The Habsburg Dynasty: The Most Inbred Family in History

Right Answers Mostly

This episode explores the rise and eventual decline of the Habsburg dynasty, tracing their journey from minor nobility to a global superpower. The

Key takeaways

Maximilian I pioneered a strategy of expanding the empire through marriage rather than warfare, famously summarized by the family motto.
The 'Habsburg jaw' was a prominent physical deformity resulting from generations of intense inbreeding within the royal line.

Main topics

Habsburg Dynasty History
Consequences of Inbreeding

Notable quotes

History is just gossip.

Conclusion

A compelling look at how the pursuit of concentrated power through mar

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:25) Welcome back to Write Answers Mostly, a podcast on what you didn't learn in history class, but you really wanted to. I'm Claire Donalds. I'm Tess Palomo. And welcome back to our September back to school month Rammies. Posey scholastic vibes are here for you. Exactly. And I think that this one's going to feel like very old school Ram because it is like true historical. We know you guys like that. Yes. And I actually had never heard of these people before. This is like a true Ram suggested subject. Today, we are talking about the Habsburg dynasty. Oh, Speaker 1 (0:55) you never heard? No. Did you know? Speaker 2 (0:57) No. No. No. I didn't know and I don't know. And Speaker 1 (1:02) I'm Speaker 2 (1:02) still kind of like, what? But it's going to be really great because the Rammys, see, the Rammys teach us just like we teach you. You guys are like, open your hearts and let us guide you. I mean, Tess, today we're talking about incest. Well, isn't that history? Ain't that the truth? In a sad, sad Speaker 1 (1:17) way? Yeah, really. So do you know anything about the Habsburgs? Have you heard about them? Never heard about them. Don't know who they are. Don't. know anything. Speaker 2 (1:25) I did send you a picture of Charles II last night and I should have given you a warning. True warning. Yeah. Or send it with invisible ink, but I did not. So Speaker 1 (1:33) this is what happens when you have sex with your like siblings. You look like that. Yeah. Like when your family has sex with each other like multiple times. It's probably like that in combination with like fetal alcohol syndrome. Speaker 2 (1:44) Oh, I didn't even think Speaker 1 (1:45) about that. You Speaker 2 (1:45) know, Speaker 1 (1:45) because I was like, that face is looking crazy. Like there's a lot going on there. There's a Speaker 2 (1:48) lot going on. If you don't know what we're talking about, go to our carousel at Right Answers Mostly on Instagram. follow along. Tough. Time has not been kind to this family. No, no, no, no, no. So I guess like without further ado, let's just get into the Habsburgs. I still kind of am like, what? And like, why? But actually not why? Because they were like the most powerful family in Europe for a long time. Speaker 1 (2:11) Where? Where? Speaker 2 (2:12) Well, I'll tell you, Tess. All right. The House of Habsburg was one of the most powerful dynasties in the history of Western civilization for centuries. They start as a relatively unremarkable noble family and eventually become one of Europe's most powerful dynasties controlling Austria, Spain, the Netherlands, parts of Italy, territories in America, and repeatedly holding the title of Holy Roman Emperor. Damn. But what they may be most notably known for was the Habsburg jaw, the chin. Speaker 1 (2:47) Veil toruses? Speaker 2 (2:48) No. Okay, Speaker 1 (2:49) well, Speaker 2 (2:49) the jaw and the neck Speaker 1 (2:50) area. Speaker 2 (2:50) It wasn't the torus. It was the incest. Yeah, yeah. It created, like, this huge chin. Speaker 1 (2:56) Damn. So Speaker 2 (2:57) who the hell are these people and like why do we here? Let's get into it. Tess, we're going to go back to the 900s first. Speaker 1 (3:03) Oh my God. Oh Jesus. I know when I started researching this, I was like, how could you? How could you do this to Speaker 2 (3:09) me? I am having a hard time getting into this, but then we did. Yeah, we always do. We push through. So the Habsburg family can probably trace its roots back to the wealthy nobleman, Guntram Speaker 1 (3:20) the Rich, who was a count. Speaker 2 (3:22) Countess Luanne. Countess Luanne probably would have loved him. Guntam the Rich, he lived around the 900s. And a few generations later, one of Guntam's... Gupta? