Books: Chores, Whores, and Scores

Shelf Respect

In this episode of Shelf Respect, hosts Knox McCoy and Jamie Golden are joined by New York Times bestselling author Kendra Adachi to explore three unique book

Key takeaways

• Popular books like Divergent can be objectively successful yet personally tedious, highlighting the gap between public acclaim and personal enjoyment.

Main topics

• Categorizing books as Chores, Whores, and Scores
• Personal literary disappointments and unexpected joys

Notable quotes

"I was not prepared. I don't know what I thought because I guess I had been reading Hunger Games and even, God forbid, Twilight." – Jamie Golden on Divergent

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a celebration of diverse reading experiences—embracing both the books that

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:09) Hello, welcome to Show Off Perspective, a podcast focused on both craft and chaos of fiction. I'm Knox McCoy. Join me as always. She just got cast on Dancing with the Stars. It's Jimmy Golden. Were there any surprises? I didn't see any surprises. No, Speaker 3 (0:20) it was other than Jenna Dewan got with Val. I don't know. Sure. Yeah. With apparently the best dancer. That's not fair. It was cheating a little bit. Speaker 1 (0:34) Yeah, I didn't like that. Well, in this episode, we're not gonna be talking Dancing with the Stars. We are going to be talking about, I don't know how else to explain this. I'm gonna explain it later, but just go with me. We're gonna talk about chore books, horror books, and score books. Don't worry, it'll be fine. Speaker 3 (0:47) Okay, but before we do that, did you know we have a fantastic master list of the best 233 nonfiction audiobooks curated by our Patreon community of hardbacks? And you can snag it this week for free by heading to the link in the show notes. We sorted these recs into multiple easy, super easy to understand categories like The Body is a Weird Wonderland, Women Be Tryin', Singers Live Lives Too, Normal Person, Great Writing, Mother Day, Nature is a B word. History, but make it riveting. And my personal favorite, cults never work out unless you're Tom Cruise. So Speaker 1 (1:23) these, Speaker 3 (1:24) you can get all of these books. We have their Goodreads score. We have their genre. It's such a great list. I've been slowly working through it. And every book that has been recommended has been a banger. And again, we drop the link in the show notes. Speaker 1 (1:38) Okay, we're excited to be here. Jamie, it's not just you and I, so everyone can have a deep sigh of relief. We are joined by a very special guest. Do you want to introduce her right now? Speaker 3 (1:48) I would. So sitting in for Erin in this episode is our beloved Kendra Adachi. Now, Kendra Adachi, the through line is she is a three-time New York Times bestselling author, which is more times than me. And me. Speaker 1 (2:04) Combined. Combined. That's right. Speaker 3 (2:06) And she is a nationally ranked podcaster of the podcast The Lazy Genius. Her favorite things. This was from your website. Can I read it? Oh, please. Speaker 2 (2:14) My favorite things include birds, which let me Speaker 3 (2:17) tell you, get on a boxer with Kendra and she sees a bird. She has lost the plot. Okay. Books, Speaker 2 (2:24) Oxford Shoes, and James McAvoy. I got the pleasure. Still Speaker 3 (2:27) true. Still true. I Speaker 2 (2:29) got Speaker 3 (2:29) the pleasure of being with her once when she got to see him perform in a play and it was stunning. She was different after. It was a spiritual experience. It was a spiritual experience. She lives with her husband of 20 plus years and her three kids in Greensboro, North Carolina. And the way we know, we've actually, we've known Kendra for over a decade. It started with her sending me an email in January 2016 where the subject line was friendship application. Speaker 2 (2:56) This doesn't work anymore because I don't read my email. But she Speaker 3 (3:02) sent an email and made a strong case, bullet points, bolded examples, hyperlinks of why she and I would be great friends because she had just started listening to the podcast because some friends had recommended it. And she was like, I like you and Knox. I think we should all be friends. And by God, we did it. And we became friends. Even though she did was like, even though we might not have the exact same taste in everything, that's a line. And I was like, she's listened to two episodes and she's already clocked us as different. Important Speaker 1 (3:34) caveat. Yeah, it was an important Speaker 3 (3:36) caveat. So we are honored, honored to have Kendra with us this week. All the links for everything Kendra are in the show notes. You must subscribe, download, follow. Look up how much mortgage she has left on her house. Actually, I don't think Speaker 1 (3:53) you do, actually. But Speaker 3 (3:54) I've looked it up. I don't think she's good. She's financially making good choices with the ways that you support her. So