EP.280 - MEERA SYAL

THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST

Adam Buxton interviews Dame Meera Syal about her new memoir 'Vigilante,' reflecting on growing up as one of the only South Asian families in a 1960s Midlands village, navigating colonialism and

Key takeaways

• Meera Syal structured her memoir 'Vigilante' around phrases from her aunties that shaped her womanhood, rather than using a linear timeline.
• Growing up in Essington during the 1960s, Syal experienced racial tension and hypervigilance following Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech but found creative freedom in feeling like an outsider.
• Syal received an MBE in 1997, a decision complicated by her father's trauma from the 1947 Partition of India, though she ultimately viewed it as validation of her family's journey.
• The title of 'Goodness Gracious Me' was reclaimed from a problematic Peter Sellers comedy song about an Indian doctor, reflecting Syal's approach to satirizing both British and South Asian cultures.
• Syal criticized The Simpsons for canceling the Apu character instead of recasting him with a South Asian actor, emphasizing that marginalized communities should hold the power to punch at their own stereotypes.

Main topics

• Memoir writing and structure
• Growing up South Asian in 1960s Britain
• Colonialism and British honors/awards

Notable quotes

"I think that's the benefit of... When you've got a writer that's writing from felt experience and truth rather than assumed observation, I think that makes a world of difference."

