‘The End of Oak Street’ and the Top Five 'Twilight Zone' Movies. Plus: Will Poulter!

The Big Picture - The Ringer

In this episode of 'The Big Picture,' host Sean Fennessey is joined by Chris Ryan and Mallory Rubin to discuss the new dinosaur thriller 'The End of Oak Street' directed by David Robert Mitchell,

Key takeaways

• The casting of Adam Driver as Mr. Sinister is seen as a surprising yet exciting choice, despite initial confusion due to rumors about him playing Magneto.
• Kit Connor's casting as Cyclops has generated significant buzz, with Mallory Rubin praising his talent and predicting future stardom.

Main topics

• Discussion of 'The End of Oak Street,' a new dinosaur thriller
• Casting updates for the upcoming X-Men movie revealed at D23

Notable quotes

'They could have had a better farm system, but they still somehow have one of the best.'

'I texted Joanna and multiple friends. This guy is going to be mega famous.'

Conclusion

This episode blends film critique with behind-the-scenes excitement, spotlighting both upcoming cinematic projects and the

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:15) I'm Sean Fennessey and this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about dinosaurs, cosmos, and what to do if you're mysteriously transported back to the Mesozoic era. On today's episode, I'll be joined by Chris Ryan. and Mallory Rubin to discuss the new dinosaur thriller, The End of Oak Street, a rollicking new movie from It Follows and Under the Silver Lake director, David Robert Mitchell. Later in this episode, I'll be joined by Will Poulter, the extraordinarily versatile and gifted actor who stars in a tough and powerful new movie called Union County about a young Ohio man in recovery participating in a county-mandated drug court program. The movie is made with largely non-professional actors and is a fascinating collision of the real world and the created. Poulter is a smart actor with great taste, always looking for material like this. He came here with a great story to tell. I hope you'll stick around for that chat. But first, let's talk about some important movie news that starts with the letter X with Mal and CR right after this. Speaker 4 (1:06) Okay, Mallory, welcome back. Hello, Speaker 1 (1:08) thanks for having me. What a pleasure. Speaker 4 (1:10) It's Speaker 3 (1:10) his show. Speaker 4 (1:10) You should, you know, like... Look Speaker 1 (1:12) at Speaker 4 (1:12) me in the eyes the entire time. What's up Speaker 3 (1:14) with the big picture turning into inside the actor's studio? Speaker 1 (1:18) I Speaker 3 (1:18) like talking to artists. Speaker 4 (1:21) What's wrong with that? Speaker 1 (1:22) Are we going to do a little bit of tape breakdown on the Ask Sean Anything mailbag? You know, I'd like to share some Speaker 4 (1:28) thoughts. Speaker 1 (1:28) What do you want to get into? I just thought it was an absolutely riveting, astonishing, and dare I say, exquisite listen. And I found it. inspiring and aspirational. I know why you're asking. Yeah. Speaker 4 (1:38) I Speaker 1 (1:39) listened to it in the car over a few commutes. You mean like Speaker 4 (1:42) in the boudoir? Well, I listened Speaker 1 (1:43) to the watch in the bath and I think Chris feels protective that I have chosen to consume the watch in that very relaxing intimate way. Speaker 4 (1:52) Sure, yeah. Speaker 3 (1:53) There's just not like any old Irish guy talking on a podcast and you know, you jump in the bath. Speaker 4 (1:57) What is it about the Irish and podcasting? Why do we got it like that? Speaker 3 (2:00) You and me, JFK. Yeah. Speaker 4 (2:03) He would have been a hell of a podcaster. Speaker 1 (2:04) When was the last time the three of us podcasted together? It's been a minute. Just the three of us? Just the three of us. Not the three of us and other people. Complete Unknown might have been it. No kidding. Yeah, because Gladiator 2 and Complete Unknown were like very close together. Did we Speaker 4 (2:17) not have a trio pod last year? Is that possible? Speaker 1 (2:20) That's Speaker 4 (2:20) so sad. Speaker 1 (2:21) I feel like that's just a mistake and not something we should allow to happen again. Speaker 4 (2:24) If only we were allowed to make decisions about who gets to appear on episodes. How many times have you and I been invited to The Watch together? Speaker 1 (2:31) Zero. Zero. What Speaker 4 (2:32) does that tell you? Speaker 3 (2:33) It tells you that Andy's Speaker 4 (2:34) a Speaker 3 (2:34) prima donna and it takes a lot of maintenance to just get him ready at 10 a.m. You have no idea how many shots he takes, what kind of rider he Speaker 4 (2:42) has. Speaker 3 (2:42) You Speaker 4 (2:42) mean Speaker 3 (2:42) like shots like this or like shots like this? Vitamin Speaker 4 (2:44) B, Speaker 3 (2:44) you know, HGH, Speaker 4 (2:46) all Speaker 3 (2:46) the things Speaker 4 (2:47) that we have Speaker 3 (2:47) to pump into him to get him coherent. Speaker 4 (2:49) You should let him know that Mal and I know how to podcast. Speaker 3 (2:53) I know. Well, you don't watch television anymore. Mostly true. Yeah. What am I up on right now? What am I up to date on? Speaker 4 (3:01) We haven't watched Lanterns. I have not yet seen the finale of Dragon. But I saw the first seven episodes. Okay. That's pretty good for you. Pace-wise. What did I just finish? What did I just watch and finish? I can't remember. I'm not watching a lot right now. I will watch Lanterns. Did Speaker 2 (3:15) you Speaker 4 (3:15) watch Beef Season 2 recently? I Speaker 3 (3:16) watched Beef Speaker 4 (3:16) Season 2, which I enjoyed. Did Speaker 3 (3:18) you Speaker 4 (3:18) watch any of... I thought a little bit went off the rails, but I