Kim Carnes chats to Gary Kemp and Guy Pratt about her career in music

Rockonteurs with Gary Kemp and Guy Pratt

In this episode of Rockonteurs, hosts Gary Kemp and Guy Pratt interview legendary singer-songwriter Kim Carnes about her expansive musical j

Key takeaways

Kim Carnes is releasing a comprehensive 10 CD box set titled 'Kim Carnes - Universal Songs: The A&M, EMI America & MCA Years' on October 23rd.
Her massive hit 'Bette Davis Eyes' was heavily influenced by the UK New Wave and synth-pop sounds of bands like Duran Duran and Gary Numan.
Carnes recounts her first professional recording experience involving a session with blues legend Big Mama Thornton.
She describes a deep, three-year touring friendship with David Cassidy, acting as his opening act while navigating his intense fame.
The episode details the creation of 'Make No Mistable,' a duet written by Carnes specifically for Barbra Streisand.

Main topics

Kim Carnes Box Set Release
New Wave and 80s Pop influences
Collaborations with David Cassidy and Kenny Rogers

Notable quotes

I really knew at three years old... I'm going to be a singer.

Conclusion

A nostalgic and deeply informative retrospective that highlights the v

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) If you like listening to Rock On Tours, then we would Speaker 4 (0:02) love you to subscribe to us permanently. So hit subscribe wherever you get your podcasts from. Speaker 3 (0:09) Hello, Gary. Hello, Guy. Now, Gary, Speaker 4 (0:13) the day that we're recording this, it might not be quite the same when this goes out, but I've got a feeling it won't have quite abated because today, all over the country, or certainly on Radio 4, it's bio-tapestry fever. Biotapistry madness. Everyone's all over it. It springs to mind. It's like, Gary, you remember when we were kids, you remember when Toot and Carmoon came to town? Yeah, I do. I do. Came to the Blitz Club, actually. Speaker 3 (0:38) Oh, was that someone else? Someone who definitely looked like him. Yeah, Speaker 4 (0:43) I met him at Speaker 3 (0:43) Tenor. Speaker 4 (0:45) There's a little fact I'd like to bring up regarding the biotapistry, which is that when... Speaker 3 (0:50) Is Speaker 4 (0:51) this Speaker 3 (0:51) the rest is... No, Speaker 4 (0:53) no, it's relevant. It's a nice rock-on-tours factoid. When Charlie Watts died and, you know, his estate was auctioned, and as we, of course, knew, as he was in life, all the stuff that went on, he was a man of immense sophistication. And all the stuff that went on, so there were things like an incredible collection of first editions and stuff. Like, for instance, there was a copy, a first edition of Tender is the Night, inscribed by F. Scott Fitzgerald to Giacometti. It was that sort of stuff. Oh, my God. And one of the things he had was this... full-size, this giant taken in 1872, a photograph of the Bayeux Tapestry that was bought by the Bayeux Tapestry Museum because it became absolutely essential and priceless as an aid for restoration and maintenance of the Bayeux Tapestry because they could see exactly where it was in 1872. Because the Victorians did some restoration, didn't they? And it must have been after that. Probably. And so, so Charlie Watt. So Charlie Watt actually did a great service in the, in the sort of, what's the word? Preservation of the bio tapestry. Speaker 3 (2:04) Oh my word. That's incredible. Have you, have you got your tickets? I've seen it. You've seen it? In Boho. Oh, did you? Yeah, yeah. Is it like a sort of Roger Dean gatefold sleeve? Speaker 4 (2:17) It's like Ulysses. It goes on a bit. You kind of lose it. It's like Uzi? Sorry, I forgot. Uzi? I can't remember. I have to go back. But it Speaker 3 (2:25) was Speaker 4 (2:25) the Spielberg of his time. I mean, you're right. It's Speaker 3 (2:28) like the Odyssey, isn't it? Yeah. Speaker 4 (2:30) You meant to say the Odyssey, didn't you? I didn't mean to say the Odyssey. You said Ulysses. Obviously, because I was... Which also goes on Speaker 3 (2:35) a bit, 24 hours of it, which takes about four years to read. It's an amazing thing. I'd like to go and see that. And I hope Charlie gets his credit. Speaker 4 (2:44) Yeah, exactly. Speaker 3 (2:45) Our Speaker 4 (2:45) guest today, Speaker 3 (2:47) Kim Carnes. Kim Carnes. You know, I mean, obviously, Betty Davis Eyes is an enormous record. Speaker 4 (2:55) European, that record sounded compared to anything coming out of Speaker 3 (2:59) America. And how she had seemed in such an early time to have plugged into... let's call it the new romantic