461. Grief Stays the Same Size, but You Keep Growing
Thanks For Asking
Nora McInerney reflects on finding 'okay' moments amid grief and daily chaos, sharing personal updates about welcoming a new baby girl into her blended family and navigating shifting domestic roles
Key takeaways
- Nora welcomes a baby girl after years of trying and a miscarriage, noting how the new arrival has helped heal co-parenting tensions with her partner's ex.
- She introduces the 'jar model' (or Tonkin model) of grief, explaining that sorrow stays the same size but life expands around it through post-traumatic growth.
Main topics
- Grief and post-traumatic growth
- Domestic routine and shifting family roles
Notable quotes
"Your grief stays the same size, but you grow around it."
Conclusion
The episode offers a grounded, compassionate reminder that healing isn
Transcript preview
Speaker 1 (0:16) I'm Nora McInerney, and it's going to be okay. I would never tell you, as you know, that everything is going to be okay. In my experience, that's not the case. I think that if you have eyes, ears, a functioning brain, you can look around the world and see a lot of things that are not okay and would never be okay. And I also know that we cannot fall into the pit of despair and stay there. Sometimes I've been known to you know, settle in for. longer than I'd care to admit, but even when it feels like nothing is okay, when I dig deep, when I open my eyes, I can usually find something that is not the worst. And that's kind of what this show is about. It is sort of an exercise in... lowering the bar. It's an exercise in appreciation. It's an exercise in finding the okay in the everyday, in the mundane. Some things are truly spectacular. I want to hear about those things too. I want to share those things too. But really, we are trying to keep it as simple as possible. We are trying to just put a little bit of okay in your day. We love to hear from all of you. I have been having guests on. Today, it's just me. Today, it's just me, some voicemails, a text message, and a list of things that I have been wanting to talk about with all of you. So let's do it. Let's do it. Speaker 1 (1:51) After about five years of trying and a miscarriage that broke my spirit, I welcomed a perfect baby girl last week. Speaker 1 (2:00) My partner has an eight-year-old son who taught me endless things about being a parent, including how icky it can be to go through the court system. Thankfully, after many years of conflict, things with his mom have become almost cordial. This baby girl has healed things already. I love to see it. We received a giant floral arrangement a few days after coming home from the hospital. Takes up the entire table huge. I burst into tears when the note revealed that it came from my stepson's grandparents, the parents of his mom. Speaker 1 (2:33) I have goosebumps. It seems everyone has decided to let the past quiet down and move forward with a little more love. A very good thing, indeed. Speaker 1 (2:48) That Speaker 2 (2:48) is so beautiful and Speaker 1 (2:50) so wonderful. Speaker 1 (2:52) And I'm so glad you shared that with us. That's so beautiful. Speaker 1 (2:57) Oh. That's so beautiful. That's so beautiful. That's so beautiful. I love it. I love it. We're going to start with this voicemail, which I hope everybody loves as much as I do. Speaker 2 (3:12) Hey, sorry, I got this number as a grief sign for a wind fountain, so just, you know, bye. Speaker 1 (3:22) I've been getting kind of a lot of voicemails that are like, sorry, I didn't mean to call you, but this one, she said it was for a wind farm. It was on a sign for a wind farm. Okay. All right. I got a couple others that said, is this my insurance company? No. No. It's not your insurance company. If I were a different kind of person, maybe I would have like an ongoing scam where I pretended to be your insurance company. But unfortunately, not only am I just fundamentally against scamming people, I don't have the smarts. I don't have the smarts to run an operation like that. So if you erroneously call this number thinking that it's your insurance company, thinking that you're protesting a wind farm, sure. Your secret is safe with me. Whatever you want to call, whatever you want to share is fine. Speaker 1 (4:19) Voicemail number two. Speaker 2 (4:22) Hi, it's Cece and it's going to be okay. I am a first-time caller, long-time listener, and I just moved to Boston with my husband and we are having such a great time getting to experience this city. And I just wanted to say that six years ago I lost my significant other to an accidental overdose and a grief group that I was attending. Speaker 2 (4:55) showcase Nora's TED Talks. And I show that TED Talks to anyone who will let me show them that TED Talks. And even though like... Speaker 2 (5:07) Six years ago, that was the worst pain I've ever imagined, and, you know, it never really goes away. But it's like how they say where your grief is like a bubble, and, like, you grow around it. The grief, like, doesn't really get smaller, but you grow around it. And I'm finding that to be so true. And I wouldn't have the life I have today if I hadn't known and loved Brett. And for that, I'm grateful. And it's going to be