enjoyed it. No, but I will. We need Speaker 3 (3:22) your Lanterns takes. It Speaker 4 (3:22) is actually literally... I'm going on vacation this weekend, and Eileen and I are going to watch Furious. And I have been... deleting episodes as soon as you and Andy start talking about them. Hey, thanks for being here. So you just came back from Anaheim? Speaker 1 (3:36) That's right. I was just there on Friday night. That was enough. Speaker 4 (3:39) You were there for D23. What is D23, Mallory? Speaker 1 (3:43) D23 is the Disney convention to announce and celebrate all sorts of Disney things. I had never been, and I decided this year after... San Diego Comic-Con, assuming that I did not come back from San Diego Comic-Con with COVID, which is what happened last year, that I would go. I would make my maiden voyage to D23 this year. And I was committed. Chris saw me last week. We had some wonderful podcasting experiences together last week with the Talk the Thrones finale of Rewatchables. And he was like, you seem not well. And I was like, nothing will keep me from D23. Not my psychic break. Not my debilitating exhaustion. Nothing. I will be there. And then I went and I was like, I don't need to go again. That said, that said, we got some big news. We did. We Speaker 4 (4:30) got a lot of news. Speaker 3 (4:30) Sean and I got it the same second you did. Speaker 1 (4:33) Yeah. We Speaker 4 (4:34) were sitting together drinking beer in my home. Yeah. And you were in Anaheim. That's right. Getting COVID-20. Yeah. So we got an X-Men cast. Yeah. You have been podcasting about X-Men. You have been podcasting about X-Men. I just podcasted about X-Men last week. You sure did. We all love the X-Men. I think we're all very excited about the forthcoming X-Men movie. And some of the casting announcements were made. We know that Jake Schreier is going to be directing the movie. And we knew going into this that Samara Weaving would be playing Emma Frost. We knew Kit Conner would be portraying... Cyclops. Yeah. And of course we knew Sadie Sink would be portraying Jean Grey because of Spider-Man Brand New Day. Everything else. I would say was mostly rumored and unconfirmed. And there was one thing that I think it's fair to say could be considered surprising, but even then, this is a person that we knew the MCU had been targeting for a very long time. Speaker 1 (5:30) So Speaker 4 (5:30) I'll give the list, and then I want to get your reactions to this roster so far of Charles Xavier's X-Men. We'll start with Charles Xavier, who's going to be portrayed by Christopher Abbott. Yeah. Speaker 1 (5:40) Probably Speaker 4 (5:40) best known for his work on Girls, but I think a very exciting and very adventurous... film actor. Very serious man. Very serious actor. Great work on Broadway. Made a lot of independent films over the last 10 years or so. Speaker 3 (5:53) I saw him off Broadway. Not Speaker 4 (5:54) a big deal. We can just skip Speaker 3 (5:56) right past. Did you Speaker 4 (5:57) see him in theaters in Kraven the Hunter? I Speaker 1 (6:01) did. As the Speaker 4 (6:02) foreigner. Speaker 1 (6:02) Day one. Speaker 4 (6:03) I was there as well. Didn't work out great. He was fine in it. Speaker 1 (6:06) He was pretty interesting, actually. Speaker 4 (6:08) Not as Speaker 1 (6:09) interesting as Kraven's abs, obviously. Speaker 4 (6:11) In addition to... Professor X. We've got Indy Navarrete is playing Rogue. Speaker 1 (6:16) We've Speaker 4 (6:16) got Maya Boyd as Storm. Speaker 1 (6:18) Yeah. Speaker 4 (6:19) And the most significant news, I think, is probably Adam Driver is portraying Nathaniel Milbury, a.k.a. Mr. Sinister. Speaker 1 (6:26) Yeah. Speaker 4 (6:28) You say what? Speaker 1 (6:29) So the Midnight Boys pew-pew talked about this on their pod. Joe and I podded this morning about the D23 news and the excellent Lanterns premiere. And I think all of us had the same reaction to being in the room for the announcement, which was just a very weird, anticlimactic, muted response. People Speaker 3 (6:46) were... They're where the NBA draft is now, where it's just like five minutes before the pick. They're like, the Hornets will be taking conknipple. Yeah, Speaker 1 (6:53) it was just a very quick progression of... saying the performers' names. They came out, they said nothing, and then it was over, and there was, like, genuinely no joke, way more excitement in the room for Bluey and Camp Rock 3, not a thing that I knew about or understood until Joanna explained it to me. So that was strange. I think that the driver, the Adam driver, because he was on video. That was a clip that they played a fun little bit. Like, I thought, you know, when everyone said to be there, they meant on set, right? And he's alone, they pan out. And he did the Magneto bit. He like leaned into the rumor mill that people had speculated that he would be playing Magneto. Speaker 1 (7:32) I will say that without naming names, multiple people around us were like, wait, so is he Magneto? Because he said Nathaniel Milbury, not Mr. Sinister, and not everybody knew that alias. So people were like confused. Speaker 3 (7:44) It Speaker 1 (7:45) was a little bit weird. There's the reception in the room, and then there's just the excitement for the cast. And I think this is exciting casting. I will say I am a, Joanna introduced me to Heartstopper a few years ago, and I think it's excellent. And I, the second I saw Kit Conner, like in one scene. I texted Joanna and multiple friends. This guy is going to be mega famous. Like, I just think he's an incredibly talented young actor. I love Sadie Sink. Charlie on Girls is one of the more formative. Speaker 4 (8:13) Yeah, a problematic male boy. Heroin Charlie or prep Charlie? They're