The Flops Movie Draft

The Big Picture

In 'The Flops Movie Draft,' hosts Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins, joined by Bill Simmons, explore the cultural and financial impact of cinematic failures. The

Key takeaways

• Flops are defined not just by financial loss but by the gap between hype and reality, creating a sense of collective disappointment.
• Historic flops like Heaven's Gate and Waterworld became cultural touchstones, symbolizing studio overreach and creative missteps.

Main topics

• Cinematic flops as cultural phenomena
• Historical box office disasters (Heaven's Gate, Waterworld, Howard the Duck)

Notable quotes

'Waterworld was financially okay but never close to what they imagined—and it was critically reviled.'

'Heaven's Gate became a national news story. It bankrupted a studio and became a book.'

Conclusion

The episode underscores that flops are more than financial failures—they're moments of cultural reckoning where audience

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:15) I'm Sean Fennessey. Speaker 1 (0:16) I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this Speaker 4 (0:17) is the Big Picture, a conversation show about flops. CR is here and we are drafting again, and so is Bill Simmons. Today we have a very special draft for you since we're in the direct, since we're in the quiet part of the release calendar. The last week of August, we're talking about flops. Speaker 2 (0:33) Is that Teleprompter? Right after this, yeah. Speaker 4 (0:36) Okay, Bill, you're here. Yeah. You heard about this. And Speaker 2 (0:40) you Speaker 4 (0:41) wanted in on this. Speaker 2 (0:41) Yeah, I like flops. You do? Yeah. I think we have to have some honor with this draft, though. Because by the categories, I think you could get, you could be like, Dazed and Confused, flop, didn't do well. It has to be something that was considered to be disappointing when it came out. Okay. I think that's a really important part for this. Speaker 4 (0:58) That was what I wanted to talk about with you guys first because we're in this moment where Spider-Man Brand New Day might become, it has a chance to become, an outside chance to become the biggest movie of all time. It's probably going to come up a little bit short of that, but I would say it caught me by surprise that it could get that big. And then the immediate after effect of that is a bunch of movies coming out in August and people are like, I'm good, no thanks. I've got Spider-Man. I'm not going to see anything else. I saw The Odyssey and I saw Spider-Man and I don't need to see any movies. Just you and Speaker 5 (1:25) me in one movie theater alone watching Dog Stars. Speaker 1 (1:29) Excuse me, I will also be there. Dog Stars is Speaker 4 (1:31) coming out this Friday. We'll see how Speaker 2 (1:33) it Speaker 4 (1:33) does. Speaker 2 (1:34) Feels good stuff in the theater. We almost went to the movies last night and there was like five movies at the Grove I wanted to see. And then what happened? It'll be on streaming in two weeks. I'll wait. Yeah. Speaker 4 (1:43) Flop still happened. Speaker 2 (1:44) Yeah. But Speaker 4 (1:44) I feel like when I was thinking about this idea, I was thinking more about the 90s. I was thinking more about Kevin Costner's face being plastered across Variety the weekend after Waterworld came out. Something like that. I don't know. What do you think about it? Yeah. I'm Speaker 5 (1:57) in the Waterworld postman. double feature of the mid-90s for him. Speaker 4 (2:02) You pronounced it Speaker 5 (2:02) Postman? I did. I don't know why. Like Phil Spider-Man? Speaker 1 (2:05) Yeah, I Speaker 5 (2:05) think there's obviously like... I think maybe you're Speaker 1 (2:09) doing like Italian El Postino. El Postman. Speaker 5 (2:13) Obviously like Heaven's Gate and Ishtar are historic box office catastrophes that sunk. careers and studios but water world was the one i think for the premier magazine generation that people for two years have been reading about like wow he's gonna try he's gonna go for it he's gonna do it and it sounds like there are problems and it sounds like there are bigger problems and then it never made a dollar or whatever i mean in in truth water world i think actually was financially okay it did okay okay but it was never close to what they imagined and also is a critically reviled turkey. I Speaker 4 (2:47) think that speaks to what Bill was saying, which is like, we got to have some honor because Waterworld, I think, is still understood as a flop. Speaker 3 (2:51) Yes. Speaker 