The Pen Pal

The Binge Cases: What She Buried

This episode of 'What She Buried' explores the complex and layered story of Quenetta Harris, a woman convicted of murder who became a pen pal with journalist Justine Vanderloon.

Key takeaways

Women convicted of murder often face harsh punishment not for their actions but because they defy traditional gender roles by engaging in violence.
The prison system fails to address mental health and trauma, leading to complex identities that resist simple categorization.

Main topics

Women in prison and their portrayal as monsters
Trauma, abuse, and self-defense as motivations for violence

Notable quotes

"Well-behaved women seldom make history. But badly behaved women also seldom make history."

"I've yet to encounter these monsters, although I've met plenty of women with mental illness, untreated, and undiagnosed."

Conclusion

The episode reveals how deeply personal and layered the stories of incarcerated women are, challenging both media

Transcript preview

Speaker 8 (0:00) Something is happening in Dawson Creek. A wave of violence has swept over this community of just 13,000 people. Speaker 6 (0:07) It's like the kind of stuff you only hear about on TV. Speaker 8 (0:10) 15 murders in the last five years. Some criminals, I put them into the category of supervillains. I'm Timothy Sawa, and from CBC's Uncover and The Fifth Estate, an investigation into deaths and disappearances in Dawson Creek, and what's behind it all. Speaker 4 (0:26) I'm not saying another word. Leave me alone. Speaker 8 (0:28) The Mile Zero Murders, available now on CBC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 4 (0:33) Listen to every episode of What She Buried ad-free right now when you subscribe to The Binge. You'll hear the entire series before anyone else, get exclusive bonus episodes, and unlock more than 60 other true crime podcasts. Just head to the Binge channel on Apple Podcasts and tap subscribe or visit getthebinge.com to listen wherever you are. The Binge. Feed your true crime obsession. The Binge. Speaker 2 (1:10) You know that quote, well-behaved women seldom make history? You've seen it on bumper stickers, mugs, Instagram grids. Speaker 4 (1:21) It means, unless a woman boldly breaks convention, she's going to fade into oblivion, just folding laundry until she dies. I like it. I Speaker 2 (1:32) get it. But I'd counter that badly behaved women also seldom make history. You can't actually break too many rules, especially if you're the wrong type of woman to begin with. Speaker 4 (1:48) I've been reporting on women in prison for eight years now. I have a new book out on the topic. It's called Unreasonable Women, a slightly sarcastic title. It's about how many so-called murderers were actually making quite sensible decisions, often to defend themselves or a loved one from abuse. And yet they're painted as cold-blooded killers. Because these women? They ventured into a field traditionally reserved for men. Violence. And for that, they've been severely punished. Disappeared far away. Wiped clean from history. Usually. Speaker 1 (2:28) Alright, so did you, are we starting? We've been rolling. Okay, we're good. This is our beginning. Hi. Hello. So, how are you? Speaker 6 (2:40) Tired. One day at a time. Speaker 4 (2:51) Not long ago, I found myself with my producer Eric in the visiting room of a vast women's Speaker 1 (2:57) prison in central Texas. Across from me, speaking into a telephone receiver, from behind a wall of bulletproof glass, was a woman I'd been Speaker 2 (3:07) corresponding with for five years. Speaker 1 (3:10) Her name is Quenetta Harris. So, okay, I mean, obviously, I'm so glad I get to finally meet you in person. Finally. I didn't think it was ever going to happen. But now here we are. Speaker 8 (3:22) Here we are. Speaker 1 (3:25) And I wish that we had more time and could have a more natural conversation. I know. We're pressed for time. They only give us like an hour. Yeah. And we get busy. Yeah, so instead of what I would like to do, which is... Sit and gossip. Sit and gossip and relax and talk. I'm going to be asking a little bit more in terms of just like some questions. I know. Speaker 4 (3:46) Quinetta was dressed in prison whites. She's a black woman in her 50s. Taller than I had anticipated. More commanding. And her hair was long, wavy, past her shoulders. She Speaker 2 (4:01) was wearing this pair of gigantic state-issued sunglasses. She's losing her vision. Texas prison health care is notoriously lacking. Speaker 1 (4:12) I couldn't see