Old Movies vs. New Movies: How ‘Avengers: Endgame Encore’ Beat Brad Pitt, Robert Pattinson, and an Awesome Weekend Movie Lineup

The Big Picture

The episode explores the recent box office phenomenon where movie re-releases, such as Avengers: Endgame Encore, are outperforming new theatri

Key takeaways

• Avengers: Endgame Encore earned $26 million, beating out several new releases like Heart of the Beast.
• A growing trend shows that 17 of the top 200 highest-grossing films in the U.S. this year are re-releases.

Main topics

• Box Office Trends
• Star Wars Franchise News

Notable quotes

The dog performances are wonderful.

Conclusion

The episode highlights a shifting theatrical landscape where nostalgia

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:15) I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Speaker 1 (0:16) Amanda Dobbins. And this Speaker 3 (0:17) is the Big Picture Conversation show about old versus new. Today on the show, we are looking at a diverse and pretty darn good collection of movies that opened over the past week. Among them, the Brad Pitt vehicle, Heart of the Beast, the animated film, Forgotten Island, the Ethan Hawke survival thriller, The Weight, the terrific new documentary, The History of Concrete, and Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother, a ferocious and meditative new action drama starring Mahershala Ali. But... One movie overwhelmed them all this weekend, Avengers Endgame Encore in Infinity Vision. Amanda and I will talk about what, if anything, this means, what we think of all these movies, and about the surge in anniversary repertory screenings around the country and major theatrical chains. Later in the show, I'll be joined by one of my favorite filmmakers, John Wilson, whose first feature-length documentary, The History of Concrete, has been a little mini-sensation as it expands across the country. Wilson's remarkable TV series How To With John Wilson was on HBO for three seasons and blended man-on-the-street curiosity, observational verite, and a wry sense of humor to create something original, moving, and frequently funny. John is a very smart fellow in our conversation, touches on many aspects of how he does what he does. Stick around for that. But first, some movie news right after this. Speaker 3 (1:22) This episode is presented by State Farm. You know the feeling. Long day, good meal, you finally sit down, and now you're just staring at your screen. Slasher, rom-com, period drama, psychological thriller. But some decisions don't have to be that hard. State Farm is here to help. Like when you choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Bundling, just another way to save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. Okay, Dobbins. Speaker 1 (1:57) Hello. Speaker 3 (1:58) I have Star Wars. Speaker 1 (2:00) So what is Infinity Vision? Speaker 3 (2:03) Let's put a pin in Infinity Vision. However, we'll stay in the Disney Corporation. Speaker 1 (2:08) Okay. Speaker 3 (2:09) It was announced over the weekend that John Watts is going to direct a Star Wars film. There's going to be a new trilogy penned by Simon Kinberg. Speaker 1 (2:18) I hate it when people, I know it's an industry thing, just say written. Speaker 3 (2:22) You hate it when people say penned by. Yeah, Speaker 1 (2:24) yeah, yeah. It's from the trades, and I understand they have their own language. Delivered Speaker 3 (2:28) by the scribe. Right. Speaker 1 (2:29) Simon Kinberg. Just say written. Speaker 3 (2:31) He removed his quill from the quill holder. He dabbed it in some ink. Speaker 1 (2:36) Yeah. He Speaker 3 (2:37) penned the words, and thus it ever was. It's not Speaker 1 (2:41) because it's anachronistic. It's just because it sounds stupid. Okay. Speaker 3 (2:46) Kinberg is teaming up with John Watts. And this movie is coming after Starfighter. It sounds like it is maybe not connected to Starfighter and seems like it is in the aftermath of the Rey Skywalker trilogy. So Speaker 1 (3:01) Starfighter is not connected to the Skywalker saga. Speaker 3 (3:05) I don't know. Speaker 1 (3:06) You don't know? I don't know. What does Starfighter do? Speaker 3 (3:09) He fights stars. I think it's all right there. I don't know. Why are the wars in the stars? What if he Speaker 1 (3:15) was fighting with the stars? What if he's a star fighter? Speaker 3 (3:21) Well, I think it's like Firefighter. You know, like they're not fighting alongside the fire. They're fighting against the fire. Okay. Speaker 1 (3:27) It's Speaker 3 (3:28) not Firefighter. Speaker 1 (3:29) But how would I know that? Speaker 3 (3:30) I honestly don't know. We're going to have to wait to find out. I don't think those movies are related. I did just read also this morning that Sean Levy is coming over from Netflix to Disney to also be a producer at the studio. So that means that they're feeling very good about Starfighter. Speaker 1 (3:45) John Speaker 3 (3:45) Watts has directed five films. Speaker 1 (3:48) Yes. Can Speaker 3 (3:48) you name them? Speaker 1 (3:52) Wolves. Speaker 3 (3:52) Wolves. That's one. Speaker 1 (3:54) The three Spider-Man movies? Speaker 3 (3:57) Yes. Do you know their names? Speaker 1 (4:00) Spider-Man. No, don't tell me. Okay. Well, Homecoming. That's Speaker 3 (4:06) one. Speaker 1 (4:07) Spider-Man. What's the drone one? What's the drone one? I don't know that one. Speaker 3 (4:15) That one is Far From Home. Speaker 1 (4:17) Sure. And then Spider-Man. Speaker 1 (4:22) I don't. I saw it there. I watched some of it recently. No Way Speaker 3 (4:27) Home. Speaker 1 (4:28) No Way Home, sure. Which is a Speaker 3 (4:30) mega sensation. And then he did not return to the Spider-Man franchise. Do you know his first film, his indie feature? Speaker 1 (4:37) Not off the top of my head. The Kevin Speaker 3 (4:38) Bacon vehicle cop car. Speaker 1 (4:40) You know what? I've never seen that. Even though I am a Kevin Bacon enthusiast and defender. Speaker 3 (4:45) Pretty good movie. Watts, you know, Wolfs was terrible. So I'm a little confused about this. It Speaker 1 (4:51) was pretty Speaker 3 (4:51) bad. Speaker 1 (4:51) We can talk about why it was bad later on in this podcast. Yeah. It's time. Speaker 3 (4:57) The pit dip. Yeah, this wouldn't be my first choice. Okay. For a new Star Wars movie. All right. I hope it's good. I really hope it's good. John Watts. relatively uninspiring. Although No Way Home, in my opinion, is very fun. Speaker 1 (5:10) I am on record as saying that I prefer the three John Watts Spider-Man movies to this new one. Speaker 3 (5:17) But that's more about what they do Speaker 1 (5:18) with the Spider-Man character, you know, than rather. And that's part of, I think, the Marvel machine. He works well within the Marvel machine, but also that Spider-Man is just a good character and is better to me when he is a teenager. Speaker 3 (5:31) Yeah, I think all four of those movies have their ups and their downs. I Speaker 1 (5:35) mean, listen, I don't, you know, think they're like great cinema. Speaker 3 (5:38) No, they're not. They're all okay. They're all good. They're all good. That's my take. Speaker 1 (5:42) Okay, Lucas is telling us that he directed Clown. In 2014. Totally forgot about Clown. Thank you, Lucas. I don't think I've Speaker 3 (5:49) seen Clown. I haven't either. Is Clown a horror film? I think it is. I've never seen it, so I have no idea. Okay, thanks, Sharon. Speaker 1 (5:56) You have written here that Rey Skywalker is going to be featured? Speaker 3 (6:00) It sounds like it. Okay. That's the suggestion, Speaker 2 (6:02) is that Daisy Ridley will be participating in this. Speaker 3 (6:05) Now, I think that's a good way to think about this, too, which is like the alternative here is, you know, we're not getting Steven Soderbergh and Adam Driver's Ben Solo movie. Speaker 1 (6:15) Yeah. Speaker 3 (6:15) And we're not getting whatever the David Fincher pitch was. We're not getting, you know, the myriad... Speaker 1 (6:19) A Speaker 3 (6:19) number of filmmakers, you know, Patty Jenkins had a movie in development. James Mangold, I think, may still have a movie in development. Taika Waititi, no matter what you think about him, had a movie in development. A lot of filmmakers, Damon Lindelof and a number of other writers wrote a film that didn't go. Speaker 1 (6:33) These Speaker 3 (6:33) are the movies that it seems like are going. Speaker 1 (6:36) Yeah, which seems in keeping with the J.J. Abrams stick to the text, stick to the corporate mythology as well as Speaker 3 (6:44) the... The safe pair of hands, too. Yeah, the Skywalker mythology. Are you done with Skywalkers? Speaker 1 (6:50) And I'm not even done with Skywalkers in this conversation. Speaker 2 (6:54) Is that true? Speaker 1 (6:55) Yeah. Because when we get to a certain romantic comedy and fan fiction, I did some fan fiction research last night. So that's what I was doing instead of hearing about whatever the starfighter is up to. This episode is going to Speaker 3 (7:09) have some real arc for that reason. We'll probably end with that film. Speaker 2 (7:13) Speaking of... Speaker 3 (7:14) Spider Speaker 2 (7:15) -Man. Speaker 3 (7:15) Tom Holland, his long-awaited Fred Astaire biopic, added a couple of people to its cast. Sabrina Carpenter is joining. She will play Ginger Rogers. Seems like pretty good casting to me. Speaker 1 (7:23) Margaret Speaker 3 (7:24) Qualley will play Adele Astaire, who is Fred's older sister and his original dance partner. What do you know about Adele Astaire? Speaker 1 (7:30) Absolutely nothing. Me Speaker 3 (7:31) neither. You think this movie will be good? Speaker 1 (7:34) I am really excited that Tom Holland is going to be dancing again. Speaker 3 (7:37) Okay. Who's directing this movie? Speaker 1 (7:38) I don't remember. Speaker 3 (7:40) Is it Denis