4 (2:52) It maybe wasn't as bad a financial loss as some other movies that we'll talk about, but it didn't do well enough. I don't know. How do you think about it? You think about it critically too? Speaker 1 (3:01) A little bit, because I was trying to think of you put in the outline, the prompt of what's the first flop that you remember. And I think some of it can be the water world that's covered in the trade for so long or now, especially since we follow the business so closely, you know, weeks in advance, like, oh, no one's going to go see that movie. Like, oh, you know. whatever Julia Roberts was doing from 2010 to 2024 is just like DOA with love and respect to one of my favorite movie stars. But I do also remember the feeling of going to the movie theaters and I had been sold a bill of goods. And then I was like, oh, this is just not good. I don't know why I'm here right now. And that is more of the critical flop. And also just kind of. When the system is breaking and the audience has become aware and they're just like, oh, you guys didn't have this at all. And we all pretended like this was going to be a real movie. Snyder versus DC movies. And Speaker 5 (3:59) this is Speaker 1 (3:59) not a movie. Speaker 5 (4:00) Feel that way. Yeah. I wish Speaker 1 (4:01) you luck. Speaker 5 (4:01) Oh, man. This Speaker 2 (4:02) is the rest of my life. Yes. Yes. What about for you? Do you remember the first time you. Probably Heaven's Gate. Yeah. I didn't go see it, but it was the first time I remember hearing dialogue about a flop. Speaker 3 (4:12) But Speaker 2 (4:12) because I don't remember New York, New York and some of the other ones from the 70s that people were disappointed by. But Heaven's Gate, it felt like that became like a national news story. I don't know because people read newspapers back then. It was like bankrupted a studio, became a book. But the first one I remember that I had real opinions on was probably Howard the Duck because they put a lot of money behind it. I had a crush on Leah Thompson. Wrote for her. Bought some season tickets for her. And it was just really bad and kind of inexplicable. And then it came on cable and it was like, wow, what happened? But that was the first time I remember the concept of it. And then the 90s is when it really took root. I think Waterworld was like kind of the apex mountain of flop conversation, I would say. Speaker 4 (4:59) Yeah. I think those are three like pretty historic examples because Howard the Duck produced by George Lucas. Like there was this expectation that it was going to be like an event movie and like maybe even a franchise. Yeah. Heaven's Gate obviously cited as like the end of the new Hollywood basically. The movie that kind of killed that glorious period in the 70s. Waterworld. I feel like it's about hubris, you know, and like not sometimes there's these movies where like a director or a star is like, I can do anything. Sure. There's like nothing that. Speaker 1 (5:28) Sometimes there's a Kevin Costner movie. Or multiple. Speaker 2 (5:32) But sometimes that works out because Titanic was considered to be going to be a flop and it wasn't. There's been a lot of we thought this was going to not Speaker 5 (5:39) work out, Speaker 2 (5:40) but then it did. Speaker 5 (5:41) Right. It's also always fascinating to see what augers or is the like the canary in the coal mine for a flop, like for Heaven's Gate. infamously it was this vincent canby review uh where he reviewed like not an early version of it or was it an early version i'm not Speaker 3 (5:56) sure Speaker 5 (5:56) he was one of the first guys out to review heaven's gate and it was so negative that it almost started this snowball effect of other critics being like no i think it's a bigger piece of shit it's even more above of an abomination sometimes it can be you see an ad for a movie and you're just like oh they didn't get it they did like There's something wrong with this ad, like this trailer or this ad campaign that you can just feel if you're watching a football game with other people. They're like, what is this fucking thing? And you can tell like there's just no juice for the movie. So I always find it fascinating to kind of feel like what's the first moment you knew this wasn't going to work for a movie and how rare it is the movie can like turn out of that. Speaker 4 (6:35) We were just having a conversation about reshoots and how a lot of movies now do reshoots. And back in the day, if you heard about reshoots, you were like, oh, this is huge trouble. Now it's like a