Your Culture Isn’t Broken—It’s Working Exactly as Designed | Abi Adamson (S4 E19)
Sunday SoulDay
Abi Adamson joins Sunday Soul Day to discuss how workplace culture is organically grown rather than artificially built, drawing from her journey as a working-class
Key takeaways
- Abi Adamson argues that workplace culture is not built but grown, requiring leaders to stop monopolizing cultural ownership and instead empower every employee as a 'cultural gardener.'
- She introduces the SERN framework (Soil, Exposure, Roots, Nutrients) to diagnose organizational health, emphasizing that equity must replace equality when distributing opportunities and resources.
Main topics
- Workplace culture transformation
- Socioeconomic class vs. diversity metrics
Notable quotes
"Culture belongs to us all."
Conclusion
Listeners gain a practical, metaphor-driven framework for diagnosing toxic
Transcript preview
Speaker 1 (0:00) For many of us, going further isn't a choice. It's a feeling we can't ignore because ambition has a way of outgrowing where it began. Speaker 1 (0:11) Turning dreams into direction. Speaker 1 (0:17) Every journey brings us closer to the life we imagine. Speaker 1 (0:23) So, where will your journey take you? Etihad, beyond borders. Speaker 2 (0:29) Welcome back for another episode of Sunday Soul Day, fueling your mind, body, and soul with soulful conversations and life-changing insights. Today, I'm joined by Abby Adamson, workplace culture transformation expert, author of Culture Blooming, Nurturing Workplaces Where People Grow, TEDx speaker, and founder of The Culture Partnership. Abby has spent more than a decade working with organizations including Spotify, Google, Sony Music, and the World Economic Forum, helping leaders understand what's really happening beneath the surface of workplace culture. Speaker 2 (1:07) Today, we're talking all about who really owns culture, what burnout and disengagement may be telling us about the environments we've created, and what leaders must cultivate within themselves before they can create workplaces where people truly flourish. Let's welcome her to the show. Speaker 1 (1:26) Welcome to Sunday Soul Day, Abby. Speaker 3 (1:32) Thanks for the invitation. Speaker 2 (1:34) Yes. Thank you for saying yes. I am so happy when people answer my LinkedIn messages. I know you get a ton of them. You could have said yes or no, and you happened to say yes. So I thank you for that. Speaker 3 (1:46) Of course. Thank you. I'm always incredibly flattered. I do cherry pick the one that I go on. Not because I think I'm anything great, but just more because it's always nice to, even on certain people that. may not agree with on socio-political stuff. I think that discourse is important, but also it's the kind of person that, you know, you are both there to listen, to understand rather than listen, to respond. So it's always, even if someone is not aligned with me particularly, I still try and vibe. But obviously I knew that we were aligned in a way. I checked you out, you checked me out. I was like, I'm coming on. So thank you. Speaker 2 (2:23) I love it. I am so excited. You have an incredible background and we'll dive all into that. But I would love the audience to get to know you a little bit better if they haven't come across your work. Abby, before getting into, you know, culture blooming and all the things that you're doing right now, you know, I'd love to just start with the person behind it all. Because I know there's a story behind this. So who is Abby beyond the consultant, the author, TEDx speaker, workplace consultant, the expert that you are? You know, what parts of your own journey shaped the way that you see people in the work that you do today? Speaker 3 (3:04) Beyond those things, I was always the class clown. I actually, I think this might be the very first time I'm going to say this out loud, Demisha. So Speaker 2 (3:15) your Speaker 3 (3:16) listeners might be the first to hear this, but I actually wanted to be a comedian growing up. Yeah. It's just I suffer from terrible stage fright. And I really wanted, I love the... I love the ability to be able to make people laugh because not necessarily as in like, I mean like comedian, like Eddie Murphy, ha ha ha, get on stage type of comedian, like death jam comedy type of thing. So, but I went to film school. So I started off as a, as a entertainment baby, you know, film school baby, that kind of background. And I guess being exposed to that world shaped the person you see today. I think it would be reckless for me not to talk about being the firstborn daughter. I stress daughter because firstborn sons, they have very different experiences. But being the firstborn daughter of an immigrant household, you know, being born in Nigeria and raised in the UK, born in Lagos, raised in London. As the firstborn daughter, it changes a lot about how you see yourself and how you see the world and also how you navigate the world, especially through education. So, yeah, the class clown loves all things film, big film girl, who just really cares about people. Yeah, I think that sums me up. Speaker 2 (4:47) That is amazing. I did not know that about you, even though I do find you hilarious because we've talked and all we did was laugh on the first call. So that is amazing. I did not know that about you. I don't Speaker 3 (5:00) think I've ever said that out loud. You might actually be the very first person. I don't think I've ever mentioned it. So it's just something I don't really talk about. But yeah, just whilst... I don't know why I chose to share it now, but yeah. I'm so grateful Speaker 2 (5:11) you did. Yeah, yeah. No, I love that. Well, and talk to us about your journey because, I mean, as a, you