EPISODE 100: Don't Ever Stop Dreaming

Strangers on a Bench

In this milestone 100th episode, Tom Rosenthal interviews a stranger on a park bench about her life journey from Poland to England. The conv

Key takeaways

• The guest lived through martial law in Poland as a child and witnessed political activism firsthand.
• Her father was an active participant in the Solidarność movement which helped end communism.

Main topics

• Life under Polish Communism
• Textile design in India

Notable quotes

Don't ever stop dreaming.

Conclusion

A moving testament to human resilience and the beauty found in unexpec

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:03) Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? Speaker 2 (0:09) I'm making Speaker 3 (0:10) a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want Speaker 1 (0:21) to Speaker 3 (0:21) give it a go? Speaker 1 (0:22) You're from the BBC. Speaker 3 (0:47) I'm not from the BBC. Oh, you don't have to hold this, but you can just drop it. Yeah, Speaker 1 (0:52) no, I'm curious. I mean, you can Speaker 3 (0:53) hold it if you want. Make sure I don't Speaker 1 (0:55) steal it from you. Speaker 3 (0:56) You can. We haven't had a theft yet. I quite like the idea of someone just running down the beach. A kit was stolen. And that's the last of the podcast. And I was just shouting no. Have you ever stolen anything? Speaker 1 (1:08) Of course. What? Sweets, obviously. Ah, Speaker 3 (1:12) that's classic. Anything more than sweets? Speaker 1 (1:15) I went to somebody else's orchard and stole pears and apples, raspberries. Speaker 3 (1:20) Somebody else's orchard? Oh, raspberries. Speaker 1 (1:22) What a Speaker 3 (1:23) plentiful orchard. Speaker 1 (1:24) Nice stuff. Was this Speaker 3 (1:25) recently? Speaker 1 (1:26) No. Speaker 3 (1:27) No. Do you wish you still had the stealing energy in your life? Speaker 1 (1:33) OK, well, let's clarify stealing and wanting to have something which doesn't belong to you. I'm just reading a book on gardens and she says, well, earth and gardens should belong to everyone. Speaker 3 (1:45) So you're saying who owns anything? And what is ownership? Kind Speaker 1 (1:50) of. But I wouldn't steal this because it would really hurt you if you lost the equipment. I've had things stolen from me. Speaker 1 (1:59) What's been stolen from you? A couple of scooters. I lived in London for many years. It's like 20 something years ago I had this really cute Japanese Honda. It looked like a Barbie little thing on small wheels, 49cc. Speaker 1 (2:15) and it got stolen on a day and I lived in North London. I had an interview in central London, big portfolio to go around and a sewing machine. The scooter was big enough to hold my sewing machine between my legs. And then I reported it to the police station and later on they said like, well, we know who did it and we have this program for young people. You have to help me because I'm... Speaker 3 (2:42) Rehabilitation? Rehabilitation. Yeah, rehabilitation. Speaker 1 (2:45) And I said, yeah, go on. Yeah, let's do this. So they prepared me and said, look, you cannot be angry at this person. But let's just have a conversation and tell them about your day. And this young lad came over with the protection and stuff. Oh, so they brought around this person? Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. With Speaker 3 (3:02) the scooter as well? Speaker 1 (3:03) No. No, the scooter's gone. No, completely. I mean, it's Speaker 3 (3:06) a Speaker 1 (3:06) joyride. And I said... Did you really have fun on that night? And he said, yes, mum, well, no, mum. And I said, do you want to hear about my day? And he said, I lost a day, you know, figuring out what to do. I was a poor artist. Of course I couldn't afford to get a taxi and drive him with a sewing machine and a portfolio. You know, I could be your mum. Potentially, I could have been your mum. Just imagine your mother's day. If something like this happened to your mother. Speaker 1 (3:39) And he started crying. Speaker 3 (3:40) Oh, whoa. Speaker 1 (3:41) Well, because he probably had feelings for his mum. Speaker 3 (3:45) Well done by you there. Speaker 1 (3:47) Kind of. But that's how I, you know, I'm not a nasty person. I might do silly things to people, but I wouldn't. Never. There you