Selects: How Bras Work

Stuff You Should Know

This episode traces the complex history of the bra from ancient athletic supports and medieval breast bags to its modern iteration as a highly engineered garment. The hosts explore how societal norms,

Key takeaways

• Lumen Chapman filed the first modern over-the-shoulder bra patent in 1863, though his design did not immediately dominate the market.
• Mary Phelps Jacobs created the first modern bra from silk handkerchiefs and ribbon in 1914 before selling the patent for just $1,500 to Warner Brothers Corset Company.

Main topics

• Historical evolution of undergarments
• Bra engineering and manufacturing complexity

Notable quotes

"Brassieres must do more than fit a multitude of bodies. They must accommodate the same body as it changes through the monthly cycle and the life cycle."

Conclusion

The episode demonstrates how the bra functions as both a practical garment and a cultural

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) This is an iHeart Podcast. Speaker 3 (0:02) Guaranteed human. Lisa, tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Iwano. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa DiGiulio, the old one, Speaker 8 (0:17) which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now Speaker 3 (0:24) in my 30s, being the founder of New Shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you Speaker 8 (0:32) get your podcasts. Speaker 8 (0:38) If anyone wanted to commit a murder, up here would be the greatest place in the world to hide the body. But someone will find it. He acted Speaker 3 (0:47) friendly. He talked friendly. He sounded friendly. Speaker 8 (0:51) They all knew that I did the scary boogie stuff. And they said, maybe she'll find out where this girl is. I saw him violent. Speaker 4 (1:00) Backhanded her. Pow! Speaker 4 (1:04) Listen to The Devil's Quarry Season 2 in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 4 (1:19) On recent episodes of the Questlove Show, I chatted with JoJo about her music and Wallo267 about his story and everything in between. Speaker 7 (1:26) Don't invite me to karaoke. I'm going to make it weird. Someone's going to try to sing Leave Get Out or Too Little Too Late or Baby It's You. Oh, no. And I'm going to be like, Speaker 4 (1:34) okay, cool. Check out my conversation with JoJo, Wallo267, and more on the Questlove Show. Listen to the Questlove Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 1 (1:47) Peace. Hey everybody, it's Josh, and yeah, we did an episode on bras. What of it? Yeah, we're two dudes, but we're carrying on a long-standing tradition, we found out. Because it turns out that just about every bra in history, and then go back pretty far, was invented by a man. And that includes the guy who filed the patent for the first modern bra. This also explains why, until very recently, bras were profoundly uncomfortable and usually had some sort of lace or something. And maybe were see-through. That's neither here nor there, though, because in this episode, we cover everything there is to know about bras, and I feel like we came out of it as better people. I'll leave it to you to decide how we did. Either way, enjoy this episode from 2020 on bras. Speaker 3 (2:38) Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Speaker 6 (2:48) Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. And, um... Speaker 1 (2:55) It's just us again. Just us. Speaker 2 (2:59) We've lost Jerry. I'm in the studio like I was on the last one, but it's still a ghost studio. There's no one here. Speaker 6 (3:06) Sure. Except for Tommy Chong and the radio, or the record player, right? Sure. Good. Let's get that joke. We said that we have somebody poised to, like, scratch the needle off the record several episodes ago. Yeah, I remember that. And that it was Tommy Chong whose job it was to do that now. That's right. Good callback. Speaker 1 (3:33) Thank you. Should we talk bras? Yeah, we're talking bras, man, which I appreciate it when we do stuff like this, Speaker 6 (3:39) episodes like this, because we have to try harder because we're men, you know? Speaker 2 (3:44) Sure. The usual. It's the only time we have to try harder in life. Speaker 1 (3:49) Sadly, that is kind of true. But we haven't shied Speaker 6 (3:54) away from topics that have very little to do with us, like corsets. We did one on how corsets work. Do you remember that? Totally did. A whole episode on corsets. Jeez. We did one on female puberty. Speaker 2 (4:10) Yeah. Foot Speaker 6 (4:11) binding. Speaker 1 (4:12) Yeah. We've done a lot of them. So this is just one in the same. A three is a lot when it comes to this kind of stuff. Speaker 2 (4:21) Yeah, no, I'm just kidding. And we did mention doing one on menstruation not too long ago, and we got a bunch of supportive emails saying, like, yes, guys, please do that. Like, there's no reason why you shouldn't. Speaker 6 (4:31) I've been menstruating for 50 years, and I still don't understand it. Please explain. Speaker 2 (4:36) Yeah, exactly. Speaker 6 (4:37) So, actually, we have not gotten that email. Although we wouldn't know if we had, you know? Speaker 2 (4:44) Yeah, because our email server's down. Sorry if you've been bounced, everyone. Speaker 1 (4:48) Yeah, we're working on it. Speaker 2 (4:50) Yep. Speaker 1 (4:50) So we're talking bras, which is short for brassiere, which doesn't have a definite origin Speaker 6 (4:57) as far as we know. We think that it came about in the 20th century, early 20th Speaker 1 (5:02) century. I think it first appeared in print in 1907 or something like that. And in French, it means one of two things. It means either arm covering, which is, I think, derived from medieval armor, French medieval armor. Don't know. And then the Speaker 6 (5:17) other thing Speaker 1 (5:17) I saw was a child's vest. Speaker 6 (5:20) Which that to me is just lovely. If that's what they're trying to say with the bra, that it's like a child-sized vest that you wear over your breasts, I love that idea. Speaker 2 (5:34) You want to know something funny? Yes. For the first 10 minutes researching this, this was put together by our pal Dave Ruse. I kept thinking, why is Ruse, why does he keep talking about brasseries? Why does he keep talking about Speaker 6 (5:46) quaint Speaker 2 (5:47) little French restaurants? That's funny. It's very close. It looks like brassiere. It does. Well, Speaker 6 (5:52) yeah, yeah. Yeah, it does. I think if that I was just a little further toward the end. We would be talking about casual French restaurants. The TGI Fridays of France. Well, that's better than my Speaker 1 (6:07) experience. For the first 30 minutes, I was researching nothing but car bras. Oh, God. Speaker 2 (6:14) The LeBras. Remember those? Speaker 1 (6:16) No. Speaker 2 (6:17) I remember the car. I think there was a LeBras, which was one of the big popular models at the time for like Porsches and stuff like that. Speaker 6 (6:26) I don't remember that at all. Speaker 2 (6:28) You know, my dad very stupidly bought a Porsche when I was in high school. Speaker 6 (6:32) Oh, Speaker 2 (6:32) no, with that food truck money? With that big public school teacher money. He went out and bought a Porsche and surprised my mom and the rest of the family with a sweet Porsche 911. Like Speaker 1 (6:48) a new one? Speaker 2 (6:49) That no one was allowed to, like, breathe on. No, it wasn't new. Doesn't matter. He very quickly went out, and this is very my dad, and, like, the next week he had, like, the Porsche Izod, the Porsche glasses, the Porsche hat. And we didn't have that for very long. I think I drove it one time, like, around the block, and he was like, and they were not fun cars to drive. They were very difficult to drive. Speaker 6 (7:16) Yeah, yeah. They're all about being as one with the road. And if the road's not so great, then it's not very fun. Speaker 2 (7:23) Yeah, but I will say, piggybacking on this story, I've been watching the TV show Red Oaks. Have you ever seen it? Speaker 1 (7:30) I have never even heard of it. Speaker 2 (7:32) I hadn't either. It was an Amazon show that ran for three seasons about sort of like Caddyshacky. It's a kid who works at a tennis club in the 80s. And a very, very 80s show. And the drug dealer drives this really sweet Porsche 928. Remember those? Is Speaker 1 (7:49) that Speaker 6 (7:50) the Speaker 2 (7:50) pointy one? Speaker 1 (7:51) It looks kind of like a Speaker 2 (7:52) Lotus Speaker 6 (7:52) Esprit. Speaker 2 (7:53) Yeah, well, it's, yeah, the Risky Business car. Speaker 6 (7:55) Okay, I never saw that movie. Speaker 2 (7:58) Oh, really? Speaker 6 (7:58) Yeah. Speaker 2 (7:59) Oh, dude, you need to see Risky Business. Great movie. Speaker 1 (8:02) I've got a list going. Speaker 2 (8:04) It's really good. But anyway, the 9-11 gets all the headlines, but that 9-28 was so sweet, and I was like, man, I wonder what you could get an 80s 9-28 for. I bet it's not that much. Speaker 7 (8:20) Oh, yeah. And I looked it up. Speaker 2 (8:21) How much? Well, there was a range. Like you can get one that's in not great shape for like $12,000 or up to $60,000 for a cherry low mileage one. Speaker 1 (8:30) Right. I think that's pretty much the same with all vintage cars. I was looking at Pinto station wagons. Speaker 2 (8:37) And we're at different ends of the spectrum. Speaker 1 (8:39) There's about Speaker 6 (8:39) four or five mint condition Pinto station wagons in existence that are really expensive. Speaker 1 (8:48) The rest are Speaker 6 (8:49) exactly what you would expect. That's funny. So we're talking bras today, obviously. We just wanted to get rid of anybody who might benefit from listening to this. So we talked about Porsches and stuff. Speaker 2 (9:03) Yeah, so the bras, the modern bra has only been around for about 150 years. And Dave makes a really good point of the fact that this thing that's only been around for 150 years has been one of the most complicated garments in the history of the world, I think. Speaker 6 (9:20) Yeah, not necessarily in its design or manufacture, but in its relation to society as a whole. Yeah, totally. So you've got apparently a... Complete and utter lack of bras. But as women started to play sports a little more, it was okay for them to wear bras, I think, in the 20th century. And in fact, it was a woman who invented the sports bra. Two women, actually, I think in 1977. They invented what was called the jog bra from two jock straps that they put