Villeneuve? I don't think this movie has a director. I hope it's someone good. Speaker 1 (7:46) Me too. Speaker 2 (7:47) Isn't it Paul King? Speaker 3 (7:48) Is that wrong? If that's right, that's promising, I would say, though I hated Wonka. I Speaker 2 (7:53) thought I remember. Speaker 3 (7:55) I thought I remember hearing that, but I don't know. Directed by Paul King. You are exactly Speaker 1 (8:00) right. With Amy Pascal producing. So those are some people I like. Speaker 3 (8:04) Yeah, sure. Paul King, absent the last Paddington film to make Wonka, that hurt. That hurt. Paddington and Peru, a step back from the first two Paddington films. Speaker 1 (8:15) But still pretty moving. Come on. At the end. Speaker 3 (8:18) Pretty moving? Speaker 1 (8:19) Yeah, when they're in the Orange Grove and he's like, I like it here, but I want to come home with you. Even though they've just like completely recast Sally Hawkins as Emily Mortimer and said nothing. Speaker 3 (8:30) Yeah, it does happen from time to time. Yeah. Amanda, where do you stand on Wonka? Speaker 1 (8:35) I cried. I don't know what Speaker 3 (8:37) to Speaker 1 (8:37) tell you. Like I cried when he started singing, you know, come with me, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, World of Imagination. And the scene with the giraffe was pretty cool. Speaker 2 (8:49) I totally agree. Yeah. Speaker 1 (8:51) I Speaker 2 (8:51) find this to be one of your stranger takes. I can't believe you hate it that much. Not indifferent, but hate. I really don't like it. Speaker 1 (8:58) Yeah, I really don't get it either. You could just be like, I didn't like it as much as the Paddington films. Speaker 3 (9:04) I mean, it's definitely not as good as Paddington 2. No, I just, I had a very specific set of ideas about what I think Willy Wonka should be. And I feel like... They were like, oh, well, Tim Burton went in that direction. So now we need to go in the far opposite direction, you know, and obviously be different from Gene Wilder and be very kind of sweet and colorful and cheery. But also, you know, Timmy dances in that one. Speaker 1 (9:26) I like it when the young men dance. Speaker 3 (9:28) Yeah. I don't know. Okay, Speaker 1 (9:30) that's fine. Speaker 3 (9:31) I think he's going to look back on that one with a little bit of regret. You see that the second one is like not really happening. It's completely backburnered. Because Speaker 1 (9:37) he's Speaker 3 (9:37) doing other. Speaker 1 (9:39) cool things. He's doing bro shit. Yeah. That seems fine. That's his phase of life. Speaker 3 (9:43) It is. It's mine too. Speaker 1 (9:44) Maybe like he'll get to a later phase of life and now he'll be like post Gene Wilder. Right. 75 year old Wonka. Dancing with a cane. Yeah. Daddy Speaker 3 (9:52) Wonka. Granddaddy Wonka. Speaker 1 (9:54) Let's do it. Speaker 3 (9:55) Dancing with a... Doesn't he already have a cane? Speaker 1 (9:57) Yeah, but in a different way. Speaker 3 (9:59) What's the way he has it now? How would you describe that? Speaker 1 (10:02) More of a prop. Less of a support system. Okay. Speaker 3 (10:05) All right. He kind of looks like a pimp, doesn't he? Yeah, a little bit. Willy Wonka with that top hat and purple overcoat. Speaker 1 (10:10) Mm-hmm. Speaker 3 (10:11) Think I could pull that off? Speaker 1 (10:12) No. Speaker 3 (10:13) Okay. Let's talk about the box office, okay? This is going to dovetail. My favorite topic. This is going to dovetail into what we're speaking about today. And Game Encore made $26 million. Okay. Let me tell you about Infinity Vision. Speaker 1 (10:26) Yeah. Speaker 3 (10:26) Felt nothing. Saw nothing. Nothing was different. I was sitting in the Dolby room. Love those seats. Thanks to them for making nice seats at the AMCs. Speaker 3 (10:37) looked and sounded the same. Speaker 1 (10:39) Okay. Speaker 3 (10:39) Pretty much. I'm sure if you put a side-by-side up of what it looked like when I saw it in a movie theater in 2019, Speaker 2 (10:44) I'd be like, oh, it looks a little more clear. I Speaker 3 (10:47) doubt it. A better image. Maybe the sound has improved a little bit, but it looked really the same. So this is a PLF scam, which is what we knew what it was when they announced it. So Speaker 1 (10:57) they Speaker 3 (10:57) charged Speaker 1 (10:57) you more so that they then made $26 million and beat out the others at the box office? Yes, Speaker 3 (11:01) it was effective. Resident Evil came in second at $23 million. Pretty good hold. Heart of the Beast made $20 million, Primetime made $19 million, and Forgotten Island was the disappointment of the weekend and only made $12 million. This is semi-notable to me. 17 of the 200 highest-grossing films in the U.S. this year are re-releases. So among them, the most successful of them are Cars, Top Gun, The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, Akira was recently re-released, The Fast and the Furious, The Transformers movie from 1986 got an anniversary screening, Kiki's Delivery Service, Shrek. Even Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2, The Secret of the Ooze, which I absolutely loved as a kid, went back into movie theaters this year for an anniversary screening. So this is more movies than last year, which had 15 films in the top 200. 