1KHO 931: There Is More Than One Path To a Good Life | Ana Homayoun, Getting In Is Not Enough

The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast

In this episode, Ana Homayoun discusses her book 'Getting In Is Not Enough,' which critiques the cultural obsession with college admissions a

Key takeaways

• College acceptance has become a 'faulty finish line' that creates immense parental anxiety and ignores long-term success factors.
• Executive functioning skills—such as organizing, planning, and prioritizing—are often neglected in favor of chasing grades and test scores.

Main topics

• College admissions pressure
• Executive functioning development

Notable quotes

College acceptance itself has falsely become a symbol of parenting triumph.

Conclusion

The episode provides a roadmap for parents to shift focus from academi

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:33) Hey friends, thanks for spending time with me today. I'm really excited about today's conversation because it gets at something that starts so much earlier than we realize. Ana Hamoyan has spent 25 years working with students and families and her newest book is called Getting In Is Not Enough, the new blueprint for success beyond grades, test scores, and college admissions. We're going to be talking about college, but this conversation is really about childhood because when child acceptance becomes the finish line we're all barreling toward, it can start affecting the choices we make when our kids are 5, 8, 10, 12. Do they have time to play? Do they have time to be outside? Do they have room to discover what they're interested in? Or are we constantly thinking about the next class, the next team, the next achievement, the next thing that's going to give them an advantage? Ana calls college acceptance a faulty finish line because getting into a certain school doesn't guarantee a good life. And in our race to get kids there, we can overlook the very skills that can help them build one. This one gave me a lot to think about. Here's Ana Hamoyan. Speaker 2 (1:32) Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Ertz, I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside, and we are going to be talking Speaker 3 (1:37) today about a topic that I'm super passionate about. I read a book called Getting In Is Not Enough, The New Blueprint for Success Beyond Grades, Test Scores, and College Admission. The author is here. She's written several other books. Ana Hamoyan, welcome. Speaker 2 (1:53) Thanks so much for having me. Speaker 3 (1:54) People can go to your website, anahamoyan.com. Check out your newsletter. I'll make sure I put the links in the show notes for spelling. You've got other books too. That crumpled paper was due last week, Social Media Wellness. This is about the three S's framework and then the myth of the perfect girl. I took nine pages of notes on this book. Getting in is not enough because we frame all of childhood often based off this, you call it a faulty finish line. Give us a little bit of your backstory. You're an academic advisor. Speaker 2 (2:23) Yeah, so I started working with students 25 years ago and when I started working with them I really quickly realized that there were students that were incredibly cognitively intelligent and were losing their confidence in middle school and high school. They were becoming less engaged. They were less excited and enthused. And we were really losing these potential young people from their own greatness. And one of the things I found was really important, in addition to spending time outside, which I love your message. because it's so critically important, was the executive functioning skills that come from the unstructured play, that we're able to organize, plan, prioritize, start and complete tasks and be adaptable as planned. So I started doing this work. And my office is located in Silicon Valley, where I grew up, which is crazy. It's a crazy place. I can say that to all people. And I think that also helps me understand technology and the conversations people are having even more. Because when I first started, there was no Twitter, Tumblr or X or Instagram or Snapchat or TikTok or YouTube gaming. And it was all very different. There were no iPads in schools. There was no Chromebook. So all of this has changed in the time that I've worked with kids. And so when I started, I really saw how if we taught kids these skills and help them build them, it really changed their confidence in themselves, their awareness of the world. And they're, you know, thinking of their own possibilities of building their own blueprint instead of borrowing someone else's. Speaker 3 (3:58) All right, here we go. Talking about all these incredible topics. The phrase that you use is insidious cultural norm. Getting into college has become an insidious cultural norm. You feel like it's this blanket stamp of approval that you get as a student, but also as a parent. You include that as well. This is like the parent's final finish line. Parental anxiety permeates every conversation as if 18 years of child rearing and carpooling and science fairs and sports tournaments. all culminate in this final evaluation. College acceptance itself has falsely become a symbol of parenting triumph. So there's this immense pressure. And we have a son. You know, he's 18 years old. The question, he just graduated. The question is, where's he going? Where's he going? He's going nowhere. Speaker 2 (4:48) I think that's a terrible question, to be honest. And I really, if there's one thing people learn, it's like, what are you looking forward