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Speaker 1 (3:38) I kept it in from last week's too. I had to. I had to, Speaker 2 (3:42) you guys. Speaker 1 (3:42) It's like, I can't. I think maybe we need to do it every single episode. I Speaker 2 (3:45) think we have to. This month. Yeah. Speaker 1 (3:46) You guys just... Because it's like school. Exactly. We're at school. Princess Diaries. Exactly. It totally makes sense. So Speaker 2 (3:54) Gupta or Guntum, whatever. Just call him Gupta. I don't actually care about this person at all. Call him Gupta. This Speaker 1 (4:01) is like Speaker 2 (4:01) why we'd Speaker 1 (4:01) be such bad history Speaker 2 (4:02) teachers. I don't really care about this one. Let's call it a different name. Let's get to the crazy incest of it all. Yeah. So that guy. Oh, okay. So also the name Habsburg. Back in the day, they didn't have surnames. And like a lot of times you get your surnames from like your occupation, like Smith, like a blacksmith. That's where that's from? Yes. Isn't that crazy? That's Speaker 1 (4:22) crazy. Speaker 2 (4:22) I actually meant to look more into this and then I forgot about it, but it would be like a trade or it would be like a structure. And so this castle- Speaker 1 (4:31) Oh, Speaker 2 (4:31) that's so interesting. Isn't that interesting? So the castle was declared the Habsburg Castle. And so the family that was living there would eventually get the last name Habsburg. Oh. Yes. Okay. So we have the Habsburg family from Guntum, the rich. So now let's go to 1273. There's this guy Count Rudolf of Habsburg and he is elected as king of the Romans and he received the title Rudolf of Germany, Rudolf I of Germany. And so a quick little note when I say that he's the king of the Romans and he's like the head of the Holy Roman Empire, it's actually not like Rome. It's basically this huge complicated collection of territories in Central Europe. Okay. So that's just like kind of something to know. Yeah, yeah. For your dinner conversation. Speaker 1 (5:15) Rome doesn't Speaker 2 (5:15) exist yet. And I think Rome existed. Yeah, Rome was like around for a long time. I think Rome's an OG. Yeah, that's true. Sorry, guys. Speaker 1 (5:22) I don't know. I Speaker 2 (5:23) don't know. We're in 1200 now. That's true. This is a Speaker 1 (5:25) long time ago. Speaker 2 (5:25) It's a really long time ago. Okay, so then he's like the head guy, Rudolph. But then there was this guy, King Otakar II of Bohemia. And he was not happy that Rudolph was the king. And he was like, that's not fair for him just to get that title. I refuse to acknowledge you as king. And so then in 1278, King... and Rudolf battle it out and Rudolf wins. And so he gains the territory of Austria and Styria, which I'm not exactly sure what that is either. If Speaker 1 (5:56) you're a first time listener, I promise stick with us. We will know something. Speaker 2 (6:00) Yeah, we'll get there, you guys. We'll get there. We're learning together. So he gains Austria and Styria in 1282, which he will later give to his sons. But this is the beginning of the Habsburgs' long ties to Austria. Speaker 1 (6:12) They Speaker 2 (6:12) are like... They are Austria. Chic. And so this is where they gain that land. So from that point onwards, the Habsburg Empire conducted most of their administrative matters from Vienna. Speaker 1 (6:24) I've never been to Vienna. I have once. Oh, yeah, you went when you were in high school? Yes, and I remember, this Speaker 2 (6:30) is so disgraceful, but I was 14, you guys. I was like, I don't want to go to Austria. Like, I just want to go to, like, Rome. Well, of course. We all did. Exactly. But then I went to Vienna, Salzburg, and Innsbruck, and talk about a country. Speaker 1 (6:42) Can't you do the Sound of Music