The "Invincible" Rams, NFL Pressure Guys, and L.A.’s Crazy NBA Month With Tom Pelissero and Sam Koppelman

The Bill Simmons Podcast

In this episode of The Bill Simmons Podcast, host Bill Simmons welcomes NFL insider Tom Pelissero and NBA analyst Sam Koppelman to discuss the high-stakes dynamics of the Los Angeles

Key takeaways

• Tom Pelissero's career as an NFL insider is built on years of cultivating sources and maintaining discretion during high-pressure situations.
• The Rams are under immense pressure to deliver after a strong offseason, with expectations heightened by their star-studded roster.

Main topics

• Tom Pelissero's new role as Netflix sideline reporter
• NFL insider culture and the art of breaking major stories

Notable quotes

"I lived my own funeral for like four hours." – Tom Pelissero, describing his emotional state after being let go from ESPN.

Conclusion

The episode paints a vivid picture of how media, money, and pressure converge in modern professional

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:05) The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new Rewatchables on Monday. We redid Speed. Me, Sean Fantasy, Chris Ryan. An epic, epic episode. I think I laughed so hard at one point that we had to go to break. So that happened. Anyway, what a fun movie. One of the great action movies of all time. And we broke all of it down, including a ton of nitpicks. Speed, a movie that I love and I've seen a million times. Also very fun to nitpick. So we talked about everything. Coming up on this podcast, Tom Palacero, who we announced yesterday, he's joined in the ringer. He's going to be Netflix sideline reporter as well. He's going to come on and talk about a bunch of football stuff, including what's it like to be an info insider? What's going on with the Rams? Who has the most pressure on them this year? What's going on in Minnesota with JJ McCarthy, Kyler Murray? We covered all of it. Great to have him aboard. And we're going to talk about his new gig with us. And then after that, Sammy Koppelman. who I've known since he was maybe even younger than a teenager. He is going to come on to talk about the Lakers, the Clippers, the Suns, how money has shifted into the NBA and screwed it up in all these different ways. Yesterday was one of the craziest LA basketball days, I think, ever. We had the Clippers battling with the NBA through an ESPN article. You had the Buss family announcing that they're going to start suing each other. Speaker 1 (1:31) Current Lakers Dodgers owner might be going to jail. He's going to explain all of it to us. So this is quite a podcast. Football and finance. It's all next. We're going to take a break and then Pearl Jam. This episode is brought to you by NBA 2K27. We just had one of the craziest off seasons we've had in the NBA, which is perfect for 2K because every 2K season could be one of the craziest off seasons. The whole league shifted in real life. It could shift to an NBA 2K27. The best place to compete with these new look rosters and also try to figure out who's on what roster. You can see how. new teams and new dynamic duos match up. You can play Philly, feel what it's like to have all their new guys with the old guys. And you can also take a struggling franchise to the NBA finals if you want, because it'll never happen in real life for a couple of the struggling franchises. You know how I'm talking about. Anyway, NBA 2K lets you experience every transaction and storyline right from your home. Pick up your copy of NBA 2K. 27 right now. Speaker 1 (3:07) All right, announced yesterday, new Netflix sideline reporter for all their NFL games, one of the hosts of the Ring of the NFL show. He's going to be on my podcast every Thursday. There's going to be some writing stuff that we'll talk about when we get there. Tom Palacero, great to have you aboard. What a pleasure. Speaker 3 (3:24) It is great to be here. A bit of an unusual past month for me. After 23 years of being in training camps and covering the league, I had a little bit of extra time. on my hands, but you were one of the first people to reach out to me once I became available. And I'm just totally thrilled and pumped up to be a part of this thing. The Speaker 1 (3:47) story was even better than that. We saw you the same day when you found out that you were no longer needed at ESPN and you were randomly in LA. Me and Mallory met you that day because we'd heard so many good things about you. But in your head, I really admired how even-keeled you were with it. Because I remember when I was in a semi-similar situation, everybody in your life is reaching out. Are you okay? What's going on? And your head's just doing 360s. But you were like, yeah, it'll be fine. I'll find something. I remember you