Stephen Graham

Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware

In this episode of Table Manners, actor Stephen Graham joins hosts Jessie and Lennie Ware for a lively and slightly chaotic brunch. The conversation

Key takeaways

• Stephen Graham discusses growing up in Kirkby, Liverpool, and his mixed Irish, Scottish, Jamaican, and African heritage revealed through DNA testing.
• He shares the romantic story of finally telling his wife Hannah he loved her at New Cross station after five years of friendship with benefits.

Main topics

• Childhood & Heritage in Kirkby
• Romance & Marriage to Hannah

Notable quotes

"The biggest the strongest quality a man can have is vulnerability to me that's just the way i look at it"

Conclusion

The episode offers a candid look into Graham's personal growth, creativ

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) you Speaker 2 (0:03) Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and Lenny's just swapping her hair. Speaker 3 (0:08) Shushing, darling. Speaker 2 (0:09) Looks great. We had a lovely weekend, didn't we? We went to, we had Rochechonneur, which was gorgeous. Yeah, Speaker 3 (0:15) good. Speaker 2 (0:16) And we also had Paddington on Sunday. Speaker 3 (0:21) I'm into marmalade now. Mar Speaker 2 (0:23) -mar-mar-mar-mar Speaker 3 (0:24) -mar-mar-marmalade. Speaker 2 (0:26) Respect. Tom Fletcher, you did it. Those songs are catchy as anything. It was so gorgeous. Speaker 3 (0:32) Bonnie Speaker 2 (0:32) Langford. Speaker 1 (0:33) Oh, was it Bonnie Langford? Speaker 2 (0:35) Yeah. With the legs split. Speaker 3 (0:37) She was very good. That's why everyone was Speaker 2 (0:40) so thrilled. Speaker 3 (0:41) She was very good. Speaker 2 (0:42) I really loved it. Go and see it. I mean, it's a pricey ticket, but dare I say, worth it? I think so. It was amazing. And the wonderful Speaker 3 (0:52) Paddington. Just gorgeous. I love the way the eyes moved when he was sad. Speaker 2 (0:57) I want to know how the lady inside was doing it all. I know, his eyes just went so sad. It Speaker 3 (1:03) was Speaker 2 (1:03) gorgeous. But enough talking about other people's brilliant acting. We have one of the greatest actors of our time. In my kitchen in a minute. It's Stephen Graham. You will know from whether you've watched Snatch or This Is England. Line of Duty. Line of Duty, Band of Brothers. The dad in the Matilda musical. Speaker 3 (1:22) The blow the... A Thousand Blows. A Thousand Blows. Speaker 2 (1:25) That was on Speaker 3 (1:25) Disney. Help, Speaker 2 (1:27) the one about COVID. Father of Bruce Springsteen. I mean, he's played everyone. And of course... which was this huge hit. What's been born out of it is huge discussions. It's now in every school, I think, as learning material. And also he's written a book which was inspired by these tough conversations that maybe weren't being had. It's called Letters to Our Sons and it's a collection of letters from different men to their sons. And it's a really interesting, beautiful read. Saw Riz Ahmed's on in there. Speaker 3 (2:01) Yeah. Yeah. But lots of them are anonymous. Lots of them are Speaker 2 (2:04) anonymous. It reminds us a bit of when Gillian Anderson came on this podcast and did a whole collection of essays and letters about want and desire. It's really, really brilliant. But also he's coming on to talk about Nocturne, which is released on Apple TV on the 30th of October. Speaker 3 (2:20) Liv Schreiber's in it. It's an amazing cast. It's incredibly dark. It's also Speaker 2 (2:25) really gripping and brilliant. And I feel like everyone's going to be watching it and talking about it. He plays the main man who is in a, what do you call it when it's high security? It's high security. He's a prisoner who is, well, you know what? I'll let him talk about it. He plays a really dark character, Kelsa Preece, but he is very good at it. Speaker 3 (2:48) But I always feel he's got such warmth in everything he plays. He's Speaker 2 (2:51) got Speaker 3 (2:51) very kind Speaker 2 (2:52) eyes, doesn't Speaker 3 (2:52) he? Speaker 2 (2:53) Yeah, Speaker 