through if you want to make it and this is just to say it's okay one it's okay to say what I want one and so sick a to go for it and One it's okay to have agency for yourself, right? And I think one of the most important things for a kid advocate to advocate for yourself I Speaker 7 (4:28) never had our best friend. Speaker 8 (4:29) Did Speaker 7 (4:29) people advocate for you when you had dyslexia? Because I know, you know, and you've talked about this, your parents had very high expectations. For those of you who don't know, Ari's brother, Rahm Emanuel, worked for Barack Obama and Bill Clinton and was the mayor of Chicago. And your brother, Zeke, is a world-renowned physician. Correct. And that made you feel sometimes insecure. Speaker 8 (4:53) Well, Speaker 7 (4:54) my Speaker 8 (4:54) mom... put our grades on the on on the fridge you walk in a plus a plus idiot you know and you know like i i wanted i wanted my voice and not that i i knew i wasn't stupid just because you're dyslexic you're not stupid but i i wanted that ability to kind of make a a name for myself and it takes going forward it takes agency And it takes believing in yourself in the face of a lot of different things. And the other thing it does is if somebody tells you, no, you can't do it, which they told me I couldn't read. They told me you shouldn't start an agency. They told me a lot of things I couldn't do. But you have to believe. And that takes a lot emotionally, physically to go up against. people Speaker 7 (5:40) right and that's not easy you do talk a lot about that the dyslexia your brother's uh achievements it's set in you you begin the book with it a rage an anger in you i don't see it right now but i've been on the phone and have seen it i Speaker 8 (5:54) have for you i have love gone after people yeah with with Speaker 7 (5:59) rage yeah yes thank you but where does is that where the rage is from Speaker 8 (6:07) You know, I didn't have a plan B. I found the entertainment business. The minute I heard about it, I fell in love and I went for it. And that was whether it's not going to business school, making 15 cents a mile. My brother's making fun of me. My father's saying, what are you doing in his heavy accent and going. Ollie. Ollie. Yeah. And so for me, there was no plan B. There was only plan A. So I just had to make it work. And it didn't matter what it took. I did it. Nothing illegal, but I did whatever it took. Page 47! I don't want to Speaker 7 (6:42) say I circled it. As you look back, because I think, and I don't think I'm speaking out of school here, but you have mellowed. You've been on a journey. Would that be fair to say? You want to bring the wife out Speaker 8 (6:57) and see if she sets up the sun out there? There's like three pages at the end where I Speaker 7 (7:00) was like, oh my God, now he's Forrest Gump. Like, what the f***? Here's what I would say happened. A Speaker 8 (7:07) businessman said to me at one point, he said, you have to know when you're on the field of business and when you're off the field of business. Speaker 7 (7:14) When you're on the field of business, you do what you need to Speaker 8 (7:17) do. And when you're off the field, you got to be off the field. And my wife always points out to me, and I've started a new business. She says, when you're off the field, let's be off the field. And it has made me better on the field. That doesn't mean... Speaker 8 (7:33) There's not thousands of calls and a lot of aggressive and and working hard is not the same as working angry correct and I have I have I have gone through a Lot of work to get to you go Speaker 7 (7:46) on like licking toad Expedition, I do what now what was that about? Well, I did trying to get a hold of well Speaker 8 (7:54) Dr. Calm my shrink. Yes said to me his name is not dr. Calm. Yeah. No, definitely not He said to me at one point, you have an ego problem. And then we did a Speaker 7 (8:05) lot of work on the ego problem. What was the ego problem? Too much or too little? Hello? What are you talking about? Speaker 8 (8:12) Too much. Yeah. All right. And he said at one point, which really stuck with me, he goes, you know, this anger problem, the ego problem. Speaker 8 (8:22) Back in the 50s people that were really successful in business were considered smart and for whatever reason that statement hit me and I remember my parents coming into LA and I picked them up at the airport we were talking about I had just taken over William Morris with Patrick and everybody and I've been was explaining the business to my dad who was asking me question my mom and they in the backseat they go well who all does all that and I'm I said well it's not my brother Rahm or my brother Zeke, you know, hello. And... That was my life in not a horrible way, in a beautiful way. And I then kind of figured out, you know, I'm not stupid and I'm not afraid of being found out. But that's still sticking. No, no, no. As you're as you're as Speaker 