said to me too, you're like, I Speaker 3 (4:19) can't believe how well you're taking this. And I think that that was partly a product of, you know, I find out when I'm standing in the Sky Club about to board a flight to LA. And I'm like, what do I do? And I'm like, oh, I checked a bag. Well, I guess I should just get on the plane and get the bag. And yeah, I lived my own funeral for like four hours. It was probably good to like every call I sent to voicemail, like I'm on a plane, I'm not available. And by the time I landed, dropped myself at the hotel, popped over to a... to your studio there and got the tour. I mean, it was, it was cool that it all, it all came together. There were a lot of things we had to work through on this entire deal, but I mean, the ringer and Netflix and the synergy between those two, like I could not possibly have asked for a better spot to be here. Speaker 1 (5:07) Yeah. And we had never even dated back to Grantland. We never had really been on the information side as much because we were always built, like we react to the information. And I always thought if we ever had somebody who is in that world, it would also have to be somebody who could kind of do the stuff that we do and the back and forth. And you're always a hybrid of those two worlds. When did you move more toward like, holy shit, I'm getting all this information. I'm getting scoops left and right. Like this might be part of my life here. Speaker 3 (5:38) I think it took place over time. Like there's, there's no way that's what, you know, young people who like reach out to me and my, my DMS and whatnot are always asking like, how do you build source and stuff like that? I'm like, I don't know, do it for 23 years. And you just kind of amass that, you know, you start out. cold calling people and hoping that you get some calls back. And, you know, it just kind of evolved. I think when I went back to Minnesota in like 2010, and we were launching an ESPN radio affiliate there, and I was covering the Vikings, mostly radio shows six days a week. Like I had a pretty good run of getting stuff there, which put me on the radar of USA Today. And then you know, to NFL Network. And then obviously the brief Disney stop there over the past several months. It was funny, though, like during the downtime, because like, you know, not to get into the whole thing, but like legally, I couldn't do anything like I couldn't tweet, couldn't really just I couldn't do anything that loosely resembled my job. And so like I'm finding stuff to do, man, like, you know, people are calling me within the league and I'm talking, but like I'm not doing it the same way. Right. So it's like, what am I going to do? Work to get a scoop and then I can't. put it out. So, you know, by last week and at this point, everything was in motion, but there were still some things we had to get through. And like, I went to Spider-Man 3D in the theater with my 12 year old daughter and literally like we're five minutes into the movie and shit's blowing up. And like, I get the text or the tweet alert, like, you know, Kyler Murray's been named starting quarterback of the Vikings. So I'm like. Well, none of that good. None about that. You know, whatever world I would love to think I would be the one breaking that. But I'm like, what am I going to do? I'm going to sit back. I'm going to eat some more popcorn. I'm going to enjoy this smoothie and like I'll be back soon enough. And so we're just now kind of getting into this thing. And the best part, Bill, about the news coming out yesterday, besides the fact that, you know, it's always awesome just seeing, you know, the feedback and all the messages you get and stuff. But it's that I'm finally not getting the so sorry for you. How are you doing? Praying for you calls. Now it's like that. Oh, so you're good? All right, fantastic. Now we get back to doing what we're doing. Oh, that's great. Speaker 1 (7:36) I'm glad Speaker 3 (7:36) to be back. Speaker 1 (7:37) What was the, what's the biggest scoop you ever had? Did you ever have one that was like, it was almost steam coming off it? You couldn't believe, like, is this true? Like, did you have your version of like, Luca's about to get traded to the Lakers? Speaker 3 (7:50) There's a bunch of those over time that, you know. stick out just in terms of like trades that come from like, well, you know, a lot of the best scoops, the ones that Speaker 1 (7:58) are Speaker 3 (7:58) most fun, honestly, are the ones like you're not working on and holding for a month. Cause that's unbelievably stressful. It's when someone will be like, you know, like, you know, Hey, do you know what Darren Waller being traded to the giants? It's like, what? No. And then you make two calls. Like, Oh, this