all kind of interesting, right? Speaker 1 (8:19) Part of the experience of loving Charlie is the journey, you know? Speaker 4 (8:24) And Speaker 1 (8:24) so, yeah, I have not seen Obsession because I'm scared. But obviously that I understand that that is very exciting. Maya Boyd, a Broadway. performer, but new to a movie of this magnitude, obviously. By Speaker 4 (8:38) far the least Speaker 1 (8:38) known of the crew. Yeah, so I think this is a really exciting young cast. My expectation certainly is that we have more news to come. I don't know if you believe that the Charles Melton turned down Beast thing is real. It certainly seems like it. I am obsessed with Charles Melton, so I was really hoping that he would be in this new franchise. Anyway, I think that the cast is very promising. More to come. How many more reveals to come for the first film is an interesting question. Speaker 4 (9:04) I assume you and Andy talked about this. We did. Yeah. You know, you don't have to repeat yourself here necessarily. I'll Speaker 3 (9:10) say something different than what I said on the pod, which is something I was saving Speaker 4 (9:13) for the big picture. Nice. Sometimes I do this. Yeah, it's special. Speaker 3 (9:17) The casting is secondary to the way this movie winds up looking and the way this movie winds up feeling to me. Like, they could have cast this with the collected cast of Heat 2, and it's not going to matter if it looks like Doomsday. And I think that this is almost more crucial to me than Marvel turning the page on the V1 Avengers, like the Mark Ruffalo era, you know, Avengers, and the Hemsworth Avengers is... turning the page on how these movies maybe get made and how they look and how they feel. The best example of that going forward, I think the touchstone should be Brand New Day, which by no means is, you know, licorice pizza in terms of its feel for human life. But if only it had a little bit of Speaker 4 (10:04) that Speaker 3 (10:04) energy. Yeah. Speaker 4 (10:05) If I was like, the one thing missing from Brand New Day was an age gap romance. As Speaker 3 (10:10) it was coming out of my mouth, I was like. That's interesting that that's the first movie you thought of that's not a superhero movie. Speaker 4 (10:16) Is that because that movie made you want to visit a high school? No, do you know what I think it Speaker 1 (10:20) was on some level subconsciously? It's that Cooper Hoffman had been rumored to be an X-Men. It might have been Speaker 3 (10:24) that and it might have also just been like Michael Bauman shot that, Michael Bauman shot Tony. I'm just thinking about it's just a lot of spaghetti up here. Yeah. Speaker 4 (10:32) Well, okay. You're making an interesting point. To me. I'm very excited for X-Men and I really liked Thunderbolts and I think Jake Schreier's good. So like, I'm probably going to like this movie. I hope Speaker 3 (10:41) so, yes. I feel the same way. I thought Speaker 4 (10:43) Thunderbolts was great. X-Men is very sacred to us. I really, I'm in the middle of X-Men 97 season two. That is the show I was watching that I couldn't think of. Good show. And I'm loving it. Speaker 1 (10:54) And Speaker 4 (10:54) I loved the first season and it is tapping into a very primal teenage me version. And now I like, I literally pulled out the graphic novels over the weekend when the news hit the show to Alice. Here's Days of Future Past. Here's, you know what I mean? Like, here's Dark Phoenix. So I'm very invested in that, in that very kind of adolescent way. With that said, this casting feels very much to me like a sop to Gen Z. And I think what they're doing is looking at the success of the Spider-Man films since Holland came on. And one of the reasons why the last two movies have been so massive is you've got young people who've been on the journey with these actors since the beginning. So if you were 14 when Homecoming came out. You're at that you're at the stage of life now where a lot of these characters are going in these movies and that there's something very shrewd about that that is going to make I think this version of the x-men feel dramatically different from Bryan Singer's x-men movies and Really more like ya and I don't mean that pretty I don't Speaker 2 (11:49) mean Speaker 4 (11:49) that pretty oratively But this is a younger cast It's a very it's a relatively unknown cast and the things that they are known for are things like heart stopper which is appealing to a very, yeah, Stranger Things, Obsession. Like, these were hot Gen Z things. I Speaker 1 (12:04) would say there's nothing more millennial than girls, and both Adam Driver and Christopher Abbott are girls' tentpoles. Speaker 4 (12:11) There's a counterpoint to that, which is if you look at the two hyper-seasoned actors that they've cast here, they're, like, they're credibility boosters. They're very serious figures. You know, they both take their work very seriously. We know that about them. They both present as... they're going to be the grown-ups in the room, quite literally, in these stories. So it'll be interesting to see how those two worlds kind of interact. Speaker 3 (12:30) Yeah, I just have a couple of questions about the mechanics of how they're going to do this version of whether it's phased storytelling or not. They're probably not going to use Disney Plus as a spackle for plot. So there probably won't be a Speaker 4 (12:45) Hellfire Club series to introduce these people, right? I have some thoughts on that, but keep going. Speaker 3 (12:50) They're probably... If I had to guess... these characters will be relatively well introduced in the two Avengers films. And so the first X-Men movie, I don't think so. Do Speaker 1 (13:02) you think