little bit more commonly expected, but it's still an indicator in the news. Speaker 5 (6:47) Cliff Booth being Speaker 2 (6:48) in it. Yes. Speaker 4 (6:49) Well, Cliff Booth, Social Reckoning. They both had really late period reshoots. And Long Speaker 2 (6:53) Shoots, too, is another one. My dad, who I learned a lot from movies about, and especially re-watching the same movie over and over again, which was a big thing for him with Clint Eastwood and some Speaker 4 (7:01) others. Speaker 2 (7:01) Did Speaker 4 (7:01) that Speaker 2 (7:01) come up in your Speaker 4 (7:02) career later, re-watching movies? Yeah, later. Yeah. Speaker 2 (7:06) His big thing was that the Globe, the Boston Globe, didn't review it. Speaker 1 (7:10) He's like, bad Speaker 2 (7:11) sign. There's no review today. That means it probably like he sniffed that out early. And would that Speaker 1 (7:16) incentivize him to seek out the movie? No. Speaker 2 (7:19) It was more like the Globe didn't review it. That means. He was smart enough to be like, that probably means they didn't screen it. If they didn't screen it, that probably means it's not good. The Speaker 5 (7:28) version of that that was at my house was with my dad reviewing movies. It would be they're hiding it from us. Speaker 3 (7:34) But that Speaker 5 (7:35) was what they did. They would kill his deadline. So like if it would be like Thursday, they'd be like, you can see the Leprechaun 2 now. He'd be like, I'm not reviewing this because it gives me, because I'm trying to go to the bar. Did Desmond Speaker 4 (7:46) review Leprechaun 2? Speaker 5 (7:48) He did. He hated it. Did he see Leprechaun 1? I Speaker 4 (7:51) think so. Generally, Speaker 5 (7:52) he found it offensive. Speaker 5 (7:55) Oh, the Irish popped out. Speaker 4 (7:57) Wow. Speaker 5 (7:57) The English went quiet for a second. But yeah, he would talk about, oh, they're hiding this movie from us, which you've discussed before as well. It Speaker 4 (8:06) doesn't happen as much. I think they Speaker 5 (8:06) do it now. Well, they just don't do it. Speaker 4 (8:08) It's really hard because what they try to do now is they try to pit the fans against the critics. So they'll have like fan screenings or influencer-led screenings, but then they won't show it to critics until the last minute. So it's this kind of... it's like a miasma. Like they're trying to trick you into thinking like, well, people who really understand this material will really like it. You know, whereas like these haughty critics or these journalists, they don't understand what you really like, which is all like a lie. Like they know when a movie isn't it. Like we went to Masters of the Universe. I went with Van and Mahoney was there too. And we were talking afterwards about how we were like way outnumbered at that screening. Like it was a lot of like He-Man guys, you know, guys who were really excited about that world and not people who were there to review the movie or talk about it on pods. Speaker 2 (8:49) The PR tour is another sign. If the stars aren't promoting the movie at all, red flag, right? Speaker 4 (8:56) There's an inverse of that though, which is sometimes because people know the movie is a dog, they'll do too much press. So like sometimes when you see people being booked on things that they wouldn't normally do, it's because they're really nervous. that the movie's not going to perform. So there's like all of this tea Speaker 2 (9:12) leaf reading. Like Charlize is on Hot Ones just fucking throwing up chicken wings because she's in a bomb. Sometimes Speaker 5 (9:18) you'll be like, why is McConaughey on 74 Pods? And it's like, oh, because this like random indie, not random, but this indie movie that's only in like 40 theaters is out. But like he's doing like Diary of Speaker 2 (9:29) a Speaker 5 (9:29) CEO. Speaker 2 (9:30) There's another one where there's like a shit detector test with some of these. Like Runner Runner is a good example. where there was like good people in that movie and yet there was no buzz at all. Koppelman and Levine were suspiciously quiet about it. I was like, there's just, nobody's kind of talking about this one. Speaker 1 (9:48) Yeah. And Speaker 2 (9:49) then it just kind of came and went and there was a reason for it. So you made a Speaker 5 (9:52) distinction earlier in the podcast, like when we first started about like, so you just dazed and confused as an example, but one of the phenomenons I think of, and maybe one of the loopholes of this 90s stuff is that there was a home video market where movies could have pretty active second lives. Reservoir Dogs. Yeah, so Dogs is an example. I don't want to name too many because they may come up or they may not. But we can't have Reservoir Dogs in this draft. No, see, to Speaker 4 (10:16) me, those movies should not be eligible because that's like an independently made, modestly budgeted movie that played festivals that was never intended to be a big blockbuster. Speaker 5 (10:26) It's good to look at the reported budget of these movies and it's like, well... Yeah, maybe this movie lost $5 million, but did anybody really think it was going to make $75 million or $100 million back then? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I Speaker 4 (10:42) think it's an expectation game mostly, right? Like, what do we think a movie should do based on the stars, based on the filmmaker, based on the premise versus, hey, here's a cool small movie. Those movies are not... pure flops. I Speaker 5 (10:56) don't know about you guys. I'm just happy to play a game with people who aren't too particular about rules and competitive nature. So it's just cool. Yeah, I feel like I'm going to storm out. Speaker 3 (11:05) Like three o'clock. Speaker 2 (11:06) There was a tremendous Speaker 1 (11:07) amount of conversation and pushback from you and then this morning a dramatic reveal. That was Speaker 2 (11:16) tough. I really had a hard time all weekend with this. I was like, this is the fucking hardest movie draft I've ever been in. These are usually pretty easy. But it turned out I'd mixed the show. I'd confused the text with another text. Speaker 4 (11:31) This is a challenging premise because there's a lot of specifics for what defines a flop. But you doubled your work. You thought that all of the traditional categories that we usually do that you lasted when you were on the show were also going to be included in addition to these new categories. I thought you were Speaker 2 (11:45) merging them together. And Speaker 4 (11:46) all Speaker 2 (11:47) of a sudden, I'm trying to figure out Oscar nominees. What happened? What's going Speaker 4 (11:50) on at home? Speaker 2 (11:51) I just... Speaker 5 (11:52) Just screwed up. It's got a lot on its plate. Turns Speaker 2 (11:55) out not a lot of Oscar nominees were flops. No. Yeah. Really hard to... It was like Endless Love. It was like, oh, I got nominated for Best Song. I was at that level of Speaker 3 (12:05) research. Speaker 2 (12:05) That would have been a cool thing to Speaker 4 (12:06) do because there are a lot of like big ticket blockbuster-y movies that would get like a VFX nomination. Sure, Speaker 3 (12:11) sure. Speaker 4 (12:11) I wouldn't get in Speaker 5 (12:12) Chronicles of Riddick. I bet it did get like... You think it got Speaker 4 (12:15) an Oscar Speaker 5 (12:15) nom? Possibly. Have you seen Speaker 4 (12:17) that? Oh, Speaker 5 (12:17) yeah. I had a lot of Riddick stock for a minute. Speaker 4 (12:20) Riddick stock? Speaker 5 (12:21) Yeah, I thought it was like a cool character. Speaker 4 (12:23) Rank the Riddicks. Riddick Bowe, Louis Riddick, Riddick from Pitch Black. Oh, Speaker 5 (12:27) by far Riddick from Pitch Black. Okay. You know your character. Louis Riddick last. Speaker 4 (12:33) Okay, should I explain the categories? Speaker 2 (12:35) Yeah. So Speaker 4 (12:36) they're not as Bill thought, drama, comedy, wild card, Oscar, etc. Here's what we're doing. After some debate, and I appreciate the debate about what we should do here. One is less than $30 million domestic wide release. Now, with the caveat that indies and small movies are not qualifying here. We're talking about studio movies, movies that were expected to make a lot of money. Number two, Starbomb. This is a movie star vehicle. From a well-known person who probably overstepped a little bit. So this Speaker 3 (13:07) will have the most negotiation with the pics. Speaker 1 (13:10) Okay. Speaker 2 (13:10) Okay. I think it has to be agreed on that this movie ultimately was considered to be bad for the star. Speaker 1 (13:17) Oh. Speaker 5 (13:17) When it came out. I didn't take it to mean that. Speaker 1 (13:20) Yeah. Speaker 5 (13:21) It Speaker 2 (13:21) didn't do well, but even if it did okay. We're Speaker 5 (13:24) picking Speaker 1 (13:24) movies. Speaker 2 (13:25) But Waterworld did okay. Like it made the money back. Oh, in that sense, yes. I understand what you're saying. You Speaker 1 (13:30) know what I Speaker 2 (13:30) mean? Yes. But that still was bad for CrossFit. It's Speaker 1 (13:32) still Speaker 2 (13:32) an Speaker 