#201 - John Wilson
Stavvy's World
John Wilson joins Stav and Eldest to promote his new documentary-comedy The History of Concrete, reflecting on his evolution from shooting Hi8 home movies in Long Island to
Key takeaways
- John Wilson discusses his new film The History of Concrete, which blends factual exploration of Roman self-healing concrete with his signature deadpan comedic style.
- Stav and Eldest explore how Wilson's early Hi8 video projects and time working for a private investigator directly informed the observational, boundary-pushing nature of his documentaries.
Main topics
- The History of Concrete film promotion
- Documentary filmmaking as voyeurism
Notable quotes
"The document, at its core, is a perversion."
Conclusion
The episode successfully merges indie film promotion with unfiltered advice-givi
Transcript preview
Speaker 3 (0:01) Welcome everyone to Stavis World, 904-800-STOP. Call the Stavis Hotline, sponsored by Visible. We'll solve all your problems. We have on the couch today, very pumped, John Wilson on the couch. Honestly, the only time I've been pissed at a guest for outdoing me, I've been brutally hat-mogged on my own. Look, I know it's an audio medium. Half of you have no idea what's going on. John is wearing one of the most tremendous pieces of headwear I've ever come across. He's wearing a novelty sailor's cap. It says Captain Horny on it. It was a gift. It was a gift. What did you do to earn Speaker 2 (0:45) that hat, John? I think I was, yeah. You were Speaker 3 (0:51) a horny lieutenant first? Maybe Speaker 2 (0:53) I Speaker 3 (0:53) just Speaker 2 (0:53) had a bad haircut. Speaker 3 (0:55) No, Speaker 2 (0:55) no. How dare Speaker 3 (0:57) you? That's a beautiful. Speaker 2 (0:58) That Speaker 3 (0:59) actually does. Speaker 2 (0:59) I knew you would like it. That's why I Speaker 3 (1:01) wore it. Speaker 2 (1:02) I really appreciate that. To let you know where I stood. I Speaker 3 (1:04) appreciate that you're pro horny. You know what, which is interesting, because people might not know that looking at you. Because you do, you have, as a... Yeah, Speaker 2 (1:13) you look at my movies, you look at... True. Speaker 3 (1:15) Yeah. But as a, I think, maybe as a, what's the fucking, the guy who looks, the voyeur. Speaker 2 (1:22) The Speaker 3 (1:23) documentarian is a voyeur by nature. Speaker 2 (1:26) Yeah, I think it's, yeah, it's kind of funny that, you know, I think documentarians don't always, you know, they're not always forward about... Of course. You know, the kind of... perversion of the documentary. The Speaker 3 (1:37) document, at its core, is a perversion, which Speaker 2 (1:40) I appreciate about your work. Speaker 3 (1:43) It's Speaker 2 (1:44) funny to lean Speaker 3 (1:44) into it. It is funny to lean into it. And I think you have this beautiful, like, you have an invisibility cloak of looking like a mild-mannered guy. Speaker 2 (1:53) Normal guy. Speaker 3 (1:53) Normal guy, but there's a sick fuck in there. Speaker 2 (1:57) There's a real freak. There's Speaker 3 (1:59) a real horny captain Speaker 2 (2:00) in there. I know. Yeah, you develop a sickness over the years as a nonfiction filmmaker. Absolutely. And Speaker 3 (2:09) I like it because I like when you just, a little glimpse, just a little glimpse. I mean, and also Speaker 2 (2:14) as... I should wear this more, yeah. When I go out and shoot, I feel like... Speaker 2 (2:23) You'll get different people coming up to you if you have a Speaker 3 (2:26) camera and Speaker 2 (2:27) you got Speaker 3 (2:27) Captain Horny on. Speaker 3 (2:30) It would be awesome if just one thing you do, just if you, the way you cut into these insane people's lives from time to time, one of them is just pornography. Just P and V on camera. I just, I gotta Speaker 2 (2:45) find the right network. We're getting there, dude. The Speaker 3 (2:48) point where nothing means anything anymore. We're gonna get to like, there's just a feed that everyone posts everything on. There's just a chronological web. We're getting to the slop. conveyor belt and we're all eventually we'll just put our stuff into like one you know oh Speaker 2 (3:05) the feet it will be called the feed i mean i predict i feel like i predicted this to myself oh yeah a little you know just i think before ai was like a real thing i was like you're just gonna have the thing you want to see it is it is made like it is made somehow and then it just you watch it and then everyone just sees what they want you know but like I don't know, I feel like we're halfway there. We're in a very strange period with AI and stuff right now where everything's just kind of misspelled and like Speaker 3 (3:34) a little