Speaker 3 (13:02) it's going to Speaker 4 (13:02) be like Charles Speaker 3 (13:03) Xavier's school Speaker 4 (13:04) for- I think you Speaker 3 (13:04) might get in Secret Speaker 4 (13:05) Wars. Speaker 3 (13:05) Yeah. A little bit. Speaker 1 (13:06) I think that gets to the younger cast, right? And the meta quality there of like not only leaning into the ability to grow with the Spider-Man comp, which I think is exactly right and great. And, you know, ultimately very appealing for the idea of like creating and fostering a new generation of fandom rather than just continuing to make movies for a bunch of increased- fatigued and beleaguered moviegoers who are like, this isn't as good as the thing I used to love. There's a natural element to the Secret Wars, post-Secret Wars reset of saying, okay, the universe is taking shape and form anew, and we're doing that with characters who are figuring out their powers as the MCU is figuring out the next stage of storytelling. So I think that's appropriate and exciting. It actually feels to me like... It gives me more confidence than the idea of continuing to try to layer on and connect to these extra strands of threads of a tapestry that has now existed for... Guys, we're a couple years away from 20 years of the MCU. It's 2026. Iron Man came out in 2008. Speaker 4 (14:09) We Speaker 1 (14:10) need to move on to the next phase of things. And so that, I think, is actually a good choice. Speaker 4 (14:16) Me too. Yeah. I... I'm curious to see with Mr. Sinister being the lead villain, how much of this is really an X-Men movie. Because Mr. Sinister is very Gene and Scott focused as a character. We know Gene and Scott, they're announced here. We've already been introduced to Gene in these movies. But no Wolverine, no Nightcrawler, no Colossus, no Angel, no Iceman. Forget about Banshee or Bishop or Cable or any of those other characters. I have not forgotten Speaker 3 (14:45) about Bishop and Cable, by the way. If you Speaker 4 (14:47) really like Speaker 3 (14:48) Bishop Speaker 4 (14:48) and Cable, you need to be watching X-Men 97 Season 2. I do. They're getting a lot of energy. And I wonder if they're going to keep the team a little smaller. Maybe Beast will come in. Yeah. You know, maybe Angel will come in. Or maybe we'll get a Wolverine near the end of the film. But, like... Speaker 1 (15:03) No Wolverine would be really bold. The biggest questions, obviously, I think, are Wolverine and Magneto. Is Magneto not going to be cast in this first movie? I don't think they should. I agree. It's what Joanna said this morning. I think I'm coming around to this. This was not where I was initially. I Speaker 3 (15:16) also really liked the way Brand New Day was like, here's the star of the movie. Here's the co-stars of the movie. This is the pyramid of importance within this plot. There is not a D-plot of two people doing a MacGuffin journey to bring something back to Spider-Man that doesn't really matter. Like... they need to get away from that kind of storytelling, which they box themselves into because they have 12 actors and Avengers who all need like plot service. And they wind up acting against tennis balls in Atlanta and saying like, no, bring it over here. You know, but they do it in London now, but sure. Sure. But like my point being is like, if they were to start as a love story between these two kids who get fucked up by this guy. Speaker 1 (15:58) That's Speaker 3 (15:59) where I think they're going. That is Speaker 4 (16:00) exactly where I think they're going. Speaker 1 (16:01) Even just, I don't know, how much of how they spend the first 30 seconds of a four and a half minute D23 panel really matters. And what does that tell us? I don't know. But they did introduce Gene and Scott before Charles. Yes. Which felt like it was signaling something. And then to end on Sinister, I agree. It felt like the bookends of the announcement were. you know, that character set and that pairing. And the idea of building your new franchise initially around young, charismatic stars like Kit Conner and Sadie Sink, I think makes a lot of sense. I don't know that you can wait too long to bring Magneto and Wolverine into the era of X-Men and the MCU, but one movie is... Speaker 4 (16:42) Interesting. It's a fascinating choice. I was thinking about what you said with there not being a Hellfire Club TV show, for example. So we know that next year Speaker 2 (16:51) there's Speaker 4 (16:51) only one Marvel movie. It's just Secret Wars. In 2028, when this X-Men film is coming in May, that will be followed in succession by Ghost Rider and then Black Panther 3. And then we'll be back on the three Marvel movies a year schedule. And it was the expansionist mentality. that I think really felled the Marvel Enterprise. And I'll be very curious to see because I think it's not hard to imagine a world where Doomsday and Secret Wars and X-Men are all big hits. Speaker 1 (17:20) Maybe Speaker 4 (17:21) diminishing returns on the Avengers films relative to the previous two Avengers films, but still, those movies are going to be very, very big. And then all of a sudden, Marvel will be feeling itself again, and then they'll be like, well, what if we do need to do... the Colossus origin story in animated form on D+. Like, these things always come in waves and cycles, and so I'm kind of curious to see... Speaker 3 (17:41) I don't think there's any way to make those movies in a cost-effective way or make those shows in a really cost-effective way. I think that's what they figured out, that even something like Wonder Man, which had all this affection for it critically, and I think even among the fans who found it, but ultimately, like, Disney decided not to do it