Marcus Samuelsson on Top Chef Success, Bouncing Back From Failure, and Showing Up!! (Part 2 of 2)

The Chef's Cut

In this second part of a two-part conversation, hosts Adrienne Cheatham and Joe Flam sit down with acclaimed chef Marcus Samuelsson to explore his

Key takeaways

• Samuelsson prioritizes mentee readiness over winning on shows like Top Chef, valuing authentic representation and impact over trophies.
• He builds trust by granting chefs creative ownership early, contrasting his approach with the rigid, months-long menu approval processes at places like La Bernardin.

Main topics

• Mentorship philosophy and Top Chef preparation
• Creative ownership and team trust dynamics

Notable quotes

"winning is kind of like, it's really out of your... so many things got to happen, but you can be sixth or seventh and have a huge impact."

Conclusion

Listeners gain a nuanced look at how Samuelsson balances high-level industry

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Thank you. Speaker 1 (0:14) Welcome back to The Chef's Cut. Today we are back for part two of our conversation with celebrity chef Marcus Samuelson. If you haven't yet heard part one, go ahead and check out our last episode for the full story. Speaker 1 (0:35) So how does it feel watching your chefs go do like Top Chef and like those things like Tristan won last season? You had Anthony on this year. You had me on before. Like, what does it feel like when these people that you've mentored and helped shape, you kind of send them out into the world and hope that they make it? But what is that feeling like? Speaker 3 (0:56) well, I think it's hard for them because I don't send them out until they're ready. And I would say like, listen, it's not about winning or, but I'm like, I did well, Adrian did well, you know, T did well. So if you're going to represent, you don't have to win, but you have to represent us well, right? Because winning is kind of like, it's really out of your, like so many things got to happen, but you can be sixth or seventh and have a huge impact. Like someone like Nina or someone like Naisha, right? Like they are amazing. They don't have to win, but it's like they had impact larger than themselves or Kamari or whatever it is, like amazing people. So it's like, make sure. And you know, if you're not ready, like I'm not calling top, not because you're not good enough cook, but maybe there's other things going on in your life and you're just not ready because you're going to get on. And when you're at that level, like I knew Anthony would get on. It was just about when, right? I knew Sherry would get on. It was just about a matter of when. Yeah, Sherry this Speaker 1 (1:57) year. Speaker 3 (1:58) Yeah, yeah, yeah. But for me, it's not about winning because that's so esoteric. There's so many things that can happen. Yeah, Speaker 1 (2:04) winning doesn't matter. No, it doesn't. Speaker 3 (2:07) You got to say that back and forth. Says the person Speaker 1 (2:09) who won Top Chef Masters and the person who won Top Chef. Okay, just saying. Speaker 3 (2:14) But it's really mentally you got to be ready. Yeah. Speaker 2 (2:19) Yeah, it's such a mental thing. And I think, you know, it brings up such a great point where, you know, you said you wanted to do this and you've done this. You know, I mean, these chefs you've mentored, you've brought so many. I think when we were talking to Tristan, maybe he was talking about it and he said, you know, you'll call him up or you'll call Adrian up and you'll be like, hey, who's the next person? You mean, who's the next person I need to talk to? But like when you sit down with these, how do you how do you look at talent? When you're finding a chef for a new spot and you have to sit down for a person, you know what I mean? Is it them cooking for you? Is it questions you ask? Like, I'm just so curious about, like, you know, because you've done it so well. Like, how do you begin that process? Speaker 3 (2:55) Well, some people can sneak up on you, right? Like, Tristan is a cooks, cooks, cooks. Camera, no camera. Tristan and I will always think about food, for good or bad, right? We're always in our head. If I text him right now. He's like, I was just thinking about this pork belly. I guarantee you, like, that's Tristan. And I'm very similar in that way. Like, we're always, I know, like, Tristan is, for me, like a cook's cook, always. Someone like Anthony that is a little more introverted, but skill-wise, incredible. So with Anthony, you got to pull it out and kind of push him and say, like, you can do this. No, no, that's not good. That's incredible. Keep working on that idea. That idea is not great. So when Anthony, he was more, he took time, it's years. You know, Anthony and I, it's six years, you know. And, you know, now he's completely fluent and can do all the things. So it's really, everyone is unique in their own way. There's also a lot of cooks in my... three