7 (9:09) you're leading WME, you're still driven by this idea that I'm not that dyslexic kid. Well, if your mom Speaker 8 (9:15) and dad said that, you're like, Speaker 7 (9:16) who does all this Speaker 8 (9:18) stuff on Speaker 7 (9:18) this show? You would be like, Speaker 8 (9:19) well. Speaker 7 (9:21) You don't think that's what they... My brother went to Princeton, for f***'s sake. And so Speaker 8 (9:30) I realized, you know, that's just something in the past. And I went on a journey trying to figure out how to deal Speaker 7 (9:37) with Speaker 8 (9:37) that. I did some psychedelics, even though my brother Zeke says he would never do it, even though he realizes that there's benefit to him. And it helped me get through, plus being married to a wonderful woman. this this little Speaker 7 (9:52) ego you feel like you've come to a different place yeah why does rom still give you shit i think even at your wedding yeah Speaker 8 (9:58) like Speaker 7 (9:59) he gave you shit at your wedding yeah Speaker 8 (10:01) that's just competition but listen really why i wrote the book i just want my mom to love me five seconds more than that Speaker 7 (10:09) what you think let me just say something Speaker 8 (10:15) My mom is still alive. She's 93. I'm doing an event in Chicago. And she's coming. And I'm going to roll her on stage because she's in a wheelchair. She's still a monster. Fantastic lady. And I think I got five days more of love than those two guys. Yeah, I do. And Speaker 7 (10:36) that makes it all worth it. Yeah. You know what you could do to really screw Rahm over? What? Oh, dear God, this would be hilarious. You should run for president. Speaker 7 (10:48) You run for president, it would blow his mind. Let me just say, some of the interviews, is your brother running? They ask if your brother. Rahm is running for president. No, he's not. What are you Speaker 8 (10:59) talking about? Speaker 7 (10:59) So here's what I would say. Here's what I say. Here's what I say about my brother Rahm, Speaker 8 (11:02) who I love my brothers dearly. Thank God we're in different parts of the country. Once in Washington, once in... He worked in the Clinton administration, Congress, unbelievable mayor, fought the teachers union on strike for nine days, then went into, I think, the tough Obamacare for President Obama, got through the financial crisis in 08, and he then went into a region where he worked with all our allies to combat what I think is China's aggression. Speaker 7 (11:29) If Speaker 8 (11:30) you're asking me if, not that he is, running, There's not one person more qualified than my brother to do it. Really? Speaker 7 (11:38) And Speaker 8 (11:38) he would be an incredible president, and I would be unbelievably proud of him. Speaker 7 (11:44) Oh, my God. You're buying this? Guys, hold on one second. Hold on one second. He's an agent. His whole job is... That's how he got Tyler Perry his own f***ing studio. There is not one actor I would trust more than you. Than Medea. Speaker 7 (12:13) Fantastic. But you don't, it's so interesting to me because, you know, when I read this book, I have to say, I had a feeling for you that I hadn't had before. There's a lot of this that feels like you don't enjoy it. That there were moments, you know, you talk about your thyroid gave out and you lost 20 pounds. That, you know, you were squeezing it so hard that it felt torturous to you to live it. Is that how it felt going through it? Did you enjoy it? Speaker 8 (12:44) I've loved every minute. For real? People say, are you happy? Because I asked the question, are you happy? I would say the following. Speaker 8 (12:52) First of all, what the is happy? But second of all, I'm satisfied, I'm happy. And as my mother taught us when we were growing up, would you like to have a meaningful life or a life of pleasure? I would rather have a meaningful life because that is a life of pleasure. And I have had an incredible meaningful life. I've enjoyed all of it. It has been brutal at times, but I have learned a ton. You Speaker 7 (13:17) did something. Speaking of that meaningful life that can be brutal at times, you went to, you're being honored at the Simon Wiesenthal Center, which is a huge Jewish organization. In your speech, you stand up. This is two years ago? Yeah. and you give a Jeremiah ad against Bibi Netanyahu. Yeah. And his treatment of Palestinians. Yeah. And Israel's complicity in that. Yeah. To the point where people are booing you and walking out. Yeah. Huzzah. Because that's not an easy thing to do. I Speaker 8 (13:56) give you a 10 out of Speaker 3 (13:57) 10. Speaker 8 (13:59) Here's what I... Speaker 8 (14:03) That goes to my mom and my dad. They took us down to protest civil rights movements in Chicago. Three little boys. Her walking down there from the suburbs. Speaker 7 (14:13) But you're like a Sabbath Jew. You do the whole... If I did that, people would be like, well, sure he has