Why Getting Off Antidepressants Can Be Harder Than Heroin | Dr. Teralyn Sell

Rise Above with Kevin Lanning

Dr. Teralyn Sell discusses the profound challenges of discontinuing antidepressants, comparing withdrawal experiences to heroin addiction. D

Key takeaways

• Antidepressant withdrawal can feel as intense as drug addiction due to neurological dependence.
• SSRIs may cause permanent side effects like sexual dysfunction (PSSD), which are rarely disclosed upfront.

Main topics

• Antidepressant withdrawal and addiction-like symptoms
• SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction (PSSD)

Notable quotes

"I felt like an addict during these times. Like I'm dope sick and I'm searching for friends to give me a hit."

Conclusion

Dr. Sell emphasizes the urgent need for transparency about antidepressant risks,

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:04) The Speaker 3 (0:05) city moves fast, but your vibe, that's different. Sharper, smoother, more alive. Speaker 2 (0:15) The new Speaker 3 (0:20) Honda City isn't just made to drive, it's made to feel. The new Honda City, all new vibe. Speaker 5 (0:28) So then what did I do? Well, I either ask a friend for help that I knew was on the same thing because it would be like Sunday and Speaker 4 (0:35) the Speaker 5 (0:36) pharmacists are closed. Like I literally felt like an addict during these times. Speaker 4 (0:40) Like if Speaker 5 (0:41) I if any description would be that like I'm dope sick and I'm searching for friends to give me a hit. Right. Like that's the way I felt. Speaker 4 (0:54) So I have been having a lot of professionals on, and you are just that. Truly. A psychotherapist specializing in addiction. You have worked in max security prisons. You have a lot of experience. You've seen it all. Speaker 5 (1:11) And then some. Speaker 4 (1:12) And then some. Speaker 5 (1:13) And Speaker 4 (1:14) you also, you were telling me right before we were about to go live about your journey with SSRIs, which I definitely want to jump into because. I talk about this all the time in all of my episodes. It's a huge topic, Speaker 5 (1:26) especially in the addiction community right now. Speaker 4 (1:28) Exactly. Drug addiction, alcoholism, gambling, sex addiction. Those are the symptoms that always ties back to the mental health. Always. It does. Speaker 5 (1:37) And if we want to get real real, I believe the addiction population is the next population moving into. psychiatric medication dependency then. Speaker 2 (1:50) So, Speaker 5 (1:50) you know, I'm sure you've talked about it. You've seen it. You come out of inpatient rehabs, whatever, and you're suddenly on a stack of psychiatric medication. I'm a product Speaker 4 (2:00) of that. Speaker 5 (2:01) Yeah. And that's a problem. That's a problem. And I think it's a problem in the addiction world because they're not talking about it the way the mental health world is talking about it yet. Because I believe the addiction world is still talking about it as the solution still. And that's where a lot of people in just the mental health side of things are becoming trapped. So yeah. Do Speaker 4 (2:25) you think the reason for that is because they feel like a patient who is addicted to drugs is so delicate and it's like, let's play damage control, get them on meds to stabilize them because it's not as evolved as the mental health. Speaker 5 (2:40) That's true. I mean, stabilize is a interesting term. What is stabilizing? I think getting your brain back to homeostasis is stabilizing. I think we forget in the addiction world and in the mental health world that we have neuroplasticity, right? The brain has the ability to recover and to heal. You see that in TBI patients, traumatic brain injury patients, or stroke patients. Does a stroke patient ever come back to complete zero? normal, typical functioning? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, depending upon the stroke, right? Same thing with the TBI. But I think when it comes to addictions and mental health stuff, we forget that the brain can heal and the brain can relearn new things. But I feel terrible for the addiction folks right now because they're being left out of the conversation. They're being presented as psychiatric medications are, they're obviously a better option than street drugs. Speaker 4 (3:41) I Speaker 5 (3:42) mean, ish, right? But they're being presented as if your brain is broken and this is the solution for your broken brain instead of the solution being, you know, let's heal your brain. Speaker 4 (3:53) Yeah. I was on SSRIs. I was on Lexapro and Welbutrin for probably seven years and I didn't feel any feelings. I was just numb. That's just it. That's the whole Speaker 5 (4:02) thing. And some people will argue that that's the point, right? Like, do you want to feel anything? Well, maybe in the early stages of recovery or whatever it is, like the answer to that is no, I don't want to feel because big feelings got me into big trouble, you Speaker 2 (4:19) know, Speaker 5 (4:19) made me use big feelings, made me use to get rid of those big feelings. But the flattening, the emotional blunting and also sexual dysfunction. I don't know if you've talked about this too much. Sexual dysfunction, PSSD post. SSRI sexual dysfunction for some people can be a forever journey. So the loss of libido, the loss of feeling in genitalia, the loss of pleasure