off. I know, even someone who hates AI and is against it, we are up against, it's a real foe. Like the idea, like I love being like, fuck AI, it's not gonna work. And on some level, I do think when push comes to shove, it is missing, there is just a... intangible element it will always miss, Speaker 2 (3:56) but Speaker 3 (3:56) that could also just be like human romantization and the reality is no it's not and nothing we do is actually that impressive and eventually computers will figure out and it'll do and yes I will be able to watch Speaker 2 (4:10) John Wick fight Goku someday. Speaker 3 (4:12) You know what I mean? Like because of it's possible that they do that and then Bulma comes out and she pulls her tits out. Yeah. That would be awesome. That's what you want. Speaker 3 (4:23) Yeah, and then at the end, after I beat off, they like to show me like steak videos. It kind of just takes, honestly, what's going to happen is they'll take your feed. Yeah, my feed is all like. Chicks with huge tits, people grilling steak. Yeah. And then like clips from Dragon Ball Z. I've gotten into a Dragon Ball Z. I'm kind of reconnecting with my youth right now. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. And so I've gone back to comforting things. So that's- Yeah, no problem. Huge Speaker 2 (4:52) tits, grilled meats, and cartoons. Speaker 3 (4:56) Did you have a- I remember- There was an episode where you had a bunch of Matrix action figures. Speaker 2 (5:03) Oh, yeah. But Speaker 3 (5:04) what was your obsession as a teen or young Speaker 2 (5:07) kid or whatever? Were you a DBZ guy? I was a DBZ guy. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I liked DBZ a lot. Speaker 3 (5:13) Yeah. I think that's actually culturally what – there is no greater bond for millennial men than Dragon Ball Z across all creeds. religions and cultures. I mean, that's Speaker 2 (5:23) how I... I'll Speaker 3 (5:23) just chomp it at the bit to chime in here. Well, I was just going to Speaker 1 (5:26) say, I don't even like anime and shit. Me Speaker 3 (5:28) neither. Speaker 1 (5:28) Even I fucked with DBZ. Speaker 3 (5:30) Everyone did. And black guys did too. Not just anime black guys. Like, cool black guys like DBZ. Mexicans love... You'll go to Mexico City and see a mural of Goku. Like, hanging out with fucking Jesus. Like, Goku will be doing a bicycle kick and Mother Teresa will be fucking getting scored on in Mexico. You know what I mean? Like, there is... And I would love to know other cultures because I bet you there's random nations that love Goku that we don't even fucking know about. The history of Goku, that's your next fucking movie. Okay, yeah. Speaker 2 (6:01) Sorry. I Speaker 3 (6:02) don't know. Speaker 2 (6:02) I don't want to go to Comic-Con. Yeah, Speaker 3 (6:04) that's true. What if you did a non-comic? Actually, Goku in his non-anime zones is a kind of a... I'm not telling you to do it. You got your own fucking... Non-anime zones? Like Mexico City. Speaker 2 (6:17) Like, you know... Yeah, just throw any ideas you got just throw out. Let's pitch. Yeah. And Speaker 3 (6:23) we should say the movie John is actually here to promote is The History of Concrete, which is really fucking good. I was they sent me I got sent a screener and I watched I watched it so fucking high. I was like, damn, this is awesome. And the next day I was like, let me formulate some opinions and questions. And I was like. wait, I don't fucking remember a single thing that happened. And then I went and watched it in theaters that day because I was like, fuck yeah, dude. I know I like this and I also want to experience it. I even tried watching it twice high. No. For real, I've watched your movie three times. I mean, that's the way to do it. Speaker 2 (7:02) Yeah, it actually, I Speaker 3 (7:03) think there's something to that. Speaker 2 (7:04) Yeah, I think, yeah, you just kind of just let it, yeah, I don't know. I think it's cool to see it in the IFC though. It feels more transgressive. I feel like it shouldn't be there. I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah. It's fun because it's a Speaker 3 (7:17) comedy. Because the laughs are interesting because you have an understated style that is fucking hilarious. And a lot of it is, a lot of the humor for me is like. you're caught off guard by how quickly you fucking, you basically, speaking of Goku, you basically instant transmission into different worlds. Speaker 2 (7:35) Yeah. And like in one moment you're at a grocery store, the next moment, you know, a guy's got, Speaker 3 (7:40) maybe one of my favorite things in the world is when that guy's got his cock. on his headboard and we just see some guys