A Plot to Die For by Ardal O'Hanlon with Ardal O'Hanlon

Sara & Cariad's Weirdos Book Club

Hosts Sara and Cariably Lloyd welcome comedian and author Ardal O'Hanlon to discuss his new detective thriller, A Plot to Die For. The conve

Key takeaways

• Ardal O'Hanlon's protagonist, Finn O'Leary, is a celebrity gardener who returns to his hometown of Abbeyford.
• The fictional setting of Abbeyford is inspired by real southeastern Irish towns such as Waterford, Wexford, New Ross, and Kilkenny.

Main topics

• A Plot to Die For
• Cozy Crime Fiction

Notable quotes

I'm good at Googling.

Conclusion

An insightful discussion on how a comedian's observational skills and

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:04) I'm Sarah Speaker 3 (0:04) Pascoe. And I'm Cariad Lloyd. And we're weird about Speaker 4 (0:07) books. We love to read. We read too much. We talk too much. About the too much that we've read. Which is why we created the Weirdos Book Club. A space for the lonely outsider to feel accepted and appreciated. Speaker 3 (0:18) Each week we're joined by amazing comedian guests and writer guests to discuss some wonderfully and crucially weird books, writing, reading and just generally being a weirdo. You Speaker 4 (0:26) don't even need to have read the books to join in. It'll be a really interesting, wide-ranging conversation and maybe you'll want to read the book afterwards. Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you. Speaker 3 (0:37) This week's book is A Plot to Die For by Ardell O'Hanlon. What's it about? Finn O'Leary is a celebrity gardener returning to his hometown of Abbeyford in Ireland, but it's not long before he's roped into solving a Speaker 4 (0:48) murder. What qualifies it for the Weirdos Book Club? Well, you won't notice how macabre it is because of its chirpy exterior. In Speaker 3 (0:54) this episode, we discuss... Ulysses. Death in Paradise. Tidy Towns. Alan Titmouse. Stand-up comedy. And murder. Joining us this week is Ardell himself. You know Arlo Hanlon. He's incredible, brilliant comedian, actor and writer. You know him from Father Ted. You know him from Death in Paradise. You know him. He's so Speaker 4 (1:10) brilliant. And he joined us Speaker 3 (1:11) himself in the studio. Speaker 4 (1:17) Welcome to the podcast, Ardalo Hanlon and his book, A Plot to Die For. Great title. A brilliant title. Yeah, I like the Speaker 3 (1:27) title. Speaker 4 (1:27) And beautiful Speaker 3 (1:27) cover. Speaker 4 (1:27) It's the kind of book, they think, when it's sitting in your house, even, you just keep picking it up. That's very jolly. I Speaker 3 (1:33) want to Speaker 4 (1:33) have Speaker 3 (1:33) a Speaker 4 (1:33) delightful time. Yeah, you Speaker 2 (1:34) don't have to read it. Just look at Speaker 3 (1:36) the book. Speaker 2 (1:37) Did Speaker 3 (1:37) your title come first? Speaker 2 (1:38) No, the title came really late. I was really panicking about a title, actually. Speaker 3 (1:41) Because you need it. Because it's a detective thriller. You have to have murder or death. or something like Speaker 2 (1:45) that in the title and something that gives you some sort of hint as to the kind of theme or the background. And there's a gardening theme, so a plot to die for. Speaker 4 (1:55) I've only just got that. Speaker 3 (1:59) I should have wrote an explanatory note on the Speaker 2 (2:01) cover. Speaker 3 (2:02) I just kept thinking, Speaker 4 (2:02) what a clever plot. It's a plot. Speaker 2 (2:04) I Speaker 4 (2:04) thought the play on words was a to die for was the play on words. No, Manny Laird. No, Speaker 2 (2:09) but it came really late and it was like, I had lots of discussions with my editor because I had titles like Bloomin' Murder. Speaker 1 (2:17) Oh, yeah. It's not really a phrase, is it? Bloomin' Murder, yeah. I Speaker 2 (2:21) know, I Speaker 1 (2:21) know. Speaker 2 (2:21) And then, you know, just, yeah. We went through hundreds of them and then eventually we sort of settled on the plot to Die for. Speaker 4 (2:27) That's good. It's Speaker 2 (2:28) a Speaker 4 (2:28) great title. Speaker 3 (2:29) I Speaker 4 (2:29) love the Irishism. It makes scenes jump off the page. Speaker 2 (2:33) Yeah. For me, like writing a book, it's like it's really