Jon Ronson

Simon Mayo's Books of the Year

The episode begins with hosts Simon Mayo and Matt addressing listener queries regarding dating and reading habits before transitioning to an in-depth interview with

Key takeaways

• Jon Ronson's book 'The Castle' was inspired by his son Joel being lured to a stranger's house in Connecticut via a Tinder connection.
• The castle owner, Chris Mark, attempted to launch a reality show called '101 Princesses' that involved participants wearing costumes.

Main topics

• Jon Ronson's book 'The Castle'
• The masculinity crisis

Notable quotes

A shaming is a predicate between a shamer and a shamey.

Conclusion

The episode provides a profound look at how shifting social structures

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:12) Hello and welcome. It's another Books of the Year podcast. Another top guest, who is John Ronson, is on the way. First of all, Matt is at hand. Email from George. George, thank you very much. Emailing booksoftheyearatyahoo.com. Simon and Matt, I know this may sound a bit dear-dear-dry, but I need help from my bookish agony uncles. Speaker 2 (0:34) Oh, right, OK. No, I like this. This is great. Let's make this a feature. Yes, go Speaker 3 (0:38) on. Speaker 2 (0:38) I don't like this very much. Speaker 3 (0:40) I've been divorced and single for eight years, but recently joined the dating game again. Scary stuff, says George in Stambridge. I went on a date with this lovely lady recently and we got on like a house on fire. We made it to the third drink. Oh, good sign. Near the end of our chat, whilst I was telling her about a book I just enjoyed, London Falling by Patrick Radden Keefe, as you're asking, she uttered these words. I don't really like reading. OK. I don't think you're going to London. What do I do? Everything else about her was perfect. Should I go on a second date? Or tell her to listen to this pod. Thanks for the pod. George Instabridge. I haven't changed my name and she won't be listening. No, she's Speaker 2 (1:21) not likely Speaker 3 (1:22) to be Speaker 2 (1:22) listening. Speaker 3 (1:23) Wow. Well, I wasn't expecting to be asked about this. I mean, far be it from us to give you any kind of relationship advice. Speaker 2 (1:31) No. But. Right, genuinely, this is what I would say. I don't really Speaker 3 (1:36) like reading. Speaker 2 (1:37) Yeah, no, okay, but a lot of people are like that, and that is because a lot of people's experience of reading books is they had to read them for school, and it was a massive pain, and they didn't enjoy the books, and so they always associate books with that feeling. Speaker 2 (1:56) I think the best way to approach those things is to find a book that you think, look, I know you hate reading and you can't stand books. Trust me, give this ten minutes. And you have to be very careful about the book you choose. A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking. Speaker 3 (2:14) Yeah, Speaker 2 (2:14) correct. Something like that. But, I mean, to be honest, the Patrick Radden Keefe book, I love. And everyone has been talking about that this summer. Maybe Speaker 3 (2:21) there's something a bit thinner. Speaker 2 (2:23) Yeah, don't recommend something that looks like a doorstop. Don't go for something literary. Oh, my God. Don't go for anything that is describing the weather on the first page. Audiobook? Audiobook's not a bad shout, actually. Audiobook's not a bad shout. Speaker 3 (2:36) That is like Speaker 2 (2:37) reading, but it's not like reading. It is. that's a very good idea, actually. So, yes. But I would take some time, because she sounds great, but it's just that she doesn't like books. So, find something that you think is going to chime for her, and just say, look, will you just give this 20 minutes of your time? If you hate it after 20 minutes, fine, but I think you might like it. Speaker 3 (3:00) It certainly sounds like it's worth a second date. Yeah, I think so, definitely. However, if... If it is indicative of, you know, you might find out that actually it is a problem. Yeah, no, no, no. If you love books and she doesn't, obviously you want people to be as similar as possible. Yeah, yeah. George, go on a second date, see what happens. Try an audio book or... Something that you think she might. Speaker 2 (3:24) Yeah, yeah. That's what I would do. Proceed with caution. Correct. An email from B. Gosden. All right, lads. I heard another listener write this, so I jumped on the bandwagon. I wondered if you could shout out my local library, Jubilee Library in Brighton. The staff are so helpful and friendly and recently helped me do some techie stuff, as in printing. Yes, printing. I am that inept. Long may libraries reign, especially Jubilee. Jubilee Library. Whilst I was there, I borrowed a copy of The Art of a Lie. Oh, very good. As Matt has enthused so much about it, I will let you know my review. Thanks for the great pod, says Bea. That's a great book, Bea. I think you're going to enjoy it. Speaker 3 (4:07) Thank you, Bea Gosden. You can email us at any time, bookswithyou at yahoo.com. We're on Instagram, Threads and Blue Sky. And now we speak to top journalist, bestselling author, John Ronson. Speaker 3 (4:28) Yes, it's great to have John Ronson back on the podcast and back in the country. You just arrived. Speaker 1 (4:33) Flew in last night. I have been recombobulating all