kind of big cock get Speaker 2 (7:49) his foreskin stretched and he's just a mild-mannered dad. He had a beautiful member. Has, has. Has, has. He's still with us. Yeah, but he stopped making the foreskin restoration device. No. Yeah, like he, I thought that the episode would kind of help boost his sales. Absolutely, Speaker 3 (8:06) the TC Tugger. Speaker 2 (8:07) Yeah. It's over, the TC Tugger's done? Yeah, he stopped production, and I think he laid off one or two employees, and then now he's busking. Last I heard, he was busking around England doing his foreskin restoration songs Speaker 3 (8:24) on Speaker 2 (8:26) the street. Speaker 3 (8:27) Didn't he have a wife and children? He does. Speaker 2 (8:30) Yeah, but they're, I don't know. I get they're out of the house. He's living his best life, I think. Empty nester. I don't know. I still have my TLC tugger, but I... You're clipped, I assume. Yeah, I'm clipped. Yeah, Speaker 3 (8:42) yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 (8:43) Did you ever try the tugger out? The tugger was tough because I didn't, like, I would have needed to, it's not fit to me. Right. You have to have it kind of, he needs to take, like, kind of measurements of your. Oh, Speaker 3 (8:56) he Speaker 2 (8:56) needs to, the guy. Well, you send him in. I don't know. I never did before. He sent me a, he gave me a stock tugger. So I haven't, like. I haven't, like, I assume it doesn't fit. Yeah, Speaker 3 (9:09) right, right. Because my Speaker 2 (9:10) penis is either too big or too small. You'll never know. Speaker 3 (9:13) That's Speaker 2 (9:14) why this guy's a great Speaker 3 (9:16) artist. Speaker 2 (9:16) He just said Speaker 3 (9:17) it Speaker 2 (9:17) won't fit. It's up to the eye of the beholder to Speaker 3 (9:19) know Speaker 2 (9:20) why. Yeah, but, you know, there's a lot of, you know, Dragon Ball kind of in the work. You know, a lot of powering up. There is a lot of powering up, yeah. You know, that's kind of what concrete's, you know, that's in there too. I don't know. Yeah. Well, I was just saying like watching, Speaker 3 (9:37) yes, it was awesome to see it. And if you're in New York, you should go see it at IFC. If they're playing it somewhere, because it is cool to see. I mean, also just like you're around people that would go see the movie. People you agree, some, there's like a weird sense of community when you see something in a place different than normal. You know what I mean? Like people like your show, you know, for years, it was the show you had was How To with John Wilson. Great. If you haven't seen it, fucking watch that. You probably don't make any fucking money anymore off that, do you? I don't know, not Speaker 2 (10:07) really. Do you get a little dime when they go to HBO Max? The WGA sends me some checks sometimes, but it's not really that much anymore. Speaker 3 (10:14) That sucks, dude. So actually, Speaker 2 (10:16) fuck watching. Speaker 3 (10:18) I don't Speaker 2 (10:19) know. You should watch it. None of it makes any sense to me. It's just like everything is, I don't know. You kind of just have to make shit and hope somehow it leads to money. Speaker 3 (10:31) Yeah. Again, I don't know how this happened, that this is the only industry that makes money in entertainment. I don't know how podcasting, the worst one, truly the least artful form of art there ever was. Like, what if radio was shittier is the question? Yeah. How did we become the only thing when it's like, yeah, your shit is, you'll follow. And another thing I love is you'll just randomly just. I love the just needling, like not needling, but like just kind of seeing Speaker 2 (11:02) how far people will take it politely though. Speaker 3 (11:04) You're never in anybody's face, but you'll randomly ask someone to go on a road trip with them, for example. Speaker 2 (11:09) Yeah. Speaker 3 (11:10) Or you'll ask someone, or you'll fly to Rome. Speaker 2 (11:12) Because Speaker 3 (11:13) you heard the Roman Empire had self-healing concrete, which was one of my favorite parts of the documentary. Oh, yeah. Speaker 2 (11:20) I know. Yeah, it was nice to have the different languages in this picture. Yeah, Speaker 3 (11:25) yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 (11:25) You know, trying to communicate with, like, Italian cops. Yeah. really great for comedy. Speaker 3 (11:33) Yes, yes, yes. They were awesome. Those guys were great. And then you try... And they did have self-healing concrete, which is fucking fascinating. Speaker 2 (11:41) Yeah. It was like the lye or some shit. It was like rainwater. Speaker 3 (11:44) Yeah, like Speaker 2 (11:44) volcanic ash. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like the limestone. I don't know. Every time it rained? Some strange mixture. It would self-heal if there was a crack. Again, this is like how the pitches went, which is why... Yeah. Like, that's just why we didn't like have any money for a while. while yeah Speaker 3 (12:00) yeah um Speaker 2 (12:01) you know you're just like giving people like real like kind of reference textbook facts about yeah cement and concrete and ecological uh kind of horror stories about it yeah but and then by the end of it like they're um they're just so bored yeah Speaker 3 (12:21) i mean it's a weird pitch yeah Speaker 2 (12:24) because then it's hard to be to say all that stuff and then say like but something fun then But something funny is going to happen. Yeah, Speaker 3 (12:31) yeah. Speaker 2 (12:31) Which it shouldn't be, by the way, because, like, of Speaker 3 (12:34) course, like, it's the set. Like, you're like, this is the setup. Concrete is the setup, and you find a series of punchlines throughout it. You find the humanity. You find the, like, that's the whole thing. And if these fucking dumbasses had seen one episode of your show, Speaker 2 (12:52) they should understand what you were going through. No, it doesn't. If I had to, like, pitch any other. titles any other like episodes from the show the same way that concrete it would have been just as hard yeah where it's like you it's i'm like i don't know what's gonna happen you know this will take roughly a year or two you know and i'm just gonna you know follow whatever is funny i don't know Speaker 3 (13:19) how many it was a couple years how long yeah it's like two two and a half years okay um it's good it's fucking awesome it's hilarious Oh, yeah, sure. I do want to go back, though. I do want to close the loop on you were a DBZ guy. What other stuff were you into as a child? What was the type of shit you were playing with? Playing with. Or that, like, you know, piqued your interest as a young boy? Speaker 2 (13:45) I think I was, I don't know. I was always a movie kid. Okay. I always had, like, movies. Speaker 2 (13:54) around yeah i don't know i Speaker 3 (13:55) vhs kid or like yeah Speaker 2 (13:57) vhs kid yeah i would edit vhs tapes together oh wow holy um and just like make weird stuff like in Speaker 3 (14:06) camera you would do edits yeah yeah really Speaker 2 (14:09) i don't know it was it was fun but I don't know. I was in like musicals as a kid too. Oh, hell yeah. Speaker 3 (14:16) You had flair. Speaker 2 (14:18) Yeah, I was in Damn Yankees. And yeah, I played like the baseball like hunk. Hell yeah. You know, and it's not funny. Speaker 3 (14:30) It's not funny. It makes sense, Eldon. It makes sense. Shut the fuck up back there. We're trying to do an interview that people are interested in. You're guffawing. Sorry, sorry. I was thinking of something else. Speaker 1 (14:39) I know John is Captain Horn. Yeah, Speaker 3 (14:43) how dare you besmirch Captain Horny's ability to read as a heartthrob in middle school. Yeah, on Speaker 2 (14:50) the day of my podcast appearance. Do not disrespect Speaker 3 (14:54) Captain Horny when he's got the hat on, Elders. For fuck's sake. Yeah, give yourself a boo, you piece of shit. Speaker 3 (15:02) Did you see yourself with the hunk at that point in your life? Speaker 2 (15:05) No, I was like, I was like, I was a, you know, my hair was dyed black. You know, I had like. Black finger. I was like kind of emo. It was like Long Island emo, you know? Long Island emo. Like that. I had a big phase like that, you know? Hell yeah. And. Duster. Speaker 3 (15:22) You ever heard of Duster? Duster, yeah. You ever go full length? No, Speaker 2 (15:25) no, no. No, post Columbine Speaker 3 (15:27) tough. Speaker 2 (15:28) No, no, no. Yeah, not Columbine chic. More just like, I don't know, tight clothing kind of stuff. Some stripes maybe. Yeah, that was like a period of like where I kind of was just was with emo kids for a second. And then. But, you know, I still have a great fondness for that. I didn't realize. I thought that everyone in the world was emo at that time. Right. Speaker 3 (15:50) I Speaker 2 (15:50) didn't realize that it was like a Speaker 3 (15:51) Long Island specific thing in Speaker 2 (15:54) certain ways. Speaker 3 (15:55) Well, you had two options on Long Island at that period. It was emo or it was pretend to be black, basically. It would be like. Speaker 2 (16:01) Yeah. It was a word that we're not Speaker 3 (16:03) saying anymore, but everybody knows what it starts with a W and it rhymes with a horrific slur. Yeah. That word Speaker 2 (16:10) was bandied about a lot. Oh, yeah. But that was basically. like Speaker 3 (16:14) if growing up