go. Speaker 3 (4:07) There is actually a bit of a system to this whole interview thing. I hope there is. There better be a system. Yeah, do you like systems? A systems person? No, you hate them. You don't believe in possessions. I do. Speaker 1 (4:22) No, no, no. No, come on. I do. I do. I'm very systematic. I like order. I organise chaos. I work in India a lot and that's just like no system. And then I'm like, OK, I start and I finish and I have what I need. That's an example of organising chaos. And I'm freelance. Speaker 1 (4:43) person I work as a freelance. Speaker 3 (4:46) Same. You have Speaker 1 (4:48) to organize. Speaker 3 (4:49) I have Speaker 1 (4:50) to wake up. I have to come. I told you I have a meeting. Speaker 3 (4:53) That's my favorite job. That's Speaker 1 (4:54) one Speaker 3 (4:55) of my favorites. Fantastic. I think I saw a bit of your system earlier. Speaker 1 (5:00) How was my system? What did you see in my system? Because Speaker 3 (5:04) you were doing various things with your body by the sea. Speaker 1 (5:12) That's why I come here. You Speaker 3 (5:13) look like you're not, I haven't been watching you for hours, by the way, like you're doing what I consider kind of quite routine patterned behaviours. Speaker 1 (5:21) Oh, OK. Is Speaker 3 (5:22) that fair? Speaker 1 (5:24) Well, because I walk barefoot. If you take your shoes off, you'd be doing the same. Speaker 3 (5:28) Oh, God. You Speaker 1 (5:29) have to balance, you know, when you step on a pebble here and it hurts you, go like that. Speaker 3 (5:33) Yeah. So Speaker 1 (5:34) I'm not dancing. If I was in your trainers, I'd be just walking. Speaker 3 (5:42) So you ready for this first question? Speaker 1 (5:44) I guess, yeah. What Speaker 3 (5:45) do Speaker 1 (5:45) you think Speaker 3 (5:45) it's going to be? Speaker 1 (5:47) Just don't ask me what I do for a living. Speaker 3 (5:49) No, no, no. You know what? My least favourite question. Speaker 1 (5:52) Yeah, exactly. I hate that one. You are going to be... I'm never going Speaker 3 (5:54) to ask someone that. It is, do you have a favourite day of the week? Speaker 1 (6:00) Well, no and yes. Speaker 3 (6:03) Give me both. Speaker 1 (6:05) I like surprises and I'm very curious. So my favourite day in a week is a day when lots of things feel really nice. And I would say, oh, that's a favourite day. Speaker 3 (6:21) It's quite a non-committal answer there. There's no set favourite that just feels good. Speaker 1 (6:25) When you wake up, it's a Wednesday, Speaker 3 (6:27) this Speaker 1 (6:27) feels Speaker 3 (6:28) good. Speaker 1 (6:29) No, no, a day is favourite once the day is done. Speaker 3 (6:34) Oh, OK. Speaker 1 (6:35) So it's the experience of that day. Speaker 3 (6:37) Yeah. But there's not one that you're aligned with? It's Speaker 2 (6:40) not like, Speaker 3 (6:40) oh, Speaker 1 (6:40) my Wednesdays, oh, my Saturdays. No, a day can be great when unexpectedly something brilliant just happens. Like now? Like this. Well, this will be a good day. I'll remember this. It's going to be a Speaker 3 (6:54) good day. Speaker 1 (6:55) Yeah, on Friday I met this guy on the beach and he had this fancy equipment. Had you asked me this question when I was a child, then it would have been much easier. Of course I would say, hate Sunday's church, hate Monday's school. Speaker 3 (7:08) Maybe it's our job as humans to not have a favourite day, eventually. I think, because Speaker 1 (7:15) you expect that it will happen again. And the more we expect, the less chance of it to happen. Speaker 3 (7:36) So Sunday with church. What is your church now? Speaker 1 (7:40) Garden and swim and friends. Loving life. When was the last time you set Speaker 3 (7:45) foot in a church? Speaker 1 (7:48) Sometimes when I'm in Italy, I walk in because it's so hot outside. Speaker 3 (7:52) And Speaker 1 (7:53) you know there's always marble on the floor. Speaker 3 (7:55) So Speaker 1 (7:56) just take your shoes off and if nobody's watching, you can lie on the floor. Roll around. Well, kind of, you know. Get cooler. When Speaker 3 (8:05) you were little, when you were in the church on a Sunday and you were looking around, what were you thinking? Boring. Speaker 2 (8:14) Boring, scary. So Speaker 3 (8:16) we know you a bit now. And we know that you would have