happened. Okay, cool. Right. I'd say that like the number one example of that was John Gruden resigning because that took place during Monday night football. And I had heard. You know, rumblings. I knew that there was I knew that it was at a much higher fever pitch over the previous like 48 to 72 hours in terms of, you know, how the league was feeling about it, you know, where the Raiders were at, the fact that there were multiple, if you remember, multiple stages of these email leaks and it was getting worse. But still, I don't think it was on anybody's radar that he was actually going to step down. And so. I got, you know, one call saying, hey, you know, I heard Gruden stepping down. Just like, wait, because, you know, he's got to talk to everybody. Just hang on and let you know. And then I get a text from somebody who was there going, yeah, Gruden just told all of us he's quitting. He's resigning. And I was just like, oh, my gosh, I'm calling the first person back being like, I got to go. I got to go. Meanwhile, you know, again, Monday Night Football is on. The whole world's trained on this game. And I think it was right at halftime or right after halftime. And I hit blast on that tweet. And it was just like, it was this explosion because that was at that time, Bill, like it wasn't about football. It was about like social issues and, you know, everything around the game and in society. And, you know, it was a really bizarre situation. But that was one like there's very few times I'm saying like finger over the button kind of shaking. That was one that I'm like, I'm going to have to go. I got to go. And finally. went and that it went into the universe and then, you know, had to get myself suited up and go on TV all night. Cause I mean, that was one of the crazier things I think that that's happened in recent NFL history. Speaker 1 (9:48) What is the NFL version of the Luca trade? I guess probably nothing. Speaker 3 (9:52) I mean, the fact that it stayed so quiet until you get, you know, a tweet out of nowhere that it's, it's happening. I mean, that. That made it interesting. I mean, Miles Garrett, I think probably fits in that category. You'd add rumblings and stuff talked about. Speaker 1 (10:07) Yeah, I'd say it wasn't, I guess there's no version of it because Miles Garrett was like, holy shit, but I wasn't shocked because it was like- Russell Speaker 3 (10:14) Wilson, maybe. I mean, Russell Wilson was a pretty surprising trade. Like there'd been little rumblings here and there about stuff. That was one that was murder for me because like I knew at the combine, it was happening. All that the Seahawks and Broncos were doing for weeks was just horse trading on how many picks. And if you remember- I mean, it was multiple first round picks and it was players. And then it was, all right, the players haven't been told. I'm like, I know the players. And so then you're calling and people be like, find out if he's been called yet. You know, that was a wild one. The cool thing, like in terms of how long I've covered the NFL is we've gone, Bill, from like the NFL, there were no trades. There were no trades at all. Like there was no, like the trade deadline was a non-event. And I'm not talking like, you know, 50 years ago. I'm talking like. 10 to 15 years ago like it'd be yeah the trade deadline's coming up in late october but like nothing's gonna happen you might get one here or there now both you know there's several waves of it there's the wave of you know february and march sometimes even in january if you think about the alex smith trade you get 10 12 15 trades that play out from the end of the regular season all the way through you know the start of the league year when they become official You get another wave around the draft. Now maybe you start to see a wave more in these post-June 1 things because that's why the A.J. Brown trade happened when it did. That's a factor. It's not the main factor, but it was a factor in why the Miles Garrett trade got done when it did. And then you've got this whole other wave that over these next 10 days, we'll see because so many things happened this summer that I think a lot of those big ticket items are off the table. We'll get some trades. There's no doubt about it over the next whatever it is here. 12 days until, especially if there's tanking teams, Speaker 1 (11:53) cause we don't usually have tanking in the NFL, but we might this year. And there's a couple of suspects already. Speaker 3 (11:59) We, we, you know, we, we already have, I think a pretty good idea. Like I was looking at the, the win over unders, uh, before I came on here. And it's like, I'd say on that one, Vegas is probably at a, you know, probably pretty much right. I mean, you can see the teams now call it tanking