on Long Island was like a fucking Final Fantasy or whatever, and you could do the like tree, the skill tree or whatever the fuck, Speaker 2 (16:24) you Speaker 3 (16:24) had to decide whether you were going to go emo or you were going to be a friend of the show, Brendan Sagalow, for example, like a fat little Long Island kid that dyed his hair blonde to be like Eminem. Speaker 2 (16:35) You got to go Eminem Speaker 3 (16:36) or you got to Speaker 2 (16:36) go like sort Speaker 3 (16:37) of. Again, not Charles. Or Taking Back Sunday, yeah. Taking Back Sunday, that's the one. That's the one. Yes, yes, yes. Speaker 2 (16:44) Yeah, that was, I didn't realize that so many of those bands were just from Long Island when I was like listening to them and stuff. Interesting. I don't know. I did not think I would be talking about this too. Well, we need to fucking figure out what Captain Horny's Speaker 3 (16:57) all about. No, this shit's fascinating though because it's like when you're like an emo child, is that when, when did the camera first start coming? out because I will say it's so pathetic to think about. I used to do a podcast on my little cassette. Like my parents gave me like one of those cassettes with a microphone. Yeah. And my grandfather from Greece would send tapes of Greek music. And I remember my dad getting pissed at me because I was like, I was taping over my grandfather, like mixed tapes. He was making, it was maybe one of the only forms of communication, you know, to. two generations of repressed emotional men. My dad and grandfather never got to the bottom of how my dad moved into America. And I could tell that was the great, in hindsight, that was the great regret of my father's life that he'll never admit. And now he's just, by the way, repeating the same mistakes, whatever, whatever, it's fine. But... As a fucking fat seven-year-old, I would hear like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And I'd be like, oh, folks, we have some more shitty music to cover over. And I would just be like, so today I was literally podcasting pathetically in the little computer room. I'll just remember the little room off my living room. Me and Eldest have known each other since we were four years old. Oh, yeah. Speaker 3 (18:21) Before I jacked off in there, I used to do podcasts at like seven, hilariously. And I would just talk by myself. And if I heard a good song, I'd be like, hey, this one's not bad. But anyway, so what I'm saying is I do feel like very early on, there's just signs that you're going to be who you are. Were you bringing the mini DV out when you're- Yeah. Well, Speaker 2 (18:41) I was shooting on like high eight. And I don't know. There was like, you know, there was the music. you know music phase but that you know it was like blended with the movie phase i think to begin with but it was there were never emo films never emo film no they were like they were kind of like movie spoofs for a while oh sick just like you know but they all have my name in it, you know, like John Ward. Branding. Smart. John Work Orange. Speaker 3 (19:09) John Speaker 2 (19:09) Work Orange is awesome. Speaker 3 (19:14) You're thinking at the time as well, these are brands and I'm a brand. Yeah. Time to John X. Clockwork Awards. This is what the people have been waiting for. This is the collab that people have been waiting for. We did Speaker 2 (19:27) a lot of Kubrick, like Full Metal John was another. Yeah, Full Speaker 3 (19:30) Metal John Speaker 2 (19:30) is awesome. Fuck, dude. I want the Criterion, Speaker 3 (19:35) the John collection. Speaker 2 (19:38) It's Speaker 3 (19:38) out there. I want to be on a turtleneck talking about how groundbreaking Full Metal John was. It's on all Speaker 2 (19:42) the tapes I gave around college or something. I went over and I watched all the tapes at a neighborhood friend's house that we would make the movies with. and it left them all there and i don't know where they are now so it's like which you know if there's any gum shoes out there yeah Speaker 3 (19:59) uh get out there Speaker 2 (20:00) they're out there but i hope you don't find them Speaker 3 (20:04) I do. Eldest, hire a gumshoe to get this. Go to Long Island. Start harassing everyone that ever bought a Taking Back Sunday album. Yeah. Speaker 2 (20:12) That ought to narrow it down. Get Speaker 3 (20:14) a Long Speaker 2 (20:14) Island Medium. Or Long Island, what is it, that show? Long Island Psychic? I Speaker 3 (20:18) believe it's Long Island Medium. Long Speaker 2 (20:20) Island Speaker 3 (20:20) Medium. Didn't somebody used to have a joke about jerking off the Long Island Medium sun in a parking lot? I think they did. I think I knew someone. Fuck. That's a joke? Yeah, it was a great joke. It was a big, I think she started mentioning, she hangs the Long Island Medium out there, and you think it's just color. Yeah. Speaker 2 (20:40) And Speaker 3 (20:40) then it all comes back around, and it actually turns out she jacked off his son in a car. Wow. Speaker 2 (20:45) You heard it here. Speaker 3 (20:47) Yeah, one of my friends maybe had a joke about it. It feels like from the open mic days, that feels like a... Yeah. I feel like I heard that at Creek in the Cave back in the day. Well, you Speaker 2 (20:58) know, if it wasn't true, you manifest it, I think. True. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 3 (21:01) Well, someone's son jerked off the Long Island Mediums. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 (21:05) Someone's Speaker 3 (21:05) daughter. Speaker 2 (21:06) Imagine. Speaker 3 (21:07) Maybe someone's son jerked off the Long Island Mediums song, too. I don't fucking know what he was up to. Speaker 2 (21:12) I love finding those tapes. I've been going to a lot of estate sales and looking for... tapes of like things that like it'll say like wedding or something on the side. But then like a couple of times it has been classically like recorded with like pornography or like some other weird shit Speaker 3 (21:27) on it. I mean, me and my brothers found my father's pornography and it said Barney. And it was literally Barney. And it starts as Barney. So at one point it had Barney on it. And I guess my dad was like, all right, my fucking bitch ass sons have outgrown Barney. Speaker 2 (21:44) Time Speaker 3 (21:45) to jack off. And literally it was. We've talked about it before. Speaking of spoofs, it was a Fast Times at Ridgemont High spoof. It was called Fast Times at Ridgely High. And Speaker 2 (21:57) that was the erotic film? Yeah. Speaker 3 (22:00) He had taped over it. So I guess he bootlegged Fast Times at Ridgely High over a Barney post. What was it called, Eldis? Did you find it? Speaker 2 (22:08) You're looking Speaker 3 (22:09) for it? I promise you I could find the title in one second if I tried. Speaker 2 (22:12) It would have been so much cooler if it was like a Barney, like purple man. He takes the shit off. Yeah. The Speaker 3 (22:18) guy takes the shit off. He cuts a hole in his cock. He just brings his cock through an off-brand purple dinosaur thing. Yeah. Interesting. And was it amateur pornography? No, Speaker 2 (22:32) it was produced stuff. but I don't know. I'm always just looking for like, if there's ever like a tape in a camcorder at like a thrift store, it's like, there's always something like that's never been digitized on there. Totally. Which is like, I don't know. I don't know what I do with this stuff. I usually just like, just Speaker 3 (22:49) throw them out or like sell it at a yard sale or something after I like, after you digitize it. Yeah. I looked Speaker 2 (22:54) through it. Some, some of it's not worth digitizing and not worth like you don't like some of it. You just like, don't want to have. Sure. Yeah. Speaker 3 (23:02) Sure. So you have an incinerator in the office. I see what you're saying. I don't know. Speaker 2 (23:07) You buy everything cash. You Speaker 3 (23:11) want no paper trail on some of these random Long Island videotapes from the 90s. Yeah. You Speaker 2 (23:19) know, I don't know. It's crazy what people, you know, people don't have nuance about like the kind of stuff with. art making and it's like you know i think about the peewee herman doc a lot you know not to go full peewee here sure sure please you know please go full Speaker 3 (23:32) peewee he Speaker 2 (23:33) pulled his dick out started backing off ah he Speaker 3 (23:37) just snotted he like he had Speaker 2 (23:40) all this like vintage erotica like in his place you know but they when the cops found it they like tried to make it seem like that was like uh braved yeah depraved or something like that but it was like you know Speaker 3 (23:54) yeah is that surprising i Speaker 2 (23:56) don't know but but it's also like these are like kind of beautiful like paper objects at the same time you know and it's like as a collector or just like as just like an artist who's doing weird shit like that You do have a bunch of weird shit. Of course. It sounds like I'm trying to dig myself out of Speaker 3 (24:13) a Speaker 2 (24:13) hole. If Speaker 3 (24:13) a hard Speaker 2 (24:13) drive is found, Speaker 3 (24:14) I was looking at that stuff artistically. I'm more so just like... I know exactly what you mean. I'm Speaker 2 (24:22) into people. I wish people were more open about the weird shit that they maybe had in their house. Of course. I