The Five Success Wounds: The Mental Roadblocks Holding You and Your Business Back

the bossbabe podcast

Executive coach Brooke Taylor joins Natalie to explore the 'success wound,' a psychological pattern where high-achieving individuals mistake achievement for

Key takeaways

• The 'success wound' is defined as the pain stemming from the belief that worthiness is contingent upon production rather than inherent goodness.
• Brooke Taylor identifies five archetypes: The Grinder, The Pleaser, The Hider, The Seeker, and Work Hard/Play Hard.
• Parentification in firstborn daughters is linked to increased perfectionism and decreased self-esteem in adulthood.
• The psyche consists of three parts: the wounded self (pain), the protector self (defense mechanisms), and the true self (intuition and confidence).
• Brooke Taylor shares her experience of managing $80 million in revenue at Google while navigating sexual harassment and 10 years of sobriety.

Main topics

• Success Wound Archetypes
• Parentification and Birth Order
• The Three Parts of Psyche

Notable quotes

The success wound... is the pain that comes from mistaking success for self-worth.

Conclusion

The episode offers a transformative framework for entrepreneurs to dec

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) By the time I was 24, I was managing $80 million in advertising revenue. And three things happened in succession that really caused me to change everything. The first is that my dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer at the age of 60 and given three years to live. The second is that I was sexually harassed by my direct manager at Google. And then the third is that it became very evident that I had a Speaker 1 (0:22) problem with Speaker 2 (0:22) alcohol. What Speaker 1 (0:23) might look from the outside as Speaker 2 (0:24) like a typical 20-something, but from the inside, it was like... severe anxiety, depression, and alcoholism. One Speaker 1 (0:30) thing you say, which feels personal, is firstborn daughters, the eldest daughter is way more likely to burn out. There is a big success wound there. Speaker 2 (0:40) That's almost like an example of what's called being a parentified child. And the research shows that the child who is expected to behave as a parent, a co-parent in the house, that is then correlated later in life with an increase of perfectionism, a decrease of self-esteem, and the expectation that, again, my worthiness, maybe yours, of like love and belonging to my parents was being like the responsible older sister. So Speaker 1 (1:08) good. Okay, let's get into the success wounds. Every single woman listening to this is about to see themselves described very well. Speaker 2 (1:15) Oh, good. Okay. So these five are like the most common constellation of behaviors or archetypes that show up as a mean to keep us safe, certain, and Speaker 1 (1:23) in control. Speaker 2 (1:23) So the first one is the grinder. Speaker 1 (1:29) So you talk a lot about the women that have this success wound. They often come from big companies, you know, McKinsey, Google, fill in the blank. A lot of my listeners actually don't have anyone else to blame. They are the ones that built the businesses. They built the launch calendars. They put the deadlines in place themselves. but I would argue still have very much of the same success wound. So in that situation, what is to blame? What's underneath that? Speaker 2 (1:58) Yeah. So the success wound, and it's kind of like basic definition, is the pain that comes from mistaking success for self-worth. And it's a belief that we all inherit as kids, that our worthiness of love and belonging is contingent upon what we produce, achieve, and do, rather than the inherent goodness of who we are. So, you know, Speaker 1 (2:19) As Speaker 2 (2:19) we grow up and maybe decide to start a business, that can become intensified, probably in my experience, so much more when you are a small business owner and when you are trying to build your business than when you do work at a Google or a McKinsey. Because first of all, that identity of being a business owner is so tied to who you are, such that the outputs, your results, what your clients think about you feels like a direct reflection Speaker 1 (2:45) of your value as a person. Whereas sometimes, Speaker 2 (2:47) you know, you can hide behind, well, the Google brand or the McKinsey brand or like that corporate brand, but there's nowhere to hide when you're a business owner. And so it can feel so personal. It can feel so deflating when things don't go your way. And that is what causes us to really ride like the highs and lows of entrepreneurship. And so my work with a lot of my clients is to help them hold, you know, their business objectives and their ambition in one hand and their self-worth in another hand and have them both. you know, kind of flourish in the way that we want them to. Speaker 1 (3:18) Yeah. And one thing I really love about your book and the way you