thought boring. Speaker 1 (8:21) And then you Speaker 3 (8:22) would have made it more exciting for yourself, surely? I Speaker 1 (8:25) never did. Really? You just sat there? It was paralyzing. No, it was painful. Speaker 3 (8:29) How did you escape? Speaker 1 (8:31) We had to suffer through 45 minutes. And we had to go to confession thing. Speaker 3 (8:37) Did you confess anything? Speaker 1 (8:38) Of course. Speaker 1 (8:41) The same thing Speaker 3 (8:42) every week or different? I Speaker 1 (8:44) don't know. It's so long ago. I left church when I was 14 years old and I became vegetarian. Speaker 3 (8:51) For some reason, I sold one for another. Speaker 1 (8:54) That's the way it goes, Speaker 3 (8:55) no? Speaker 1 (8:55) Yeah. So Speaker 3 (8:56) 14, why 14? Speaker 1 (9:00) I mean, you know, I remember like asking a priest once, I said like, well, but surely Mary couldn't have been a virgin and then give birth and then why all the church are so sad, they all look so sad. But, you know, you listen to what they say and there should be a sense of happiness and why should one feel guilty for being alive? And I'm a child, like, I don't think what I do is sinful. Speaker 3 (9:26) So you had that awareness, that was good. You actually said that at the time? Really? Yeah, Speaker 1 (9:32) I said I'm very curious, you know, so if I go over a fence and I steal apples, I mean, is this really a sin? I mean, I just want to eat an apple or sweet raspberries. Speaker 3 (9:46) You know, I mean, the Speaker 1 (9:48) shit they punish you for when you're a child. Speaker 3 (9:52) When you did finally leave the church, did anyone mind? Speaker 3 (9:59) Did you have to break it to anybody? Speaker 1 (10:00) I think it must have been another sin. So I'm just going to check what's the time now because I have. Speaker 3 (10:07) What have you got to go to? Speaker 1 (10:09) Bed delivery. You've Speaker 3 (10:11) got a bed delivery? Speaker 1 (10:12) Yeah, it's fine. Speaker 3 (10:13) Okay, that's good. Speaker 1 (10:14) I'm just there. So, I ask the question again. Oh, this is somebody's mind. So, it must have been sinful because I didn't want my parents to know. So, you know, on a Sunday I would go up to my friend's house and stay with them for a couple of hours. Speaker 3 (10:29) Hang on, they didn't even go, their parents didn't, why didn't they not go with you? Speaker 1 (10:32) Because at that age you would go alone, but you would go. Speaker 3 (10:37) So it was easy then to skive off? Speaker 1 (10:39) Yeah, exactly. Speaker 3 (10:40) Do you remember what you did on that Sunday? Oh Speaker 1 (10:44) my God, we probably played music. Speaker 1 (10:46) I was a teenager in the 80s, so we had George Michael on the wall, Madonna, some punk rock, you know, I'm from Poland, so lots of Polish punk rock, lots of music, so we probably just played records. And her father was a really strict communist, and my dad was active, you know, like in Solidarność, the movement which actually brought communism to end, so... We knew that we couldn't speak politics. I mean, we slept on illegal pamphlets. My dad would distribute stuff around, like really political involvement. And we were just girls. We probably spoke about clothes and boys and music and where's the next disco and stuff like that. So that was better than God and suffering. Speaker 1 (11:36) Poor Jesus, who couldn't have been born by Mary without having sex. Speaker 3 (11:51) Tell me something. Speaker 1 (11:52) Yeah. Speaker 3 (11:54) How long have you got now before you have to go? Speaker 1 (11:57) I tell you what, I have... I have 12 minutes. Speaker 3 (12:04) OK. Can I propose something to you? Speaker 1 (12:07) Yeah. Speaker 3 (12:09) I would like to talk to you more. I'm going to be here all day. Would you consider coming back and continuing our conversation further? Speaker 1 (12:17) But tell me a little bit more about this business. What are you selling? This Speaker 3 (12:23) business? What's your church? Well, Speaker 1 (12:24) you Speaker 3 (12:24) know what? You know what? You're like this because, well, first on the selling front. I would say, not to brag too much about this podcast, I would guess, with a fair degree of certainty, one of the more... You can walk about, you can walk away, it's going more... You can