because, you know, there's no like NFL equivalent of Mark Madsen jacking up 12 threes. Like there's just, there's no way to do it. You can't like put a defensive lineman at quarterback, but you can organizationally put yourself in a position where it's apparent, like you're not playing for right now. The dolphins are the perfect example of that. And I've had dolphins fans ask me, you know, just here and there people I run into about it. I'm just like, just like buckle up. Try to enjoy the ride, but like 2028 is what you're looking at here. Yes. Like I went out and they got Malik Willis because he's a great young man who's like, he's got some ability and he's got to be developed. And with Bobby Sloak now following the offense there, there's a lot of similarities to what he was doing in green Bay when he had some success. But like, you know, and they've got Devon HN who's a good player, but like you trade Jalen Waddle to get a first round pick. You, you don't bring back some of your other guys. You know, Speaker 1 (13:04) you Speaker 3 (13:04) trade away. Although Bradley Chubb's another one that you. you move on from it. And they didn't like go out and spend a bunch of money in free agency. They are very much a team that is looking at this as like, all right, we're going to build this the Green Bay way. We got Jeff Halfley and John Eric Sullivan. They're two very intelligent guys. And they know like there's no quick fix, especially in division where you got Buffalo and New England, where like, are we really catching these teams in the near term? No, like it's going to take a couple of years. Maybe Malik's the guy. If he's not, you're not over leveraged. I think he's, he's guaranteed like $50 million over two years. They're going to be in the running, I would think, again, and this is taking nothing away from anybody involved, but realistically, they're going to be in the running for the number one pick. Well, you look at their Speaker 1 (13:44) wide receiver room and it's like, oh, I see what you guys are up to. Speaker 3 (13:48) Jalen Tolbert's listed as a starter on the depth chart right now. Malik Washington, all those dudes. I like Jalen, but like, I mean, yeah, they've got some significant issues, which also, by the way, complicates the evaluation of Malik Willis. Like Malik comes, he's like, all right, at least I got Jalen Waddell. It's like a week later, it's like, well, we traded Jalen Waddell. Yeah. You're going to be throwing to, you know, the other guys who are still around. Speaker 1 (14:09) So you think Miami, Arizona. Speaker 3 (14:11) Arizona is another obvious one. A lot Speaker 1 (14:12) of Speaker 3 (14:12) pulsating Speaker 1 (14:13) flags with Speaker 3 (14:13) them. Speaker 1 (14:14) Cleveland has a lot of talent, except the quarterback situations and F minus, minus, minus. So I don't know what happens Speaker 3 (14:20) there. Speaker 1 (14:20) And Speaker 3 (14:20) what you're Speaker 1 (14:20) doing this year Speaker 3 (14:21) is you're trying to figure out, can either of these guys do it? I know this, like, I mean, the coaching staff came away encouraged from the spring. They felt like they got two guys they can at least function with. and try to be competitive with and Deshaun Watson and Shadur Sanders. But like, if you're asking me, like, what's my guess of who's the quarterback for the Browns week one in 2027? I'd say neither. I'd say it's somebody who's probably in college right now. You know, I don't see them bringing back Baker Mayfield. It could be somebody else who's available via trade. But I think the Browns with two first round picks, they got the Rams pick now for the Miles Garrett trade. And then the Jets, you know, as much as this year, like you don't bring in DeMario Davis and David Onyemata and Mika Fitzpatrick. If you're thinking like we're going two and 15, you're thinking we need to win some games or there's going to be even more whole stage. wholesale changes than there were a year ago. When, remember, they close out the season, Aaron Glenn takes a few weeks. There's a lot of conversation. He basically fires his whole staff. He fires his offensive and defensive coordinators. He makes a bunch of other changes here. They know they've got to take a step forward. You go out and get Geno Smith, too. You're just hoping that you can function. Aaron Glenn's going to call the plays on the defense. You know, they're not going to the playoffs this year. I mean, that would shock me. Anything can happen. It's the NFL. They've got to get the 6-7 win, show they're headed in the right direction. If not, with all that ammo, even if they are a 6-7 win team, you've got two extra first-round picks where you can bundle those together. The big picture story, yeah, we'll talk about all the contenders