to next year? That is the question. That gives every child the opportunity to be positive, hopeful, and think that there are things to think about. Like, what's one thing you're looking forward to next year? That allows them to answer it any way they want. Because quite frankly, you know, the whole conversation that I want to have is that we need students to build these fundamental skills for life that are not being taught in schools. And looking at college as this finish line, college acceptance, particularly as a finish line, right, is what's harming all of our children, because it's creating this checklist that you're supposed to do. And you're not even allowed to just like kind of hang out outside, go enjoy yourself, let your mind wander. And those are the ways that problems get solved, emotions get regulated, and you're able to navigate. And so, you know, I don't think it's college or no, I said, like, what are you looking forward to next year? Speaker 3 (5:55) Yeah, yeah, the question shouldn't be where are you going? Because it's very narrow focused. But that is the question that everyone has asked, where's he going? And I love what you just brought up because that is the point. This conversation is the most important conversation because if we're stuck in this rat race with this faulty finish line, we possibly make different choices on how we structure the earlier childhood years. Do we allow freedom? Do we allow time outside? Or are we trying to control because we're barreling toward college acceptance? So I learned in this book about deferral. This must be something new. I didn't go through this when I did college about early decision. So can you talk to us about early decision and what's going on with that? Speaker 2 (6:39) Yeah. So early decision, some schools offer it, not all schools, but it is where you apply usually on an earlier date, although they have multiple rounds of early decision now. But the earliest date is typically November 1st. And you say to the school, if you let me in, I will come here. I am telling you 100 % I will come here. Now, the challenge, of course, is that many 18-year-olds change or 19 or however old they are, change their minds. The challenge is that finances play a role. And so there's a lot to think about, right, from a family perspective. And I also would say after 25 years of working with kids, particularly boys, I will say who they are in August or September of their senior year in April. can be very different. Well, that's interesting. Yeah, because they're still growing, they're developing. Some of them are becoming much more confident and self-assured. So you'll have students often who are thinking about applying to college, let's just say, in September who then, you know, what they think is their options versus what they wear they want to think about in the spring are very different. But early decision is binding. That's what families should know. Now, there are ways that, you know, if you can't afford it or there are and typically if you end up there are certain loopholes. But the idea that you need to understand is that the school is saying, if we let you in, you're definitely coming here. And that increases your chances of getting in. Typically, some schools take a lot of their students early decision because they really want that guarantee. Right. You know, that's not that doesn't mean it's necessarily. the right choice for a student. It has been for some of the students, but not for all. Speaker 3 (8:20) What pressure. It's so much pressure, this early decision. Like, that's so early. Then you're talking about what happens if you don't get in. Lauren thought she did everything she was supposed to do. She took rigorous classes. She earned top grades. She studied and received top test scores and participated in interesting, unique activities that were meaningful to her. And then some of these colleges are filling half of their first year class using this early decision process. And then I was like, early decision two, early decision three. I was like, it's kind of funny, but also super stressful. So let's talk about the fact that there is this cultural norm, a romantic notion you talk that getting into a good college acceptance into a good college or university guarantees a lifetime of success. Most adults with at least a couple decades of living under their belts will agree that life does not come with any guarantees, especially especially around success. So can you talk about why are we following falling for this idea? And like the whole culture is falling for this idea. Speaker 2 (9:22) I think a lot of it has to do with fear, right? If you think about the conversation that we hear a lot is that are the youngest generation is not going to be able to have the same lifestyle as their elders or their grandparents. And so there's this fear of scarcity. So when there's this fear of scarcity, right, what you do is you're like, well, just tell me what to do to get to abundance. And if that means that I take my kid to extra math lessons and they do 75 activities and they're up till 11 o'clock doing homework, but the promised land is that their outcome is going to be better. I'm willing. I'm willing to trade off the childhood. But we know. That's actually not how it works. And now more and more people are waking up to this, which I love because this is the whole point of the book. Like I had so many parents who would look at their own parenting being like, well, you know, Johnny didn't get into X school. That's a reflection of like me, my parenting or all this stuff. And I'm like, Johnny's