2024 was 14. 2023 was 11. So we're seeing like an uptick in the number of anniversary screenings. So I guess I kind of want to have a conversation with you even before getting into Endgame and seeing it again. Like, is this a big deal? Is it circumstantial? Is it... indicate anything to you about what the appetites of moviegoers are and maybe what studios think they want and need? Speaker 1 (12:11) Well, I think it reflects the change in the way that people see movies for the positive. And it's another eventization of movies, right? And so in the same way that people are like, oh, I got to buy my tickets, you know, 40 weeks in advance for Oppenheimer or the Odyssey and 70 millimeter IMAX. I also need this movie that I love that I have this relationship at home is coming out and I need to get tickets like in the same way. So. Speaker 1 (12:42) You know, there have always been anniversary screenings. I guess they're more and they're more popular because people are used to coming to the movies as like appointment viewing as opposed to 25 years ago when you just like wander into the movie theater on a Friday night and you'd get dropped off at the mall and be like, oh, I guess I'll see this. Oh, I guess I'll see this. You know, so it's the same but different, I think. But it's a good sign for movies. It's that people are going. There are different ways that people are going to the movies, but they are going back to the movies. Yeah, Speaker 3 (13:13) I think that's right. I think it's that people enjoy this as an activity, right? It's still like a way to get out. And there's an interesting kind of paradox with this idea because there are more movies than ever to see. Like more movies are being released than were released 30 years ago. 30 years ago, you probably barely got to 200 movies being released at all. And now it's somewhere in the neighborhood of like 500 movies, just maybe not in as many theaters. And there's... A couple things that are interesting to me about this. One, I think next February or March, you're going to get what might become one of the biggest reissues ever because you're going to have 50 years of Star Wars, the first Star Wars film, A New Hope. And it sounds like maybe there's a chance that what they reissue is. a cleaned up restoration of the original version. Speaker 1 (13:56) Instead of all the new junky stuff. The Lucas Speaker 3 (13:59) CGI stuff. And we'll see what they end up putting out into the world. But I would like to see that. I haven't seen that in some time on a big screen. Speaker 1 (14:06) Until now, has the biggest re-release been the Star Wars re-release that happened in... Was that 30 years? Probably. But, Speaker 3 (14:15) you know, I was thinking about this this morning. I mean, like you just said, this has been happening since the beginning of movies. Yeah, yeah, Speaker 1 (14:20) yeah. Speaker 3 (14:20) You know, a movie would run and then three years later, especially when we didn't have home video or television. Right. They would just put a movie back in movie theaters and they would just be like, it's three years later. Go see Gone with the Wind again. And Gone with the Wind is a movie that has been reissued like many times over the years around anniversaries. The Wizard of Oz is similar. I think Bambi I saw in theaters because it was part of one of those anniversary Disney reissues where they did those all the time. So this is not new. And if you adjusted for inflation, I think a movie like Gone with the Wind would probably have racked up like the most amount of money. Speaker 1 (14:49) Right. Speaker 3 (14:50) I mean, that is why it Speaker 1 (14:51) has the box office like records that it does because it just went on and on and on and stayed in theaters. It's got 85 Speaker 3 (14:58) years of history and plays all the time. Speaker 3 (15:02) I think you're right. Maybe just from a pure dollars perspective, those Star Wars movies are probably number one. I Speaker 1 (15:07) just remember it as a huge event. And it felt different than the wandering to a movie theater. And it's like, oh, okay, this movie from Gone with the Wind is on again. It was like, I remember my parents taking me, like everyone having a real sense that something big was happening. And it was also tied in. in advance of the new films. Speaker 3 (15:31) Yes, there was new material in the movies themselves, and then they were leading up into the prequels, which was the most anticipated movie event probably of my lifetime. Speaker 2 (15:39) I Speaker 3 (15:40) guess Endgame is