1 (13:32) avatars around his neck. I Speaker 2 (13:34) think if there's some sort of collateral damage to the star. You know, then that's it. Speaker 1 (13:40) Okay. The Speaker 4 (13:41) next category is the $100 million Losers Club. Adjusted for inflation. Adjusted for inflation. Speaker 2 (13:47) That was a key add because there were not a lot of $100 million. We Speaker 4 (13:52) could Speaker 2 (13:52) be Speaker 4 (13:52) drafting movies from the 90s that did. adjusted for inflation, lose $100 million. The Speaker 2 (13:56) next category is Ebert, zero stars. This was amazing. Speaker 4 (14:00) Yeah. I never read this full list. I can't wait. Speaker 1 (14:03) It's really quite something. Speaker 4 (14:03) There is a list of films that Roger Ebert gave zero stars. And actually, what's most interesting to me about the list is what isn't on the list. You know, like you see there's some obvious stuff. There's some surprising stuff. We'll talk about it. We'll be able to get some actually good movies, I think, out of this category. Next category is sub 25 % on Rotten Tomatoes. Speaker 2 (14:19) Another really fun list. The final category. With Rotten Tomatoes, could it have been either side? Critic side or fan side? I was thinking Speaker 4 (14:27) just critics. Speaker 3 (14:28) I was Speaker 4 (14:29) as well. Are there any films that are sub 25 % with fans? They're usually so much more forgiving. Speaker 2 (14:34) Because fans are stupid. Is that what you're saying? I didn't say that. I said Speaker 4 (14:36) they're forgiving. The popcorn meter or whatever? What do you look at first? Popcorn meter. Always. Fuck the critics. I'm Speaker 5 (14:44) a Speaker 4 (14:44) populist. Speaker 5 (14:44) You are. CR. Speaker 4 (14:48) The last category is failed franchise launch. So this is a movie that was, there was hopes of it being a multi-part saga of some kind and the franchise stopped after this Speaker 2 (15:00) movie. Speaker 4 (15:00) There's Speaker 2 (15:00) going Speaker 4 (15:00) to Speaker 2 (15:00) be Speaker 4 (15:00) some Speaker 2 (15:00) huge fights on that category. Speaker 4 (15:02) To me, this is a more modern phenomenon. This is a much more most recent 20, 25 years than it is going back to the 80s or 90s. But there are some examples in the 80s and 90s for sure. And I would say most of this conversation will be about the 80s, 90s, and 2000s. Because we didn't really think of movies in quite the same way in terms of box office and critical revulsion as we do now. I Speaker 5 (15:22) would say a couple of these have... They're open to interpretation and I look forward to a healthy debate while we make our picks. And I'll just say that I'm going to lead with love and that I think it's a... Speaker 1 (15:31) That's beautiful. I Speaker 5 (15:33) think that we're going to make some allowances for longtime friends here. Speaker 4 (15:37) Do Speaker 5 (15:38) you think that's going to happen? I hope. Speaker 4 (15:39) I hope. How do you feel? Speaker 1 (15:42) I'm reevaluating how I defined. I'm back in the saddle. I'm thrilled to be back with my guys, including Bill. Amanda Speaker 2 (15:51) and I have had a great month. We did Apollo 13. Got lost in space. That's true. Speaker 1 (15:56) We talked a lot about sports. He's very supportive to me. Yeah. So it's lovely. She did her Speaker 2 (16:00) Kathleen Quinlan impersonation, which I know you guys have both seen. Help Speaker 1 (16:04) me back on Monday, Friday. I, so we just, redefine Starbomb in a way where I feel like I'm going to have to do a lot of Googling right now. So that's where my headspace is. Speaker 4 (16:15) You're distracted. I can see you kind of slipped out of the park for a second. Yeah, I did. But that was just kind Speaker 1 (16:18) of like, oh, no, I didn't think about this right. And that's okay. I'll get there. Can Speaker 2 (16:22) I ask about the goal for the draft? Yes. Are these movies that you like or are they flaptastic? I'm treating this as you want to put together the Speaker 5 (16:32) best collection of movies to you that you can while also abiding by the... So I Speaker 4 (16:39) like that definition and I won't try to disabuse you of it. But I also think if you have a slate that is the floppiest of flop slate slates, that's also kind of interesting to me. Like if you want that to be your goal and then you can make a case for those movies as interesting artifacts of movie history. Speaker 2 (16:55) Sure. I might just take all politically incorrect flops. That's going to might be my strategy. There's a few, few