important to have a sense of place. You know, just and like, you know, Ireland and Britain are very similar in lots of ways, but there are, you know. Very Speaker 3 (2:43) different in other ways. Yeah, culturally. Very different in other ways, Speaker 2 (2:46) culturally and every other way. I mean, even though we're so close together geographically. Like just given our, like the way we developed kind of very differently. Like we didn't have an industrial revolution, for example. We didn't have the Reformation in Ireland. And these are like massive seismic kind of movements. And we didn't have those really. Like we remained very agrarian like for centuries. Speaker 2 (3:14) You know, so I think we just evolved slightly differently. Speaker 3 (3:17) Can I ask a stupid question? Is Abbeyford a real place? That Speaker 2 (3:20) was one Speaker 3 (3:20) thing I didn't know. Speaker 2 (3:21) No, but it's based on real places. Because Speaker 3 (3:25) the level of detail that you have when you're talking about like the high street and the shops and I was like, I felt like, oh. Either he's done an amazing job of a place that's real or you're sort of protecting a town because it felt like a real town. So if you'd named it, we'd all want to visit it. So it's like you've changed the name so that not hundreds of visitors don't turn up and destroy that. Speaker 2 (3:44) Yeah, I actually did spend a little bit of time because I had two previous novels and they're both set in border towns, which have a different character than this town of Abbeyford. Like they're kind of, people are reserved by, you know, by nature, like just given the... proximity to the border and the troubles and a long history of smuggling and everything, you know, people are just kind of, there's an omerta. And, you know, the towns have a certain character as well, just given where they're situated in the country. So I was looking for something sunnier down in the southeast of Ireland. So there are towns like Waterford, Wexford, New Ross, Enniscorthy, Kilkenny even. Clayton Kilkenny, and you know what that town's like. So it's got a lovely river in the middle of it and, you know, lovely public buildings, you know, great history, Anglo-Norman kind of history. So I was looking for all of that. So it is a composite of a few towns, but I did spend a lot of time just taking photographs of these places and just visiting them and hanging out, sitting in cafes. Oh, Speaker 4 (4:41) that makes a lot of sense because some of the buildings' descriptions felt so real. Speaker 2 (4:45) Yeah, but when I'm reading books, I don't know about you, like I want this kind of, I want to be transported. Speaker 3 (4:49) Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 (4:50) You know, I'm thinking of... books like Barbara Kingsolver, Demon Copperhead or something. Like you've got a real sense of place. You're there. You're in the Appalachians and, Speaker 4 (4:58) you Speaker 2 (4:59) know, Lee County or whatever. And you get a sense of the people and the place. Speaker 4 (5:03) Yeah. My favourite Irishism is when someone, just at the beginning of scenes when someone goes, oh, it's yourself. That's just such a wonderful greeting, isn't Speaker 2 (5:12) it? Speaker 3 (5:12) Yeah, yeah. And there was one. spelling of how are you how are you yeah all together which i yeah h-o Speaker 2 (5:18) -w-a-r-y-a i think it'd be like you know you know the magazine hello in the uk yeah like our version that would be how are you how Speaker 4 (5:26) are you how are you would it still have an exclamation mark not Speaker 3 (5:29) a question mark yeah so tell us about it tell us about our detective and what the story is about finn Speaker 2 (5:35) o'leary is his name he's a celebrity gardener who's had a good career in britain He's been on radio. He's got a show on Radio 4, a very confessional sort of a radio show where people ring in with their gardening questions. But, you know, you know, the people who are ringing in aren't really talking about their gardening issues. They're lonely and they want to talk to somebody who's a good, attentive listener. He's also got a show on TV called Garden Nightmares, where he kind of helps people with their terrible, massive gardening