and the teams we think are going to be in the Super Bowl. But, like, to me, one of the fascinating things here is, and, yes, this gets said from time to time, but the people I've talked to within the league, the scouts, the evaluators I respect, they all say if things trend positively, there's always a couple of these college guys with their last year they fall off and a guy we're talking about being a first-rounder, like, doesn't get drafted, they're a day-three pick, the Garrett Nussmeyers of the world. If this group holds up the way that these guys think, between Arch Manning, Dante Moore is going to be in that category. Julian Sayen has fans. CJ Carr has fans. What if Lenore Sellers revives himself? What about Mensah Speaker 1 (16:28) at Speaker 3 (16:28) Miami? There's all these guys, and you've got these clear and obvious teams that are all going to be drafted probably somewhere in the top 12 picks and a couple of extra picks. Those are the teams that I'm looking at. when we're talking about, you know, the tank for arch stuff or whatever, the way that doesn't rhyme, but they'll come up with some rhyme for it. Right. Something with that. Those will be the team. Arch. Speaker 1 (16:50) No, I don't know. Starts keeps you Speaker 3 (16:52) upright. You need the opposite. You need to lay flat to get arch. I Speaker 1 (16:56) got to think about that one. We're going to do pressure rankings, but I want to talk about Minnesota first, just because you're there. Yeah. And you have a good Vikings feel. And that is somehow not one of the two most tortured franchises in the league. even though I think they would argue that they are. I live Speaker 3 (17:13) here. People here are sufficiently. They think Speaker 1 (17:17) they're number one. Speaker 3 (17:18) Yeah. Without, you know, my dad grew up a Vikings fan in the upper peninsula. So he's like 65 seasons into this thing. Yeah. All my friends, everybody else, they would all tell you that this is, it's not, it's not been an easy road. Speaker 1 (17:32) It's tough because the bills with all the Superbowl losses, and then this whole Josh Allen ride, who's now, I think. 30 years old, 29 years old, somewhere in there. The lows of their losses almost feel like the worst. Minnesota has been steadily just getting kicked in the balls decade after decade forever. But the Lions, like nothing has happened for them forever until this decade. And they always get left out of the torture combo. Then you have the Browns where nothing good has happened with them since 1964. I don't know. I don't know what the rankings are, but Minnesota thinks they're first. It depends if Speaker 3 (18:10) your definition of the tortured fan base is the one that keeps getting close and can't get over the hump. Speaker 1 (18:16) The Red Sox. This was Red Sox pre-2004. The Red Sox forever. Every year you think it's the year and then you get kicked in the teeth. Speaker 3 (18:22) Right. Then all of a sudden, you rally against the Yankees and everybody can't believe that this is what's happening. Right. The Vikings and the Bills, they're very similar trajectories. Both have lost four Super Bowls. If you look at it, I think that the... in terms of winning percentage since in the Super Bowl era, the Vikings are like number six and every team above and below them has one or more Lombardis. It's crazy. They have none. And because they're there all the time, you know, the Bills in recent years. Yeah, they've been there, too. But they went through a stretch from what was it like 1999? Speaker 3 (18:53) 2017 without going to the playoffs. So they had a long drought. The Vikings have never had that long of a drought. They never, you know, under this ownership group, the will spend a ton of money. They always want to be good. They always want to go for it every year. They never go all the way to the bottom, you know, but then, you know, you're constantly getting close and then you're in a bit of a high wire act from a, you know, a cap perspective and whatnot, be able to keep it healthy and, and figure it out. But, you know, they've never had a quarterback. They haven't found. They're Josh Allen, probably going back to, you know, Dante Culpepper had a pretty good run in like 0304 before he blew out his knee. Since then, it's just been a, you know, two years of Favre and you had, you know, Teddy had his moment. You know, Favre was Speaker 1 (19:32) good that first year and then absolutely got destroyed in that Saints game and probably was concussed 17 times over the course of three. I mean, that was one of the bad games, right? Yeah, he threw one Speaker 3 (19:45) of Speaker 1 (19:45) the worst Speaker 3 (19:45) interceptions ever. Cross his body. And then they beg him to come back in 2010. In 2010, I was on the