just run away. Speaker 1 (12:43) I'm the first one, I'll be the first one. You told me. Just start running. Do a Speaker 3 (12:47) sprint, see what happens. Speaker 1 (12:49) Yeah, there you go. Speaker 3 (12:51) No, no, Speaker 1 (12:51) go on. Speaker 3 (12:52) With a fair amount of certainty, I can say, it's, I would say, the most listened to podcast that doesn't have adverts. Speaker 1 (13:01) Brilliant. Speaker 3 (13:01) So I was not selling anything and it deliberately doesn't because I feel like the last people I want to exploit are the people I talk to. And so there's no... You can Speaker 1 (13:12) say, I don't mind, you can say. But no, no, but Speaker 3 (13:13) there's no money in it at all. Speaker 1 (13:16) I can talk to you. That's great, Speaker 3 (13:18) okay. Should we call this part one and then we'll just meet up later? You know, you're going to have a whole... I mean, you Speaker 1 (13:24) could Speaker 3 (13:24) have a whole day and then meet... No, it's going to be Speaker 1 (13:27) a favourite day because I'm having a really nice bed delivered. Handmade, proper. Oh, wow. From Shropshire. Where all the best beds are made. Apparently. Speaker 3 (13:35) Amazing. I'm going Speaker 1 (13:36) to go. Speaker 3 (13:37) Okay. Don't Speaker 1 (13:38) know Speaker 3 (13:38) yet. What time do you want Speaker 1 (13:39) to Speaker 3 (13:39) meet later? Speaker 1 (13:41) Maybe six? Speaker 3 (13:43) Perfect. If you shake on it. Speaker 1 (13:44) Okay, shake on it. Speaker 3 (13:46) Where are we going to meet? Speaker 1 (13:47) Here? Speaker 3 (13:48) Here again. Six o'clock. This is an arrangement without any text messaging. No, I don't want text messaging. It's just a human arrangement. Okay, Speaker 1 (13:55) show Speaker 3 (13:55) up. If you don't show up, Speaker 1 (13:56) fine. Speaker 3 (13:57) I will show up. Speaker 1 (13:58) Yeah, okay. Speaker 3 (14:13) Okay, so... Speaker 3 (14:16) It's got to that time and I can't see her anywhere. I'm now starting to doubt the bit that we thought we would meet on. Oh god, is she even going to turn up? That's the question. What is life when you're waiting for a Polish woman who you met that morning? What is life? And you don't know if she's going to turn up. Speaker 3 (15:08) So we found each other again. Speaker 1 (15:11) Yeah. We've Speaker 3 (15:12) had our big gap. Speaker 1 (15:13) Yeah, let's see. I mean, it Speaker 3 (15:15) was in doubt. I was starting to get, to be honest, I was starting to get a bit worried. Did you worry a Speaker 1 (15:20) lot? Speaker 3 (15:21) Do I worry a lot generally? No, I worried about this because I just thought, I enjoyed talking to you this morning. I was hoping you were going to come back. And so, you know, there was a small bit of fear. Speaker 1 (15:31) Yeah. Speaker 3 (15:32) Came in. Speaker 1 (15:33) But anyway. Speaker 3 (15:34) We got there. We got it. We made it. We should be celebrating, really. Speaker 1 (15:37) So what can I tell you? And how much time do we have? Because I have about... Not Speaker 3 (15:43) another deadline. Speaker 1 (15:44) It's a Friday evening. Let's say an hour. Let's Speaker 3 (15:49) do what we can. Okay, so run me through your day. Speaker 1 (15:51) You need my day. Well, you've Speaker 3 (15:52) got your... We need to know what happened between the two meetings. Speaker 1 (15:56) Oh, really? Speaker 3 (15:57) Yeah. The Speaker 1 (15:57) bed came. Did you lie down in it straight Speaker 3 (15:59) away? Speaker 1 (16:00) They were very late and they were the delivery guys were... From India. So that was really nice. I had a chat with complete strangers. How Speaker 3 (16:11) lovely. So how long were they in the house for? Speaker 1 (16:14) Maybe half an hour. Speaker 3 (16:15) Okay, lovely. Speaker 1 (16:16) Fantastic. And I had friends earlier. The delivery had been delayed about three times today. So you went Speaker 3 (16:24) to the friend after me? Yeah. Oh my God, this is really an investigation. Speaker 1 (16:30) I promise Speaker 3 (16:31) you the best hour of your life. Speaker 1 (16:32) Listen. So my friend's boyfriend, I had some textiles with me and I haven't seen him for a couple of years. And Don says like, oh, congratulations on this and this. And I'm like, oh, congratulations on... I'm not going to, but I'm going to