together. But, you know, it's kind of a funny, cute little origin story. But they ended up, like, revolutionizing sports. Like, women were allowed to play sports. I think Title IX had been passed a couple of years before this. Speaker 1 (10:12) But the fact is you couldn't play sports because there wasn't much support out there for you. So to invent the sports Speaker 6 (10:19) bra was tantamount to introducing women in practice into sports. It's pretty huge. Speaker 2 (10:27) Yeah, it is. And the history of the bra also incorporates... Speaker 2 (10:33) It incorporates societal norms and how they change. So did the bra. How women changed over the years and their own rights over their own comfort and their own fashion. Taking that back. And it really kind of everything in between. The bra is a very complicated garment and undergarment. Speaker 6 (10:55) It is. It is very complicated. What I was heartened to see, though, is that today, apparently, and for the last several years, it's been all about comfort and realness and finding like a bra that fits. And apparently, I was very surprised to find this, that that has not been the norm. That, especially in America, at least, bra makers have made like... X number of sizes, and if your breasts didn't happen to fit that bra, that was on you. There's something wrong with your body. Because these are the standard sizes and this is what we're selling. And so women have for a very long time had, a lot of women have had bras that just do not fit them because they just can't find them in America. And that's kind of led to this revolution in bra making and also bra sizing that has allowed for women to have much better, much more comfortable fits with bras. And I'm just glad for that. Speaker 2 (11:56) Yeah, me too. The average American woman supposedly owns six bras. There are officially, there are 20 different styles of bras that you can buy. And there's this great quote here. It's from a book called Uplift, colon, The Bra in America by Jane Farrell Beck and Colleen Gao. And this sort of really pinpoints the... what you're trying to do with a bra and why it's so tough to get a great fit and one that really works for everybody. Brasseries, oh wait. Brassiers must do more than fit a multitude of bodies. They must accommodate the same body as it changes through the monthly cycle and the life cycle. They must provide for movement of the torso and arms in many directions without chafing or binding, without slipping out of position. And as if that were not enough, brassieres must retain their own structure throughout multiple wearings and launderings, must not abrade in contact with clothing, must remain, as a rule, inconspicuous beneath the outer clothing while harmonizing with the desired silhouette, and must be priced to sell to many customers. It's no wonder that hundreds of attempts have been made to design the ideal breast supporter over the past 140 years. Speaker 6 (13:15) Yeah. Speaker 2 (13:15) It says it all. Speaker 6 (13:17) It really does. It is a lot more complicated than, say, boxer shorts. Speaker 2 (13:22) Yeah, those are easy. Speaker 6 (13:23) So there's also a lot of money to be made in it. I saw just the sports bra. industry alone is worth like $7 billion a year. There's a lot of money made from bras. And so as a result, about 600 million of them are made every year. There's about 26,000 different bra patterns in existence. When you said 20 different styles, that's like racerback or demicup, that like large category of bra. As far as like different... patterns and types of bras. There's tens of thousands of them. Oh, sure. Speaker 1 (13:57) And each one has a lot of different moving parts. I saw 40 different parts from straps, clasps, Speaker 6 (14:05) underwire, all that stuff. And that it takes months and months of dozens of people working together to create a new bra. It's not just like a new thing. So there's a lot of thought and time and effort and money. going into bra production. And then from what I've seen, there's virtually an equal amount of time and effort and thought going into bra purchasing too. From what I'm seeing, it's like not the easiest thing in the world to buy a bra if you want the bra to be one that is your new favorite. Speaker 2 (14:40) Yeah, did you have any flashbacks of young Josh while you were researching this, like Sears catalog type of stuff? Sure, Speaker 6 (14:47) practicing. Practicing unhooking bras by wearing them myself. Speaker 2 (14:52) Or simply, you know, the 80s was a generally more naive moment in time before the Internet. Oh, Speaker 6 (15:00) yeah. Speaker 2 (15:00) Seeing a lady in a bra leaning against a tree was a pretty big deal. Yes, it really was. In Speaker 1 (15:06) 1983, Speaker 2 (15:07) yeah. Should we take a break and then dive into the history? Speaker 1 (15:10) Yeah, let's. I think it's a good idea. Speaker 2 (15:13) Okay. We'll be right back with a history of the brasserie right after this. Speaker 3 (15:34) Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. Oh my God, Lexi, we have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Iwanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisi DiGiulio, the old one, which Speaker 8 (15:49) means we have wildly different