tour there? Speaker 2 (6:44) I went in Salzburg, the back of the house. Yeah, yeah. Yes, I did go there. It was so cold. I bet. But... Amazing. I Speaker 1 (6:51) want to go. Speaker 2 (6:51) So shout out to our Austrian Rammies. Do we have any of you guys? Speaker 1 (6:54) Let us know. DM us. So Speaker 2 (6:56) we're in Austria now. Now we're going to cut to the 1400s because like, does anyone really care what's going on in the 12 to 1300s? Not really. Does anyone really care what's going on in the 1400s? Not really. We're going to live in the 1400s. Okay. For now. And this is where the most significant era of the Habsburg rule began. We're going to meet this guy, Maximilian I. And he is known as the last knight. Sounds cool. And he ruled during the early Renaissance. So Maximilian was a true Renaissance man. He kept scholars close to him and he valued them. He understood the need to revamp the medieval way of life. Speaker 1 (7:32) He was like, sweethearts. We need to make over. Yeah. Like, let's get like a rebrand. Let's Speaker 2 (7:36) get a rebrand. Like, let's start educating ourselves. Let's get into the arts. You know, like, let's freshen this place up. Let's look into science and engineering. This was the time. This was the time. This forward thinking led to domestic affairs as well. He was like, you guys. So again, this is Maximilian. He's a Habsburg. He was like, I don't really want to fight. I don't really want to die. We could actually expand our territory. if we married other Speaker 1 (8:02) people instead of just fighting wars for it. He's like, give peace a chance, you guys. Give peace a chance. Can I say something? Say Speaker 2 (8:08) it. Speaker 1 (8:09) Peace. Speaker 2 (8:10) Peace. Peace. Speaker 1 (8:11) That Speaker 2 (8:11) was exactly Maximilian. We're in a peace necklace. Exactly. So he's like, why don't we, instead of fighting to gain land, let's marry and expand our empire that way. So in 1477, he marries Mary of Burgundy. And Mary is one of the richest and most important heiresses in Europe. Love. love. Her father, Charles the Bold, had just died. And so Mary had inherited this incredibly valuable collection of territories, including the Low Countries, which were the Burgundian Netherlands. Speaker 1 (8:43) Nice. This is a lot of geography on RAM this month so far. Like we, you know, last week we were going all around the world and I'm so sorry. But I mean, some of the places I was just like, I don't know. Speaker 2 (8:50) Well, this is what happens when you get into scholastic month and you get out of Maryland month. You have to really challenge yourself in different ways. And we are. And we are. We're lifelong learners. We're doing great. So he marries Mary of Burgundy. They get more land. And now the Habsburgs have a massive foothold in Western Europe. And this marriage is considered foundational to the Habsburgs becoming a European great power. Like this is where they gained a lot of land from marriage. And this is basically where we get their, it's like their family motto, which was, quote, let others wage war, but you, happy Austria, marry. Speaker 1 (9:25) God, they just love to, they really want to hook each other up, don't they? Exactly. They're like, why fight? But like smart, because you don't want to die. Make love, not war. Once again, peace. Peace and love. From Maximilian. Thank Speaker 2 (9:37) you. So surprisingly, Maximilian and Mary seem to have developed a genuinely close partnership, which is also nice. But unfortunately, Mary dies in 1482 at only 25 after a riding accident. Speaker 1 (9:50) Oh, that is a rich way to go. Yeah. For this time, you know. Gone with the wind. Wow. With her daughter. Oh, yeah. I just had to bring it back to Clark Gable. We're still thinking. We Speaker 2 (10:01) are. So they had only been married for about five years. However. They did have a son at this point named Philip, who will go on his name. You know how they have, like, Catherine the Great? He is Philip the Handsome. Speaker 1 (10:15) Oh, my. Is he? Did you see? I mean, how can you really see? Speaker 2 (10:18) Yeah, exactly. How can you not? Do you