Julia Curlee and Errin Haines: Cowards Are Running This Country

The Bulwark Daily - The Bulwark

This episode of The Bulwark Daily features two powerful conversations: first, a heartfelt plea to contact Senator Katie Britt regarding the detention of

Key takeaways

• The U.S. immigration system is failing vulnerable asylees who follow legal procedures but are still detained and denied basic care.

Main topics

• Immigration policy and humanitarian crisis
• LGBTQ+ representation in government

Notable quotes

"They're working with the policies of this administration. They did everything right... and yet they're still being kidnapped and held in this internment camp."

Conclusion

This episode calls attention to both urgent humanitarian failures in U.S.

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Hey, everybody, we have a monster doubleheader pod today. And there are two great conversations, but in particular, I'm going to ask you to stick around for the second conversation. It's so moving and raging, inspiring. But before we get to this, I got a favor to ask. I don't ask favors very often. JBL asked for favors in his newsletter, and people always reply. So I'm taking after his model. I'm asking for a favor right now. On the Bulwark Takes Feed, I know some of you guys are just pod only, but over on the Takes Feed, I told the story of the family. Fredy's and Edgariani, they're two asylees that came from Venezuela a few years ago with their daughter. Their daughter's currently seven. Edgariani's now pregnant with another child. They did everything right when they came to the country. They came through the legal asylee process. They checked in with their ICE appointments. They have legal work, learning English. Given the policies of this administration, it was obvious that they were not going to get permanent asylum. So when Edgar Yanni got pregnant, they decided to do exactly what the Trump administration asked, which was go to their CBP One app and sign up for self-deportation. And they can get on one of the self-deportation flights home. There have been many to Venezuela. They signed up for it when they went to check in at the ICE office. They were detained, shackled, and sent to the Dilley internment camp. They've been there seven weeks now. Edgar Yanni has not had access to medical care. Their daughter is not eating. has been saying horrifying things about how she wants to die and how she just wants to get out of there. All they want to do is go back to Venezuela. All they want to do is exactly what the Trump administration has asked for them. And yet they're still being kidnapped and held in this internment camp. And so they've written two letters to Katie Britt, the parents explaining their situation. And then the daughter drew her a picture, you know, in the hopes, you know, because she is chair of the subcommittee. of Appropriations on Homeland Security, and she had said that she cared about the boy in the blue bunny hat in Minnesota, and so they're just basically... writing these letters begging her, like, call someone, help us go home. Like, help us do what you guys have asked. They're working with the Texas Immigration Law Council. I spoke to a representative from there last night and said that since they sent the letters, they've not heard from Senator Britt. And so I'm asking you the favor, long line up there, the favor is if you're driving, do this later. But if you're just sitting at your computer, pause the podcast right now, contact Senator Britt's office. I'll put the stuff in the show notes. The phone number is 202-224-5744. There's an email form on her website, or I'm putting the email address of her chief of staff and the head of the subcommittee that oversees the relevant subject matter. Or just tweet at her. Her Twitter is at send Katie Britt, S-E-N Katie Britt. I put the letter and the drawing on my social media. I'll link to that. In the show notes, you can just send that to her if that's easier. And I guess I ask you to be nice. The point of this process is to help these people get out, not to vent your spleen and feel good about calling Katie Britt names as much as I would feel good about that as well. So the request is simply you ask these people to self-deport, let them self-deport. Stop interning them. Okay, stop torturing them. Let this pregnant woman get access to medical care. Get the seven-year-old out of the fucking prison camp. Don't cuss. Sorry. See, it's going to be hard. So if you can't control yourself like me, maybe don't call. Maybe draft the email and make it nice. I just think it's really important that they are dealt usually with this. And if Senator Katie Britt decides that she doesn't care about this after doing a big New York Times profile about how much she cared about the children and how they're being treated, then maybe we... we can try a different approach next week. That's where we're at. I appreciate everybody. It's a personal favor that you take the time to do this today. As far as today's show, as mentioned, segment two of this conversation with Julia Curley, she wrote about her story