The Beauty Brains

The Beauty Brains

The episode begins with a personal update from Valerie regarding her recent basal cell carcinoma removal, transitioning into a discussion about the

Key takeaways

• Kérastase Thermique can be substituted with Garnier Fructis Style Smooth Blow-Dry Anti-Frizz Cream due to similar silicone and starch profiles.
• AI lacks the ability to perceive sensory nuances like smell and touch, which are vital for traditional skincare wisdom.

Main topics

• AI in skincare
• Kérastase vs Garnier comparison

Notable quotes

AI is trained on what is published on the internet... and that stuff is not necessarily the same stuff that is intercompany knowledge.

Conclusion

Listeners gain scientific perspective on ingredient efficacy and how t

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) Hi, I'm Perry and you're listening to the Beauty Brain. Speaker 3 (0:13) Welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetic industry. This is episode 433. I'm your host, Perry Romanowski, and with me today is Valerie George. Hello, Valerie. Hi, Perry. Valerie, we got a big show today. On today's show, we're covering questions like, does Kerastos Thermique heat-protected work? What do we think of the Labo Hair Roll-On Serum? Do oils and body washes actually help with moisturization? Do derivatives of actives show good results? And is the Anua Azelaic Acid just clever to marking, or is it actually a working product? First, some of that chitchat. Valerie, it seems like you've got a little bandage on there. Well, Speaker 1 (1:02) it's not little. I have three-inch stitches on my cheek, kind of towards my ear. And I had my basal cell carcinoma removed and stitches were bigger than I thought they would be. Speaker 3 (1:16) Oh, yeah. So, you know, they're not very noticeable, at least on camera here. Well, Speaker 1 (1:23) it's covered up. But the challenge is they had to actually make the stitches bigger because the shape of the carcinoma was kind of round and extended out. And he wanted to do the stitches. you know, perpendicular to the ground. So it didn't cut under the front of my eye. And in order to do that, he said, usually the skin just kind of closes, especially if it's on like older people who have looser, looser skin. And he said, but your skin's very taut. And so he had to make the incision a lot bigger due to the shape to get it to close in the direction he wanted. But, uh, I think it was, you know, the actual like carcinoma was a nickel sized and, um, And they had to, you know, go a little bigger than that to make sure they got everything. Speaker 3 (2:10) You know, I have to say, hearing your story, now it makes me look at my skin differently. So every little spot, you're like, oh, is that one? It kind of makes you unnerved, huh? Speaker 1 (2:21) Well, when's the last time you've had a skin check? Speaker 3 (2:23) I went to one last year. Speaker 1 (2:25) Did they have any spots? Like, oh, hey, we'll watch that spot? Or you were good? Speaker 3 (2:29) No, nothing. Although, the way these dermatologists do it, I mean, he scanned me pretty quick. I'm like, really? That's all you do? Yeah, Speaker 1 (2:38) they're very fast. And my dermatologist always seemed to remember, oh, that guy. Yeah, that one looks like our little fried egg friend. And she knew, but I'd gone to her for like, I don't know, 15 years. But new guy, he scanned pretty quick. And I showed him my spots of concern and he agreed. So you got to check yourself in addition to being checked. Speaker 3 (3:00) Yeah. Do you think he would have missed it though, if you didn't tell him? Speaker 1 (3:03) Not the one on the cheek, I don't think. Speaker 3 (3:06) Okay. Yeah. Speaker 1 (3:07) That Speaker 3 (3:07) kind of reminds me of like a dentist, though. You ever go to a new dentist? So you go to a dentist for years and you never have any cavity. Then you go to a new dentist and then you find all these cavities. I'm like, really? Speaker 1 (3:19) Yeah, all the things wrong. Yeah, but one interesting fact I learned having had a baby last year is that pregnant women are more... predisposed to cavities, like on the surface of the teeth. Yeah, that's what my dentist told me. But they were able to just kind of file away some stuff. I didn't have to have like a whole lot of work done. Speaker 3 (3:40) Well, I'm fortunate I haven't had cavities in years, but maybe as you get older that you just don't get them. Speaker 1 (3:46) I've actually never had an adult cavity. I think once as a child, I had a cavity. Speaker 3 (3:51) And I Speaker 1 (3:52) would be, I don't remember. I would have lost it in a baby tooth. Speaker 3 (3:56) Yeah, I had like none. And then I went to a new dentist. He's like, oh, you got eight. And I'm like, it seems a little suspicious that they would have missed all those years. Speaker 1 (4:05) I'd get a second opinion for sure. Speaker 3 (4:08) Yeah. All right, Valerie, shall we move on to beauty news? Speaker 3 (4:17) Valerie, you know how I'm very interested in the AI stuff. Speaker 1 (4:22) And I'm the opposite of interested in AI. Speaker 3 (4:25) Yeah. Speaker 1 (4:26) We complement each other. The yin and the yang of AI. I'm IA, you're AI. Speaker 3 (4:31) I will say that I'm a bit of an AI skeptic, though. I can appreciate some of the tools and using it for creating, but I can also appreciate the problems with it. And