don't know. Not that everyone's constantly denying it, but I think it's Speaker 3 (24:32) like... Speaker 2 (24:32) I know what Speaker 3 (24:32) you mean, though. And I think that's a lot of what your work is, truly, is like, you know, not to tell you what you're... your own shit is but what i love about is that yes you start with something that's like how the history of concrete or how to fucking make restaurant uh or how to split the bill or whatever the fuck right uh and it's like oh what is this bullshit you know what i mean like what is this some fucking like you know uh it almost feels like the trappings of Speaker 3 (24:58) the like, you know, school sex eds or like, you know what I mean? Like these old, almost like newsreel footage of how to brush your pussy, you know, how to wash your teeth or whatever. Brush your teeth, not, you know, whatever. How to like have hygiene or whatever. And immediately, you know, your POV is interesting. It's like, wait, was this just some fucking guy holding the camera? And then you take these, what seems like banal questions. You're like. And then you just dive into these worlds and peel apart how even the most bullshit question, the most simple bullshit question, there are so many layers of humanity underneath and so much weird, everything is so interconnected. And that's, there's so much, that's one of the things I love about all your stuff. And so it makes so much sense to me that you're like, what is this seemingly normal object? And what does it tell us about the people that owned it? Or like, you know, and Speaker 2 (25:53) - And particularly video, like that is fascinating because people Speaker 3 (25:57) in the 80s and 90s, they thought no one would ever see their fucking home. Speaker 2 (26:01) Yeah, I know. You could Speaker 3 (26:02) really go buck wild back then. There was no Speaker 2 (26:04) getting hacked. No one had to worry Speaker 3 (26:07) about the shit on their phone. And I bet you there was some really good. uh amateur pornography that we'll never see that will that will never see the people going because even now if you're getting if you're taking a video of yourself getting your things hypothetically in the back of your on your phone on your phone you're scared that someone will hack into your phone and see your little ass dick hypothetically yeah Speaker 2 (26:30) yeah that's why you just don't yeah i don't do stuff like i don't i don't have anything like that on my phone Speaker 3 (26:36) I believe you. Yeah. Speaker 2 (26:37) I Speaker 3 (26:38) think you would make a million dollars if you took some kind of like unhackable. But if someone hacked your. Photography camera. Speaker 2 (26:44) Okay. If you... I Speaker 3 (26:48) think that's a great idea. Speaker 2 (26:49) Yeah. Speaker 3 (26:49) The unhackable pornography camera immediately gets hacked. Speaker 2 (26:53) I know. Yeah, like, hello, sharks. Speaker 3 (26:55) Yeah. Mark Cuban, have you ever worried that people will see your penis and say it's not that big, even though you're getting it sucked by an objectively pretty hot girl? Speaker 2 (27:08) But if you're like... My logic is, like, even if you do have nasty stuff... Mm-hmm. and someone hacks it on your phone, it's like, that's bad on them. Sure. And it's like, if anyone is viewing this thing that was meant to be private, I don't know, depending on the severity of what the thing is. Of course. But like, it's kind of like, you know, and you know, easier to say is like, I don't know, as a guy too, I don't really know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's like, it's like. Revenge porn, we don't have to worry about that. Yeah, that's like a shame, that's like an extremely shameful act, kind of behavior, you know? So it's like, but I think about that like. I, you know, I don't like to have. I don't know. Like sometimes I keep my blinds, you know, down because I just like, I just don't like the thought of someone maybe like filming inside my apartment or something like that. Speaker 3 (27:57) Some sick Speaker 2 (27:57) fuck like you Speaker 3 (27:58) lurking outside. Yeah. Speaker 2 (27:59) But it's like, I don't know. But you know, if it, but if that were to happen, that's bad on them, you know, depending on how it's like used or whatever. So do Speaker 3 (28:09) you see this, the like surreptitious footage you obtain as bad on you? Speaker 2 (28:15) Um, no, I feel like it's a, I like to be on the razor's edge of kind of what's okay and what's not. I think that's what makes it kind of exciting. Yeah. Speaker 3 (28:23) Yeah. And, Speaker 2 (28:24) um, I don't know. It's like, I, I feel like I told you this before, but you know, I used to work for a