know, firstborn daughter into an immigrant family, living in London, I mean, that, and then coming to America, like that already in itself is a mouthful. Like what was your, you know, experience like just navigating the work world? Speaker 3 (5:36) I know this sounds really ridiculous, but being, or maybe it doesn't sound ridiculous, but being British means that. My world was racialized, but not racialized the way Americans have it. It's very different. Growing up in the UK, we don't have the right to bear arms, for example. We didn't have a Green Book. We didn't have segregation. We didn't have Jim Crow laws. Yes, we have race and identity politics, but it's very different. So I grew up in a very working class family, in a working... class part of West London. I'm very proud of my roots, both racially as a Black woman, nationally as a Brit, ethnically as a Nigerian, because those three things are very different and those three things shape. shaped everything. So when I went to film school, being the daughter of immigrants, being the firstborn child, it was very much go to school, get the right grades, go to a great school, not just go to school, go to a great educational institution because, you know, certain names of institutions opens up certain doors. You know, when you tell someone you are Ivy League educated or Oxford educated or Russell Group educated, those open certain doors. So it was go to, you know, a great university, work very hard. and you will be rewarded. This was the dream that was sold, right? Speaker 2 (7:02) And Speaker 3 (7:03) then I had a very rude awakening after I graduated of, oh, I worked very hard. I went to school. I did all those things. Why am I not being rewarded? Why is it that mediocrity is being... celebrated over meritocracy because I'm here on merit. So why does that person, why is that person getting the opportunities? Why are they going on the job interviews? Why are they getting offered these jobs that they clearly don't want or clearly can't do? versus someone like me. And that was where I started understanding the world of work. There was no safety net for me, Demetria. I fell to the ground with a very large and painful bump. Very painful. There was no safety net. I had no idea what was waiting for me on the other side of hard work, on the other side of... Speaker 3 (8:03) just do do what you're supposed to and you'll be rewarded so that those early years of you know entering the world of work is what then shaped everything that you see or know about me today Speaker 2 (8:20) Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. You just gave me chills when you were talking because that is what a lot of people of color in general navigate, you know, and they have such difficulty putting it into words, you know, and they may or may not know the reasoning behind certain things, but at the end of the day, their experience is their experience. And it's very challenging navigating that, you know, for myself included. I thought hard work, showing up, doing everything I was supposed to do would be enough. And it was not. You know, I had to learn how to advocate for myself, how to speak up, you know, how to even be seen because I was so used to not being seen and just tucking my head down and doing the work. And so, so many of my early years was unlearning what I was told, you know? And so I'm curious, like, How did you not like not really navigate that, but how did you learn from that? Like, how did you shift that, you know, all of those learnings to show up the way that you show up now? Speaker 3 (9:31) I, and I'm pretty sure many children of immigrants, that's wherever you are across the diaspora, whether that's African, whether that's Caribbean, whether that's Arab, whether that's Latino, whether that's Asian, South Asian, East Asian, across the diaspora, right? We're talking about the global majority are going to understand me when I say this of. Our parents have a certain colonial mentality. And the moment that bubble popped for me was I was having a conversation with my then CEO, who was a nice enough guy, you know, I have no real qualms against him, you know, a white man. So obviously he saw things very differently to me, but he was always incredibly respectful. But one day he said, you know, with his chest and in such a proud way, oh my gosh, we're such a, no, I say this because, no, I don't even say it in a way to laugh at him, but just because this is, you know, I had to have a moment of what just happened. But he just said, oh, you know, Abby, we were talking about something. And he was like, yes, you know, that's why we're so invested in diversity and inclusion. And I remember pushing back saying, no, we're not. Bearing in mind, I was the only, not even necessarily because I was the only Black person in the company. That wasn't even the reason why I said no or not. Because before we talk about race and even before we talk about gender, both the United States and especially the UK is built on a class system. So socioeconomic background is paramount. Your race, your gender, disability, age, all of that now comes in after class, right? And that's a hill I'm going to die on, right? I wasn't even pushing back because of race. I was just like, no, we're not. And he said, what do you mean? And I said. Let's call him Joe Bloggs. I said Joe. Every single intern, and this is in my book, every single intern that you have brought into this company has been from your child's private school. Speaker 3 (11:28) So we are talking about the children of judges, of politicians, of psychiatrists, of surgeons, of pilots, of lawyers, of business owners, CEOs, CMOs, CFOs, LMNOPQRS, all of that, right? We're talking about These interns, they're