I do think that it certainly has the potential and... probably likely will lead to a lot of unemployment because they're just jobs you won't need anymore. Speaker 1 (4:53) I feel like when I, Butch or Frank, we didn't know who, once ate an entire bottle of vitamin E. They're very tall dogs, so they jumped up on the counter and took it and ate the whole thing. And we weren't sure who ate it, Butch or Frank. And so we called Animal Poison Control and... Mr. Cosmetic Chemist was like, that voice you're talking to is a bot. And I was like, no, it's just a really, you know, mellow, low level guy. And he was like, no, he's definitely a bot. And he would be like, say this, say that. And I, sure enough, I'm pretty sure it was a bot. And Mr. Cosmetic Chemist was like, ask him if he's a bot. And I'm like, I'm not going to ask him if he's a bot. And anyway, nonetheless, I am 100 % sure it was a bot. And I think, Yeah, in some instances, careers will be displaced by AI, but I don't necessarily think in the cosmetics industry. And if you're interested, by the way, it wasn't Frank that ate the vitamin E. Basically, this bot told me if Butch ate it, he's fine because he's huge. If Frank ate it, it could shut his kidneys down. And so we had to take Frank to go get his kidneys or his stomach pumped. And turns out Butch is the one who ate it. But anyway, poor Frank. But back to AI. Speaker 3 (6:14) Yeah, okay. Well, I saw this article published in Nature where some researchers looked at how people in Morocco traditionally use olive oil for skincare. And traditionally, grandmas have taught their kids how to use it. And so in that way, people learn by touching the skin, smelling the oil, seeing what it does for your own skin. So it's not something that you can read about in a book. But these researchers wanted to say, oh, how would AI chatbots be for giving skincare advice that's traditional advice like this? And so first they asked four different LLMs, and they gave it barely any details. Then they asked again with more and more details. And what they found was that the more details they gave the AI, its answers got better and it sounded more like it understood the culture. But even the best AI still couldn't answer. the kinds of things that a grandma can do where you can actually touch the kid's skin, you can smell if the oil is fresh, and, you know, remember, like, the last time we used this on your cheeks, and that helped, and so some individual customized stuff. So the AI can only kind of work with words and pictures, but it can't really smell anything or touch anything, and so no matter how much information you give this, AIs and LLMs are always going to be lacking, at least in that one. And until we figure out a way that we can get these AIs to smell and touch things, I think, you know, we're still going to need grandmas and their advice. Speaker 1 (7:45) It's interesting because I think a lot of people have egos about their ability to do things that perhaps AI can't. But I will say that on the formulation side. There are a lot of aspects to formulation or how things work or how clinical studies are designed that AI just can't tell. And I can't tell you how many times, oh, I put the formulation we paid you to do into AI or I just made this eye cream with AI. It's missing a preservative or they just don't understand the nuance of using certain ingredients. And sure, those are things that I could learn. But how is I going to get the information? A lot of this stuff I just think is trade secret or things that you learn on the job or from experience like, oh, you don't want to do that because in production this could happen. And I don't think I can put that information together. It's pretty black or white. Speaker 3 (8:39) Right. And also, at least as far as ingredients go, AI is trained on. what is published on the internet. And that stuff is not necessarily the same stuff that's intercompany knowledge about ingredients and formulas. What it more is, is the sort of marketing information that raw material suppliers are going to put out and overhype. And so AI is trained on all this marketing information about ingredients. And so when you talk to it and ask it questions about the effectiveness of ingredients, they are going to way overplay what these ingredients can actually do, in my opinion. Speaker 1 (9:18) Exactly. Speaker 3 (9:19) Hey, Valerie, I did, you know what? I did this experiment with AI, and you know you can talk to ChatGPT. I Speaker 1 (9:26) didn't know that. Speaker 3 (9:27) Just put a little button there, and there you go. Hey, ChatGPT. Speaker 2 (9:31) Hey, good to hear from you. What's up? Speaker 3 (9:34) Yeah, did you hear her? Speaker 1 (9:35) Yeah. Yeah, Speaker 2 (9:37) I hear you just fine. What's on your mind? Speaker 1 (9:39) Did you pick her voice? Speaker 3 (9:42) There's like five different voices, but I want to give you a demonstration of the knowledge of AI. So, hey, ChatGPT, do you know the ingredient peppermint oil? Speaker 2 (9:54) Yes, absolutely. Peppermint oil is a... volatile essential oil distilled from the peppermint plant. Okay, great, great. Yeah, Speaker 3 (10:03) that's great. Can you just tell me how many E's are in the word peppermint oil? Speaker 2 (10:09) Sure. In peppermint oil, E shows up three times. Two in peppermint and one in oil. Speaker 3 (10:16) Three times. So, wait, how do you spell