thank you for being here, Kendra. Your work with Zillow is just really something. Speaker 2 (4:03) It's Speaker 3 (4:03) really, well, it's impressive how much public data is out there about everyone. It's fair. It's fair. Be safe on them streets. Speaker 1 (4:10) We should partner with them. Cameo Close to the Pen or Zillow, like Celebrity House, value, like that should be an aspect. Like how much Speaker 3 (4:16) mortgage does Jennifer? uh, Garner have on that house. That's right. Speaker 1 (4:21) Yeah. I think that'd be wonderful. Well, Kendra, we're so excited you're with us. Um, and I, I mentioned the top, we're going to be talking chores, whores and score books. Um, I will explain that now. And as I do Kendra, your last warning, that whore could be a door if you want it. So just think on it as we talk. You have that option as the guest. We are going to be going through, each of us have selected a book that we think is a chore, meaning it's an objectively successful, a popular book that we just felt it was a chore to get through. We're going to pick a book we are a whore for or adore. And it's an unpopular book with a Goodreads score, maybe under 3.75 that we actually really enjoyed. And then we're going to talk about a score book, which is something backlist. We're going to say 10 years or older that we feel is underrated and. should be considered a score for anybody's to be read list. So Kendra, final answer, whore or adore? What do you think? Speaker 2 (5:14) I would never change you. So we're going to keep whore. It's great. I appreciate it. I appreciate someone coming Speaker 1 (5:20) into space and just be like, this isn't about me. I'm acclimating. It's not about me. No. I'm descending to hell. I'm just accepting hell for what it is. Speaker 3 (5:28) Yeah. Speaker 1 (5:28) So I'm excited for this conversation. I don't know what you guys have planned. I've got some spicy ones that we'll talk about. But Jamie, would you like to kick us off here? Speaker 3 (5:37) Okay. So with my chore, look, Shelf Respect listeners know that I have a lot of chores. The Correspondent, Throne of Glass, sorry. Where the Crawdads Sing. Now listen, do these books get better later? No. They are all Speaker 2 (5:54) DNS. Speaker 3 (5:55) Do they get better if you explain to me why you love them so much? Also, no, they do not get better. But I was thinking, what is a book where I literally was like, my expectations were so high and I was disappointed in ways that were unparalleled. And that is the book Divergent, the debut novel Speaker 2 (6:12) by Veronica Roth. Oh, Speaker 3 (6:14) no. Speaker 2 (6:15) Oh, no. Speaker 3 (6:16) But let me tell you why. This was written in 2011. I. know exactly when I read it, which was in 2014. I think I talked about it in the early days of the pop cast, our pop culture podcast, because I was so angry at this book. Now, for those who don't know, have you both, have y'all read Divergent, the book more than once? Speaker 1 (6:34) Yeah, I haven't because I remember the author being like, I think I can figure out this like YA dystopia thing and I can shart out like a bestseller and we're going to see if I do it. And she did it. She did. She freaking did it. Speaker 3 (6:46) I Speaker 1 (6:46) don't Speaker 3 (6:46) think I want Speaker 1 (6:46) to read a shart, you know? Speaker 3 (6:47) Now listen, I... I read this book after I saw the movie because I freaking loved the movie. How do you not love Theo James in a black tight tee? You have to, right? So I was like, oh, I bet the book is even better. And so this is set in post-apocalyptic Chicago. Obviously, we're all going. We're all going to the snowy winter and brutal heat of Chicago. when the world is ending. Okay. And so everyone in this post-apocalyptic world are, they're defined by their social and personality related affiliation with one of five love languages. Okay. So it's the dauntless, the amity, the erudite, the abnegation. There you go. Thank you. I know I'm dealing with two English majors. This is difficult anyway. And so this is obviously we have our Beatrice who goes by Tris. The worst on the in the moment nickname that she tries to create for herself really quick, by the way, because B was right there. But she's like, no, Speaker 2 (7:51) Tris. I like Tris. And then basically Theo Speaker 3 (7:55) James is for who she's going to stoop the crap out of. OK. And Speaker 2 (7:59) I loved it. OK. Speaker 3 (8:02) But here. Why was it successful? OK. Obviously, it was it literally won favorite book of the year on Goodreads for 2011. Wow. The series sold 32 million copies. Within three years, Veronica Roth had made $25 million post-tax from this series and from selling the rights for the movies. Now, why did I hate it? Okay, first, I was not prepared. I don't know what I thought because I guess I had been reading Hunger Games and even, God forbid, Twilight. Speaker 2 (8:37) When I opened this and the writing was so Speaker 3 (8:39) simplistic, like real simplistic, and I had no idea. I looked