okay. Speaker 3 (5:38) Thank Speaker 2 (5:38) you. Speaker 2 (5:41) It Speaker 1 (5:41) was really beautiful. That's really beautiful. That's actually kind of a perfect example of it's going to be okay. Guys, sometimes these are silly. Sometimes they're very, very meaningful. I think they're always sincere, right? Even the silly things are sincere. Even getting a wrong number, I do sincerely love. But I also really love when we're reminded by people who know the depths of loss that that is not all there is. Thank you for calling in. Thank you for sharing all of that with us. It's not as though you trade one life for another. This is all your life, all your life. As, you know, Rekha said that the beauty and the terror, that is life. Let everything happen to you. What she's discussing in this is the jar model of grief, which... or the Tonkin model of grief, I believe, which is that visual that you've probably seen where your grief is a ball and it takes up like the entire jar, the jar being, you know, any container, but it being your life, you know, when it's new, when you're suffering of any kind, right? Doesn't have to be death, is new. It really feels like this is all that exists. This is all that will ever exist. And people think that. you know, oh, it'll just get smaller in time. And in reality, your grief stays the same size, but you grow around it. It is, you know, post-traumatic growth. Your life gets bigger. And I think our lives do get bigger, not in spite of our suffering, but because of it. And I don't say that to bright side anybody. You do not have to speed run your way to meaning. You do not have to do what I was introduced to as a phrase. This week, which does connect, it's going to connect to some of my OK things. You do not have to mine for meaning. You do not have to be mining for meaning. But meaning can be found in any circumstance or at least the limited number of circumstances I've experienced. Not because everything happens for a reason. No, no, no. Your fiance didn't. die of an accidental overdose just so that you could enjoy Boston. That's not what we're saying. Okay. My husband didn't die of brain cancer so I could have a podcast. Okay. I've made this joke before, but it stands. He would only lay down his life if I were about to get like an HBO special. You know, he was, he had, he had high hopes, high hopes for me. All right. Next and last voicemail. This one's kind of interesting because this is really, this is a call to action. This is a call for calls. And it's coming from one of you. So let's hear it. Speaker 3 (8:28) Hi, I'm Jackie and it's going to be okay, I hope. But I was calling because I had an idea for a podcast and I'm sure you get this all the time. But I've been listening to you for years. You are one of my heroes. I think the things you explore and how real you are and just the way you communicate is amazing. So I tell people all the time, you're one of my best friends that's never met me. Anyways, I'm sure you get that a lot. Speaker 3 (8:58) My situation is that I am 46 and I am navigating a divorce. And I'm trying to make it amiable. I'm trying to make it good for my kids. And also, after a long line of religious suppression, I'm trying to come out as myself. Speaker 3 (9:20) I want to... Speaker 3 (9:23) I mean, live my life as who I really am, which is a lesbian. So there's tons of ins and outs. I actually was married for 20 years and my kids are 12 and 9 and 7. Speaker 3 (9:41) I was ready and willing to just stay forever and honestly it's not that I am a lesbian is the reason why I left the marriage there was a lot of other very difficult things and when my brother died in 2013 I just realized you know, not only was I not compatible with him in certain ways, but also, I mean, life was hard and it was harder with him and that's not how it's supposed to be. And you get this one life and I want to live it authentically. Speaker 3 (10:14) There's lots of other things and maybe this isn't even interesting to you, but I just figured, I don't know. I wish that I had heard some podcasts and I really do believe that. even though we're going to go through a lot of things. And I have been going through a lot of things because we're in the beginning stages of. me coming out, but it is going to be okay. I hope you're doing well. Bye. Speaker 1 (10:40) It is going to be okay. You are going to be okay. I love a lesbian coming out story. I really do. I'm not trying to make light of divorce. I know that it is very hard. I've witnessed many of them myself, but this is a call to all listeners who have some experience to share with this listener. I would really, really. love to hear from you. You can just call the regular podcast line if you want. You know, like we don't have to, I don't know, maybe we shouldn't have two phone numbers. You guys have to tell me. 612-568-4441. My favorite kind of episodes to make are episodes that have been requested by somebody. And actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I actually know a late in life, divorced lesbian who did this in... an era where it wasn't as, you know, where it wasn't safe, where it wasn't as safe. Not like it's, you know, the safest era we've ever lived in for queer people. But I don't know,