in The Atlantic this week. She was a top intelligence official, top, top intelligence official who worked in Trump 1.0, who briefed Vice President Pence daily. She was the person charged with briefing him. And then when Trump came back in a second time, she stayed to help with the transition, to help keep the country safe. She was the top intelligence official briefing the incoming Trump national security staff. She knew the administration's views about trans people, but she stayed anyway because she cared about the country. And I got a chance to speak to her and we focused on her story entirely. And it's unbelievably moving. And I think. If you're anything like me at the end of that, you'll just want to hear from more from Julia. And I've got good news. She's also going to go on the Mona Charit show this week where she'll talk about her area of expertise because we didn't really get into that, like the intelligence failures of this White House, what it means for Iran, and a bunch of other stuff. So I hope you enjoy our conversation and make a note to check out her conversation with Mona Charit as well. when that's up later this week. So that's what we got for you. First up, it's one of my old buddies from the circus to talk about some Democratic politics in the South. The results from Florida last night. Stick around. It's Aaron Haynes. Appreciate y'all. Speaker 1 (5:33) Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Daily. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Delighted to welcome back to the show. It's been a minute. She's the editor-at-large and co-founder of The 19th, an independent nonprofit newsroom. She's also the president of the National Association of Black Journalists and co-host of a new podcast, Long Play, that our friends at Crooked Media are putting out. It's about how the Democrats can win in the South. It's Erin Haines. What's up, girl? Good to see you. Speaker 2 (6:01) Tim, it's been too long, my friend, but I'm glad that we are back in action together. Speaker 1 (6:06) Me too. We're both aligned about focusing on the South right now. We're bulwark. We're doing a tour. We're coming to your neck of the woods. We're doing Charlotte, Columbia, Atlanta. Speaker 2 (6:16) That all makes sense. Is this where I RSVP? I mean, what am I doing? Speaker 1 (6:20) Yeah, exactly. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. We'll figure out where to kind of get you out on the road with us. But you've been traveling around. Yeah. On that show, Long Place. I want to talk about that, but really quick, we have some politics news last night I just want to get to. There's the Florida primary in this never-ending DSA versus moderates versus establishment war. It's a bit of a mixed bag. Last night, Jared Moskowitz and W. Austin Schultz, both kind of establishment, beat DSA challengers in their House races. And then in the Senate race, something interesting happened. Florida State Rep. Angie Nixon. who's a member of the DSA, black woman. She was a big advocate against Israel's actions in Gaza and has been an activist, state rep. She, a surprise victory over Alex Vindman, the Resistance One hero. I love Alex, friend of the show. But, you know, in a primary, I think it looked like we've seen this other places where Democratic voters are kind of interested in... and what DSA candidates are offering from a policy standpoint, also from a fight standpoint. And she was, another thing about Angie is that she was a big point person in fighting Ron DeSantis locally. And Alex had kind of moved to Florida. So I think that played a role as well. But anyway, wondering your thoughts when we saw a site in Florida and kind of this bigger picture of what we're seeing in these Democratic primaries. Speaker 2 (7:43) Yeah, I mean, look, Tim, that's pretty much my takeaway too, is that you're seeing these DSA candidates that are kind of bringing in folks who have felt disaffected for whatever reason, who are wanting somebody that they see as a fighter, particularly on the issues that they care about and are not wanting necessarily established candidates that they don't feel have been speaking for them. So, you know, what does it mean to have now, I mean, several of these kinds of candidates on the ballot headed into the general election, some number of them are going to get through. What does that mean for the future of the Democratic Party? I mean, I think that Both parties are really in the midst of their own respective reckonings about what the direction of the party is going to be, or at least how this faction of the party is going to factor into how the party politics are shaped going forward. And so them being in these races means that the issues that they care about are going to be in the conversation, right, headed into November and probably beyond that, right? Like there are lessons for what we are seeing in. the successes and the failures of these candidacies across the country in these primaries. I think that there are lessons for not just these midterm elections, but what is that going to mean for what the agenda is headed into 