great ones in here. Yeah. Speaker 5 (17:03) Starting with your hat. Speaker 4 (17:09) Okay, we have a draft order that was recorded by Jack Sanders before he went on vacation. Howard. Here he is. Oh, Speaker 3 (17:17) wow. Producer Jack here to deliver the draft order for the first ever Flops movie draft. Very excited to give somebody the first overall pick for Babylon. Selecting first, wow, Sean Fennessey. Wow, Speaker 1 (17:33) there you go. Speaker 3 (17:34) That's big. Go figure. Speaker 3 (17:37) I already know Bill is going to claim this is rigged. Speaker 1 (17:39) Yeah. Speaker 3 (17:40) There we go. Bill is selecting second. Speaker 2 (17:43) Good instinct. Speaker 3 (17:44) Okay, not helping. Amanda Dobbins. Oh, interesting. Okay. Speaker 1 (17:48) Shocker. Speaker 2 (17:49) I Speaker 3 (17:49) promise I don't rig these things. I don't really even see how valuable that would be for me. Selecting third. That's Chris. Speaker 3 (17:59) Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan will be drafting fourth. Happy drafting. Now, Speaker 4 (18:04) is there an undisputed number one overall draft pick here, you think? No. I don't think so. I Speaker 1 (18:10) don't think so. Speaker 4 (18:11) And I think that we're probably not even targeting most of the same movies, right? Probably not. And yet, I still feel chafed. Speaker 1 (18:18) I think there will be more arguing about the rules than about theft. Speaker 5 (18:24) This Speaker 1 (18:24) one's tricky. This involved... Like a lot of actual box office research. Also, I just say to you once again, what have they done to all the box office websites? And then I am redefining in my head what many of these categories mean and also what my goals are. Because if you're just going to shoot the moon and do the worst movies. Speaker 2 (18:45) Or am I? Speaker 1 (18:46) I guess we don't know. We'll Speaker 2 (18:47) find Speaker 1 (18:47) out after I pick. You're Speaker 4 (18:49) the tone setter Speaker 5 (18:50) here. Speaker 1 (18:51) Yeah. Okay. Speaker 4 (18:51) I know what I want to pick and I'm pleased about it. I'm going Ebert Zero Stars first and I'm going with one of my favorite reviews of all time and I'm selecting Freddy Got Fingered, Tom Green's star vehicle, which is a movie I saw in theaters and absolutely loved. Thought it was hysterical. Number Speaker 1 (19:06) one. Speaker 4 (19:07) I thought. Speaker 1 (19:08) I mean, here we are. Speaker 4 (19:09) I thought this movie was. So stupid and so wonderful. And I'd like to read you a brief passage from Ebert's review to commemorate this first overall pick. Speaker 2 (19:20) Yeah. Speaker 4 (19:21) This movie doesn't scrape the bottom of the barrel. This movie isn't the bottom of the barrel. This movie isn't below the bottom of the barrel. This movie doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same Speaker 5 (19:32) sentence with barrels. Speaker 4 (19:34) That's how he felt about this movie. He fucking hated it. And he rejected the premise. that it was a surreal masterpiece. Right. You know, which was, it was immediately reclaimed as some brilliant revisionist idea. A.O. Scott wrote about this, that there was something singular about Tom Green's vision in this movie. I'm not sure if I even need to present it as just, I think it's really funny when he's... How many times have you Speaker 5 (19:54) watched it over the course of your life? I mean, it was on Speaker 4 (19:56) HBO a lot after it came out. Yeah. So, 15? I mean, many times. And I've always had a really good time with it. And it basically killed his career. Speaker 2 (20:05) There was a social media clip of Tom Green. Somebody came on his talk show on MTV and tried to set the desk on fire and he got mad at the person and it was super awkward. And the tweet was, this is what changed the course of Tom Green's career. We need to have a sense of humor about this. I was good the entire time being against Tom Green and never thinking he was going to have a career. You were anti. I never got it. I never understood it. I thought he was funny in Road Trip. That was the one time I thought he was kind of humorous. He wasn't really my bag. Just didn't get it. Speaker 4 (20:35) You guys are just a little too old. Speaker 1 (20:37) He married Barrymore, right? Speaker 4 (20:39) He did. He did. I Speaker 1 (20:40) logged on for that part of the Tom Green experience. But otherwise, I was just. They were married Speaker 2 (20:44) when this happened. Oh, Speaker 1 (20:45) OK. That was Speaker 2 (20:46) one of the all time. This one's