up the Flesh Kincaid reading level for this episode today. It's fifth grade. It's fifth grade. Okay. Speaker 1 (8:50) No kidding. Speaker 3 (8:51) It Speaker 1 (8:51) is YA, right? Isn't that the genre? It is, but they Speaker 3 (8:54) have, it's so violent and there's so much sex. I just wasn't prepared for middle schoolers to get that kind of lesson. This book debuted at number six on the New York Times. children's chapter books. I was like, I'm sorry. What's going on? Have we made it a rated R? Like everybody poops? Like, is that what's happened? I don't know. Anyway, she wrote this in college. Okay. I just don't know many people who are writing in college who are killing it on that first draft. Speaker 2 (9:26) But Speaker 3 (9:26) she apparently did. The faction system, listen, this faction system, it's like every personality system. And I do mean, Enneagram, Myers-Briggs, love languages, disc. If you spend more than 90 seconds thinking, can a society survive on this model? It won't. Like it falls apart immediately. And Speaker 2 (9:45) it Speaker 3 (9:45) doesn't. Speaker 2 (9:45) It Speaker 3 (9:46) doesn't, to be honest. It doesn't survive. And it doesn't survive. And I get that these factions are meant. I Speaker 1 (9:52) get Speaker 3 (9:53) metaphors for lunchroom clicks. I do get that you're trying to explain how, hey. Be yourself. And maybe you can be the chosen one. No, there's one. There's only one chosen one. Little Liam in the fifth grade reading this. He's not going to be four. He's going to be one of those a-holes in erudite, which, by the way, Veronica Roth hates intellectuals so much. I do believe wholeheartedly this was the beginning of the anti-science movement Speaker 2 (10:18) because she's Speaker 3 (10:20) so mean to anyone who thinks like she's like horrible people. Also, do y'all remember? So Knox, you won't know this, but this book is so Christian. I was not prepared. And look, as a lover, love Jesus. Big fan. Huge fan. Followed him a long Speaker 1 (10:39) time. I Speaker 3 (10:39) feel a butt Speaker 1 (10:39) coming up. Feel a big old butt coming up. Listen, Speaker 3 (10:42) this novel has like, well, listen, literally in the postscript of the novel, she says, thank you, God, for your son. Listen, if you thank the son. Because rappers don't even thank the sun. They just are like, thank you, God. Speaker 1 (10:57) They don't get Speaker 3 (10:58) into the Trinity as much. But when she was like, thank you, God, and for blessing me beyond comprehension. Speaker 1 (11:05) Rappers in the story? Is that what you're talking about? No, rappers on the Grammy stage. Just Speaker 3 (11:09) in Speaker 1 (11:09) general. They thank God. They always thank God. They Speaker 3 (11:13) always thank God for what I do. You know what I mean? Sure. But Veronica is not doing that. And so, but it does have like a lot of, it's kind of post-feminist, which you might imagine I don't love. Look, reading this as a sociology major and a women's studies major, I was like, this is so bad. Did you just, it almost makes me think AI did exist in 2010 at Veronica's college. And she put Hunger Games in there and said, make it different and easier. for Olivia at the middle school to read. And that's what it did. So to me, this was such a, I just, I really, I did not like this. And maybe it was my expectations, but Speaker 1 (11:58) it was not for me. Kendra, care to comment? Do you think RFK Jr., this is a formative text for RFK Jr. as he was cheating on his life in advance of the Maha movement? Speaker 2 (12:07) Here's what I do think. I think that I read this the year it came out. In 2011. And in 2011, I had a two-year-old and an infant. Speaker 1 (12:17) And all Speaker 2 (12:18) I wanted was a fifth grade reading level and four. That's all I wanted. Now, were the two follow-up books, Trash and the movies, the worst things you've ever seen? They were deeply disappointing. But Divergent itself, I think maybe, maybe, even though the five factions. While there are many holes, people... Speaker 1 (12:41) W-H-O-L-E-S or H-O-L-E-S? Important clarification. I Speaker 2 (12:46) do. I do think that like you can put your... It's like a Hogwarts house. It's like it's nice to sort of be like, I would be in that one. And it's simple enough and interesting enough that people who are tired of changing diapers just want to disappear too. And so maybe the audience was actually... people like me and not the teenagers. And we didn't care about being challenged from a literary standpoint. We just wanted a hot guy to do cool stuff. And I love to not be challenged in a literary sense. Speaker 3 (13:17) I love it. I love a dragon that's just a dragon and a guy who rides him and then rides that lady. Like I love Speaker 1 (13:24) it. Speaker 3 (13:24) That's exactly right. I guess my real beef is probably I didn't have, I wouldn't have been in a faction. I don't know what happened to the faction list. Speaker 1 (13:32) Oh, okay. Speaker 3 (13:33) Because it's, because where would you