2028, obviously. Speaker 1 (8:58) I've got a hot take. Are you ready for it? Speaker 2 (9:01) I mean, hello. Again, Speaker 1 (9:04) love Alex. Nothing but respect for his service. But in the governor's race there, you have another never Trumper, another former Republican, David Jolly, as the nominee. He's got Gwen Graham, kind of moderate Democrat, as his lieutenant governor candidate. They're going up against Byron Donalds. And I think it's probably good for Jolly's chances that Angie Nixon won last night. I think that having kind of two never Trumper-ish people on the ticket. Two white guys. It's like a little bit of a tough sell to some parts of the Democratic base. And I think that in some ways this could be a lifting both votes situation where Nixon does help turn out younger voters, you know, voters of color, that maybe might not have been as excited about Ajali and Vindman on the top of the ticket. And, you know, they go out there, they turn out, they vote for the Democrat in the governor's race. David Jolly, I think, will probably do better, you know, in some of these more traditional kind of suburban, you know, districts where you have our people, the people that were Romney voters that have now been Democratic voters for a while. I don't know. I think the David Jolly race is kind of sneaky. I think it's going to be tough for Nixon, but we'll see. But I think that that governor is kind of sneaky and it might help him a little bit. One other thing, just as you mentioned, the reckoning is happening on both sides last night. On the good news standpoint, Corey Mills is awful. Republican got beat in a primary. So Republican voters act responsibly for once. How about that? And then less encouraging, there was like multiple, like literal Groiper anti-Semite white nationalist candidates on the ballot last night. And they got between like 10 and 20 % in the Republican primary. So they didn't win, but they won the college campuses. Speaker 2 (10:48) College Speaker 1 (10:48) Republicans are not all right. Right. Speaker 2 (10:50) I mean, I think too. This primary season has been very illuminating in terms of us. I mean, we're learning, obviously, a lot about voters, too, in this moment and kind of where they are, what their issues, what their priorities are. And so, yeah, I mean, even in races where we are seeing candidates lose, what those races can tell us about who the voters in that race. I mean, 10 percent, 20 percent of voters that are winning Speaker 1 (11:14) FSU campus. Right. It's Speaker 2 (11:16) a Speaker 1 (11:16) little alarming. What Speaker 2 (11:17) does that tell us about the electorate that's out there? Speaker 1 (11:20) Yeah. It tells us some bad things about where the Republican Party is going, but that's for another day. I want to talk about your, well, I guess it's kind of related to this. Certainly, Republican Party racism is intertwined with this question of Democrats winning the South, and in some ways cuts both ways. It hurts Democrats in various ways. In other ways, the Kalei decision, other things are motivating Democrats in the South. At the biggest picture, you know, with this project you guys are working on with Long Ploy, I'm wondering on kind of what you're learning, what you're thinking about the Democratic prospects across the South. Speaker 2 (11:56) Well, I mean, look, you know, Tim, you and I are both living in my favorite part of the country, the part of the country that shaped us, and frankly, the part of the country that has always shaped American politics, for better or for worse, right? I mean... As goes the South, so goes the nation. That's what W.E.B. Du Bois said, you know, over a century ago. So, like, what does it mean for us? Speaker 1 (12:16) Well, except for at Appomattox, but anyway, but most of the time. Speaker 2 (12:20) Listen, including Appomattox. That also shaped where we got to go Speaker 3 (12:25) as Speaker 2 (12:25) a country going forward, right? So, like, what does it mean for us to look at the South, to learn from the South, to listen to people in the South about what the issues that they care about? to be seeing up close the unfinished business of our democracy. I'm talking about race and how that's playing out across our politics. To think about the South as a place where we are seeing whether or not, like 250 years into this American democratic experience, like what does it mean when we are seeing people... who are literally contesting their ability to participate in this democracy freely and fairly and equally on the other side of that Calais decision. So, I mean, obviously couldn't have predicted that coming down at a better time for our show and for us to be in places like Georgia and Texas and North and South Carolina and Mississippi and Tennessee, like seeing, you know, the choices that lawmakers are making in this part of the country and how that's playing out. and particularly animating people to participate in how the South is changing. So many people are moving to our part of the country from other places, and they're bringing with that new ideas and new energy and saying, you