not going to last. I can remember between two celebrities. The over under was a year. But Speaker 1 (20:53) I would say Tom Green's appeal to me in that moment was just an over, not a full circle with Drew Barrymore. And then once he was gone. Have you seen Freddy Got Speaker 4 (21:03) Fingered? No. He sings a song called Daddy, Would You Like Some Sausage? Okay. While playing a keyboard that is attached to sausages that are strung throughout his home. And he sings it to Rip Torn, legendary actor. Okay. It's a very special movie. When is it going to be on the rewatchables? Speaker 2 (21:18) Rip Torn has had a lot of things that he's done in his career that he probably hopes there are copies of. Or that Speaker 5 (21:22) he's like, I don't have any memory of making. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 (21:25) I wasn't really there. Okay. That's the first overall Speaker 5 (21:27) pick. Speaker 2 (21:27) Interesting first pick. I think it would have been available a couple rounds later. Speaker 4 (21:30) Yeah. But it was a tone setter. I'm Speaker 1 (21:32) trying Speaker 4 (21:32) to have fun here. Speaker 1 (21:33) So now I feel like I should be having more fun. And... Speaker 1 (21:40) I'll have a medium amount of fun. So I figured out star flop where I want to go with this, which is having fun, being true to the category and also incredibly eligible and maybe probably not taking away from anyone else. How do you know? No question mark from Reese Witherspoon. Yeah. Killed a few careers. So you're taking that Speaker 2 (22:03) for Starbomb and not $100 million loser? I am. Speaker 1 (22:05) Okay. Yeah. I mean, were you going to take it for $100 million loser? No, Speaker 2 (22:09) I just thought it Speaker 1 (22:09) was eligible for both. It's eligible in many categories. But I do think that, I mean, this killed, not killed, but certainly put a pause on and re-trajectoried Reese Witherspoon's career. James L. Brooks, tough. Romantic comedy, as you can argue, died in this moment. And in fact, the great Amy Nicholson piece, I think it was 2014, about who killed the romantic comedy. Speaker 4 (22:34) How Speaker 1 (22:34) do you know is located as kind of like the great just things not working out despite so much money, so much talent, so much history? I can't say that I enjoy watching this movie. But there is something about I like everyone involved and I'm amused that it happened. It is it is pop culturally significant. You Speaker 2 (23:00) left out softball. Speaker 1 (23:01) Sure. Speaker 2 (23:04) Softball was a big part of this movie and has, I don't think, ever been part of another movie. I think this was the one time and only. This movie ended a lot of things. Speaker 1 (23:13) Yeah, okay. It's Speaker 2 (23:14) really bad. My wife really wanted to like it and just couldn't get there. What was the Jim Brooks, Nick Nolte movie? Speaker 5 (23:20) I'll Do Anything. I'll Do Anything, this one, the How Do You Know No Question Mark and Alan McKay. A couple of... Yeah. A Speaker 3 (23:27) triumvirate Speaker 4 (23:28) of unsuccessful movies. that are then dotted with incredibly successful movies around it. Crazy career. This is the last Jack Nicholson part. This is the last performance he ever gave in a Speaker 5 (23:38) movie. Speaker 4 (23:38) He's Paul Speaker 5 (23:38) Rudd's dad. It's 16 Speaker 4 (23:40) years ago. He hasn't been in a movie. A historic Speaker 1 (23:42) film in its own way. Speaker 4 (23:44) Good pick. It's most definitely a flop. Bill Simmons, you're up. Speaker 2 (23:50) I wore my Andoril hat because I knew we'd be dropping some bombs today. This first pick is not a bomb. Okay. But it is a knee-bird zero-star review. I can't believe it's still available. Police Academy. I genuinely like this movie. Me Speaker 3 (24:07) too. Saw Speaker 2 (24:07) it in the theater. It led to like seven different sequels. And, you know, I get to say this on the rewatchable sometimes. Raj, fuck off. Zero stars was harsh. Police Academy is solid. The audience laughed. Tackleberry? Yeah. Had some funny moments. Leslie Easterbrook? He's funny in this movie. Leslie Speaker 4 (24:26) Easterbrook, you say? Leslie Easterbrook. Talented lady. Important person of the 80s to a certain demo. Absolutely. She Speaker 2 (24:32) had some skills. Gutenberg. This really launched him to something. Were you pro-Goot? I was. I like Goot. He's great in this. Goot Speaker 4 (24:40) had a nice run. Did that cross your path at all? Police Academy films? I Speaker 1 (24:45) don't think so. I think, but Gutenberg