Conclusion

The episode offers a rich blend of personal history, cultural critique

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) I added one more podcast Speaker 2 (0:02) to the giant podcast bin. Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening. I took my microphone and found some human folk. Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke. Speaker 2 (0:19) My name is Adam Buxton, I'm a man I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan Speaker 3 (0:31) Hey! Hey, how you doing, podcats? It's Adam Buxton here. I'm walking through a Norfolk field. on a warm blustery day in late September 2026. Trotting along beside me is Rosie Buxton, my best dog friend. She's a whippet poodle cross. How are you feeling about this walk, dog legs? I have been more excited. Speaker 2 (0:59) Yeah, you were looking pretty comfortable on the kitchen floor there. Speaker 3 (1:02) But it's nice to get out, take advantage of the sunshine while we've got it. Before you know it, we're going to be plunged back into wintry darkness, Rosie. Speaker 2 (1:11) You mean extended kitchen sofa time? Oh, that sounds terrible. Speaker 3 (1:16) Yeah, OK. Anyway, how are you doing, podcats? I hope you've been keeping well since the last podcast I put out back in July. Speaker 3 (1:25) Hope Ed Sheeran and the AI apocalypse haven't put too much of a damper on the last few weeks for you. Feels like I've had quite a busy summer. Although recently I've mainly been clearing out and repainting sheds. And listening to a lot of audiobooks in the process. Quite nice. Maybe I'll mention a few of them at the end of the podcast, in case you're interested. I have also been recording new conversations for the podcast and adding some golden bonus nuggets to the Adam Buxton Podcast Patreon page. Currently, if you visit the Patreon page, you will find... An episode with Louis Theroux, talking about his favourite podcasts and some recent horror films, before I ran a few ideas for new podcast formats by him, most of which he poo-pooed. There is also a previously unheard conversation with writer Patrick Radden Keefe on the Patreon page, talking about the year he spent with Anthony Bourdain, his investigation into Trump's alleged N-word tape, and his big issue with Instagram's algorithm and Mark Wahlberg. And just last week, we added a new conversation with Jamie Dimitriou. Well, I say new, strictly speaking. It's another older conversation that had slipped through the cracks, but it's a good one. Very enjoyable, funny time capsule of waffle, recorded in 2017, back before Staff Let's Flats blew up. And Jamie talks about the character that inspired that show, as well as appearing in Fleabag. And in the Q &As on the Patreon page, I have... recently answered questions like, what were you doing outside a Waitrose in Ashford in April 2023? I revealed my deepest regret and I told my Nevermind the Buzzcocks pee-pee story. And myself and Diggory recorded a new episode last week as well. That should be out Speaker 2 (3:24) in just over a week. Speaker 3 (3:27) And you can hear all of that by signing up to the Patreon using the link in the description. That's where you'll also find the address to submit questions, contributions, stories, voice notes, etc. for the Q &A episodes, which I'm really enjoying. I hope you are too, if you have been listening. OK, right now, let me tell you a bit about podcast number 280, which features a rambly conversation. with British comedian, writer, playwright, singer, journalist, producer and actor Dame Meera Sayal. Meera facts. Born in Wolverhampton in 1961, Meera grew up in the small English mining village of Essington, northeast of Birmingham, where her Hindu father and Sikh mother had settled in England after leaving New Delhi, India in 1959. At school, Meera was one of only three South Asian pupils among 400, and she grew up aware of the atmosphere of racial tension articulated by local Conservative MP Enoch Powell in his infamous 1968 Rivers of Blood speech, delivered just a few miles away in Birmingham. After studying English and Drama at Manchester University, she graduated with a double first, let me tell you, Meera's performing career moved to the next level after her award-winning 1983 one-woman student show, One of Us, which earned her an Equity Card and led to her professional stage debut at London's Royal Court Theatre. By 1987, Meera could be seen in the feature film Sammy and Rosie Get Laid, directed by Stephen Frears. and in the BAFTA-winning ITV series The Little Princess. Her TV career continued to flourish in the 1990s with roles in BBC drama series that included Kinsey, Holding On and In Deep, and the comedy series Keeping Mum, as well as being part of the cast of the sketch show The Real McCoy. In addition to acting, Meera was writing. She co-wrote the screenplay for the film Bargy on the Beach, released in 1993. the feature debut of Bend It Like Beckham director Gurinder Chadha. And in 1996, her debut novel, Anita and Me, was published to great acclaim, going on to become a recommended set text on the UK school curriculum. Still waiting to hear if that's going to happen with Ramble Book. I think it is. In the following year, 1997, Meera's contributions across literature, drama and comedy were recognised with an MBE in