problems. But anyway, he's at a loose end in his life. His marriage is kind of failing. He's in his sort of early 40s. And his mother is really sick back home in Abbeyford, this fictional town. So he comes back to Ireland to help care for his elderly mother. And very, very quickly, he ends up involved in murder investigations. Speaker 3 (6:23) Yeah, I don't think it's a spoiler to say very quickly, somebody dies. Somebody dies. A choir fax. He brings his Speaker 2 (6:27) mother to the choir. Yeah, Speaker 4 (6:28) and it really is sort of almost like the second sort of, we meet a little set of characters. Straight away. Straight away. Straight away. We're in there. Someone has. been brutally murdered at the Speaker 3 (6:37) choir. We don't Speaker 4 (6:38) know it's murder at the beginning, actually. Speaker 3 (6:39) Yeah, Speaker 4 (6:39) it Speaker 2 (6:39) doesn't look great. It's Speaker 3 (6:41) a Speaker 2 (6:41) little bit vague, but, you know, people have their suspicions. They die quite gruesomely, I guess. They do, during a rendition of What the World Needs. Speaker 4 (6:46) Yeah. Cariad, you don't read a lot of crime fiction, do Speaker 3 (6:49) you? Speaker 4 (6:49) I don't, no. I'm scared of crime fiction. This is probably the most gruesome of murder, because I was thinking, very mild death. Oh, I know, it's quite Speaker 3 (6:54) gruesome. It starts, like, foaming at the mouth. Not a patch Speaker 2 (6:57) on the second murder, which is my favourite murder in literary fiction. Speaker 4 (7:02) But yeah, Sarah reads more hardcore. I would say all kinds. because it's my favourite kind of storytelling. I feel like it's the deepest thing of finding out what happened. All stories are, tell me what happened. Speaker 2 (7:13) People Speaker 4 (7:14) like yourself, they hide information from you. So you're adding together, deducing things as you go. And the brain just enjoys it so much. Speaker 2 (7:22) Well, this is what I love about crime fiction is like when you set out to write a novel, even a genre novel or even a sub-genre novel, because I think this falls into the category. of cozy crime. Speaker 4 (7:34) You're Speaker 2 (7:35) still setting out to write the best novel in the world. Speaker 4 (7:37) And Speaker 2 (7:37) you're still kind of, you know, as well as having a ticking clock and all the tropes of crime fiction, you are, I suppose, processing real feelings on the page. You are covering all your pet themes, your peeves, all of those things. So, you know, you've got these real world themes. I mean, for me, like a massive theme is family and community. Speaker 2 (8:00) We can get on to that in a minute. Like there's a there's a backdrop of this thing called the Tidy Towns competition, which kind of, I suppose, typifies that like almost demented sense of community that people in Ireland have. And so, you know, you've got and you know, this this obligation to one's ailing parents would be another theme. You know, you've got this mother son relationship at the heart of it, I suppose. You're trying to create this like rich community full of characters that you try to develop as far as possible. Everyone has a story. Everyone has a backstory. You know, the town is a history, which is a microcosm of Irish history. It's Speaker 4 (8:33) amazing because actually you as a writer, you do, sometimes you tell us a really interesting fact. Sometimes you are doing a comedian's observation. It's very funny. It's Speaker 2 (8:41) very, Speaker 4 (8:41) very funny. Speaker 3 (8:42) It never Speaker 4 (8:42) interrupts it, but you do have, there are set pieces. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which Speaker 3 (8:47) are Speaker 4 (8:47) just observational, you know, whether it's biscuits or traffic lights. And Speaker 3 (8:50) they're two police officers, Valerie and Special. There we are, yeah. So-called Special because his initials are FX. It's your fancy saviour, which really made me laugh. And being low-level famous. You're Speaker 4 (9:02) very, very funny about that. And obviously someone like yourself, you and Father Ted, which is such a huge show that means such a lot to people. I'm sure you have had, just like Finn O'Leary, had the whole spectrum of approaches from people