was one of the three men and a baby. And he was in Steiner. So I was there for that. Michael Speaker 2 (24:52) Winslow doing weird voices. He's in this. Solid movie. Speaker 4 (24:59) Ebert famously, real blind spot on sophomoric comedies. Speaker 2 (25:04) Yeah, no question. Speaker 4 (25:05) He didn't really get, he didn't get Chris Farley, he didn't get Sandler, he didn't get Police Academy. It wasn't his bag. Speaker 2 (25:12) We've done a couple where he just scathing reviews and it's usually, Speaker 2 (25:18) raunchy he hates unnecessary kind of veering on the sex side but in ways that's not really I don't know good intentions he really hates that what Speaker 5 (25:30) is Raj like though he likes story Raj likes story and character guess who didn't have either of those things police academy do Speaker 2 (25:38) you have a Speaker 4 (25:38) favorite police academy movie Speaker 5 (25:39) citizens on patrol I was asking me Speaker 2 (25:42) I Speaker 4 (25:42) think one is that number four Speaker 5 (25:44) that's the one where it's like everybody can be a cop Yeah. Oh, yeah. Of course you believe it. It's Speaker 4 (25:49) kind of lying as prequel. Speaker 2 (25:51) Yeah. Speaker 5 (25:53) So Speaker 2 (25:53) I'm going to take that. Okay. And then that's the Raj. You don't have the turn. You don't have the turn. So I Speaker 3 (25:57) have Speaker 2 (25:57) the turn. What do you mean there's no turn? No, it's Chris's turn. It's my turn. No, I don't have the turn. I don't have the turn. You're not on the turn. Damn it. Speaker 4 (26:06) Let's have... Wow, Citizens on Patrol had Leslie Easterbrook and Colleen Camp. Speaker 5 (26:12) Sheesh. Speaker 4 (26:12) Damn. And Sharon Stone. Oh my God. Speaker 5 (26:15) What the hell? Important franchise. What is Raj doing? Okay, for Star Misfire... Yeah. Speaker 4 (26:21) You said Starflop. You're saying Misfire. The name of the category is Starbomb. Speaker 5 (26:25) Starbomb. For Starbomb, I'll do Brad Pitt for The Assassination of Jesse James. Wow. Speaker 2 (26:30) Good choice. Which Speaker 5 (26:31) is one of my favorite movies of the century, but also a movie that made $4 million domestically. What happened? Well, I think Andrew Dominick is a very deliberate director, and it took a while to finish this film. And I think Brad Pitt is a hands-on producer and probably worked on it in his... Deliberate way. And then it turned out that America didn't want to watch a meditative tone poem scored by Nick Cave about how Casey Affleck was an autistic guy who killed Jesse James. And that is basically what the movie's about. But the cast is dynamite. It's Pitt, Affleck, Jeremy Renner, Sam Rockwell, Zooey Deschanel, Mary Louise Parker. Sam Shepard. Sam Shepard. You can always count on him. So this was Brad Pitt almost immune to bombs, I'd say, because he's got a few. Speaker 1 (27:31) Yeah. I don't know. We're going to find out this fall. Speaker 5 (27:34) Heart of the Beast Speaker 1 (27:34) time? Is that the dog movie? Speaker 2 (27:37) Are you familiar with Heart of the Beast? I am. I've been following the Brad Pitt media coverage. It's really, it's... Speaker 1 (27:43) He's off the wagon. Yeah, it's tough. That's a real... It's going to be interesting. Interesting timing on that Speaker 2 (27:48) announcement. Speaker 1 (27:49) Did Speaker 4 (27:49) he come forward to announce that? He did on a podcast, right? He talked about it on Speaker 2 (27:53) Peace for Esquire. It felt a little, I want to jump ahead of something that might come out. Let me plant my flag here now-ish. Could be. Speaker 4 (28:02) It's Speaker 2 (28:02) the theory. Heart of the Beast, will you see it? I'll definitely rent that because I love dogs. The Speaker 4 (28:07) Simmons Speaker 2 (28:08) family loves a dog's purpose. Speaker 1 (28:10) Do you worry about the dog's fate in a movie? Do you have to know that the dog's going to be okay? Speaker 2 (28:16) I'm better with it. My wife wants to know if the dog's going to die before she watches the movie. Yes, Speaker 5 (28:21) a Speaker 1 (28:21) thousand percent yes. Which must make watching any Speaker 5 (28:24) horror movie impossible because as soon as you see a pet walk across the screen in a horror movie, you're like, it's gone. It's over for this Speaker 2 (28:29) cat. I mean, where it gets crazy is Mallory not being able to see Obsession. Right, right. That's where... Pretty bad cat stuff in that, though. Speaker 1 (28:38) I totally forgotten about it. It's Speaker 2 (28:39) just a Speaker 1 (28:39) cat sandwich. I liked Obsession.