talk about all of this is you actually don't need to quit the job or burn the business down to do this. In fact, 60 % of the career women you worked with didn't even quit the job, but they changed their approach to it. Can you talk a little bit about that? Speaker 2 (3:35) Yes, that's right. And that's what I find to be so heartening about this is the fact that You don't have to shut your business down. You don't have to leave the job that you've built that you care so much about. Fulfillment really comes from how you work, not necessarily what you do for work. And Speaker 1 (3:51) I know that might be a little bit like, are you sure? Especially for people who are so passionate Speaker 2 (3:54) about what they do. But passion and purpose and loving the content of your work is only really 40 % of it. The other 60 is how am I approaching my work? So I have an example of a client. Her name is Sarah. And she was about to leave the business that she's just spent 14 years building. I'm sure you hear this all the time. It's like, I'm at a breaking point. Been Speaker 1 (4:14) there. Speaker 2 (4:15) Yeah, been there. Yeah, me too. And it's like, she said, I feel like my clients have become my bosses. And I've just, I've created the same cage that I thought I had left 14 years ago. And so she was, she was like, I'm coming to you to be like, should I shut this down? Or, you know, what can I change? And we really got to work. I gave her this test and this is something that anybody can use. I call it like the $10 million test. So I was like, Sarah, imagine I had a blank check for $10 million and it has your name on it. And all you have to do is figure out a way to shift your working patterns and shift your relationship with work in order to get that $10 million. I was like, what are all the things that you would do? And she made a list that day. She was like... okay, I guess I would, you know, set expectations differently at the beginning of my client relationships. Or, you know, I guess I would shut my laptop at 8pm. Or I guess I would maybe cut the toxic client that has been like the good paycheck, but, you know, has become too expensive. So she had, at the end, she had like 30 different actions that she could take. And slowly but surely, like week over week, she did those and she was able to really reposition the business that she had. Speaker 1 (5:26) So good. Okay, one thing you say, which feels personal, is firstborn daughters, the eldest daughter is way more likely to burn out. Now, I really believe this too. I see this a lot. In fact, I seem to make friends mostly with eldest daughters. And I'm one of eight. I'm the eldest daughter of eight kids. So I see this and I think there is a big success wound there. Can you go into a bit of that? Speaker 2 (5:53) Yeah. Yeah, so... I am not one of eight, but I am one of three. And I have a much younger sister. Like I have a sister who's eight years younger. And for whatever reason, I'm curious if this was your experience too. I felt like she was my baby in a weird way. Like I liked to dress her. I liked to play with her. Did you have that relationship with any of your siblings? Speaker 1 (6:11) I'm 34 now and my youngest brother is 15. So I did move out when I was 13. Lots of chaos in the household, but still had a very different relationship with the younger ones. It was less of that sibling. You feel like you need to take care of them and it's just different. Yes, exactly. Speaker 2 (6:30) That's almost like an example of what's called being a parentified child. And the research shows that it's really the parentified child, the child who is expected to behave as a parent, a co-parent in the house, that is then correlated later in life with an increase of perfectionism, a decrease of self-esteem, and the expectation that, again, my worthiness, maybe yours, of like, love and belonging to my parents was being like the responsible older sister. And so this study actually came out like this year. It's very fresh. And they said that it's not necessarily birth order, but it's that parentification that's correlated and causal with those later in life outcomes in the workplace. So most often it is the firstborn daughter that's parentified. But if you're listening and you're like the second daughter or maybe like the third or maybe your older sibling had mental health issues or behavioral issues or something and you were expected to rise up, you could have the same impact too. Or Speaker 1 (7:31) if you had to parent your parents. Yes. I see that a Speaker 2 (7:35) lot too. That's a really good point. Yeah, that's exactly right. So, you know, in my upbringing, I remember this one time, my brother, he might kill Speaker 1 (7:42) me for saying Speaker 2 (7:42) this, but like he was caught smoking weed. And I knew, I knew it for like a year that he was doing that, but I kept the secret. And I got in more trouble than he did because I kept the secret. And there was an expectation that I would have, you