Canada Is Done With Trump
The Daily
Canada has reached a breaking point in its trade relationship with the United States under President Trump, choosing to walk away from negot
Key takeaways
- Canada is the only major ally refusing to make incremental concessions to Trump's trade demands, opting instead for a full-scale confrontation.
Main topics
- Canada-U.S. trade relations under Trump
Notable quotes
We're done with talking, we're walking away, we're now in a trade war with the United States.
Conclusion
Canada's decision to reject Trump's trade demands marks a pivotal moment in its foreign policy,
Transcript preview
Speaker 2 (0:00) Hi, I'm Juliette from New York Times Games, and I'm here talking to fans about our games. You Speaker 4 (0:05) play New York Times Games? Yes, every day. There's this little tab down here called Friends, so you can add your friend. That Speaker 3 (0:11) feels new to me. It Speaker 4 (0:12) is. It's Speaker 3 (0:13) nice to have the social aspect. Speaker 4 (0:14) Oh my god, and you have Oolay Times. That's crazy. Right? You can look at Spelling Bee, Wordle, Connections. Oh my god, amazing. Love that. I'd have to get Speaker 2 (0:22) the app. New York Times Games subscribers get full access to all our games and features. Subscribe now at nytimes.com slash games for a special offer. Speaker 3 (0:33) From the New York Times, I'm Michael Bavaro. This is The Daily. Speaker 6 (0:44) In recent days, the United States proposed new terms that run economic, unfair, and called into question the reliability of any deal. Speaker 3 (0:54) In a dramatic decision, the Prime Minister of Canada has abruptly cut off negotiations with the U.S. and delivered a message to President Trump that virtually no other world leader before him has dared to convey. that he'd rather engage in a prolonged and ugly trade war than submit to an unfair trade deal with this White House. Speaker 6 (1:19) In short, they asked too much and they offered too little. Speaker 3 (1:26) Today, my colleague, Canada Bureau Chief Matina Stevis-Gridnev, on the American demands that led to the breaking point and Canada's plan to withstand economic warfare with no end in sight. Speaker 6 (1:41) Why does it feel like today Mark Carney is going to war? Because we're attacked. You're at war when you get attacked. We got attacked. Speaker 3 (1:53) It's Tuesday, August 25th. Speaker 3 (2:01) Medina, welcome back. Always a pleasure. So good to be back, Michael. So I want to disclose something, which is that I have a cold, and as a result, I sound very gravelly. And just for listeners who are public health-minded, I'm going to acknowledge that you and I are not in the same room. You are in Canada. That Speaker 1 (2:19) is correct. I am in Toronto. You're in New York. You are so safe. I am so safe. I am sorry that you have a cold, and I hope you feel better soon. Thank Speaker 3 (2:28) you. But no one was infected in the making of this daily episode. No one in Canada, certainly. Nobody in Canada. You have enough problems as it is. So, Matina, it feels like Canada, the country you cover for The Times, has officially had enough. They are done with the United States. Speaker 1 (2:48) Yeah, I think that's a really... Good way of putting it. I think both the Canadian government and, frankly, the majority of Canadians are really done with the Trump administration. And that's why, over the past few days, you may have heard the Prime Minister, Mark Carney, come out and say, we're done with talking, we're walking away, we're now in a trade war with the United States. Speaker 3 (3:14) Right. It had all Speaker 1 (3:15) the earmarks of Speaker 3 (3:15) divorce. Speaker 1 (3:17) Sure feels that way. Maybe if we're going to be optimistic, let's say trial separation. But in all seriousness, I've been really closely following President Trump's commercial policy, economic policy with other countries, his fights with allies, and how so many of America's allies have fallen into line for him. And Mark Carney has decided to do something totally different. He's taking a massive bet. But he's just decided to walk away from President Trump and take the risk of enduring President Trump's economic and political targeting because he feels that President Trump is not going to make a good and fair and lasting deal with him. The pain and the terms are not worth it. Speaker 3 (4:12) And Speaker 1 (4:12) he's prepared to risk the country's economy on it. I mean, if you had to summarize the... Speaker 3 (4:18) bet that Prime Minister Carney is taking here. How would you describe it? Speaker 1 (4:24) I think Mark Carney is betting that his policies to make Canada stronger at home and build Canada's