a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich for Passover. Speaker 8 (14:21) But on Speaker 7 (14:22) you, that's your real guy. I'm willing to Speaker 8 (14:24) stand up for what I believe in, what I think is right, and what I think is... I'm not right. You know, when my brother was in the White House during the Obama administration, Bibi Netanyahu in a meeting said, you're a self-hating Jew. And I think my brother's speech in Israel, where he talked about he's not making Jews in Israel safe, those are things that are important to do. And you have to stand up for yourself, have your voice, have agency. And those are the things my mom taught me. Speaker 7 (14:52) Right. Well done. I appreciate that. Speaker 6 (14:54) What would you do as an agent of anyone? This would be a nice little test. Speaker 7 (14:59) Let's say you're an agent and you got a big music star and his opening act goes out and says things that and you're the kind of music star that's just out there like I wear dungarees with your picture on it like that kind of shit. Speaker 7 (15:16) How would you as an agent, and then stadiums start to cancel, and they say you've got to get rid of these guys. If you're representing Ed Sheeran, what do you do? We'll go through it. I'll have you represent Macklemore, I'll have you represent Ed Sheeran, and I'll have you represent Bob Carr. I'll just do the Macklemore for you. Speaker 8 (15:34) Do Speaker 7 (15:35) the Speaker 8 (15:35) Macklemore for Speaker 7 (15:35) me. Speaker 8 (15:36) As I would say to you is the following. I do not believe what is happening in the West Bank is fair and right and just. But if you're talking about and I had this conversation with a client recently And we can all the great thing is I'm okay to have a discussion disagree and have a and get better absolutely I don't believe the word genocide is the proper word for what happened in the way you know I do not so Speaker 7 (16:02) that's so that would Speaker 8 (16:03) be I would have I would have this conversation with them right where we can sit down as human beings I don't want to live in a country that is a cult or in a Speaker 7 (16:12) kind of echo chamber. I want to have a conversation with him where Speaker 8 (16:16) we can all like sit there and say, okay, here's the one argument, here's the other, and let's get to a point where we can have a conversation. But Speaker 7 (16:22) even if it's not the proper word. Do I think it needed Speaker 8 (16:27) to go to the extent it needed to go to? Speaker 7 (16:30) Right. That they would literally have a guy say, you're not coming into my stadium because that's dangerous. That's my question. Speaker 8 (16:38) Right. Well, that's a conversation I would have with Bob Kraft and those people about their opinions about those things. This is a lot of gray. Right. Who would you say, f*** you to first? Speaker 8 (16:51) I say f*** you to a lot of people first. I meant in this situation. I wouldn't. In this situation, Speaker 7 (16:57) it's too delicate to Speaker 8 (16:58) say f*** you. Speaker 7 (16:59) Would you have encouraged Bob Kraft not to have canceled, not to have threatened to pull those guys? Bob Speaker 8 (17:04) Kraft, I don't know if you know, he does, you know, the blue square. I don't know what that means. He has given a lot of money to a movement to stop hate. How's that going? Well, you know something? We need more of that. We need more people talking about, let's not hate each other, let's talk to each other. Let's not talk about things that are really kind of, I think, let's all get on the same page about what we're discussing. We can disagree, but let's not be disagreeable. I think people have said that. And Bob Craft is doing an incredible job with the Blue Square to try and combat hate. And I don't like hate anywhere in the world. And I don't like Jews committing hate on West Bank Palestinians. I don't like any of it, and I think there's a way to kind of, we have to keep on having this conversation. Speaker 7 (17:52) Do you believe what he said on stage was hate? I don't think it was Speaker 8 (17:57) completely understanding the facts. And I think it was belittling to Jewish Speaker 7 (18:02) people, too. So if someone got on stage and said, like, happy Hanukkah or... Well, Speaker 8 (18:05) as I said in the book, Don, there's certain people that have said things that I think are hateful. Right. And I've written about Mel Gibson and Speaker 7 (18:12) Kanye that I didn't think were right. How do you... You know, it's so interesting because it is... The people in this book, like... You're in with very powerful people, and there are bodies, and they are buried, and, like, you have relationships that are severed, people that you came up with. Yeah. And it's been difficult. Yeah. And you write about Mel Gibson and how upset you were and Kanye and all that, but Elon escapes. You know, he's still a very good friend of yours, but he's very clearly... I don't know if you