stalk his Instagram? Any, like, paintings? I did. They all look the same, and we haven't got to the incest yet, so I guess, like, fine. Damn, what Speaker 1 (10:29) a Speaker 2 (10:29) title. No kidding. Speaker 1 (10:31) What a legacy. Speaker 2 (10:32) That's a real fucking legacy. Wow. So Philip the Handsome. Now, Philip takes after his father by marrying to expand his power, and he marries Juana of Castile. Now. Juana's parents are very important. Her parents were Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castile. Now, if you are a Speaker 1 (10:52) true history girlie, if you've been around Ram for Speaker 2 (10:54) a long time, you might recognize her parents because Ferdinand and Isabella were also the parents of Catherine of Aragon, King Henry VIII's first wife. Speaker 1 (11:05) God, they're all connected, aren't they? They are Speaker 2 (11:06) all connected. And they are like a powerhouse. Aragon and Castile are like Spain areas. So they're like the king and queen of Spain, basically. And so Juana is like a princess of Spain. Got it. Catherine of Aragon is Juana's younger sister. So we have a Spanish princess and a Habsburg prince, Philip the Handsome and Juana. In 1496, 16-year-old Juana is married to 18-year-old Philip. And this marriage was actually designed to strengthen their power against France. Because if there's one thing... that we will see throughout this whole episode is like literally everyone hates France except for France. Speaker 1 (11:39) Wow. France was like always kind of the odd man out. There was some resentment wasn't there? Yeah Speaker 2 (11:44) and like the ultimate girl so confusing is England versus France. Totally like you guys just like just hug and just kiss and make up you Speaker 1 (11:50) know. Speaker 2 (11:51) So they get married but here's the thing about Juana. I had to go on a whole separate side quest on Juana because we have Philip the Handsome. Do you know what Juana's title ends up becoming in history? Speaker 1 (12:02) That's probably something so fucked up, isn't it? Like the ugly? Juana Speaker 2 (12:05) the Mad. And I was Speaker 1 (12:07) like, hmm. Speaker 2 (12:07) Hmm. You just don't hear that. with women very often. And when you do in history... What Speaker 1 (12:13) does that really mean? What does it entail? Speaker 2 (12:15) Exactly. So I was literally like, well, I have to go further in on Juana. Why did they call her mad? And Tess, it's exactly what you think. She's a journalist. And so what I found is that Juana did not seem mad. I mean, she did seem mad, angry, and like, who wouldn't be being a woman at this time? Speaker 1 (12:30) And it's just like that. She just seemed to be a victim of being a woman at this time is really what Speaker 2 (12:35) it is. So when Juana and Philip get married, From the beginning, their relationship was, like, quite passionate. Like, they were actually very into each other. Oh. She especially into him. I think Philip... Well, God, I bet. I mean... Philip the Handsome. Yeah. I think Philip loved women and Juana loved Philip. Ah, so she always was yearning for his affection. Exactly. That makes anyone mad, you guys. Okay. Speaker 1 (12:59) Have Speaker 2 (12:59) you ever had a crush before? Like, nothing will make you feel crazier than Speaker 1 (13:03) a crush. Speaker 2 (13:03) Unrequited love? It's crazy. So, he, like... More or less is cheating all the time on Juana. Of course. So there's that. Also, like, Juana has to move to where the Habsburgs are. She has to leave her home. She has to go to, like, a whole new court. So she's, like, not super comfortable there. By the way, she's 16 years old. Oh, Speaker 1 (13:21) my God. Speaker 2 (13:22) Then in 1502, after they've been married for a few years, Juana and Philip traveled from the low countries where they were living to Spain because Juana suddenly became the heir to her family's throne because... All of her older siblings and her nephews died pretty tragically and, like, in a row. Speaker 1 (13:40) So Speaker 2 (13:40) now she will be the heir apparent. So they have to travel back so that they can, like, prep her and get