know, look, places like North Carolina, where you have like almost 40 % of people saying that they are unaffiliated. By the way, that means independent. I learned that. I'm like, Speaker 1 (13:46) I've never heard Speaker 2 (13:47) this term anywhere else in the country, but like. 38 % of people that are unaffiliated, that means they don't have a team. That means that they're open. That means, you know, that they're wanting change. So much of, I think, what is motivating these midterms. But I think the climate that is in our country right now is, again, is feeling like a change election, at least, you know, on some of these down-ballot races. People are wanting something, someone different, someone who also is going to address their problems. It's not... about, you know, these candidates, the people that we're hearing from are saying, what are these people going to do to help me? Because I'm literally thinking about growing food because I can't, you know, afford groceries. I don't know what the stock price was out here, but I can tell you how much I paid for gas yesterday. Like these are the things that people, we're hearing directly from people. And I love. That like that's the thing that I love the most about this show. That's the thing I love most about my job and being a journalist is getting out and being able to hear directly from people about what their issues are not. I mean, look, love politics, love, you know, seeing candidates out there in action. But like, I don't want to hear them saying what, you know, articulating what they think the issues are to these voters. Like, what do the voters tell us about where they are and how that's influenced and how they head to the polls or not? Speaker 1 (14:58) I wonder what you're hearing in particular on Kalei. I mean, in particular from black voters, but also, you know, from white voters, other people who are just feel outraged by, you know, the kind of overturn of these sort of seminal protections that we've had for decades now in the South. And I was talking to a prominent, like... potential leader for the Democratic Party. So it was off the record. I'm trying to think how to say that. I don't usually do that on the podcast. I don't usually do the anonymous thing on the podcast, but I've got to, I like to keep it real on the podcast, but I also have to be respectful. And this was their question, right? Like also like to me living here, right? And I'm curious to you, you know, out there doing this reporting, like, is the backlash real? Like, is it just on social media among activists that were already, you know, activated? Like, what's your sense for kind of the reaction to Clay? Speaker 2 (15:49) No, it's absolutely real. Look, when we were on the ground in states across the South, unprompted people are bringing up the gutting of the voting rights act and what they felt like that was going to mean for them personally and also for the future of our politics. Look, I mean, I think for Black folks, we're seeing over and over again in these primary elections, but also just the mood this summer, like this is animating Black people. Like when you try to take away... Black people's voting rights, the rights that so many people fought and bled and died for in this country, you know, that means something. That is something that is only going to motivate them to show up more, to fight harder, and to push back and say, you know, no, like, this is not something that's going to happen. We are not going backwards. We're certainly not giving up our rights, even as, you know, there are folks that would seek to take them away. And so, like, you saw You know, these southern states moving so quickly in the wake of the Calais decision to redraw maps, people coming out to state capitals to make their voices heard. And by the way, that was an intergenerational, multiracial coalition in a lot of cases at these capitals. And so I think that what that signals to me. is that there are also certainly some number of white people in the South who were saying, this is not the South that represents me. This is not who I want to be. This is not what I want. This region of the country, this is not the message that we want to be sending. And so they're standing up and they're speaking out. But I think, look, we got to be real. You're talking about speaking the truth. Like there are also clearly some number of white people who are in the South who are trying to use the racial. and other culture war, you know, playbook to continue to maintain power and to animate a certain number of folks in a way that has been effective in traditionally speaking in our politics. And so, you know, for those who would suggest that there is no racial motivation behind gerrymandering, when we are seeing the impact of maps being drawn, the ones that were able to be successfully drawn, I think it is telling. That this is the way that folks think that they can maintain power because they understand that Black voters and what they have been able to do on the other side of the 1965 Voting Rights Act has been powerful. And it is that power that is being