principles in life, like all of those things can happen while on SSRIs, that emotional blunting will do that. I bet you, you were less likely to be driven sexually perhaps during that time. But for some people, it's forever. And you're giving that part of your life up forever. And you don't know it because nobody told you ahead of time that that could be the outcome for you. Speaker 4 (5:15) Yeah. And Speaker 5 (5:16) it is that outcome is. It destroys people. Speaker 4 (5:21) Yeah. During those seven years, yes, it – Same. Sex drive went down significantly and it was a lot harder to, you know, perform and stuff like that. Like to get aroused and stuff like that. I mean it was still there, but it was harder. Like a wet Speaker 5 (5:38) blanket thrown over you. Right. You know, and you can't get out of the wet blanket very well. Exactly. Speaker 4 (5:44) But once I – thank God I didn't have – you know, longer effects. Exactly. Now think Speaker 5 (5:50) about these. I felt like a Speaker 4 (5:51) 20 year old all over again. Speaker 5 (5:53) Yeah. If you think about, you know, kids getting on these medications, because kids are getting put on antidepressants at an alarming rate right now. Let's just say a 15 year old. Okay, fine. If you're saying, well, my 15 year old son will give up his sexuality to not be depressed at 15. I might sign off on that because I'm so worried about his mental health, right? But if I were to know that that could have been a permanent outcome Speaker 4 (6:21) for him, I Speaker 5 (6:23) might have thought differently. And I bet that my 15-year-old son would never sign off on losing his sexuality at 15. And Speaker 4 (6:31) this is just one effect of many. Oh, Speaker 5 (6:34) this is one. Speaker 4 (6:34) This is Speaker 5 (6:34) just one. And people will argue. I'm sure they're going to put it in the comments. That's so minimum. That's rare. It is not. There are organizations dedicated to this. They're researching this stuff right now. Speaker 4 (6:46) Yeah. Speaker 5 (6:47) Because it, well, the more it's prescribed, the more you're going to see it, Speaker 4 (6:50) right? So Speaker 5 (6:51) the less it's prescribed, the less you're going to see it, the more it's prescribed. And it is prescribed, what is it, like one in four people or one in four women for sure. Is that right? Are on SSRIs, yeah. Oof. Speaker 4 (7:02) I'm Speaker 5 (7:02) pretty sure. I'm pretty sure that's the stat. Yeah. Speaker 4 (7:05) So, okay. Let's take a step back. How did you get into becoming a psychotherapist? Speaker 5 (7:13) Psycho is the biggest part of that statement. Give Speaker 4 (7:17) us the story. Give us the overall background. One thing I've learned in my own recovery is that you can't do this alone and you don't have to. I know that firsthand. I went through inpatient treatment at care and treatment centers and it changed the course of my life. That's why I am proud to announce that I've partnered with Karen. For nearly 70 years, they've helped people and families not just break free from addiction, but actually heal and transform their lives. They're in network with all major insurance providers, and same day admission is available. So if you or someone you love is struggling, don't wait. Call Karen at 855-352- 0 1 0 3. That's 8 5 5 3 5 2 0 1 0 3. Help starts with taking that first step. Well, Speaker 5 (8:08) it's weird because it's not a huge, you know, I want to save the world story, right? So I've been an entrepreneur my entire life since I was 26 years old forward. And, uh, when I met my husband who was sitting in the room with us right now, um, he Speaker 4 (8:22) was about to actually walk out and then we were talking about sex drive and he's like, Speaker 5 (8:25) coming back. Let me hang out for this. Yeah, exactly. There's more to that story that we could talk about too. Anyway, so I started having my own children and we opened up daycare centers. At one point, we had three daycare centers going at the same time. And then our last child was born and I knew that my kid would eventually phase out of needing daycare, right? So all the kids would have been out. So what was I going to do with my life? And I thought, you know, I really like, I do like working with people, not kids so much anymore. Like that was a long trip with kids, right? But I really liked that. And I really liked the ability to be an entrepreneur. I didn't know what it was going to take, you know, to get to that place. So I went back for my master's degree. And so I went back for my master's degree when I had a one-year-old, a seven-year-old. 11-year-old. And by the time I graduated with my PhD, because I went master's straight to PhD, I had a 10-year-old, a 16-year-old, and a 21-year-old. Wow. Speaker 4 (9:30) Nine years of schooling. Speaker 5 (9:32) Nine years. Yeah. About nine, 10 years. Yes. Now, during that time, I needed things like practicums, right? And then you needed post-licensure hours and things like that, which led me into my work with the prison systems. Take Speaker 4 (9:46) us through. That's the juicy part. I want it all. Speaker 5 (9:50) Everybody wants to know about that part. You know, for me, it was interesting because I grew up in criminal justice. My dad was a police officer and chief of police and things like that. So this wasn't as unusual for me, but it was working on the opposite end of things, right? He thought it was