maybe the comparison, the Infinity War Endgame thing, but in terms of mass market movie going, I Speaker 2 (15:46) think Speaker 3 (15:46) those are probably the two most anticipated things in the last 40 years. You know, in LA, and this is true in New York, it's true in a couple of other cities, Chicago, like a couple of bigger cities, I can't speak for... smaller cities and towns around the country. But the repertory screening scene in the independent film screening rooms is also like incredible right now. It's like buzzing. Just this weekend, I went through the calendars. And these are the things you could have done if you lived in LA. You could have seen Halloween at the Academy Museum with a Q &A with Jamie Lee Curtis and John Carpenter. You could have seen JFK on 35mm at the New Beverly. You could have seen Vim Vendors as the end of violence at Braindead. You could have seen... Over a dozen films for Beyond Fest at all of the American Cinematheque screenings, including multiple M. Night Shyamalan Q &As and tributes. You could have seen Dead Calm on 35 in tribute to Sam Neill at Vidiot's. every night there's something to do. And September and October, especially with the horror mania in this town, there's always so much to go see. So you've got all that stuff happening with these new movies that I mentioned that are mostly playing in AMC and Regal and Cinemark and the main chains. Then you've got all this rep stuff. And so I do think some of it is just like that hangover from the cinephilia that grew during COVID. Yeah. And some of it is also, I think about this personally, like I do hunt for the kids' movies that are old. that I can take my daughter to go see that is like, might be a 40-year-old movie. She didn't want to go see Transformers, the movie, Speaker 2 (17:08) notably. Speaker 3 (17:10) But still, it's not uncommon for us to just be like, yeah, we're going to see Kiki. Studio Ghibli has been reissuing their movies a lot recently. And those are a hit with kids and families all the time. So this is like, I don't know if it's a long-term... strain of the business, but it almost feels like just like money on the floor that the studios can just pick up and take. And we're not talking about $300 million here, but it's like a million, three million, six million for these movies being reissued over a few week period of time. Speaker 1 (17:36) And certainly also money for the theaters, if they can, you know, make it work. The thing about the Studio Ghibli screenings is that they were all like at kid friendly times. And so, and we went to Totoro like a Wednesday afternoon. And packed with young people. So but that's not normally a time when they would be showing as many movies so they can they can max out their theater for different audiences, which, again, is sort of like this, you know, the hyper niche sensation that you keep talking about, that it is coming for movies and that there are ways for these businesses to adjust to them. Speaker 3 (18:11) Yeah. Speaker 1 (18:12) So it's positive. It Speaker 3 (18:15) is positive. It does feel like adaptation to the moment. And like you said, filling in at 11 a.m. screening time, which otherwise might not draw as big a crowd for Heart of the Beast. Although maybe it would for the older folks. Yeah, we can get to that. Should I tell you about Endgame Encore? Speaker 1 (18:31) Sure, if you must. I had a good time. You Speaker 3 (18:34) know, I really like that movie. I think it's really fun. It's not, for the longest time, I was like Endgame superior to Infinity War. Speaker 1 (18:42) And now you don't think that's the case? Well, now that I've seen Endgame Speaker 3 (18:45) like five times, I'm like, first two thirds of this movie, you Speaker 1 (18:48) know. They have some flaws. It's Kat being sad. Speaker 3 (18:51) It's very morose, the first hour. You know, it's really about all of them coming to terms with their own failure, which is a theme that I like in some films, but maybe not a superhero extravaganza. Or Speaker 1 (19:02) maybe not for like two hours. Speaker 3 (19:04) Yeah, it's about an hour. And then Paul Rudd comes back, right? Ant-Man comes out of the van. Speaker 1 (19:09) Yeah. And Speaker 3 (19:10) he returns and he tells them about time travel and they figure out the time heist. And then you get more or less an hour of time heist of them trying to figure out how to make time travel work and then eventually traveling back in time. And the heist is fun. It's not great, but it's fun. Yeah. And then the final third, I think for comic book movie fans, feels like a big summation of the thing that we were watching and enjoying for 15 years. And it was like, they did it. It was a big spectacle and it still really works well. Speaker 1 (19:35) Did you stand up and cheer when all the women lined up together? Speaker 3 (19:38) I did. I shed a tear. Speaker 1 (19:41) You did? I Speaker 3 (19:41) did. And