scene, right? What was going on in England, including in the video, when it's like a scene from the Blitz Club, isn't it? That's right, yeah. Speaker 4 (3:15) Although in America, they called that New Wave, didn't they? All that stuff was lumped in as New Wave. And I think for a lot of our listeners, that might be the start and the end of their knowledge of Kim Khan, and in which case they're going to be in for a big surprise. Speaker 3 (3:30) They are, because it's so diverse, and there's so many people, hugely famous people involved. in her career and success that goes on and on. And I know that Kim is going to be a revelation to most of our listeners, I think is the word. So should we get her on? Okay, guys, I'm ready. Speaker 4 (3:50) You know this thing about the 10,000 hours of experience? When we recorded Arnold Lane, we'd done about 50 hours. Speaker 2 (3:56) I love the fact he's dancing to it naked. Like, it's so hedonistic. Speaker 4 (4:00) What you're doing, my opinion. He's basically an oral history of rock and roll. I'm in a band now. It's called Roxy Music. He started Speaker 3 (4:07) playing that as his main guitar. So it was his main guitar, so I just said, you can have it. Speaker 4 (4:11) Thank you guys for still being around, still making music, still being into it, and doing this podcast. It's fabulous. Speaker 1 (4:18) Everyone in the band was completely disengaged from their partners while we made Rumours. Speaker 4 (4:25) That's Speaker 1 (4:25) a Speaker 4 (4:25) big tune for sure. I actually wrote that originally for Tina Turner. The Rock Onsers Podcast. with Gary Kemp and Guy Pratt. Speaker 2 (4:33) Keep on rocking! Speaker 2 (4:38) Yay! Hallelujah. Speaker 3 (4:40) Hello, Kim. Speaker 2 (4:41) Hello. Thrilled to be talking to you guys. Oh, my gosh. Beyond. Speaker 3 (4:47) We're thrilled to be talking to Speaker 4 (4:49) you. Is that your bookcase behind you? Behind me? Yeah. Speaker 2 (4:52) Yes. Yeah. Speaker 4 (4:54) What a fabulous collection of trinkets. It's a room Speaker 2 (4:59) upstairs. That's our favorite room in the house because it has a ping pong table. And my son, Rye, and I. have ping pong matches all the time. It's great fun. Speaker 4 (5:09) For the sake of our listeners who can't see it, I'm sure the ping pong's very nice, but there are just, there are, there are Grammys and there are awards. MTV, there's an MTV award. There's everything here. So, yeah, it's not the ping pong we're interested in. Speaker 3 (5:26) Congratulations on the box set. Yes. Thank you. Does it feel like, does that feel heavy? Does that feel like, wow, I can't believe that's all me? Speaker 2 (5:37) Well, I'm going to love having those albums in one place, all in a box. Two years of putting albums out in different moves, things get misplaced and where's this? I'll have them all. And the best part is fans are super excited to have them all in one place. The only albums not included. or my very first album and my last album, which I own, Face and Wild Rays. So those are only two aren't included, but I'm really happy to have it all together. Speaker 3 (6:14) And can we say that they're not your last, they're not your final record? Speaker 2 (6:20) Oh, yeah. Actually, my next project, I'm working on a bonus track to put out a limited vinyl release of my... Last album, Chasing Wild Trains. And I'm excited to do that. Yeah, you guys know your artists. We're so lucky to all do what we love. Why would you stop? Speaker 3 (6:39) There is that. Absolutely. But to have it all contained now, you know, it's your legacy is there. Speaker 2 (6:46) Yeah. I mean, it's super cool. And I love a gentleman, David Ackerman in the UK, came up with this idea of the box set. It was easy to say, yes, let's go ahead and do it. And it's been incredible to go through a million photos and pick the ones that are best. A lot of Tamden shots. And I'm just excited. I think the biggest thing, and you guys know this, fans have their favorites and they know those pets and talk about them. But there's tons of people out there. that only know songs that were singles. And so I hope with this box set that it'll turn some people on to the deeper cuts that are my favorites, most of them, and band favorites also that weren't necessarily singles. So that's my hope. Speaker 3 (7:42) But it's been great exploring it. And obviously, you know, this is a good excuse to talk about your career and you even as, you know, just starting out. You grew up in Pasadena, right? I Speaker 2 (7:52) did, yes. When did you Speaker 3 (7:53) realize that... your voice and