the Queen's A Lara Lara New Year's Honours List of Blinded Data. But it was in 1998 that Meera broke through to an even wider television audience as co-creator and star of the seminal BBC sketch show Goodness Gracious Me. alongside Kulvinder Gheer, Nina Wadia, Dave Lamb, and future guest on this podcast and Meera's husband, they married in 2005, Sanjeev Bhaskar. From 2001 to 2006, Meera appeared as unfiltered grandmother Umi Kumar in comedy talk show The Kumars at No. 42. All the while, she'd continued writing. Her novel, Life Isn't All Ha Ha He He, was published in 1999, and in 2002, Mira wrote the book to the West End musical Bombay Dreams. Novel number three, The House of Hidden Mothers, she's under the stairs, was published in 2015, the same year that Mira was awarded the CBE, Alara. On Monday, the 28th of September, tomorrow as I speak, Mira is on stage in Birmingham for the first night of a speaking tour. in support of her new memoir, Vigilante. And on that tour, she's also visiting Nottingham, Newcastle, London, Bristol, Manchester and Edinburgh. You'll find a link for dates and tickets in the show notes of this episode. My conversation with Mira was recorded in London towards the end of May this year, 2026, a couple of days into the first of the five heat waves that we experienced over the next few months. And we talked about... The agonising process of memoir writing. What it was like to grow up as part of the only Brown family in a 1960s Midlands village. What the British Empire's legacy of colonialism meant to Meera's family, and then to her when she was handed some of the Empire's top honours. It was earlier this year, in fact, that Meera was made a Dame Commander of the Order of the British Empire. It's the DBE for services to literature, drama and charity. We also talked about the problematic Peter Sellers song that gave Goodness Gracious Me its title, what the Simpsons should have done about our poo, and what the death of Mira's mother taught her about mortality. But we began, as I sometimes do, with the recordings by asking if there was anything that Mira didn't want to talk about, and also testing my mic levels with the breakfast question, all of which... It tends to get cut out of most episodes, but this time we left it in because it led to us talking about the episode of the Great British Bake Off that I appeared on with Mira, and which was broadcast in early 2025. I'll be back at the end for a bit more waffle, maybe some audiobook recommendations. But right now, with Mira Sayal. Sorry, Dame Mira Sayal. Here we go. Speaker 2 (9:21) Wait on that. Speaker 3 (9:53) Is there anything you don't want to talk about? Anything you're sick of talking about? Anything you'd rather just leave? Speaker 1 (9:59) No, I don't think so. Speaker 3 (10:01) Okay. I mean, you know. I can always say no. Exactly. As we go along. All right. If there's anything. that comes up, just say. Speaker 1 (10:10) I will. Can Speaker 3 (10:11) we not talk about that or whatever, you know, however you. Or how Speaker 1 (10:14) fucking dare you. Speaker 3 (10:15) How fucking dare you. Yes, yes. Although that will probably stay in because it's more spicy. I talked to Damon Albarn the other day. Speaker 1 (10:25) Oh, wow. Okay. His Speaker 3 (10:26) partner in crime in Gorillaz, Jamie Hewlett. Speaker 1 (10:30) Yeah. The Speaker 3 (10:31) artist. And they were, I would say, refreshingly candid. Speaker 1 (10:36) About each other? Just Speaker 3 (10:38) about everything. Like, just seemed quite unfiltered compared to the way most... Speaker 3 (10:45) People feel they need to be in the modern media sphere. Speaker 1 (10:49) Yes. Speaker 3 (10:50) So it was quite funny. Speaker 1 (10:52) And then didn't ask you to edit any of it? Speaker 3 (10:55) No. I was really surprised, actually. I sort of expected to get an email from the publicist. Yeah. Saying, you know what? Maybe lose the bit about Damon sometimes not wiping his bum. Speaker 3 (11:10) Which even at the time he was going, oh, I can't believe I just said that. And then his friend Jamie said, don't worry, they won't put Speaker 2 (11:17) that in. Speaker 1 (11:18) I said, of course I'm Speaker 2 (11:20) going Speaker 1 (11:20) to put it in. Speaker 3 (11:22) All right, let's see. Mary, will you tell me what you had for breakfast this morning, please? Speaker 1 (11:26) I was very healthy, Adam. I had homemade chia banana pudding with blueberries. Speaker 3 (11:33) Oh, beautiful. I had some blueberries as well. But you did the homemade banana pudding. What does that involve? Speaker 1 (11:39) Oh, honestly, it's so easy. You just mash the bananas in one of those mason jars. Then you add chia seeds and yogurt or your milk of your choice. I put in vanilla essence and a bit of peanut butter and you stick it in the fridge and it swells and goes into a pudding-y thing overnight. People put chocolate chips in and all kinds. And then I have that in the morning with loads of fruit and walnuts. Whoa. So good. And it fills you up. Yeah. Expands in your stomach. Because I used to eat sloth porridge, but actually I always felt hungry after about an hour and a half of porridge. It's like, I have to feel like I've had no breakfast. But not with chia seeds. They somehow do the trick. Speaker 3 (12:18) Well, obviously I