3 (2:53) he's kind and I don't know if it's because of that scouse in him, but he's always very endearing and very engaging. Darlene, what have you made for him? Because it's a funny... It's kind of brunch. Speaker 2 (3:04) So I've made, from Mira Soda's book, Dinner. Speaker 3 (3:08) You've not made dinner, darling. I Speaker 2 (3:10) haven't made dinner, but it's from Mira Soda's book, Dinner. It's the cheddar and gotcha chang cornbread that we're going to have with a pickled sweet corn on top. And then we're going to have fried eggs and bacon with it and sour cream and some avocado. Does that sound all right? Fabulous. You're going for it, darling. I don't know. I feel like this is a bit of a showstopper. I'm so bad with baking. I hope it's okay. But I know it tasted good. The batter tasted amazing. So I feel like that would be quite delicious. Fried egg. So yeah, and then you've made pudding. Speaker 3 (3:45) Yeah. Speaker 2 (3:46) What have you made? Speaker 3 (3:47) Well, I've made a kind of blueberry and raspberry tiramisu. Can't Speaker 2 (3:52) go wrong. It's like cream. Let's Speaker 3 (3:53) see Speaker 2 (3:53) what Speaker 3 (3:54) it's like. Speaker 2 (3:55) Ladies' fingers? Speaker 3 (3:56) Ladies' fingers. Only one little thing. and then mascarpone with egg and I put blueberries through the whole thing and then blueberries and raspberries on top. That sounds great. Be nice for a little taste. Stephen Speaker 2 (4:09) Groen coming up on Table Manners. Speaker 2 (4:17) Stephen Graham. Hello. So excited to have you. Speaker 3 (4:21) Gracing our table. We're Speaker 2 (4:23) so happy. Speaker 1 (4:25) I'm very nervous, actually. Oh, shut up. Speaker 3 (4:27) What are Speaker 2 (4:27) you Speaker 3 (4:27) nervous about? Because my Speaker 1 (4:28) missus adores you two. Oh, gosh. Massively. She loves you, honestly. Yeah. And I've seen some stuff as well. So I'm always a bit nervous at these things. They're slightly... Speaker 3 (4:38) No, we don't hijack anyone. We just chat. Speaker 2 (4:41) The only thing you need to be nervous about is if you get a bit of coriander in your teeth and I've got you. So don't worry. You've got me. Yeah. Have you got coriander Speaker 3 (4:47) in your food today? Speaker 2 (4:49) Sorry, is that okay? Do you hate coriander? Are Speaker 1 (4:51) you Speaker 2 (4:51) one of those people that hates coriander? Speaker 1 (4:52) Have you got coriander in there, though? Speaker 2 (4:53) Not yet. Speaker 1 (4:54) You hate it. Speaker 2 (4:56) Thank God. Thank God we talked. You were so polite, though. You were going to go with it. Speaker 1 (5:01) It's not Speaker 2 (5:02) in yet. Speaker 1 (5:03) Okay, well, can we sway the coriander? Speaker 2 (5:05) It's right there. No, do not do it. Do you have the thing, then? I Speaker 1 (5:09) just think it's like soap. Speaker 2 (5:11) Yeah, you've Speaker 3 (5:12) got it, then. Speaker 2 (5:12) You know Speaker 3 (5:12) this is a thing. It's a thing that people, some people really, it reacts in their body and it tastes like soap. Speaker 3 (5:21) It's not that you just don't like it. It makes Speaker 1 (5:24) you taste awful. She calls it the devil's herb. The devil's herb. Yeah. Speaker 2 (5:28) So you've got that too. I do, yeah. It's actually a medical condition. Is it? Yeah. You can be like, I'm so sorry, I'm intolerant to coriander. You mean like Speaker 1 (5:37) gluten Speaker 3 (5:38) -free? Speaker 2 (5:38) Yeah, they go any intolerances, you can't coriander, actually. Speaker 1 (5:42) Okay. No, I can't stand it. God, I didn't put it in. Neither does Grace and Alfie. They can't stand it, neither. Speaker 2 (5:46) Really? Are those your kit? Speaker 1 (5:47) Yeah. Right, okay. How old Speaker 2 (5:49) are they? Speaker 1 (5:50) Grace is 21 and Alfie was 20 a couple of weeks ago. She's Speaker 3 (5:53) gorgeous as well. Both of them are so good looking. How are you looking at your children? Pictures of them when they were at an awards ceremony looking proud. No, Speaker 2 (6:01) to be fair, I'm off the old Insta now, but I did see a fantastic bit where you're