going to be okay once they leave school. They will land on their feet because they have parents that are already in the higher echelons of society that will give them a leg up, even if they're not smart enough, even if they don't have the grades, because they have the right connections. So no, we are not diverse and inclusive because all I ever see come through those doors are rich kids. that was the moment things for me changed. That was actually the moment everything changed in my career because number one, I thought I was going to be fired because I was like, this was my CEO. So I thought he was going to be like, well, goodbye. Thank you. But to his credit, he said to me, well, what do you suggest we do? You know, he went away for a few days and came back. He said, what do you reckon we should do? And I said. Put me in charge of hiring. Speaker 3 (12:37) Put me in charge of who comes through those doors. By the time I had left that business, I'd hired, we had an open plant office. By the time we'd left that business, I had hired around 68 % of the workforce. Speaker 1 (12:55) That Speaker 2 (12:55) is unbelievable. To his credit, shout out to him. We're going to call him Joe. Shout out to Joe. But that's amazing because, you know, I've been in situations where I've spoken up like that and been terminated. Speaker 3 (13:07) So have I. That's why, to be honest, I had my... my suitcase already packed the boxes back exactly my desk was already empty I was like let me just take my pens let me just take all my stuff because I'm you know I'm clearly leaving but no no no no he was like no I'm I said he said so what do you want to do I said let me go back and get well we would I already had a bachelor's degree obviously going to film school so I was like I don't need to do another three four year degree Let me go and get an associate's degree in HR. The company paid for it. He said, we'll pay for it. Will you be able to sign a contract saying that you will stay at least 18 months after you finish? And I said, you know what? That is a fair trade-off. Let's do this. And that's Speaker 2 (13:55) how I... Shout out to him. I mean, it's so rare. It's so rare. That's Speaker 3 (14:01) why, Speaker 2 (14:01) you know? And the fact that he was open, it speaks volumes. But shout out to you. more importantly for speaking up and and I think that is those moments where you know it's like we could have just nodded and agreed you know like most people do because they want to keep their job you know yeah but I love that you spoke up I mean and yeah Speaker 3 (14:23) that was a pivotal moment in my career I think absolutely Speaker 2 (14:27) I Speaker 3 (14:28) think that obviously the the consultant part and all of that that came from that was born from that moment of seeing things internally that i mean that that workplace wasn't perfect by any means but certainly being able to be like oh i can At the risk of sounding like I'm singing a number from Hamilton, I can be in the room where it happens, right? I need to be in the room where it happens because what I saw was an imbalance of privilege, of power, of access. And I thought, well, if the same people have the power, have the influence, have the privilege, have the access. You need to be in those rooms because the only way you're ever going to get people who look like you in positions that matter, in positions of influence, is if you are in the rooms where you can hire them into. Speaker 2 (15:22) Absolutely. And who you hire shapes your culture. it, it, and as much as, you know, and I, and I know you've been on this side, so, you know, it's like a lot of, you know, CEOs, founders will be like, you know, I really want to focus on the culture and, you know, do all these things with the culture. Right. Yeah. And they have these really great dreams, but then they hire people that don't fit those, you know? And so I'm like, you do know that the people that you hire. naturally shape your culture because Speaker 3 (15:57) affinity bias is so wired to many people and and you know i don't want to i don't want to excuse that behavior because not all biases are unconscious but for the sake of this conversation let's let's let's go there it's i don't i've worked with you know as a consultant i've worked with leaders who just don't this it's so They're on autopilot. it's just so like like me bias you know that that you know affinity bias of oh they went to the same school oh they know certain like again this is in my book of I remember when I was helping an organization and um they were like oh you know we're inclusive look at our talent pipeline and you know what to be fair their pipeline was Again, gender diverse and... it was okay racially it wasn't it wasn't the best but it certainly was not the worst right then I again I had to say to them but all of these I don't understand half the language that you're using here and and I remember one of the higher management was like oh this is like a I don't know I didn't go to an Ivy League school but it was like this is like an Ivy League term I said okay so the only people the only candidates that will understand that terminology are those who have gone to an Ivy League where does that leave 95 % of everyone else. And again, I'm like, when people think about diversity, they think race and gender a lot. But it's so much bigger than that. It is so much bigger. And as someone, I said, who grew up in a working class family, socioeconomic background is really important to me. You know, what do we do with people who don't have access to those fancy words, who don't have a summer house in... Speaker 3 (17:42) the Hamptons who don't have, you know, skiing outfits in the south of France? What do we do? Do they not