pretending they don't know who you are. Finn observes, doesn't he, like the people Speaker 3 (9:17) who are most, it's not rude, but like never mentioned anything with this career turn out to be the biggest fans because they're the ones who can't even say that. And I know that position of being a comedy fan. you know, when you start in comedy and you're talking to someone, I once, I was at a gig with Norman Lovett, who of course was Holly in Red Dwarf. I Speaker 4 (9:34) remember Speaker 3 (9:34) Norman so well, yeah, I used to. Yeah, but I had to, I had to play it cool. I was like acting like no big deal, no big deal. And then, then he just said something like, oh God, you know, sometimes people like really love Red Dwarf. And I was like, yeah, Speaker 4 (9:45) yeah, yeah. I Speaker 3 (9:46) was like, I'm sitting there thinking like, I've watched every episode of like every series more than once. Speaker 4 (9:51) He's like a professional actor. Speaker 3 (9:52) Yeah, I had to just like call it out. But again, you must have had that with Part of the Day. For Speaker 2 (9:56) this character, Finn O'Leary, yeah, I mean, there's definitely, I can relate to him. I mean, all your characters are sort of loosely based on some aspect of yourself. Like you splinter when you're writing into multiple voices. Speaker 4 (10:07) I think this is true of actors, actually, who are great writers. So you are playing all the characters. You Speaker 2 (10:13) are. And as you're writing them, like you're literally mimicking them. And also, like even with the stand up background, you know, you're afraid you're going to lose their attention. So, you know, you will throw in Speaker 1 (10:23) a Speaker 2 (10:23) joke or something, you know, because like, you know, and obviously on stage, you're very exposed and your obligation is to be compelling at all times. And if you can bring that into your writing, that's great. But like for Finn, you know, that kind of experience with sort of fame or celebrity, you know, all horrible words, horrible terminology. It kind of like, and this is something that I can absolutely relate to. People will confide in you. People, strangers will come up to you and tell you their life story. I've had murderers recounting in great detail Speaker 3 (10:53) their Speaker 2 (10:54) murder and conviction and imprisonment. Speaker 3 (10:58) Is this since writing, not because they thought you were a priest? No, no, no, no. I just Speaker 2 (11:01) meet lots of murderers. Speaker 3 (11:04) How was that? How did you cope with that? Well, I mean, I was Speaker 2 (11:07) scared Speaker 3 (11:08) and I tried to Speaker 2 (11:08) get away. This was, you know. someone who had served his time and um he he you know i just met him at a party and he just told me his experience and you know it's always interesting to hear people's stories yeah Speaker 3 (11:19) yeah Speaker 2 (11:19) um And I remember even like from a very early age, I remember like my dad was a doctor, a GP, and I used to go and call with him. Speaker 3 (11:27) And Speaker 2 (11:27) I remember like when I was eight or nine, going to a house where somebody had taken someone else's life and he was out in bail and he was under sedation under the care of his family doctor. I remember sitting at the table and like I couldn't believe my eyes as a kid, as a wide eyed, impressionable child, Speaker 4 (11:44) talking Speaker 2 (11:45) to this man across the table, eating the Marietta biscuits and drinking the tea. And it's gone, this is a murderer. Yeah. And it was incredibly exciting. Early Speaker 4 (11:55) experience for you. I don't think there are many cosy crime writers that have been that close to real murder. I'm uniquely Speaker 2 (12:03) qualified. Speaker 4 (12:03) I don't think it's a pejorative term because actually I think the reason that cosy crime is beloved is because we get to enjoy the storytelling but know that we're in safe hands. And it's not going to make us feel really bleak afterwards. There might be happy endings. There might be a love story. That's what cozy crime means. Yeah, Speaker 3 (12:18) you're not constantly Speaker 4 (12:18) being like, oh God, this is awful. But Speaker 3 (12:20) I Speaker 4 (12:20) think some people write it