her ready for what it's going to be like when she rules, which is, like, great for Philip, too, because they just inherited, like, even more land from that. Yeah. So off to Spain they go. But the thing was that, like, Philip hated being in Spain. They're super Catholic over there. And like he was Catholic too, but they were like super Catholic. So he couldn't like party and cheat on his wife so openly. I gotta get back to the homeland. Exactly. I can keep doing this. And he's like, I really don't like love my parents-in-law being there all the time. So he just like didn't love Spain. And Juana, of course, is not in the best mental state at this point. She was pregnant. Speaker 1 (14:23) So that Speaker 2 (14:23) will do a number on you. Speaker 1 (14:25) She Speaker 2 (14:25) was grieving all the deaths of her siblings. And she's like a teenager. Exactly. And the deaths of her siblings between 1497 and 1500, Juana's older brother, Juan. Oh. Oh, Speaker 1 (14:36) Juan. Speaker 2 (14:37) Juan and Juana. Interesting. Juan died. And then his widow suffered a stillbirth. And then her older sister, Isabella, died in childbirth. And then Isabella's toddler-aged son died. Speaker 1 (14:47) Oh, my God. Poor thing. No, exactly. Because I feel like in history, we hear these stories of like, Speaker 2 (14:52) oh, and their siblings died. And you're just like, whatever. But it's Speaker 1 (14:55) like Speaker 2 (14:55) she had no one. No, Speaker 1 (14:55) exactly. Speaker 2 (14:56) She lost her like Speaker 1 (14:56) best friends. Speaker 2 (14:57) And it's like people grieve back then just like how we grieve now. I think that sounds so must sound so stupid to hear. But sometimes we just forget when we're hearing these stories. Speaker 1 (15:06) That's so true. Like, well, everyone was dying young back then. So it didn't matter. It's like, no, that's your family. Exactly. Exactly. Speaker 2 (15:11) So she's just like really not in a great place right now. And. Philip's not supporting her at all. Speaker 1 (15:17) Yeah, I bet. Speaker 2 (15:18) Philip's kind of like, I'm over this place and you're like really bumming me out and I don't want to stay here with my in-laws anymore. I want to go home. And I believe he peaces out and goes back to the Low Countries without telling her. So do I call Mauricio. Like she's grieving and he's like, I'm gone. Speaker 1 (15:34) That's Speaker 2 (15:35) exactly. Right. Speaker 1 (15:36) And Speaker 2 (15:37) they have Speaker 1 (15:37) like the passion in the beginning. Exactly. And then it's like, oh, you're sad. I'm not really like attracted to you like this anymore. I don't like sign up for that. I wanted you to be like my party wife. Exactly. So that's what was Speaker 2 (15:47) happening with Philip and Juana. So he peaces out and Juana has it bad for Philip, like we said. And she's like, OK, my husband just Irish exited on me like I got to go back to him. But her mom, Isabella, was like. She was, I mean, she was overstepping because it's like she's a grown woman and she's like a queen in her own right. But she was like, you're the heir apparent. You have to stay here and like figure out how we run things. And also you're pregnant and it's dangerous for you to be traveling, which is like Speaker 1 (16:13) not Speaker 2 (16:14) wrong. But it's also like, let the girl go back to her man. Let her just have a little Speaker 1 (16:17) episode and go find him. Speaker 2 (16:19) Well, speaking. Scream at him, hopefully. Of that. So he leaves Spain in December 1502 while Juana stayed behind. She gave birth to their son Ferdinand in March 1503. So she had cast to give birth by herself. And after the birth, Juana desperately wanted to return to Philip and like introduce him to his son. But Isabella wouldn't allow it again. Juana would deal with this and his desertion by throwing herself against the walls to injure herself, by crying herself to sleep. And but like, oh, man, she was like throwing tantrums, but also like crying herself to sleep. Speaker 1 (16:58) It's not a Speaker 2 (16:58) big deal. Who doesn't? Like Speaker 1 (17:00) it's Monday. Literally. Oh, my God.