your songwriting were to take you through your life? Speaker 2 (7:58) I really knew at three years old. That is extraordinary Speaker 4 (8:01) to know anything at three years old. Speaker 2 (8:04) How lucky am I that I didn't have to wonder, what am I going to do? I always said to people, I'm going to be a singer. I'm going to write songs. And again, growing up in Pasadena, my family wasn't in the business. My dad played the piano, but my parents weren't musical at Speaker 1 (8:21) all, Speaker 2 (8:21) except for my dad playing. I always knew I wanted to sing and be a songwriter. And growing up in the Pasadena area, no one I knew growing up had anything to do with the music business. Where that came from, who knows? But I'm really grateful that I was born knowing that this is what I wanted to do. So I left Pasadena as quickly as I could and drove over the freeway to Hollywood. where the recording studios were, and just made it a point to start taking my songs to publishers. Actually, the very first thing I did, and I wasn't even 16 yet because I couldn't drive. I sang with my best girlfriend, Jane, and I wrote all the songs. And we got an older friend who could drive to take us across to Hollywood. And we went into a studio, the first studio we drove by. and said, we want to make a record. And the man running the studio said, okay, well, for $200, you can record four songs. I played the piano, we sang, and you'll leave here with a record. So we went home and washed cars and whatever we could do to earn the money, came back and recorded four songs. And the man in charge said, well, I'm going to Australia for six months, but when I get back. You're going to be my first project. Well, after about four or five months, we couldn't wait any longer. And we drove over to the studio to see if he was back yet. The studio was boarded up, closed down. First lesson. Don't believe everybody. Anyway, that was definitely my first lesson. You Speaker 4 (10:07) went into writing first, it seemed, didn't you? That's where you got your first. I mean, your first cut is actually quite extraordinary. Speaker 2 (10:15) First. That was Big Mama Thornton. We were in the studio and Big Mama came in with her bodyguards, a guy on each side of her. And she went up to the mic and she started to sing to the song I'd written. It just wasn't happening for her. And she said, you know what? We're going to leave for a while and then we'll come back. And I thought, what if she never comes back? They did come back. And Big Mama had a paper bag. that she carried to the mic and went, sang it perfectly, one take. Speaker 4 (10:53) I Speaker 2 (10:54) asked her afterwards what she was drinking, and it was wild turkey. And she did a fabulous vocal, and that was it. And I was so excited. As a writer, what a great first cut. I mean, just perfect. Speaker 3 (11:11) Because this film is quite a cult classic. I mean, Steven Spielberg says it's one of his favorite films. Edgar Wright based Driver on it, Baby Driver. So this is like to be involved. And of course, there were other artists like Mountain were playing on it. It was hugely countercultural, wasn't it? Speaker 2 (11:27) Yes. At the time, they kept calling it an underground cult hit. But it has definitely lasted the test of time. I have read what you're talking about, all the people like Spielberg that loves that movie. And I was just really glad to be a part of it. As a young writer, being able to write for a film. And then I also sang the title song, Nobody Knows, which was my very first single I put out. So I was really happy. Did you Speaker 3 (11:58) find that you were associated then with the sort of counterculturalists? Did it become like, or did it affect your writing? Yeah, it was. Speaker 2 (12:06) change my writing at all. But I've always preferred left field projects, not the norm, not right down the middle. My favorite artists fall into that category. My tastes have always been a little wacky. And I loved that film from the first time I saw the rough cuts and was going to write for it. But it was right. It was everything I love for sure. Speaker 3 (12:34) We will get to the wacky stuff because honestly, you're suddenly loving Gary Newman seems to have changed your life as well. But let's go, I wanted to ask you about the new Christy Minstrels. You Speaker 2 (12:45) know, I only was part of that as a replacement a couple of times. I was never a real member. A girl would leave and they'd call me and I'd go on the road and replace her for like two or three weeks. So there's that. The only good thing