that are not famous, but are just hugely influential in our team. I would say someone like Kingsley, for example, that everyone that ever worked with me knows things. Like Paul would say, who's your unk? King is your unk. Speaker 1 (4:14) Yep. Speaker 3 (4:15) Tristan, who's your unk? King is your unk. Kingsley. I went to see him in his Speaker 1 (4:20) pop-up here. Yeah. Kingsley is the man. Speaker 3 (4:25) are part of my tribe that I couldn't like now, like chef Ed and Greg, you know, chef Ed has this incredible hip hop series where he links rappers to food. Ed is the guy. Greg is the guy. Greg is like incredible chef. So without the team that very often informs me, no, you should look at this person. Because maybe I see to the sous chefs or maybe even to senior line cook, but Ed and Greg can see the person at prep and be like, no, no, no, no. Don't sleep on Diane. Don't sleep on this person. She came up with that. And that's how we pull them forward. Speaker 1 (5:06) The creativity and the level of ownership that you give the chefs is also something that I was telling Joe about. You know, he leads his team. He's, you know, four restaurants in Chicago. So he leads his team in a similar way to what I saw you do when I was, you know, with you and what I see you do with your teams now still. It's like I told them that when I was at La Bernardin, you would put up a dish to go on the menu and it could take months. to get to the menu. It could take tweaking, all this stuff. Whereas working with you, you're like, what special are you running tonight? Speaker 2 (5:42) I'm Speaker 1 (5:42) like, oh, I don't know. We got such and such in and I'm playing with this. I'll bring it up. Maybe by the end of the week, I got it. You're like, just run it. Run it tonight. Get feedback. Get guests. Send it to a couple of regulars. See what they have to say. And by the way, I'll be back at the restaurant in a couple hours. So fire one off for me then. Speaker 3 (6:01) And I Speaker 1 (6:01) was like, oh my God, I'm not used to this level. So you do put a lot of trust in your teams. And that was something that I hadn't seen before either working in hotels and restaurants was that level of trust that you give the chef. Speaker 3 (6:16) Well, I put that Speaker 1 (6:16) in Speaker 3 (6:16) you. And a couple of, I do it with the people who are ready, right? For you, I always feel that you were under, you had a lot of food in you and you were underrepresented. And the two things I always like went back for you was she's a former dancer. So she has discipline. Work ethic is not going to be an issue. You come from Chicago, from the South Side. So grit is not going to be an issue. Like actually, so like these, because we didn't know each other that well. So I'm like, no, look at her. And she worked at Libera Dance. So technique is not going to be an issue. Her issue is going to actually be confidence and get feedback. And when she's overthinking it and when she just doesn't know, like, how do you pair Mississippi with Chicago, right? Like, where is that? Oh my God, I feel so Speaker 1 (6:56) called out. Speaker 3 (6:58) So for me, it was more about, no, she needs actually to put more stuff out there and get called on when it's what's the difference between good to great, you Speaker 1 (7:07) know? Speaker 3 (7:07) And like, everything's going to be at a certain level. Everything's going to be good. And I always felt, you know, with you, it's always like. I always want to see Mississippi more and France less. Because I think you're like, nope, delicious is like the southern side. Speaker 1 (7:26) Right. And Speaker 3 (7:26) you are leaning always more France, which is great. That's you. So it's like, it's your food. It's not my food. It's your food, you know. But like, just from the beats, like I know about you, I said, no, Adrienne's going to be prepped. The technique's going to be flawless. She's going to work really hard at it. And there are notes there that is very classical. And then. Whenever she dares to go to the South, it's going to be incredible. Speaker 1 (7:49) Aw, chef. Aw, I'm so excited. Speaker 3 (7:52) That's reality. Speaker 1 (7:55) But Speaker 2 (7:55) I think that just explains why you've been so successful as a mentor, Speaker 3 (8:00) though. Speaker 2 (8:00) It's like you could tell the way you think about people is the same way you think about food, where it's like you're dissecting every part of it. And you're like, different approach for different things. That's like, it's such like... high level ball knowledge. You know what I mean? It's like watching a great coach or a great pitcher break down in that bat. And it's just incredible. It's like, you know, like obviously, you know, Adrian really well now, but it's like, man, that was an absolute, you know, like perfection breakdown of Adrian's game and who she is. And it's just like, you could just see it's like, oh yeah, this is,