know, shared that, like maybe convinced him not to, essentially like be a parent to him. And that was like a real paradigm shift for me. And I was like, okay, I guess I have to be, again, like the responsible one, the one that takes on things that. aren't mine to own, the one that behaves in a more mature way. It felt like my childhood like ended in that moment. And so no wonder we grow up into adults that later in life are expected to, you know, pick up the slack or maybe do the work you paid somebody else to do, right? Like take ownership over things, which of course can be a huge asset, right? But the downside is that it can lead to burnout and disengagement later on. Speaker 1 (8:34) And I also see it not just in the workplace too, but just general over-functioning in relationships, people pleasing, you know, taking on way too much, thinking your worth is in how much you do. How much do you see this, yes, in the workplace, but then just affect every part of these women's lives? Speaker 2 (8:52) Yeah, it Speaker 1 (8:53) really is Speaker 2 (8:54) endemic and like chronic. So the way, like almost like the paradigm that I view this through is that success wound. So if you just like link it over, we all have... these images of the ideal or like a good working woman that we should be. I'm curious for what yours is. Mine is like this idea of the effortless entrepreneur, that her revenue goes up into the right, you know, like quarter over quarter perfectly. She's invited into all the right rooms, all the great podcasts. It's like effortless, right? Some of the clients that I speak with are like, you know, the image of the perfect working woman is like the well-balanced woman who can do it all. I think Speaker 1 (9:32) that's mine. Mm, yeah. Speaker 2 (9:34) She's a great mom. She works out. She can take care of herself. And she has this multimillion dollar business. Speaker 1 (9:39) Yeah. Tough, Speaker 2 (9:40) right? But again, that is what links to, you know, this notion that we develop early on of like, I need to live up to an ideal of success rather than who I actually want to be. And so that can then turn us into entrepreneurs where it's like, if it's not all systems go, if I'm not always living up to my sky high expectations, then I'm not enough. And that's the trap. Speaker 1 (10:04) I think that's the root of so much, just not feeling good enough. And especially too, as a working mom, when you are split in so many different ways, it can be really challenging to ever feel like you're doing enough. Speaker 2 (10:17) Do Speaker 1 (10:17) you feel like the work you did on yourself before having your baby, I mean, you were writing this book when you were pregnant, it was probably the best medicine. How has that impacted how you parent? Yeah, Speaker 2 (10:27) a couple different ways. That was like the big question that was on my heart. And a lot of people, you know, are curious about, which is like, how do we raise kids that love to achieve, but also love themselves? And that was the question. I was like, what, you know, what is that? What, even, you know, talking to some of my clients, they're like, my parents did their best. It was all very well-meaning. We're not, you know, pointing the finger. I always say our success wound. is not our fault, but it is our responsibility. Speaker 1 (10:56) And Speaker 2 (10:56) so I think, you know, some of the research says that when we're parenting our kids, the part of the brain that is responsible for intelligence and achievement is not the same part of the brain that's responsible for resilience and relationship Speaker 1 (11:10) making. Wow, interesting. Yes. And Speaker 2 (11:12) so when we're reinforcing for kids, intelligence, grades, and achievement, we're growing that part of the brain. But when we're reinforcing to them things like resilience, like how do we make meaning from setbacks? You fell, you Speaker 1 (11:25) got back up. Speaker 2 (11:26) And we have to be that for our kids because they can't make meaning from these, like, you know, these things. It takes that level of maturity to be like, you didn't make the JV, but look at all the friends you've made in this other sports team or, you know, stuff like that. And Speaker 1 (11:39) then Speaker 2 (11:39) the other part is relationships. How do we make friendships? Because resilience and relationships are... are the biggest factors that determine long-term happiness and success. It's not achievement and intelligence. So just really being aware of how am I reinforcing resilience and relationships with my kid and like modeling that a little bit. And how am I making meaning of even like my successes for my kid? Speaker 1 (12:04) So good. Okay, let's get into the success wounds. I have a feeling I know which ones I am, but I would love for you to explain. The different wounds. And then maybe you can, if you want to diagnose me, feel free. But I really think every single woman listening to this is about to see themselves