know of your culinary genius. Speaker 1 (12:21) Because Speaker 3 (12:21) I shared a tent with you. You did. On the Great British Bake Off, Stand Up To Cancer, Celebrity Edition, which we recorded like two years ago. I Speaker 1 (12:30) know. Was there a heat wave then? Yeah, it was pretty hot. It was hot. How stressful was that? Speaker 3 (12:37) Really stressful. Really stressful. Speaker 1 (12:39) Yeah, why was it so stressful? I mean, for me, it's because my friends have always said, oh, you're a good cook. And, you know, when people say that to you over the years, you begin to believe it. And then you suddenly say, I'm going on this. And every single friend you have is like, right, right. Now we'll see if she's any good. So I felt this immense amount of sort of friend pressure, not so much from the judges, but honestly, from all those mates who'd, you know, over the years said, oh, I love what, you know, you cook this, you cook that. We love that. And I love cooking. I really do. But suddenly when it's an exam situation, which it did feel like, it becomes a lot. A lot less fun, doesn't it? Speaker 3 (13:15) Televised exam. Televised Speaker 1 (13:17) exam. Speaker 3 (13:18) Next to Tommy Tiernan, self-esteem. Speaker 1 (13:20) Oh, yeah. Speaker 3 (13:21) And Adam Buxton. Well, Speaker 1 (13:23) I have to say, your alien cake is honestly the highlight of every series for me. Nothing is going to compete with your banana gently drooping in the heat until it laid its little head. Speaker 3 (13:35) It was very sad. Honestly, I literally could have cried. I was like, oh, you... because I really genuinely thought like, I'm going to win this because it's such a good idea. Speaker 1 (13:47) It was a brilliant idea and it looked amazing. I mean, you should have. You should have. You just miscalculated the droop factor. I Speaker 3 (13:55) really did. As many Speaker 1 (13:55) men do. Speaker 3 (13:56) I think I was stitched up. I think they gave me a banana that was too ripe. Speaker 1 (14:00) There you go. The Speaker 3 (14:01) whole concept relied on an unripe Speaker 1 (14:04) banana that Speaker 3 (14:05) would stand up stiff in that. I apologise for using the word stiff. I hear you. In that pie, in that cherry pie. Speaker 1 (14:13) Damn it. Never mind. Every film fan was applauding you. Speaker 3 (14:17) Yeah, thank you. But one of the compensations was that at the end, they let you have any food that's been made and they box it up. Speaker 1 (14:26) Yes. And Speaker 3 (14:27) so even some of the disastrous cakes were actually quite tasty. They were. Speaker 1 (14:31) And Speaker 3 (14:32) I got to go home with the food that you made, which was delicious. And that night we had supper when I got back to Norfolk. And ate your... Speaker 1 (14:40) Frida Sago paneer pie. Speaker 3 (14:42) Yeah. Speaker 1 (14:43) Beautiful Speaker 3 (14:43) pie. Speaker 1 (14:44) Explain what was in that. I basically made a Sago paneer curry and stuck it in a pie. That's what I did. Speaker 3 (14:50) I didn't even realise there was cheese in it. Yeah. I hate cheese. Oh, Speaker 1 (14:54) well, it's not quite like, you know, it's a very different kind of cheese, much lighter. It's more like cottage cheese. It doesn't Speaker 3 (15:00) make it better for me. Just the word cheese. But you ate it. Makes me sad. I loved it. So maybe I do like cheese. Maybe you Speaker 1 (15:06) do. Speaker 3 (15:08) Also, though, I had some of your crumpets. Speaker 1 (15:10) Did you like them? Yeah. Speaker 3 (15:12) Oh, good. They were amazing. Speaker 1 (15:13) I just Speaker 3 (15:14) did Marmite crumpets, which were way too salty. Oh, but I love Marmite. I mean, it was fine. Paul Hollywood said, not bad, but you've gone nuts with the salt. Oh, no, because I had hummus made from edamame beans. Also Speaker 1 (15:28) a very good idea. Speaker 3 (15:29) Yeah, but that was too salty as well. So anyway, what were your ones? Speaker 1 (15:34) They were savoury crumpets flavoured with curry leaves and lime. And I just bought a lot of Indian flavours into whatever I cook because that's what I'm confident with. That's what I grew up cooking. So for me, that felt easy. That's the palette that you paint with. Yeah, that's right. It is. In Speaker 3 (15:51) the Speaker 1 (15:51) kitchen. Ask me to do anything fancy in French, I'd nosedive. I'd be awful. Speaker 3 (15:55) Yeah, OK. It was, I'm not joking, so delicious and also beautiful. It was very beautifully presented. Speaker 1 (16:02) Oh, thank you. Were you, Speaker 3 (16:03) you're not an art school girl though, are you? Speaker 1 (16:06) No. Oh my God. I'm so bad at drawing. So bad that once I was asked to do a painting for a charity who was going to auction them. This was some years back and they donated mine back to me. I said, I don't think anyone's going to want this. I was so embarrassed because I tried to do something figurative, which just looked, it was meant to be sort of this. Indian face with the big bindi and the big eyes and I'm trying to do something flashy with it and honestly it looked like someone had had a stroke. And I should have gone for something, you know, abstract because no one can judge you on that. I should have just done some splodges on a canvas and gone, this is how I feel when I'm deep in my depression. I