relationships with other countries in Asia and in Europe and to grow its economy and trade relationships are enough to keep Canada afloat and keep Canada growing, even as he turns his back on the United States. Speaker 3 (4:47) Well, just explain. how Carney gets to the point where he's willing to risk the entire Canadian economy and, as you say, do something that no other world leader really has been willing to do, which is to stand up to President Trump and say, basically, go fly a kite. I'm just not even going to participate in this game. Because I think most people have lost track of exactly... how it is in this very bumpy trade relationship we got to this very public and potentially catastrophic breaking point. Speaker 1 (5:26) I mean, as soon as President Trump comes back into office, I'm sure you'll remember because it wasn't really that long ago. It was like 18 months ago. He starts this policy of tariffs against basically every country under the sun, including... Maybe you'll remember this, this island that is only inhabited by penguins. I Speaker 3 (5:45) remember it from you. Speaker 1 (5:46) And the Trump administration has been clear that ideologically they're doing this because they believe this is the way to bring jobs and revenues back home, especially in key industries like the auto industry or the steel industry, that they feel globalization has weakened. And Canada is very directly targeted, but quickly... You see many countries, smaller, bigger, traditional allies, let's say Britain, the European Union, countries in Asia, come one after the other and make concessions in exchange for small improvements to their tariff regimes, like mini deals. Speaker 1 (6:28) But Canada holds out under Carney. And Carney sort of speaks about that in a way that's much bigger than the economy. And he develops a sort of doctrine, if you will, especially through this feted speech he gave in Davos in January this year. For Speaker 6 (6:46) decades, an American hegemony in particular helped provide public goods, open sea lanes, a stable financial system, collective security. and support for frameworks for resolving disputes. This bargain no longer works. Speaker 1 (7:01) Where he sort of frames this as a matter of survival in an era where Trump is just changing what America does in the world. And Speaker 6 (7:11) as a result, many countries are drawing the same conclusions, that they must develop greater strategic autonomy. Speaker 1 (7:17) And he says for our country to survive and for your countries to survive, all those countries that have long depended on the United States, we need to band together and we need to look out for ourselves outside the U.S. Speaker 6 (7:30) Let me be direct. We are in the midst of a rupture, not a transition. Speaker 1 (7:35) And he says nostalgia is not a policy. It's over. We all need to adapt to this new reality. Speaker 1 (7:45) And Carney just holds out. And among America's major allies, he holds out by far the longest. And Speaker 3 (7:55) just remind us what holding out against a pretty well-known, vindictive President Trump when it comes to trade wars means for Canada over these past 18 months. Speaker 1 (8:09) So for sure, Canada's been hurting over the last 18 months. President Trump has taken hefty tariffs against really core Canadian industries, steel, aluminum, softwood, lumber, autos. And Canada is almost in recession, despite huge efforts to keep it growing and to keep the economy going. But Carney's decided that he's going to stick to a policy of retaliatory tariffs. The only country to do this, other than China. He decides at certain points to roll those back a little bit. But overall, Canada keeps those policies in place. And one thing that really distinguishes Carney's approach to that of other countries is that he's not going to the White House seeking marginal improvements on specific tariffs. Instead, he's holding out. for a big discussion on the whole thing and improving everything in their relationship. He definitely doesn't want to be seen to be begging for minor concessions. He thinks it's extremely injurious for the Canadian economy. It's bad for the Canadian psychology. And it's bad for him personally to be seen going back to the White House cap and hat like so many other leaders have. And so he tries to pick the right moment. to approach the White House and say, all right, this is a good time. Why don't we sit down and really make a better deal for both our countries? Concessions on both sides and something we can both go home and feel good about. And that moment, the right moment, according to Carney, comes just a few weeks ago toward the end of July, when Trump threatens more