then I put that tear in a jar. And then I sent that jar to the White House. And I said, believe women, please. How many people were in Speaker 1 (19:49) your screening? You were at like a 10 a.m. on a Friday? Speaker 3 (19:52) I went to an 11 a.m. on a Friday. And it was sold out. It was sold out. And I will say, you know, the cap catches the hammer moment, which was so beloved when the movie first came out. Kind of tepid applause. Like, people felt like they had to applaud. It was not the same rapturous experience that we had. Can I just Speaker 1 (20:10) ask you, what is the demo of 11 on a Friday morning at the Burbank AMC? There's a lot Speaker 3 (20:17) of unemployed losers, you know? Movie nerd heaven. A lot Speaker 1 (20:20) of Speaker 3 (20:20) virgins. Okay. No, honestly, like a lot of the screenings I go to, a lot of, like, dates, a lot of, like... you know, small groups of friends together. It was younger. I was one of the older people in the screening room. And I think also this movie being reissued, it does something that a lot of movies that have been reissued over the years does, which is it's like nostalgia for your youth moment. If you were 14 when this movie came out and you're 21 now, you can think back on like this being a very formative movie going experience for you. And Speaker 1 (20:47) you can Speaker 3 (20:47) also Speaker 1 (20:47) drive yourself. Speaker 3 (20:48) You can drive yourself. You're all grown up. Yeah. You have your college degree. Congratulations. Speaker 3 (20:53) The movie is also, in addition to the Infinity Vision thing, there's additional content in the film that ostensibly helps people out before they go to see Avengers Doomsday. Now, the trailer for Avengers Doomsday played before the movie. Speaker 2 (21:08) And Speaker 3 (21:09) then we got a one-minute introduction to the film from Chris Evans and Robert Downey Jr. that I would say is one of the saddest things I've ever seen in a movie. Just two men who are just like, I just really wanted the money. And so I've decided to do this. Speaker 3 (21:24) The movie itself, it... Well, one guy Speaker 1 (21:26) who wanted the money and one guy who just can't make anything else work. Speaker 3 (21:32) In RDJ? Or Chris Evans? Yeah. Speaker 3 (21:38) I think if he had picked a few better projects, we'd be in a different spot. I just think he really, he wrong-footed a couple times, and now he's back in the cap uniform. But again, like, I was watching the movie, and I was like, this guy just is Captain America. This is just a, he's just a terrific Captain America. Like, I don't even care about Captain America. He was never one of my characters. It never mattered to me. But he really, those two guys hold those movies together, which is why it's kind of sad, because when you get to the end of that movie, you're like, they did right by these characters. The ending of the movie, whether you like comic book movies or not, you can be like, well, they handled Cap really well. They handled Iron Man really well. These chapters are closed. Yeah. Let's go forward. Okay. And then they're like, wait a minute. Hold on. Speaker 1 (22:14) Well, in the case of RDJ, Speaker 3 (22:15) do Speaker 1 (22:16) you think that like Dr. Doom is going to become, is that who he's being? Yeah. Is he going to be Iron Man at some point? Well, Speaker 3 (22:23) I'll tell you about the new stuff. You want to hear about the new stuff? You don't, but I'm going to tell you anyway, because the listeners at home want to hear about it. Do they? They definitely do. Doomsday is going to be fucking huge. Speaker 1 (22:35) I know that. Huge. I know that. If you didn't Speaker 3 (22:36) think so, $26 million for this movie that just came out seven years ago that is on Disney Plus right now that everyone has seen tells you how big that movie is going to be. The four new things that they added to the movie, all of which arrive at the end of the movie, really undo the Cap and Iron Man conclusions. Speaker 1 (22:57) So lame. Speaker 3 (22:58) So... If you don't want to hear what those four things were in this screening, I think this movie is going to be on Disney Plus in a few weeks so that people can prepare. So Speaker 1 (23:06) you mean this version? This version of the movie, yeah. You know, and I couldn't log the movie separately Speaker 3 (23:10) on Letterboxd, which I thought was an interesting choice because it's a different movie. The movie literally ends differently, which is, as you may recall or not, Cap goes back in time to go be with Peggy. Speaker 1 (23:20) Yeah, and they dance. And they dance. And Speaker 3 (23:22) it's Speaker 1 (23:22) very nice. Speaker 3 (23:22) And at the end of this film, their dance is interrupted by someone at the door. Someone rings the doorbell. Speaker 1 (23:28) And Speaker 3 (23:29) Cap hides. Peggy answers the door. Yes. Because he doesn't want to be discovered because