doing your dance thing. You're an amazing dancer. Yeah, me and Speaker 1 (6:10) Alfie just messing about. He always gets me to do these silly things. Yeah, but Speaker 2 (6:13) you used to dance when you were younger, right? I Speaker 1 (6:15) was a breakdancer in the townie. Oh my God, could Speaker 2 (6:18) you do it all? on Speaker 3 (6:19) your head? No, no, no. Speaker 1 (6:21) Oh, no, I could, yeah. You could? I thought you were going to ask me to do it. No, don't worry. I'll call it hip or something, do you know what I mean? I'm very old now. No, when I was a kid, we had a little breakdancing crew and my mum never used to know, but we were in a town. We used to go to town with our ghetto blaster and some lino and throw it down and just rest, play. And you'd get a couple of quid, do you know what I mean, between us. What Speaker 2 (6:45) was like your showstopper? Speaker 1 (6:47) Well, it was two amazing dancers called Darren Ailey and Justin Henry. Yeah. And they were like phenomenal. And they taught me a little bit of it. I mean, just do that for me. You can do that. Speaker 2 (6:58) It was Speaker 1 (6:58) just that little bit of it. Speaker 2 (6:59) It's really good, Steve. So I Speaker 1 (7:00) learned from them. And our Alan was in the crew and everything. And we were called the Kirby Bracers. Speaker 3 (7:06) The Kirby Bracers. The Kirby Bracers, yeah. Speaker 1 (7:08) Yeah, back in Speaker 3 (7:09) the Speaker 1 (7:09) day. Speaker 3 (7:09) Where were you exactly from? Speaker 1 (7:11) Kirby. Kirby. Kirby, yeah. Just a little town. Speaker 3 (7:16) I Speaker 2 (7:16) thought it was because you were street dancing outside, so you were on the curbs. Speaker 3 (7:20) No, no, no. That works. Speaker 1 (7:23) Yeah, I like that. That works. So Speaker 3 (7:25) can Speaker 1 (7:25) you Speaker 2 (7:25) still be a scouter if you're from Kirby? Well, we are Speaker 1 (7:27) scouters, yeah. Oh, you're the proper scouters. Oh, okay. Technically, look, we're like 30 minutes away from the centre of town, but what Kirby is, is Kirby's a little place where... When me nana and all them back in the day, they used to live off Scotty Road and they got sent. Scotty Road. Well, you had to apply to go to Kirby because it was like, ooh, everywhere's green and lovely. No one would be coming overcrowded. So they sent them out to them areas and that's where I was born and raised, Kirby. Well, Speaker 2 (7:52) let's take it back to then. Can you give us a memorable dish from your childhood and tell us who was round the dinner table? Speaker 1 (7:58) OK, so a memorable dish from my childhood is going to have to be a pan of scouse. Speaker 3 (8:04) I knew you were going to say that. You Speaker 1 (8:06) knew Speaker 3 (8:06) I was going to say it. You know what it is? It's stew. Remind me. Okay. Speaker 1 (8:09) It's stew, but it comes from Lapsgau, which traditionally, I think, if I've got it right, I know people think that it's kind of an Irish stew, which it is basically, but it comes from the sailors. Speaker 2 (8:22) Yeah. Speaker 1 (8:23) I think over in Norway, something like that. But then it was because Liverpool was a massive dock area, wasn't it? And I think it was brought over from then. I think, please, if I've got it wrong, someone will tell me. But that's what it is, Scouse, and it's basically stew and steak. Speaker 2 (8:37) Stew and steak? No, it's stew and steak. Speaker 1 (8:40) Stew Speaker 2 (8:40) and steak. Sorry. Speaker 1 (8:41) Stew and steak. That's my accent. Stew and steak, that's in the pan for hours. Speaker 3 (8:46) Yeah. Speaker 1 (8:46) Like hours. Yeah. And then it's potatoes, carrots, turnip, and that's basically it. It's the barley in it. No. No. What Speaker 2 (8:58) are you eating it with? Speaker 1 (8:59) Would you have it with bread? Oh, bread. Yeah. Oh, Speaker 2 (9:02) okay, nice. Speaker 1 (9:03) Well, you can put other, it's sacrilege, but you can put other stuff in it because our Vera used to make a gorgeous one. Our Vera Scouse was the best. Who's Vera? Vera was my auntie Vera, God bless her. And then you'd have it with