because it was a real Excel sheet. for them where they were like this movie this show costs too much for the amount of people who watch it and it's not germane it's not essential to have this as a building block going forward for our plans for Marvel Speaker 3 (18:13) I think they could change their mind again, just the same way all of, you know, entertainment could be like, we're diving back into streaming TV as a platform to connect theatrical events. And especially if movies become more and more this sort of like, not boutique, almost like luxury live experience of something. And then like TV is kind of where the grinders are. I don't know if that's ever going to happen. Speaker 4 (18:36) It's almost like the dynamic amongst podcasters as well. Speaker 3 (18:39) That's Speaker 4 (18:39) right. Speaker 3 (18:40) Just got to make that rent money. Speaker 4 (18:43) Kanish over here. Speaker 3 (18:46) I always got that bread truck route for you if you want it. My point really was just that I could see a world where they're making Ghost Rider, Black Panther, X-Men movies, and they don't have that much to do with each other. They're like, yeah, that there we are in a post post credit sequence world. And these stories are maybe a little hermetically sealed. Like, I'm sure we'll have team ups. I'm sure, you know, but I could see a world in which we're not doing a lot of like. you better stick around for the second post-credit sequence to see Charlize Theron, who's never going to show up again. Speaker 4 (19:21) It's probably a good idea to at least take a break from that after Secret Wars, which is kind of the ultimate, like the urr team-up story. So do you think Vision Quest will be like the last TV show we see for a long time from Marvel? Speaker 1 (19:33) I think you're both right. I think what Chris is outlining feels... currently like the plan. And I think you are right that the impulse to go right back to the thing that worked before until it didn't will be really strong if the overall enthusiasm is at a fever pitch again. I don't really know why I'm putting so much stock in like these Feige presentations at these conventions, but I was really struck at Comic-Con and for the Marvel Hall H panel when he came out and was like, we're not here to talk about TV. Literally said that. And I just thought that now again, he's like trying to muster enthusiasm for. Endgame encore. And then, of course, Doomsday. And, you know, they had the Ghost Rider and Black Panther 3 announcements at that panel. A little Spidey tease before people had seen that movie. So there was a lot of film-centric footage and conversation to highlight. But we're not here to talk about TV felt like a signal of intent about where Marvel is right now. I thought the Vision Quest trailer that they showed at D23 was one of the highlights of the entire night. It looks wonderful. WandaVision was great. Agatha was great. There's a version of Marvel from a couple years ago where the third piece of that trilogy is like really central to how people are talking and thinking about Marvel. And I would say this is very much being presented as the conclusion of a thing, not the continuation of a thing. Now that said, like Wiccan and Speed are in the MCU now and will be a part of things moving forward. So even the installments that are positioned as conclusions or to Chris's point as separate still present characters, if not maybe as many active plot lines that connect to other things because it is inherently a connected universe. I don't know. I mean... I think that there's no question, you're right, that Doomsday and Secret Wars will be huge. The question is whether they'll be good. I think Speaker 4 (21:20) we can pivot that conversation into the second trailer that was released. Speaker 1 (21:24) Now, Speaker 4 (21:24) you guys got a chance to see this at Comic-Con, Speaker 1 (21:27) correct? Yes. And Speaker 4 (21:28) this is the one that was communicated to us as a huge improvement on the first one. And I ask you, Chris, is it a huge improvement on the first one? Speaker 3 (21:37) Emotionally and dramatically, yeah. Yeah, I was interested to find out what they are Speaker 4 (21:42) yelling about. You now are interested to find out. I Speaker 3 (21:46) mean, I didn't know. The first one is... Did you do Speaker 4 (21:49) this? Speaker 3 (21:50) Yeah, well, if it's Speaker 4 (21:51) important, start screaming about it. Speaker 3 (21:53) I'd like to see... They have been doing kind of the inert... I don't know really what I'm looking at. A lot of posing. Yeah, and now, even though it looks like it is... I think Andy said it looked like it was shot in Harrenhal. Speaker 3 (22:07) I think that's generous. Wow. It at least had dramatic stakes that it was suggesting. Isn't Speaker 4 (22:14) that the whole Victor Von Doom thing, right? His relationship to his mom. Yeah, that's a big part of it. Yeah, for sure. I forgot about that. Isn't that one of his motivating forces is he can't really live up to the expectations for him. He's always second best. I always want to call Speaker 3 (22:29) him VVD, but that's the nickname of Liverpool's beloved center back, Virgil van Dijk. Speaker 4 (22:36) I think Victor Von Doom preceded him. He did. In the VVD power rankings, if I had to guess. I thought this was a little better. I don't know if it was like some dramatic improvement on what I saw before because it was shot in front of a giant fucking green screen. I guess the throne room scene is like a real room that had furniture in it. But like, the movie definitely has me interested in what the story is going to be. Speaker 3 (22:56) Who's Speaker 4 (22:56) the guy who did Speaker 3 (22:56) Marty Supreme? Jack, what's his