Vikings beat at that point. And that was one of the biggest disaster seasons I think that's ever existed in NFL history. It's not just, yeah, Favre, the most durable quarterback ever, got knocked out of like his last three or four games consecutively. Corey Wooten hits him on a frozen field at TCF Bank Stadium. And he goes down like a chalk outline like the police would get like this. And he's just out. Still does his press conference, which the rules changed after that about what you're allowed to do. But that's Speaker 4 (20:19) the Speaker 3 (20:19) year the Metrodome roof collapsed. The Vikings ended up playing a home game in Detroit. They played the Eagles on a Tuesday night in Philadelphia because of a snowstorm that never came. Percy Harvin left the field in an ambulance that year. I mean, it was an unbelievable calamity. But that's what the Vikings fans go through is every time you have a really good season. It's somehow followed by the season from hell. That's their own unique torture in this entire thing. Speaker 1 (20:46) Conspiracy Bill had a lot of thoughts on that Tuesday night game. I always felt like that was the NFL kind of knowing that this, it wasn't going to be that bad on the Monday, but pushing it to Tuesday, just because they were interested to see what the ratings and everything else was going to be. I will always believe that. Speaker 3 (21:02) I drove by. Let's see. We switched from on the advice of somebody on the beat who was an idiot, suggested like, we got to get out of the city. The city's going to be shut down. So we moved from like the Vikings Hotel, which was the Ritz Carlton downtown, to like some really sketchy hotel out by the airport. So on the drive there on Sunday afternoon, we're looking, it was supposed to be, you know, the storm of the century. And I'm telling you, there was about this much like kind of muddy. I don't even know if it was snow or if it was just crap on the side. There was nothing. It barely snowed. Mayor Nutter, I think was his name, had called everything off. So the city's shutting down. There's no snow at all. And the Vikings played, I think that was a Joe Webb game, if I'm not mistaken. I mean, you want to talk about just like the weirdness of that year. Joe Webb starting a Tuesday game in Philly. It was, I think he'd make the top 10 of that season. Speaker 1 (21:48) Give us the mood in Minnesota on the J.J. McCarthy era. Speaker 3 (21:53) I mean, I've gotten to know JJ a little bit. You're around him for five minutes and you get it. You get why this guy's been a winner and why people like him. Like the locker room really liked him. It's not like he was this guy and he was a joke from day one walking in. But he's in that category of people who, especially the quarterback position, they have so much going on for their first couple of years that it's just impossible to know what they could be. And now you're going into year three. We don't even know if he's going to be the number two quarterback. If Carson Wentz outplays Carson Speaker 1 (22:26) in Speaker 3 (22:26) the preseason. Right. Well, I mean, you could potentially trade him. But if you're talking about a third string quarterback, like I wouldn't, if I'm him, I don't want to get traded. To me, if I'm a young quarterback, I don't want in late August. to get traded to a team that might be running a completely different system with players I don't know, zero reps, zero time on task to build the rhythm and timing and tempo you need in an NFL passing offense. Then, God forbid, the starter gets hurt. Everyone's like, well, let's see, JJ, and you get thrown out there. That's the way to end your career, or at least to go along a path of some of the Baker Mayfields Speaker 1 (23:01) and Speaker 3 (23:01) the Sam Darnolds who needed several different spots because everyone was done with them. And then he got stability. or whatever, the closest thing to stability for Baker who has a different OC every year, but you get in the right spot and all of a sudden your career becomes kind of looking like what it might be. And that could be James. I Speaker 1 (23:16) was thinking it would be the Chargers and Harbaugh potentially being like, we'll take him. Third round pick. He's our backup. We'll try to rehab him, rehabilitate him, and then maybe we can flip him. Speaker 3 (23:26) Other than that, every Jim Harbaugh press conference is basically a love letter to Justin Harbaugh. I think it's Speaker 1 (23:32) true. How Speaker 3 (23:32) many different ways he can Speaker 1 (23:33) say. He's Speaker 3 (23:33) batting his eyelashes out of. how Speaker 1 (23:35) much he loves Speaker 3 (23:36) this guy. We bring him in though as the backup. Like, sure, I could see that. But like, what's the team going to give up for a