like. Speaker 1 (9:16) What's the red cabbage stuff? Yeah. Pickled cabbage. Pickled cabbage. Speaker 3 (9:20) Oh, I love that. Speaker 1 (9:21) Or beetroot. Oh, beetroot from the jar. Pickled beet. Yeah, from the jar. From the jar, yeah. Delicious. It was gorgeous. Speaker 3 (9:28) Yeah, a bit of sharp with it. So Speaker 1 (9:30) now today we have it, but, you know, occasionally I make it, but make it with some mushrooms and things like that. Speaker 3 (9:34) Do you make it? Speaker 1 (9:35) I was taught how to make it quite properly, yeah. Speaker 2 (9:39) By Vera? Speaker 1 (9:39) By Vera, me ma. Me ma was a good cook. But our Vera Scouse was the best. But then me Nana's was the best. Speaker 3 (9:47) Was your mum from Liverpool? Yeah, yeah, they're all from Speaker 1 (9:49) Liverpool. They were all... My mum's mother was from Irish descent and her dad was from Scotland. Speaker 3 (9:56) And where's your dad from? Speaker 1 (9:58) My biological father, his dad was from Jamaica and I think his mum was from... I think their history goes back to Norway, so I'm a thoroughbred mother. Wow. Have you Speaker 3 (10:09) done your DNA? Speaker 1 (10:11) Yeah, I did, yeah. Yeah, it's a bit mental. Is it? I can't remember all the bits and bolts. But you've got a Speaker 3 (10:16) lot of... Speaker 1 (10:17) Yeah, from all over the place. All over the place. Massively Irish, a big chunk, most of it's Irish, a little bit of Scottish, and then a lot of African. I think it was something like 21 % African. I think, or 20 % African. It's a shame Anna isn't here because she knows all them details. That's Speaker 3 (10:35) your Speaker 1 (10:35) wife? That's the boss. And Speaker 3 (10:37) where was your stepdad from? Speaker 1 (10:40) His father was from Africa. Yeah. But obviously like second generation or third generation in Liverpool. So Pops' dad was also from, you know, he was black and Pops' mixed race as well. Speaker 2 (10:52) So who was around the dinner table? Do you have two brothers? Speaker 1 (10:56) Back in the day, it would have been me and my mum. Because my nana passed away when I was 14. So a lot of the time it was food at my nana's house. And me and my mum lived at my nana's for a while. So Speaker 2 (11:08) it would Speaker 1 (11:08) be like, the other thing with my nana's was, my nana's was like the haven. Do Speaker 2 (11:14) you Speaker 1 (11:14) know what I mean? It was the base where everyone come and she'd just make masses of food. The best thing as well she used to make was them, what are they called? Like ribs, but you put them in a pan. You put them in there. Remember them pressure cooker things? Yeah, yeah, Speaker 3 (11:26) yeah. You Speaker 1 (11:27) put the ribs in it, bacon back ribs. Speaker 3 (11:29) Bacon back ribs. Like big Speaker 1 (11:30) strips of them. Speaker 3 (11:31) Oh, right. And then you get them really soft and then they all fall off Speaker 1 (11:34) the Speaker 3 (11:34) bone. So you'd Speaker 1 (11:35) have that with mash and peas. Speaker 3 (11:38) How delicious. It Speaker 1 (11:40) was gorgeous. But that smell. I just remember that smell in me Nana's kitchen all the time. Speaker 2 (11:45) Yeah. Speaker 1 (11:45) That reminds me. very much so. That salty kind of bacon smell. Salty Speaker 2 (11:49) bacon. And so... By the way, I'm just going to be over there finishing off because I know he's hungry. Yeah. So you keep on asking the questions. I Speaker 3 (11:57) will keep on Speaker 2 (11:57) asking the questions. Speaker 3 (11:57) Also, your Speaker 2 (11:58) mum was a Speaker 3 (11:58) social worker, wasn't she? Yeah, she was. So is mum. I'm a social worker, yeah. Well, I'm a bit old now. I just do odds and ends. What did your... Who did your mum work with? My Speaker 1 (12:07) mum started off as a... We went away... We went to Holland for a little bit, me and my mum, when it was just me and my mum. What, Speaker 3 (12:13) to live? Speaker 1 (12:14) Yeah, we went there for a while. She... went to study over there for a little bit and I think she did some Montessori stuff as well when she was over there and we