face? Oh, Jack Fisk. Jack Fisk marvels the Speaker 4 (23:01) Avengers Doomsday. Speaker 4 (23:04) And it was nice to see Pedro Pascal acting and not wandering around like he's on Ambien like he did in Fantastic Four. That was, you know, I was interested in that. It does make it seem like, obviously, I like the theory, maybe it was Van who said this, maybe it was you who said this, that it feels, there's just like, this looks like maybe the first five minutes of the movie. Yeah, I Speaker 3 (23:22) just think that all this, like, the Fox X-Men are back! It's like, come on. Speaker 4 (23:27) In all likelihood, many of those characters will be annihilated fairly early on. I would think so. And the what did you do, did you do this was all about killing many, many heroes, presumably. Channing Tatum's gambit. Yeah, and we will mourn him on this show. But I don't know. The Russos, you know, they have a visual style. It's not the greatest style. And they don't have the same level of anticipation, at least for me, that they had going into the previous two films. Sure. We'll see how it goes. It's going to be a popular film. Speaker 1 (23:59) Oh, no question. Speaker 4 (24:00) No Speaker 1 (24:01) question. Speaker 4 (24:02) Will it be good, as you said, is really the big question. I mean, I Speaker 1 (24:04) hope so. I really want it to be. I thought that this trailer was a market improvement over the first one, which I considered quite worrying. Speaker 1 (24:16) I don't know. I heard Downey break out the Latverian accent and I felt like possibility still existed in the world. I felt alive. I don't think that was your reaction to Speaker 4 (24:27) it. No, I thought it was very silly. Speaker 3 (24:28) Do Speaker 1 (24:28) you Speaker 3 (24:28) think we'll get any no mask Downey? Or is this a Mandalorian situation? Speaker 1 (24:33) You know, they're giving us so much like eye, so much eyeball in the trailer. Maybe I do think they will find it very difficult to resist having our Avengers who know Tony see Downey's face. Like, I don't think they'll be able to resist that. That's Speaker 4 (24:50) a Speaker 1 (24:50) good point. Right. So it Speaker 4 (24:51) feels inevitable. Yeah. Speaker 1 (24:52) Will it be? Will it be Cap? I know they're not like saying that Peter's in this movie. Will it be Peter? Speaker 1 (25:00) I think that that seems very likely to happen at some point. How scarred will the face be? We'll find out. We'll find out. Yeah, it definitely is like a Fantastic Four movie, which makes sense, obviously, given Doom. But because they had to, you know, change the plan from Kang to Doom, it doesn't have the, like, Thanos equivalent of we built across the Infinity Saga to this thing. So it makes sense to... Feige Speaker 3 (25:24) tried to walk that back a little bit, though. He was like, everybody's always like, you guys... You guys pebbled Thanos across 10 movies. He's like, Thanos would show up for like five seconds, sit in a chair, and everybody's like, what great storytelling. Speaker 1 (25:36) Yeah, it wasn't all like... It wasn't a Speaker 4 (25:38) perfectly orchestrated plan, but there was a plan. This is like, we have to fix a problem. And that doesn't mean it won't turn out to be good. It's a little interesting to use Doom now in a moment when they feel a little up against the wall because he is kind of like... there's a case that he is the great comic book villain. I agree with you. And so they make Apocalypse Rape. That's right. Well, again, watch X-Men 97 Season 2, you know? They're doing it all there. But Speaker 1 (26:06) you see that, to your point about Doom as a great villain, you see that moment. You know, I think when the RDJ is coming back news came out, there's the like, you know, inside us all we have two wolves and there's the, okay, Downey, like, is the MCU for many people exciting? I think also it felt like the most morally and creatively like bankrupt decision in the history of Speaker 3 (26:22) cinema. Speaker 1 (26:22) It's Speaker 3 (26:22) the Speaker 1 (26:22) sweatiest thing of all time. Right. Those maybe could both be true at once. You see Doom stick his hand out and stop Thor, stop Stormtrooper. It's like. This is sick. Maybe this will be sick. So there were a couple moments like that in the trailer that did get me hyped and get me jazzed. I agree with you guys that visually it looks appalling. And the fact that it will be coming out the same weekend is possibly one of the most visually astonishing movies we've had the pleasure of watching. Speaker 4 (26:49) Yeah. Dune Speaker 1 (26:50) Part 3 is... You know, that's not a comparison that I think is going to benefit Doomsday, but at least we get to see it in Infinity Vision. Speaker 3 (26:57) Dude, there's a lot of cap maintenance going on right now. A lot of cap maintenance? Yeah. These two movies get them all off the books. Right. Then we got all these young kids. Right. Sure. Oh, yeah. Because you can't make these movies for less than $200 million because of everybody's quote. They were like, Speaker 4 (27:13) we can make Eternals. And you're like, no, you can't. You're going to be in cap hell for the next five years. And, you know, now here we are. We're going to get cleared out. Next year, only three superhero movies. Beyond the Spider-Verse next summer. Speaker 1 (27:25) Can't wait. Speaker 4 (27:25) Man of Tomorrow next summer. Also Speaker 1 (27:27) pretty excited. Speaker 4 (27:28) And Secret Wars in December. And that's Speaker 1 (27:29) it. Hope it's great. Speaker 4 (27:30) That's the only time you'll have to hear us talk about superhero movies on this show. I think Secret Wars Speaker 3 (27:33) is going to nail back-to-back years like that. They're not going to