her eyes. This is kind of going to be your story. This whole thing that we're looking at. This whole... I don't even... I don't know. Speaker 1 (4:28) It's so complicated, Quinetta. I don't know if you know about this. It's so complicated. So just multi-layered. Confusing. Speaker 6 (4:40) Yeah, very confusing. Speaker 1 (4:42) Are you confused? Speaker 4 (4:42) I've been confused. Confused. That was an understatement. I first got to know Quinetta as a pen pal of sorts. And through our years-long correspondence, I learned about her past and what brought her to prison. Like so many women I've reported on, she had a history of abuse and trauma. For such women, killing can mean an end to their torment. And I'd wanted to make this podcast because I thought that story deserved to be told. And Quinetta agreed. But the more I dug in, the more people I talked to, the more I realized that my initial concept of Quinetta, of what she'd been through, and what she'd done, it flattened her. At first, I thought Quenetta's narrative would move from point A to point B pretty easily. But soon, I learned that with Quenetta, there were no straight lines. Only a labyrinth, elaborate and disorienting. Speaker 6 (5:43) When they meet her, it's like they're on a high. And then slowly but surely, you know, that high comes down. Holy cow. Speaker 5 (5:51) She's just, I said, this is not true. This, it didn't happen like you said, did it? Speaker 1 (5:57) Did you think it was a good idea? Speaker 6 (5:59) No. I told, no. I told them why it wasn't a good idea. Sometimes when you're a light, you attract, you know, darker entities. I had girls in the kitchen, everywhere. Speaker 5 (6:15) One Speaker 6 (6:15) time she shouted at me. Speaker 1 (6:17) Did she? Speaker 5 (6:19) Hey, listen, there's a lot going on back there. Speaker 1 (6:24) Turned out, there were many versions of Quinetta's story. And almost every single version contradicted the one before. She's Speaker 3 (6:33) loving. She's a mentor. Speaker 7 (6:35) How am I in trouble? I didn't have no teenage Speaker 6 (6:37) dig no hole. We Speaker 5 (6:38) had our computers and our cell phones. You know, how to kill someone without leaving a mess. How to clean blood off a couch. And he scribbled a signature on it. And there goes the money. I Speaker 3 (6:49) thought that was rather clever. I kind of, I kind of thought. Speaker 4 (7:00) By the time I was sitting across from Quinetta, in that Texas women's prison, I was thoroughly perplexed. Prosecutors and the state depicted Quinetta as a ruthless killer, and worse. I had known someone very different, someone smart and insightful, someone I considered almost a friend. But when I really dug into her past, I was confronted with far more complexity than I ever anticipated. And now, I was trying to make sense of a person and a story that was all wrapped up in the deepest truths and the thorniest lies. So what do you do when you don't get the story you're planning, the story you thought would adhere to a relatively clean narrative? What do you do when you come face to face with somebody who simply won't fit into any mold? Well, I was about to find out. Speaker 1 (8:01) So what happened? Because you never really told me. Speaker 1 (8:06) I don't know if you can, but if you are comfortable, I would ask if nobody asked. I mean... But I prefer you, if you don't, if you're not going to tell me it accurate, I prefer you don't. Yeah, I'm thinking back to, let me circle back around. Speaker 4 (8:26) From Sony Music Entertainment and Campside Media, this is What She Buried. I'm Justine Vanderloon. Episode 1, The Pen Pal. Speaker 4 (8:50) One of the first things I did when I set out to write my book, Unreasonable Women, was to create a survey. 16 questions, which I sent out to 10,000 women in 55 facilities across 27 states. More than 1,000 completed surveys made it back to me. Not a bad batting average. There were stories of neglect and poverty, of enduring assaults, of having no home and no food, of domestic and sexual violence. of the system failing people again and again. And there was one response that really stood out. It was a letter saying why the writer, Quenetta Harris, wouldn't participate. Quenetta, who had been accused and convicted of murder, she had no interest in the questionnaire, but she was interested in corresponding with me. Speaker 2 (9:43) She began, I don't usually reply to reporters. I find that they're only concerned with the salaciousness of the story. Speaker 2 (9:53) I got where she was coming from. Speaker 4 (9:55)