don't know why I'm going Russian for that. And it probably would have sold but they literally said take it back. That is how bad I am at art. Speaker 3 (16:52) Okay. Well, you express yourself through... cooking so i Speaker 1 (16:57) do i love feeding people it's one of the greatest Speaker 3 (16:59) art forms in the world i Speaker 1 (17:00) think you can tell a lot about someone if they like food and how they eat their food you know if you see someone that's licking their lips and chucking the oysters down and opening their figs in a saucy manner you go mm-hmm yep yes to you you like life you're sensual what about Speaker 3 (17:18) if they are tipping the last shards of some crisps down their neck from from a pack of cheese and onion Speaker 1 (17:24) Do you know, it depends what's available, but that to me shows someone that's getting every last crumb. And you go, you will get every last crumb of life. I like you. All Speaker 3 (17:31) right, good. Hey, congratulations on writing a memoir. Is that memoir number one? Yes, Speaker 1 (17:38) one and only probably. But oh my gosh, I'm nervous. Now you've been through this. Speaker 2 (17:42) Yeah, twice. Speaker 1 (17:44) It's quite, isn't it a bit, I've written three fiction novels and I of course didn't feel the same about that. But this is like, I'm giving away stuff. I'm putting stuff out there that is out there forever. And that's a bit scary. Speaker 3 (17:56) Yeah. What was the process? Did you have an editor who worked with you on what to include? Did you have a good sense of what you were comfortable sharing and what you weren't going to share? Speaker 1 (18:08) Yeah, I did talk through all of that. I had a great editor. I mean, I knew that I didn't want to write a linear. memoir, because they can be a little bit predictable. You know, I was born then, and then I did this, and then that happened, and then that happened, which is fine and really perfectly acceptable if you're Barbara Streisand or somebody hugely famous who's had the most extraordinary life. Well, you know, no to both for me. So I think I had to be judicious about how I structured it and what I would include and ask myself, why is this interesting enough to put down? Because most of your life isn't, at least mine. It's called vigilante, pun intended, because the aunties are a sort of running theme all the way through. I grew up with this big matriarchal group of women and they are your sort of military police. They are your conscience, they are your guides and they are also the people that are hardest on you. And I used to fear them and then I became one and now I understand them. And that to me was the arc of womanhood and coming into who I am. And so I thought, well, If I think about it, some of the things they said in my life really stuck with me, changed the course of my life in some way. And I thought, what if I headline each chapter with a phrase that somebody said to me at a time in my life that completely flipped it, was one of those sliding doors moments. So each chapter starts with one of those phrases. So the chapter about my early childhood is called Don't Sit With Your Legs Apart. which was said to me at regular intervals when I was a little girl because I was such a tomboy. And then the chapter about being a young teenager and going into teenage years was said by an auntie, which is, you can only get fat after you're married, which to me told me everything about what was expected of me. And so that's how I've tried to structure it. And on the way, I would run stuff past my editor and go, you know, is... Is this entertaining enough? Is this insightful enough? That bit isn't. No, take it out then. I want someone to feel at the end of the chapter that they've had a really good chat, a fireside chat from which maybe they've taken something away that's interesting. Speaker 3 (20:13) And did you have any times when you thought, because what happened with me was that I thought, hmm, I've got nothing really, as you said, you know, like no big pivotal moments that everybody's desperate to read about. Yeah. So you're sort of just dredging stuff up that you hope will be relatable by everybody. Speaker 2 (20:34) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 3 (20:35) And... I sort of thought, well, people put a premium on all the dark stuff, but I've had quite a nice life. I've been very lucky in all sorts of ways. Sorry Speaker 1 (20:44) about Speaker 3 (20:44) that. Yeah. So, hmm, what terrible things have happened to me? When was the darkest moment in my life? I sort of started thinking, well, what are the relatably dark things about being a father or being a husband or, you know, I could go there. There have definitely been moments when you stare into the abyss and you think like, oh, I'm terrible. Speaker 2 (21:06) You Speaker 3 (21:06) know, maybe that's worth talking about. But actually, I realized the great thing about an editor in those moments was he sort of saved me from myself, really. Speaker 1 (21:15) Right. And Speaker 3 (21:16) he said, actually, no one wants to read that. Speaker 3 (21:20) And even if they did, that's not the kind of audience you want to attract. Speaker 1 (21:24) Yes. You Speaker 3 (21:25) know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 (21:26) I Speaker 3