delay it at all. They can't delay it. I Speaker 1 (27:38) don't think they can delay it. I don't think they can delay it. Speaker 4 (27:40) Okay. Starfighter. Speaker 1 (27:43) Yeah. Did Speaker 4 (27:43) they show a trailer Speaker 1 (27:44) to you? They showed a teaser trailer. Okay. And it was fucking electric. I've heard real mixed reports about this. I'm Speaker 4 (27:50) curious. Speaker 1 (27:50) No, not a joke. Not a joke. Speaker 4 (27:52) It looked like Drive? Be real. Speaker 1 (27:55) It's very much a trailer about the Starship. Like, it is very much framed as. So we learn Ryan Gosling's character's name is Cade Oberon. Speaker 3 (28:06) Cade Oberon? Speaker 1 (28:07) Yeah. Exciting stuff. Great name, sick name, cool name. Pitch for the Speaker 3 (28:10) Mariners? Yeah, Speaker 1 (28:12) you know, he's going to be right there. He's going to slot in after Brian Whittem, I think. Speaker 4 (28:20) Incredible jacket. I love Speaker 1 (28:21) George Kirby. I've had Logan Gilbert, Kirby, and Wu on the AL Only Keeper League that Jeff and I co-managed for the last few years. It's been a delightful experience. We've yet to win a title. Most Speaker 4 (28:32) of Bill's tweets are about his AL Keeper League now. Speaker 1 (28:34) Well, he has Kate Anderson as a keeper, which is unbelievable. So annoying. Is Kate over Speaker 4 (28:38) on it? Is he in the bullpen? Or where does he put... Speaker 1 (28:41) Yeah, exactly. High leverage reliever. Yeah, exactly. He's a set up guy. So he's got this sick leather jacket with this kind of skull sigil on the back. Does he seriously? Yeah. The kid who I thought from the initial image they released looked like a young child. Speaker 4 (28:56) They're Speaker 1 (28:56) aura farming Speaker 4 (28:57) our youth. That's my shit. This is incredible. Get your own shit. Speaker 1 (29:01) I thought the kid was much younger based on the image they released. Speaker 4 (29:04) He Speaker 1 (29:04) seems to be like a teen. Speaker 1 (29:07) It was a quick trailer and it was very much like, you know, fastest starship ever built. Can it be flown? Kind of a vibe. What's your favorite Sean Speaker 4 (29:16) Levy film? Speaker 1 (29:18) I Speaker 4 (29:19) like a few Speaker 1 (29:19) of his episodes of Stranger Things quite a bit. I enjoyed, obviously, Deadpool and Wolverine. Speaker 4 (29:24) Okay, that's number one for you? Quite Speaker 1 (29:25) loved the pegging joke in Deadpool and Wolverine. Thought that was inspired. Speaker 4 (29:29) Yeah, why is it funny when Olivia Wilde does it and not when Sean Levy does it, Chris? Answer me that. Speaker 3 (29:34) What's the one that went straight to Adam's song? What was that about? The Adam Speaker 4 (29:37) Project. The Adam Project. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. Speaker 4 (29:43) Kind of like real steel. Did you ever see that one? Hugh Jackman? Speaker 3 (29:46) Based on a Twilight Zone episode. Speaker 4 (29:48) Written by Richard Matheson. We will get into that shortly. Okay, so you're a pump for Starfighter. I Speaker 1 (29:53) thought it looked great. I mean, we didn't see much and I was also hoping that they would play it again. They Speaker 4 (29:57) trot that kid out there? Speaker 1 (29:58) No. Okay. No. Gosling was out there. He like switched jackets. Yeah, the kid. The kid who was supposed to be his lone wolf cub, kind of. Oh, that's the vibe they Speaker 4 (30:06) were doing? Speaker 1 (30:06) And Speaker 4 (30:06) I Speaker 1 (30:06) thought he was going to Speaker 4 (30:07) be Speaker 1 (30:07) much younger, but he seems to be a full-on teen, so I don't know. I haven't tried that Speaker 4 (30:10) before. We just did this. Yeah, Speaker 1 (30:12) I don't know. The visuals looked good. They really barely showed anything. Obviously, this is set in the future of the timeline. Five Speaker 4 (30:20) years later, apparently, after Rey. Yeah, post-First Order. So Speaker 1 (30:23) that's new. That's exciting to get to play in a different slice of the canon, a different slice of the timeline. And Speaker 4 (30:28) how do you feel about the theory that it's all... leading back to the big Rey Kylo story down the line that like they're not going to do the search for Ben Solo hunt for Ben Solo but they will bring all them back Dave Speaker 3 (30:41) Filoni was like that's not happening Speaker 4 (30:42) yeah Speaker 1 (30:43) yeah I mean that seems completely possible I don't know they can't stop making movies about the Speaker 3 (30:51) same Speaker 1 (30:51) characters we are old yeah it's next year's 50 years of Star Wars 50 5-0 50 how Speaker 3 (30:57) do you feel I feel pretty much the same. Yeah. Dead inside? Yeah. I mean, I... I mean, it's funny to just kind of just be sitting here at nearly 50 years old talking about this thing that's been in my life the entire time. But I guess in some ways, most people would say, what a lucky guy. What do you think Speaker 1 (31:15) more people will be celebrating next year? 50 years of Star Wars or 50 years of CR? Speaker 3 (31:19) Why not do it the same? Do it the same day. On Speaker 4 (31:21) the Speaker 3 (31:21) same day. Yeah. Speaker 4 (31:22) Should we get a big... What's the biggest movie theater we could possibly get to pile in and watch A New Hope together? Why don't you get me the Millennium Falcon? You want me to purchase it? Who owns the Millennium Falcon? Speaker 1 (31:33) Well, there is one at Galaxy's Edge. But Speaker 4 (31:35) that was a re-cree, as they say. Speaker 1 (31:37) But we could still go and sit in it to celebrate Chris's birthday. I don't Speaker 4 (31:40) think... Would you enjoy that? I really don't care for Anaheim very much. That's why you weren't at D23. A couple news and notes