a great kid. He's a great young person in the world. I would want Johnny to work for me someday. You know, like all of these good qualities. But they get lost in this conversation of did he or didn't he or did she or didn't they? Did they get in where we think is acceptable? And the reality that I also want to think, and I think of Jeff Salingo wrote the book Dream School. And I think one of the most important points in that book that's also helpful around the work that I do is that you want to go, if your child is going to go to college or whatever learning experience they're going to have next, we're all learning at every point. You want a place where they're going to thrive in that they are challenged but not overwhelmed. Because one of the things I think about in my own college experience is that there were a lot of weed out classes, particularly in the sciences, right? And then I think that there are so many people that could have been doctors or could have had, you know, you know, careers in the sciences, but they were in these weed out classes of freshmen and sophomore year. This is very typical, right? Versus if they went to a school that was super nurturing and they're like, we want everybody to understand organic chemistry. We're not trying to get kids to drop out of being pre-med. We want them to really understand it. So do you see the difference in attitude? Yeah. And I think that that's also the difference we want to have an over, learning and engagement. It's like, it doesn't matter when you get it. We want you to make sure you get it if you want to understand this stuff. Right. Speaker 3 (11:54) Right. And so this is sort of the point of the book. It's like, it's not just about getting in. What happens if you get in and you get weeded out from what you really wanted to do? Getting in is not enough. So a huge chunk of the book is about making a good life. What are the fundamental skills of a good life and not these sort of artificial markers? So you tell parents, getting into college does not make a good life. It could. It doesn't make a life. It could, but it doesn't guarantee it. And so you say, they all believe me, but only up to a point. So let's talk about some of these fundamental skills. You talk about what employers are looking for these days, and it doesn't necessarily have to do with test scores and things like that. So kicking it off, one of the things that you talk about is the importance of connection. Speaker 1 (12:43) Mm-hmm. Speaker 3 (12:43) Friendships are on the decline. So can you talk about how when we're stuck in the rat race toward a college finish line, that can over time undermine connection? There's the competition and then maybe also there's like the time piece. Speaker 2 (12:58) Yeah. So connection that is authentic and non-transactional is so important. And we lose sight of this when we're like in this nonstop. competition or frenzy towards college acceptance. Because what ends up happening is we're in this, a lot of times in a scarcity mindset. Like if that kid gets in, I'm not going to get it. Kids think this, but also parents think this. So everything becomes sort of like this underlying frenemy dynamic that we don't even realize. And I like to help kids think of this. One, I want to make sure that you have multiple spaces where you feel a sense of belonging. So if school's not doing that for you, I want to make sure you have multiple spaces outside of school. That's one. I also want to make sure you have supporters and clarifiers in your life. So supporters are the people that are really excited when something good happens for you. They're supportive, right? And when I use that definition for middle school and high school students and even adult women, sometimes they're like, who would you call if something awesome happened to you? Like you ended up getting one, this amazing dream scenario. And who would say, oh my goodness, I am so excited for you. I'm thrilled for you. Those are their supporters, right? And so the people that we kind of are nervous to call and let them know something could happen to us, we got to watch out and really help our kids also. What we model is really important around this. And then clarifiers are the adults that help provide us clarity. And as we get older, they could be our peers as well. Those people that we call when we need to think through something, when we need advice on something, and they offer us that clarity. And what I've noticed also with a lot of young adults is that, and I don't know if this is related to sort of the culture of feeling like you always have to get everything right, but they're more afraid to reach out for help or cultivate these connections that are non-transactional that you can reach out to in a situation like this, where you're like, hey, I just, I'd love to run this by you. And so. I benefit from the fact that I have friendships with people that are 20, 30 years older and are 20 years younger. Like the 20 years younger at this point, they're mid twenties. They tell me things about young adult life, work life culture that I'm like, Oh, this is really helpful information that I would not know in my role and my age. And they're mentoring me around this as much as I'm getting mentored by people who are 20 years older than me that say, you know, I'm running, I'm like, let me run this scenario by you. What do you think? So All of this to be really helpful is like the connections that we make in multiple settings and also across, you know, the challenge. Sorry, let me back up and say the challenge that a lot of kids are finding is that