private investigator for a little while. I Speaker 3 (28:30) love that. And like, one of my favorite details about you. Speaker 2 (28:34) And it was, I don't know, it trains your eye in a certain way. And, uh, I think there's something like more kind of, uh, kind of. erotic about the banal you know sometimes and like like even even just like a funny like gesture or something like that can be like so much more exciting oh yeah than like a fucking car crash i mean no offensive Your movie, that's Speaker 3 (29:00) a Speaker 2 (29:00) car crash. Yeah. If Speaker 3 (29:01) your standup special ends with a, out of nowhere car crash, for example. Oh yeah. Speaker 2 (29:08) The car crash looked really good. Yeah. You guys did a great special. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Speaker 3 (29:13) I do, briefly, the private, how long did you do that? Because that is, I have always been obsessed. I really love detective private eye shit. I love all that stuff. Like, and I know the reality of it is so much. It's not a guy with a fucking trench coat. There's no like a dame with red lipstick. I mean, it's guys Speaker 2 (29:33) that look like, you know, I don't know. Speaker 3 (29:35) Like what? Speaker 2 (29:39) No, it's just like a guy in a tinted minivan. Yeah, yeah. Like it's really the most unromantic thing. They just have a license, you know? Yeah, yeah. And they just like go out. They'll stake out someone's house for hours waiting for them to get out, like walk out of their wheelchair. you know right right and a lot of the insurance right yeah like workman yeah work compensation kind of stuff um but you know i would take they would have broken cameras and stuff and i would always take them and kind of like tinker with them and uh like try to you know i would use them for myself yeah i also like started a blog where i would like take some of the footage and Speaker 3 (30:15) like Speaker 2 (30:16) kind of like make little like gifs out of it um but you know it's just for like me and 10 friends or something because it's you know you can't really like You can't do that. Speaker 3 (30:27) No, you can't. On the clock. Yeah. in the middle of an ongoing investigation. Speaker 2 (30:33) But Speaker 3 (30:33) yeah, that is what always shocked me about a private eye. It's like, it's literally just a guy. It's a guy being annoying. It's Speaker 2 (30:41) a guy. There's no Speaker 3 (30:41) other. It's a guy like being nosy and asking questions. It's not Speaker 2 (30:45) that hard too. It's like there are certain databases that you could just access as a civilian also. Yeah. It's like not really that hard to look up every known associate, every, you know, like place you've ever worked, lived, you know. It's not that hard. Speaker 3 (31:00) Did you do any investigating for your own? Like, did you do, was there ever like anyone you wanted to take down, dig up dirt on? Do you have any enemies? Speaker 2 (31:09) I'm really enemy focused. In the word. I don't know. I think like- Even Speaker 3 (31:19) for fun, was there a guy you didn't like? You're like, I bet this guy did something fucked up. Speaker 2 (31:23) Or do you take no Speaker 3 (31:25) joy from that type of thing? Speaker 2 (31:27) I don't know. I feel like I never- When I start to get into expose territory, I begin to be like, what's going on here? Right. Like if I'm really digging up dirt, it's like the person's got to be, I think, pretty evil or something. Yeah, Speaker 3 (31:43) I just meant for yourself, not even for work. If you ever, because I do have a friend who, anytime somebody crosses him or us or anybody, he knows some of these databases and we found some hilarious stuff out about people. Speaker 2 (31:57) Oh, yeah. Speaker 3 (31:58) But that's just for us, just to laugh. We would never expose them. We also did a really funny thing where we, there was a different time where you can just, we had a different enemy and you can, and he had like some, you know. I don't remember what it was, like drunk driving or maybe this guy pulled his dick, like a different... Speaker 3 (32:19) like sexual, like, you know, I think he pulled his dick out or something like a peep, like not peeping Tom shit, but like, you know, expose themselves to somebody. Speaker 2 (32:27) And Speaker 3 (32:27) you can request the MP3s of the court recording. Oh, Speaker 2 (32:34) really? But Speaker 3 (32:34) on the docket, it'll say someone requested these Speaker 2 (32:38) files. So Speaker 3 (32:39) a sort of light devious thing to do is never. never like use the information for evil, but just it's possible that they got a call from their lawyer like, hey, just so you know, someone asked for the transcript