he's in the wrong timeline. Sure. And it's Loki. Tom Hiddleston's Loki. Speaker 3 (23:40) And Loki's there and Peggy says, can I help you? And he says, no, but I can help you. And then cut. Speaker 1 (23:48) Okay. And Speaker 3 (23:49) we indicate, I think that suggests that there's some issue with the branching timelines from all the time travel. How Speaker 1 (23:56) many seasons of Loki did they make? Speaker 3 (23:58) I think only two. Okay. But at the end of season two, he sacrifices himself. So it's like, which Loki even is this? That Loki's dead. Speaker 1 (24:06) Right. He sacrifices himself to align the timelines? Speaker 3 (24:10) That sounds right. Speaker 1 (24:12) Because that's what they do in that world with all the retro TVs up on the screen is that they enforce the timelines, right? Speaker 3 (24:21) That's exactly right. The TVA. Sure. And the third... mid-credit sequence is actually set in the TVA. Speaker 2 (24:30) Owen Wilson Speaker 3 (24:30) is there. Kiwi Kwan is there. And we learn that the timelines are all at war with each other and they're collapsing. So we see two timelines like headed straight for each other. One of them is like Earth 1000. I've never heard of it. The other one is the X-Men Earth timeline from the Fox films. So obviously we know they're going to play a part in Doomsday. The second post-credit sequence features Mark Ruffalo. who has locked himself in some sort of underground prison after the events, I guess, of the previous Spider-Man film to keep Hulk at bay. Yes. And he gets a visitor. We only hear the visitor's voice from offscreen. It's very clearly Doctor Doom. Speaker 1 (25:07) Okay. Doctor Speaker 3 (25:08) Doom has come to unleash Hulk or something. Maybe he takes his powers from Hulk. We don't know. And then we see Mark Ruffalo disappears, and then there's just a sigil engraved on the floor in green. Glowing Light, Doctor Doom's sigil. That happened. Okay. And then you don't know this and you don't care, but at the end of the original Endgame... When we get to the absolute end credits, all you can hear is Tony forging something in metal. And that's meant to be the sound of him making the Iron Man mask for the first time. Speaker 1 (25:41) Okay. And Speaker 3 (25:42) in this one, it's Dr. Doom forging his presumably his mask in metal. Speaker 1 (25:47) Okay. And Speaker 3 (25:48) those are the four new things. Speaker 1 (25:49) So are you. I understand how they've undone some of the cap stuff. How did they undo Iron Man according to what you've just told me? I think what Speaker 3 (25:58) they're going to do is they're going to show us Robert Downey Jr. as multiple different characters throughout different timelines. Okay. So he is Tony Stark in one timeline. He becomes Victor Von Doom in one timeline. I think if they're feeling really antic, he'll be the Hulk. He'll be Captain America. He'll be Black Widow. He'll be, you know, like I think if they wanted to have fun with it and, you know, those Russo brothers, they love to have fun. They do. You know, they have their roots in... sketch comedy and shows like Community. So, I... Speaker 1 (26:26) Lights herself on fire. Speaker 3 (26:30) I... Speaker 1 (26:33) Okay. Are you Speaker 3 (26:35) excited? No, no. No, Speaker 1 (26:36) you're sad? Well, the cat thing is one of the best things they've ever done. Speaker 3 (26:40) I agree. I really, I enjoyed it. Old Speaker 1 (26:42) Chris Speaker 3 (26:42) Evans sitting on the bench and he's like, no, I don't think I will. And that became a great meme. And that whole thing is, that's just, to me, that's good popcorn movie stuff. They just like really ended this popcorn movie really, really well seven years ago. It'd be like if we were like, let's go back to the end of Back to the Future and change it. So that the events of Back to the Future 2 don't happen in the same way. Speaker 1 (27:01) I agree with you. But I've felt that way since the beginning of this. Yeah. They also do all this stuff with how he has a cute butt in it, right? And then like one of the last shots is his like old cute butt, right? Speaker 3 (27:15) No? Speaker 1 (27:15) Or is it? I Speaker 3 (27:16) don't know if we see his old cute butt. Oh, okay. But there's a lot about Steve Rod. That's America's ass. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Speaker 1 (27:22) Yeah. Speaker 3 (27:24) The new, I mean, the reason they did this clearly is because, like, we just haven't seen Doctor Doom in any movies and there's no anticipation for Doctor Doom. Like, we don't, we saw him for like one second, I guess, at the end of, was it New Avengers or Fantastic Four? It must have been Fantastic Four. I thought he should have just been a part of Fantastic Four. It probably would have gotten people more psyched about all this stuff, but seems to have not mattered. Everyone's very excited and there was cheering and you had the thing where you had people walking out of the movie when the end credits, when the credits hit and then standing at the entrance because they didn't realize. there was a bunch of new stuff in it. So then you had like big crowds of people just standing there, standing through the entire credits because it's been a little bit unclear like whether there is or is not new material in the movie. Speaker 1 (28:05) As someone who has left before the end credits several times just because I'm not schooled Speaker 3 (28:12) in Speaker 1 (28:12) this. Well, sure. But that is not a Marvel movie. So, you know. Speaker 3 (28:16) Yeah, Speaker 1 (28:18) Ryan Coogler is more than a Marvel filmmaker. Okay. Where do you learn Speaker 3 (28:21) the trick from, you know? Speaker 1 (28:23) Yeah, but you would think that the people who bought the ticket to the screening of the re-release of Infinity, Endgame, whatever. Yes. would know to stay through the end credits. Endgame. Speaker 3 (28:36) Encore. Speaker 1 (28:37) Sure. Infinity. They Speaker 3 (28:39) didn't stay. Some of them stayed. Speaker 1 (28:42) Okay. Speaker 3 (28:43) And it was, you know, I had a hot ticket immediately afterwards to join you to see a film. Sure, yeah. And I was 10 minutes late to that film because I stayed through everything. You were Speaker 1 (28:52) honestly like 15 minutes Speaker 3 (28:53) late. Speaker 1 (28:53) Was I? Okay. Yeah, but it's fine. You know, you saw most of the important stuff. Speaker 3 (28:57) Oh, Speaker 1 (28:58) I Speaker 3 (28:58) was. I watched the first five minutes when I got there in the wings, so you just didn't see me. Oh, okay, got it. That was respectful of you. It Speaker 1 (29:04) was probably about ten Speaker 3 (29:04) minutes. It was also very dark and I couldn't see at the very beginning of the film. We'll get there. Yeah. What takeaways do I have from this? Speaker 1 (29:16) Your mark for this stuff, even though you don't like it, and many people will be too, and thus it will be very successful. Speaker 3 (29:24) Well, I wouldn't say I really cared about any of the changes. I'm not like, well, this changes everything. I can't wait. Yeah. You know? I've obviously already been weighed down on the Marvel stuff, and this feels like them kind of just trying to hammer something in between before having to tell this big story. Seeing the Doomsday trailer on the big screen, I was like, I don't think this looks that great. It just doesn't seem that appealing to me. But I know a lot of people feel differently, and a lot of people are excited about it. Speaker 3 (29:52) I don't know. The whole enterprise is a little bit sweaty, but there's obviously still an audience for it. And I'm not sure. Speaker 3 (30:00) I guess this is something that can probably continue to happen for all franchises if there's an anticipated movie coming up. You know, they've been reissuing the Lord of the Rings films pretty frequently. There's a new Lord of the Rings movie next year. And we have a similar situation to what we have this year. Did you know this? I was looking at this last night. So, you know, we have Dune Part 3 and Doomsday on the same day. And you've been mystified by that. Next year, we have Avengers Secret Wars and the Lord of the Rings The Hunt for Gollum on the same day. Speaker 1 (30:29) I truly don't understand. Speaker 3 (30:31) You know what else is on that day? Tell me. The Housemaid's Secret. The sequel to The Housemaid's Secret. Well, that is at least counter-programming. And it Speaker 1 (30:36) doesn't rely on a premium format for its box office. Because we don't care. We just want to get drunk and see Kiki get after it. Speaker 3 (30:45) Some of us do. That just seems strange. But you know what? If it works this year... I'll tell you what. If it doesn't work this year, if Dune gets its doors blown off or Doomsday underperforms, something's going to move. Speaker 1 (30:56) Are they just trying to do Barbenheimer? Is that what it is? I don't... Explain Speaker 3 (31:02) it to me. The Speaker 1 (31:03) housemaids hunt Speaker 3 (31:03) for Gollum, colon Secret Wars. That's what we're calling the day. Okay. Speaker 1 (31:06) But is that the strategy? Do you think the housemaid Speaker 3 (31:08) and Gollum would have chemistry? Speaker 1 (31:11) The housemaid doesn't have... She has fake chemistry, right? So, yes, because that's her job. Her job is to show up and have chemistry with anyone and get Gollum out of there, you know? Do Speaker 3 (31:24) you think there will be a sex scene with Gollum in The Hunt for Gollum? Who's playing Gollum this time? Are there any other... Is it Sidney Sweeney? Speaker 1 (31:32) Are there any other Gollums? Speaker 3 (31:35) I think he's just one. He stands alone. He's like Madonna. Speaker 3 (31:39) On Gollum. But Speaker 1 (31:40) Madonna had plenty of sex. Speaker 3 (31:42) Well, we don't know about Gollum's sex life. That's not exploring the text. Yeah,