morning. Speaker 3 (4:36) And how does that feel? Speaker 1 (4:38) Well, the recombobulating, actually, I just feel like I've got a huge fog inside my head. Oh, okay. Speaker 3 (4:44) But Speaker 1 (4:44) I'm always very happy to be back in London. Every time I come back to London, I do think to myself, I live in the countryside two hours north of New York City now. And I always think, like, I love where I live, but I always wish it was two hours north of London and not New York City. Speaker 3 (4:56) So that would make it, what, St. Albans or something? Speaker 1 (4:58) Well, that's the thing. Like, I live in the Hudson Valley, which is just so beautiful and idyllic. But yes. No, St. Albans is like, this is probably boring. St. Albans is like 15 minutes north of London. Oh, Speaker 3 (5:11) okay. Sorry about that. Speaker 1 (5:12) I know that because I made a documentary called Stanley Kubrick's Boxes, where I went every day to Stanley Kubrick's house to look through his boxes. Okay, well, Coventry then. Yes, it'd be like living in Coventry. Okay. Speaker 3 (5:23) All right. Very good. But the huge advantage of Coventry is Trump isn't in charge. Yes. Although, Speaker 1 (5:29) you know, I always think the country that elected Trump is also the country that will get rid of him. Speaker 3 (5:36) That's a very optimistic take, I have to say. Speaker 1 (5:38) I've got to say that's sticking in my throat more Speaker 3 (5:41) than Speaker 1 (5:42) it used to, that optimistic thought. Every time I have an optimistic thought about the future, I've noticed it hasn't come true. Things only get worse. Okay, Speaker 3 (5:51) and on that cheery note, we start our conversation about John's new book, which is called The Castle. Matt, describe the Speaker 2 (5:57) rather remarkable cover. It is a remarkable cover. And so the front cover is dominated by this sort of suburban scene with houses on each side of this road. However, your eye is going to be drawn immediately to the black silhouette of what we will call, it's like a Disney castle. It's not a castle. that you would have in this country. It is a Disney castle right at the end of this lane and there's a big red sun behind the castle. John Ronson's name in big, bold red letters across a... As Speaker 3 (6:31) it should Speaker 2 (6:31) be. As it should be, quite right. On a blue and a few clouds in the sky. The castle at the bottom, the million copy best-selling author of The Psychopath Test, Adventures in a World of Unraveling Men and fantastic and intensely of the... moment says patrick radden keith and if patrick likes it yeah and everyone it needs to pay attention also the Speaker 3 (6:54) castle and john ronson are slightly raised yeah what's that called it's called something embossed isn't it embossed john john ronson's embossed the castle is embossed Money has gone into this cover. Yes, it has. Yeah, Speaker 1 (7:09) it was designed by Richard Bravery at Penguin, who did a fantastic job. There's a real castle in the book, and the real castle is on a road of otherwise ordinary houses. You drive into the Connecticut forests, and it's like modest ranch home, modest ranch home, unbelievably ostentatious castle, Speaker 3 (7:30) newly built. Give us the intro. To the castle and your kids who come into the story right at the very beginning as to how you're writing about the castle and where this takes us. Speaker 1 (7:41) Yeah, this is a story that crashed unannounced into my life. I'm asleep and I wake up and there's a series of texts for my son. So I read the last text first and the last text said, we left. That was completely fucked. We're okay now. Speaker 3 (7:58) Oh, my. Wow. Speaker 1 (8:00) So then I read the other text and it turned out that he and three friends had been invited to a party being held by a stranger that one of them had met earlier that week on Tinder. So they drive. Parenting Speaker 3 (8:16) hackles. I know, right? It Speaker 1 (8:17) wasn't Joel who was invited. He was at Plus One. So they drive out, four of them drive out three hours into the forests of Connecticut. and arrive at this stranger's house. And it is a massive castle. Newly built, way too many turrets, gargoyles, a moat. It looks like Count Dracula would think this castle was a bit blah. So they cross the drawbridge, passing the castle owner, who has a huge guard dog. called Cerberus, Speaker 2 (8:53) named Speaker 1 (8:54) after the multi-headed hound that guards the gates of Hades. My dog is called Bonnie. Speaker 2 (9:01) There you go, Speaker 1 (9:02) that tells us everything. They enter the grand banqueting hall to find that there is no party. It's a trick. They've been lured there for another reason. There's a couple of other... young people standing awkwardly around. Nobody knows what they're doing here. Everybody thought they'd been invited to a party. So the castle owner comes out, but really interrupt at any point. No, no, no, that's right. We're just Speaker 3 (9:27) establishing the premise of the book and why it's called The Castle. Yes. Speaker 1 (9:31) This is like page one. I'm telling you it's Speaker 3 (9:33) page Speaker 1 (9:33) one. So the castle owner comes out and they say, sorry, where's the party? And he said, oh no, I've invited you here for another reason. I would like you all to take part in my reality show. So they said... Why don't they leave immediately? They said,