put me? Each of you on the spot. Brave, peaceful, intelligent, selfless, or Speaker 2 (13:39) honest. Maybe on it. Maybe I would put you in candor. What does Speaker 1 (13:43) divergent mean? Speaker 2 (13:44) You have more than one that you are, you don't belong clearly in one faction that you are divergent and have. And you have to be murdered if you're divergent. You Speaker 3 (13:52) have to Speaker 2 (13:52) be murdered. Yeah. It's illegal to be divergent. Speaker 3 (13:55) Yeah. Speaker 2 (13:56) You have to stay in your lane. Yeah. I would definitely put you in candor if I had to. Speaker 1 (14:00) I agree with candor. Which she had to add Speaker 3 (14:02) later. Speaker 2 (14:03) Like she Speaker 3 (14:03) said, I had to add candor at the end because I realized, oh, there's like, what do I do with all these losers? And she was like, I guess I'll put them here. Hate them. Hate them. Speaker 1 (14:13) Jamie, so just to confirm, you like the movie. Love the Speaker 3 (14:18) movie. Speaker 1 (14:18) You really like the movie. You hated the Speaker 3 (14:20) book. Love it. Hated the book. Speaker 1 (14:23) Care to comment? Movie, the Rotten Tomatoes score for Divergent is 41%. Speaker 3 (14:27) Oh, that's too high. It should be lower. Speaker 1 (14:30) Oh, it should be worse. No, Speaker 3 (14:32) it should be worse. But that's what I'm saying. I'm a whore for the movie, but the book was a chore. You're mixing Speaker 1 (14:40) streams here already. Shailene Speaker 3 (14:42) Woodley is such a bad Tris. She should have been B. She should have been B because she's so bad as Tris. But Theo James, that's kind of how most of us were introduced to Theo James. It's true. And he imprinted on us whether we had toddlers or we were just a lady in her 30s. I had Speaker 1 (15:01) to Speaker 3 (15:01) go to counseling. Speaker 2 (15:03) I had to go to counseling because of four. Because of four. Okay, Speaker 1 (15:06) embrace debate. Is it like, is he too hot? Shailene Woodley is a fine Tris, but he's so hot and like masculine. He like overrides what she's able to do. It's Speaker 3 (15:17) like Speaker 1 (15:17) it distorts the movie. Speaker 2 (15:18) They had good chemistry. They did have good chemistry. But Speaker 3 (15:20) she's so Speaker 2 (15:20) like, she just flicks her ponytail a lot. and like, you know, looks into corners. And so she's a bit too moody maybe to like match him. She doesn't have actual skills. Speaker 3 (15:32) She does not have actual skills. Whereas like Katniss, skills for days. Skills Speaker 2 (15:38) for Speaker 3 (15:39) days. But unfortunately, so I would say if you're going to, I would skip this and just read Hunger Games. No one reads Speaker 2 (15:46) Divergent. No one reads Divergent for Tris. You read Divergent for four. Yeah. That's what you do. Speaker 1 (15:53) So I'm currently taking, there's on Epic Reads, there's a quiz you can take to find out what faction you would be in, in Divergent. So when I finish that, I'll report back. Speaker 3 (16:02) I look forward to it. I love that you think it's not intelligent. I was going to say, why would it not be Erudite? You should Speaker 2 (16:09) know that Speaker 3 (16:09) right away. You're Erudite. Yeah. Speaker 1 (16:10) I honestly, listening to those factions is a chore for me. And I can't remember what they were. I just remember. Speaker 3 (16:18) And listen, the funny thing is Erudite is like librarians. Speaker 3 (16:23) scientists, pop culture podcasters. So it makes sense. It says, Speaker 1 (16:27) according to epicreads.com slash blogs slash news slash divergent, I would be in candor. That's what it says. Speaker 3 (16:34) Okay. Kendra, would you be, I would put you in dauntless. Are you in dauntless? I think you're brave. Are you insane? Birds are scary. Speaker 2 (16:44) I don't like to go outside. I watch them through a window. First of all. Those people have to jump off Speaker 3 (16:50) trains. No. Wearing Oxford shoes is brave because the burlisters abound. Like, that's Speaker 2 (16:57) a Speaker 3 (16:57) brave. A pointy toe? No, that's brave. Speaker 2 (16:59) I have narrow feet. It works just fine. No, I would be either. I mean, I feel like the slow pitch is erudite. But there is part of me that, like, if left to my own devices, candor all day. Like, let's just. Let's just come on. Let's just move. What are we doing? That's fair. That's fair. This Speaker 1 (17:19) episode is sponsored by Quince. You know those pieces in your closet that you reach for over and over again? The sweater that works with everything, the jeans you trust to fit just right, or the bag that you carry everywhere? Well, those are the pieces that are in a permanent place in your wardrobe, and that's exactly what Quince does so well. Quince makes elevated everyday essentials using premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and washable silk. Their designs are timeless. thoughtfully crafted and made to be worn again and again. 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