lived in a place called Den Bosch just outside Amsterdam. We were there for, I think we were there for a year and a half. How Speaker 3 (12:29) interesting. Yeah, Speaker 1 (12:30) it was wonderful. Just to Speaker 3 (12:31) move there. It Speaker 1 (12:31) was really wonderful and we lived there for a while and embraced the culture and the people. I used to be able to speak. Look, my nickname, where I'm from in Kirby, a lot of people know me as Dutchie. Speaker 3 (12:45) Dutchie. Oh, because you went to live in Holland. Because I went to live in Speaker 1 (12:47) Holland. My mate David MacMarlis' name was. I came back home and went back to school and he went, where have you been? I was like, oh, we were over in Holland. And he was like, Dutchie. And then that was my nickname. Did everyone sing Speaker 2 (12:57) past the Dutchie? Yeah, I got that quite Speaker 1 (12:59) a lot. Yeah, which is very apt. It's a great song. It's a great song. Speaker 2 (13:02) It's a banger, Speaker 1 (13:02) isn't it? Yeah, it's an absolute banger. So we came back and my mum was a nursery nurse. She worked in Canterville Farm. And she trained and trained and trained and then, you know, eventually she became a social worker. Speaker 3 (13:12) Which football team do you support? Speaker 1 (13:14) Liverpool. Speaker 3 (13:15) Yeah, even though you've been to Holland, you've got Norway, you've got all different bits. And mum, Speaker 1 (13:21) the Speaker 2 (13:21) sad thing is you can't say shit because we're so shit at the moment. You can't even come back with anything. Who Speaker 3 (13:26) are you? Speaker 2 (13:26) Who am Speaker 3 (13:26) I new? I come from Speaker 1 (13:27) Manchester. Speaker 3 (13:28) Do you ever go to football matches? When I Speaker 1 (13:30) get a chance, yeah. I bet they give you like Speaker 3 (13:33) VIP, you sit in the director's box. Speaker 1 (13:35) No, it's very nice. And Speaker 3 (13:36) people Speaker 1 (13:36) all Speaker 3 (13:37) bow to you. No, no, don't be Speaker 1 (13:38) ridiculous. They look after us. We get to go in the Legends Lounge. Oh, the Legends. So I've been very fortunate to meet John Barnes. who's an absolute icon. He's one of my heroes, still is one of my heroes. So I get to take the family, which is lovely. But you Speaker 3 (13:54) live in Leicestershire? Speaker 1 (13:57) Yeah, we live in Leicestershire. Speaker 3 (13:57) Why? Speaker 1 (13:58) Well, Hannah's originally from Leicestershire. Speaker 3 (14:01) Okay. Speaker 1 (14:01) So when we were, we used to live in Beckenham. You did, eh? Yeah, we used to live in Beckenham. We actually lived in what was then called Penge, but I believe now it's Ponsche. Speaker 3 (14:11) Oh, Ponsche. I believe it's Ponsche Speaker 1 (14:13) now. It's changed, gone a little bit up market. Speaker 3 (14:15) Yeah. Speaker 1 (14:15) We lived there for a long time. Why? Well, we met in London years ago, the two of us. We met at drama school. We met 33 years ago. Speaker 3 (14:26) Wow. Speaker 1 (14:27) And this is New Cross here, isn't it? Speaker 3 (14:29) Yeah. Speaker 1 (14:30) So I've got a little bit of a... Look, we were... What's a nice way of... So we were friends with lovely benefits. Why Speaker 3 (14:39) didn't you want to come here? Because I was Speaker 1 (14:41) shit. At that time. Speaker 3 (14:42) Oh, you were shit at commitment? Speaker 1 (14:44) Yes. Speaker 3 (14:44) Okay, fine. I had Speaker 1 (14:45) commitment issues. And it was just one of them things, you know. And look, we were both young. We were only, I was 20, she was 19. And I'd recently just moved from home. So you didn't Speaker 3 (14:58) want to commit Speaker 1 (14:59) to... No, but then what happened was she went to Spain. Speaker 3 (15:03) Yeah. Speaker 1 (15:04) And she was there for a little bit. And then she met this fella. Speaker 3 (15:08) Oh, my God. That sort of... And this is where... Speaker 2 (15:11) Clarify Speaker 3 (15:11) things Speaker 1 (15:12) for you. This Speaker 2 (15:12) anger that comes out in some of your characters... Do I look angry? Is this from this Spanish bloke? Speaker