pretty cool. I got my practicum because... three other practicum placements. So Speaker 4 (10:12) practicum is what you have to do when you're in school, right? To reach certain hours. It's like a residency type of residency. Yes. Speaker 5 (10:18) And then, uh, anyway, so I was trying to get into a hospital and they said yes. And then they said they didn't have the staff. And so three of them fell apart and I'm online just in a desperate like move. And I'm like, department of corrections. Okay. Sending it off. And of course they said, yes, you can come in whenever you need. I was like, oh no, here we go. Anyway, so I'll never forget what's like my first week there. And this is maximum security. So there's a whole unit, it's called psych services unit. And so they come to your office, okay? So in that setting, you didn't come to them unless they were in segregation, they came to you. And my first week there, and they're one of the inmates got into a fight with an officer on our unit. right outside my office door. Listen, I'm a little intern practicum student who is like, what is going on here? And they're fighting outside of my office window. I'm looking out this tiny little window like this going, what Speaker 4 (11:20) the fuck? What am I supposed to do now? I had no idea. Anyway, so they're fighting. I peek open. Speaker 5 (11:25) There's a whole row of psychologists standing right over there. And I'm like, what do I do? And they're like this, come here. And I'm like, Are you kidding me? They're literally grappling on the ground right here. Before you know it, there's like five other COs coming and they're all fighting right outside my door. I'm sitting inside. I locked the door. I locked myself in and I'm like just sitting there going, it's going to be okay. This is week one. And I thought this is going to be a disaster. Well, it turned out to be a really interesting place to work. And so then I was also doing. sex offender groups and things like that, which I never, ever thought I would do. Those guys don't even realize their pasts are created who they are. They have no idea. But I also remember, keep in mind at this time, I think my youngest was like three, four years old when this was going on. And so the psychologist that was in charge of the group said, read all these guys' files. Read all of them. She brings me this big stack of files. Read all of them before you come into group. Literally, I'm reading about all the sex crimes that were committed against kids and things like this. I'm sitting in my office again, bawling my face out because I'm like, I can't. And I said to her, I said, I don't think I can do this. This is not for me because the stories were so intense. And all I kept doing is transferring my own children into the picture, right? Into the stories. And then you go into group and you sit down and you realize that these are people, right? These are people and people are bigger than their crimes and they have histories, right? And every history is so unique. You begin to, this is going to sound weird, like have compassion for them as people, right? That doesn't mean that what the crime they didn't, that they did wasn't horrific, right? So we don't, we separate the person from the crime. The other thing that I learned working there was most people get out. Most people get out of prison, no matter their crime. Some people are there for life, but that's not too many people. They get out. So I learned that. I could be their neighbor, right? I could be their neighbor. You could be their neighbor. And the way I treat them is going to almost dictate how they move about society. And I thought to myself, like, they've never been treated with compassion or probably a level of dignity in their life. So that became kind of my mission. Like, that was my... to treat these guys with compassion and dignity and be a really good listener to them and understand what their needs are because they could literally move next door to me when they get out. And so when I say next door to me, that means next door to you, next door to anybody who's listening, right? And so instead of treating people with disdain for what they've done, we begin to learn how to respect their stories. Speaker 4 (14:25) Yeah. Listen, I get it. It's your job, right? And you're going to be doing that job regardless. So why not look at it as- Well, my Speaker 5 (14:35) job was never to punish them. They were already being punished. Right, right. Speaker 4 (14:39) Or you could just sit there and not even listen and just go through the motions. But you chose to take this route. Speaker 4 (14:46) of bettering society and looking at it as your community. And they potentially, like you just said, could be your neighbor. So why not try to do some good here? Now, there are people out there that are like, okay, you commit murder. Yeah, people make mistakes. People steal. People do drugs, commit a crime. Well, they were on drugs. You know, let's give them a second chance. There are people out there, a majority of the population that say sex offenders, absolutely not. Speaker 5 (15:15) Oh, right. 100%. You'd be surprised how many sex offenses are out there. The thing is, is that all sex offenses are looked at the same. Now, I know that sounds kind of crazy to say that, but you can have an 18-year-old who had a 15 Speaker 4 (15:32) -year-old girlfriend, you know. It's a senior and a