backup at the deadline? Like, if you get a real pick. I don't think that there's an upside to, hey, let's just dump this guy for a seventh rounder or something. Like, there's still, I mean, there's people that like him in Minnesota, but I remember what I was like at that age. You know, like, I couldn't, I didn't have my life together. You know, like, J.J., his first year, and he, you know, suffers that meniscus injury, has the surgery. We all saw him on the sideline. You know, he loses a ton of weight, and it's a hard year because he's never really had that type of adversity. I mean, he played, and he won almost every game he was in, going all the way. way back to prep school. So, you know, he has that year off. And then last year, like, you know, you saw signs of it. I was in a Timberwolves game, him and Justin Jefferson are sitting front row. Justin was really encouraging to him. They spent a ton of time together. You saw flashes of it. And then, you know, he comes out second half of that week one game against the bears and you're like, oh, okay. He's making plays with his legs. He didn't throw the ball a lot in that game. You're like, okay, I see it. Like they really like the athletic quarterback. He can move. And then, oh, he suffered a high ankle sprain in that game. He's now out for whatever was the following week. He's out for six weeks. And all of a sudden, he's not there. By the way, after the week one game, his fiance also has a kid. So now you're a 22-year-old guy, whatever he is, 23, who's probably not getting a lot of sleep. Well, you're really selling me on him. This Speaker 1 (24:57) is an incredible job by you. I'm starting to buy JJ stock. You're laying it all out. Speaker 3 (25:04) Think about that. Like all the different things that you're dealing with life-wise, then you come back and then he gets a concussion and then he's got a finger thing or whatever it was, wrist, I can't remember the exact nature of the injury, something on his throwing hand. So like the guy's never healthy. You know, guys like that or Anthony Richardson, Trey Lance, JJ played a lot more football and was much more productive than those guys in college, but he didn't throw the ball a whole lot more. I just know this, Bill, I was at the Detroit game. You know, the nine meme. You know, the thing where he's making the funny face and everybody posts the JJ stuff all over and over again. Like that's from the locker room in Detroit where I was at that game. He was lights out again. He didn't have to throw the ball a ton to like red zone timing. He made a couple of tough throws, you know, had a touchdown pass. Like I was like, watch it going. Oh, I get it. So you have seen flashes. If you watch enough of the Vikings, there's flashes there. But I think at this point, everyone's just, you know, kind of like, all right, we've seen it. We've also had a lot of success through the years, whether it's, you know, Favre or Case Keenum or Randall Cunningham with the veteran who's got ability and he comes in in the right time. Maybe that's Kyler Murray who's being coached up differently. They split the reps all through the, you know, through the spring. They tried to make it as 50-50 as they could. But, you know, I was also hearing back in the spring, like. You can tell already who's the baller. Like Kyler's got that. Let's see with a revamped running game and a really good receiver arsenal and an offensive line that Christian Derrissaw is finally healthy. Like, let's see what that ends up looking like in 2026. Speaker 1 (26:31) It's the most polarizing NFC team from a prediction standpoint. I've seen people really like them. I've seen other people think they're clearly fourth place. I'm still deciding on it. I can see both cases, but it seems like the, you could. potentially see them win 11, 12 games of Kyler's good. You could also see them be kind of a train wreck. And this could be the final year for KOC, like that kind of scenario too. They're betting a lot on Kyler Murray, a guy that Arizona was paying. And they were like, we're good. Please, please take them. I get it. But Arizona's like, we're good. And now you're betting on this career resurgence. I don't personally see it. I've never been a huge fan. I just think he's like a 500 quarterback who will put up stats. But I think any good defense, he can't throw over the middle. I don't trust his decision-making. I just don't see it. But some people like him. Speaker 3 (27:26) I think that Kyler probably, you know, if he holds one NFL record, it's most millions of dollars paid by a team who hates you. Like the Cardinals from the day they did that contract and the homework clause. And it's not like that was a secret. Like everybody knew. And everybody knew about Kyler coming out of