out of D23. The Bluey movie, announced for August 6th, 2027. Thumbs down by Andy Greenwald's younger daughter. Speaker 1 (31:54) Oh, no. That's upsetting. I've never seen a second of Speaker 3 (31:56) Bluey. Just Speaker 4 (31:57) in terms of the trailer, Speaker 3 (31:57) the different rendering of it. Speaker 1 (31:59) Oh. Speaker 4 (31:59) Yeah. It does have... The heightened, we have a slightly different animation style that differs from the TV show, which I'm not sure I totally understand. But I have a lot of faith in Joe Brum, the creator and writer and director of this Speaker 3 (32:15) movie. Speaker 4 (32:15) Has Speaker 3 (32:15) that Speaker 4 (32:15) come into your Speaker 3 (32:16) life yet? Hardcore? Speaker 4 (32:17) Bluey? Yeah. Oh, been for years. Oh, before, Speaker 3 (32:19) pre-Alice, you were just rocking Bluey episodes? No, no. I mean, Alice is five years old. We've been watching it since Speaker 4 (32:25) she was like two years old. Speaker 3 (32:26) I Speaker 4 (32:26) wouldn't say we watch it very much now, but... If we popped it on, she would be wrapped. Okay. You know, the fascinating thing about Bluey, of course, is that every episode is eight minutes long. Speaker 1 (32:36) Right. So Speaker 4 (32:36) the idea of a 90-minute film is sort of antithetical to the magic of the show. Interesting. We shall see. That movie will make $500 million easily. That is one of the most encoded things for all parents of the last 15 years that exists. Tangled live action. Huge news for Alice. Horrible news for this podcast. I'm going to have to do an episode about this movie, which I'm sure will be terrible. Speaker 1 (32:57) But Catherine Hahn is in it, so that's exciting. She rules. Speaker 4 (33:00) She's great. Diego Luna is great. Katrina Balfe is great. Will you be on that episode? March 31st, 2028. I'll be here. You'll be 50 by then. Pixar, four titles. Speaker 1 (33:12) This was the highlight of D23 by, I think, a comfortable margin, the Pixar presentation. We already Speaker 4 (33:16) knew Gato was coming next year. It's about a mafia cat, a cat in the mafia. Speaker 1 (33:21) That's correct. About a cat who was in the cat mafia in Venice, Italy. And when the Pixar presentation started, I just kept, I was like, Gato, Gato, Gato. A while ago, I texted Sean Mahoney and Joe Gato, first pick in the 2027 House of R Hype draft. Nobody replied, but I'm on the record. You know what I Speaker 3 (33:42) love about you is that you don't take disinterest as a side of hostility. You text a thread. It just means I have Speaker 1 (33:49) to work harder to make this a shared experience. You Speaker 3 (33:52) text a thread with literally zero other Baltimore Orioles fans on it. Updates about like an Orioles reliever. And nobody responds. We don't even heart it. I find it comforting. I'll Speaker 4 (34:03) never respond to it, but I find it comforting. Speaker 3 (34:05) Three unanswered texts of like screenshot of the standings, screenshot of a guy's batting average. And it's just like, I don't know. That's Speaker 4 (34:11) how Speaker 3 (34:11) Gunner's doing. He Speaker 4 (34:12) does his shit. I don't care. Speaker 1 (34:13) You did respond once this season. Actually twice. It was about Pete. And then. Pete Speaker 4 (34:19) Alonzo. Speaker 1 (34:19) You sent me a very rude, very rude follow up about Gunner's OPS. And I think I took a brief pause from sending Oriole updates. But now I'm back. Now I'm back. Gato looks amazing. They showed an extended clip and a trailer. Just looks great. Just looks tremendous. And the hand-painted animation style looks beautiful. I will see this film in Speaker 3 (34:39) theaters. You will? I Speaker 1 (34:41) can't Speaker 3 (34:41) wait. Will you be looking for... My wife likes cats a lot. Speaker 4 (34:44) But Speaker 3 (34:44) will Speaker 4 (34:44) you be looking for an underage wife figure a la Apollonia from The Godfather that you can admire? Speaker 3 (34:53) I was on the sort of like more safe side of that. I wouldn't say so. Spectrum of opinion, I think. You were? I think so. I think Bill was the one who was like... Jack, Speaker 4 (35:02) let's play the tape. Godfather Rewatchables episode. Let's run that clip. Speaker 3 (35:05) That was also a time when I don't think we understood maybe people were listening to that podcast. Speaker 4 (35:10) I think what you said on the episode was, I would frequently whip it out and stare at myself in the mirror during those scenes. Speaker 1 (35:16) Yeah, that's right. Is that what Speaker 4 (35:17) you said? Speaker 1 (35:18) It is. I remember. I remember listening to it. Speaker 4 (35:21) Incredibles 3. Speaker 1 (35:22) Wonderful news. That's coming out. Speaker 4 (35:23) Peter Sohn directing, not Brad Bird, who has a movie later this year for Netflix called Ray Gunn. And then a film called Ghost Market. Speaker 1 (35:29) This Speaker 4 (35:29) looked amazing. I liked the log line, the idea. Speaker 1 (35:33) Yeah, they showed some footage from this as well. It looked fantastic. The kid who I believe was described by Pete Docter, if memory serves here, I'm going off the dome. The kid is a, the protagonist is a content creator from Chicago. Speaker 1 (35:47) And he goes to Hawaii and winds up in the ghost market. Looked great. What's Speaker 3 (35:51) the ghost market? Speaker 1 (35:51) A market. Speaker 3 (35:53) Dark web. Speaker 1 (35:54) Run by ghosts. Well, I'm asking Speaker 3 (35:55) pointedly because I had had an unanswered pitch in Pixar called Wet Market. That was about a bat. Wet. Not a pendulum. Wet? Wet? It's a joke. When? About, yeah, Mulan. Speaker 1 (36:09) I got it. Speaker 3 (36:10) Will you be going to Coco 2 in 2029? I haven't seen Coco 1, so I would