college. He's not a leader, right? He doesn't hang with the guys. Like, he's kind of to himself. He plays video games and all this stuff. You know, they did have some success early with Cliff. I mean, they went to the playoffs one year, but then, you know, got killed. Everybody there said, like, he did grow up over time. The last staff, the Jonathan Gannon staff, really did like him. It just, you know, he gets hurt again last year. He's had a bunch of injuries. Like, it just didn't work out. With him coming to Minnesota now, they like it for a couple of reasons. One, they don't. I think they need him to be a leader. Like, KO is going into his fifth year. Like, they've kind of got a locker room that can handle a lot. And you got Justin Jefferson, guys like that. Aaron Jones is on the team. Defensively, you do have some veterans that you can lean on. Like, Kyler can just come in and be, you know, a functional quarterback. He is being coached differently. They revamped the running game, which that'll be, you know, from a fantasy football perspective, particularly, Bill, will be really interesting because... It's going to be Aaron Jones and Jordan Mason kind of splitting it. And then the rookie, DeMond Claiborne, who they really like. There were a lot of questions about him coming out, but he is explosive as shit. It's like how that plays out. That could all take some heat off him. They brought in Frank Smith, who is Miami's offensive coordinator. Keith Carter's the old line coach. Them with KO are kind of putting together the run game. They may not have to be. stuck in that throw the ball 45 times a game thing. And by the way, even when at times they were stuck with that last year, they still, they might've had the worst quarterback situation in the league last year. You have JJ coming out in and out of the lineup three times. You have Carson Wentz who played pretty well out of the gate and then bangs up his shoulder. And then by the time late in that second half of that Rams game, it's, you know, every time he's thrown, it's like. Remember Rookie of the Year? The old pressure. Every throw was like, this is the end. His arm is going to fall off. Then you're rolling Max Brosmer out there. That was supposed to be a redshirt year. It was a project that you were going to have there. They won a game on Christmas with Brosmer throwing for like 50 yards. They went nine and eight. Like he's won nine, they missed the playoffs by a half game. That's where like, if they can get functional quarterback play, KO said it from the moment the season ended, like we need more talent in the room. We need better competition in the room. And that's why they bring back Carson Wentz. It wasn't because they were thinking he was giving the number two over JJ. It's because they're like, we played, we played three or more quarterbacks, two out of Kevin's four years. If we can just have. quarterbacks who play to a certain level, like everything else. They won 13 and 14 games those other two years. I think I'm not going to give you a gambling advice on the over-unders here, but like an eight and a half win total, like, I don't know, history would suggest unless all the quarterbacks, like a nuclear bomb drops on that room, the Vikings are going to find a way to scrap and be in the playoff run. Speaker 1 (30:27) The Cleveland fans and the Vegas fans can't believe you said they had the worst quarterback room in the league last year. They need oxygen. They need water. Cleveland's like, what else do we have to do to have the worst quarterback situation? But you're right. It was so bleak in that second half of the season for the Vikings. They were at least on that level. I mean, we had some of the worst quarterback situations we've had since I was growing up last year. Now we have Atlanta this year as the worst one, I think. Speaker 3 (30:55) I mean, Atlanta's got, you know, everybody's waiting for the competition, but it's like Michael Penix is on his third torn ACL. Is he going to be able to play? It's August 18th. I mean, I can't name off the top of my head another quarterback who was in a quote unquote competition and didn't practice an 11 on 11. We haven't seen him yet. In late August, he hasn't even been out there. And Tua just Speaker 1 (31:16) shouldn't be in the NFL anymore. I mean, he's just, I don't understand. Speaker 1 (31:22) First of all, how he's Speaker 2 (31:23) a Speaker 1 (31:23) starter. And second, why he even wants to play. He looks terrified to get hit. Even you watch the preseason and he's doing like it's over. So I don't know who the third stringer is, but we're probably going to see him. Speaker 3 (31:34) This is part of why I think Mike McDaniel, you know, as much as he became a meme at times, especially, you know, just because