The Homework Episode for Overwhelmed Parents

Raising Good Humans

In this episode, developmental psychologist Dr. Aliza Pressman interviews Dr. Ellen Braaten to unpack why modern homework loads have become

Key takeaways

• Dr. Ellen Braaten outlines the '10-minute rule' as a developmental benchmark: 10 minutes per grade level, capping at two hours nightly in high school where additional time yields diminishing returns.
• Excessive homework directly correlates with widespread teen sleep deprivation, which Dr. Braaten identifies as a primary driver of rising anxiety and depression rates among students.

Main topics

• Age-appropriate homework duration guidelines
• Sleep deprivation and teen mental health impacts

Notable quotes

"Sleep deprivation is one of the biggest issues that we're dealing with with kids right now. Huge association with anxiety. And with depressions..."

Conclusion

The episode equips parents with a research-backed framework to reduce household

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) There are a lot of effects of homework that are really negative, and a lot of them lead to a decrease in motivation. So the reason why I think homework is such a big thing is because schools want their students to be the best and have the best ACT scores and SAT scores. Parents want their kids to be successful. And so we kind of feel like more of whatever is always better. And when it comes to homework, that's actually not true. Speaker 2 (0:29) If you have struggles with homework or just concerns about homework, or you're feeling like, why in the world is there so much homework? And how can I keep this from being totally fraught in my household? Dr. Ellen Broughton is so helpful. like just concretely helpful. She's a founding director of the Learning and Emotional Assessment Program at Mass General, and she's an associate professor of psychology at Harvard Medical School. Part of the conversation we're having is about the kids who are doing homework, but they're maybe taking longer than they should, or maybe they're not prioritizing properly. And some of this is about the kids who have no motivation or haven't really thought, what is the point of this? So helping figure out how to support kids who are having a difficult time with homework or overdoing homework or have slow processing. There's so much with homework. I'm Dr. Speaker 1 (1:32) Aliza Pressman, developmental psychologist, New York Times bestselling author, associate clinical professor at the Icahn School of Medicine and the host of Raising Good Humans podcast. I am so glad you're here. Speaker 2 (1:47) So we're talking about homework today. And the reason we're talking about homework, I mean, obviously we'll get into how best to support our kids who are struggling with homework, because I don't think we need to talk about the kids who just come home and do their homework. But first, I kind of want to ask you why you think homework is such a point of tension in households. So I think there are a few reasons why Speaker 3 (2:17) homework is difficult. One is that it's often too much of it. Another reason is because kids can't do it. They don't have the skills to do what they're being asked to do. Another reason is because it's often very boring, which is not what the purpose of homework is supposed to be. And the other, for kids who actually do homework. really well. The ones who get home, they do it and they're up till three in the morning. Those kids are stressed out. So there are a lot of effects of homework that are really negative. And a lot of them lead to a decrease in motivation. So the reason why I think homework is such a big thing is because schools want their students to be the best and have the best ACT scores and SAT scores. Parents want their kids to be successful. And so we kind of feel like more of whatever is always better. And when it comes to homework, that's actually not true. Speaker 2 (3:15) Kind of along the developmental continuum, when is homework even reasonable? Because you think about parents, I remember this when my oldest daughter was in kindergarten at a very rigorous school, rigorous for a kindergarten. The parents were complaining that there was not homework, like somehow the kids were missing out on learning. So I want to address sort of developmentally, when do we actually, if ever, need homework? And what are the harms and benefits of homework? Speaker 3 (3:46) So I love your example about not doing enough homework. That's one reason why homework is such a point of contention is because some parents want more of it. Of course, others are really struggling with it. The studies are kind of mixed on homework. And a lot of studies show that there's very little effect in homework. And some of them show that there's some good effects on homework. But really, in terms of development, you don't really need it until about second grade. And then the rule of thumb, and actually the data is okay on this, but it's not fabulous on this, is that 10 minutes of homework for each year. So that... you know, in second grade, you have 20 minutes of homework, first grade, you have 10 minutes of homework, and that by middle school, you've got 90. And in high school, you've got about two hours of homework per night. Now, the data does show that after about two hours of homework, there really is no significant effect of more homework. And think about how many high school students are home doing way more than two hours of homework per night. Way more. So younger kids, you know, and it can be kind of, fun for a kindergartner to have to do something, but it's really not impactful in terms of their learning. So, and you asked about the effects too, and I mentioned earlier loss of motivation. I think that's the big umbrella that this all encompasses, that the wrong kind of homework, too much of it, the wrong kind can lead to... ultimately a loss of motivation, but it interferes with life. It interferes with our ability to have conversations with our family members because kids are doing homework. It interferes with their ability to do extracurricular activities or they're doing extracurricular activities and doing the homework and not getting enough sleep. And so sleep deprivation is one of the biggest issues that we're dealing with with kids right now. Huge association with anxiety. And with depressions or wondering, why are so many kids depressed and anxious? Well, the simplest explanation might be they're just not getting enough sleep. And homework is a part of that. So it's really an important part of this whole big picture of unmotivated, depressed, anxious kids. Speaker 2 (6:00) It does beg the question, we know this in the research, why in the world are schools still... pushing for so much and teachers who are so brilliant and they know better are pushing for so much. Like I can't come to terms with it. I have high schoolers right now and I'm amazed. I could never do that amount of homework. Like I, and I went to a perfectly, I had a perfectly theoretically rigorous education, but it seems like it was a nothing burger compared to what's expected today. So part of me feels like, how are we not changing that? And also, if we're not changing that, how can we best support our kids? Speaker 3 (6:42) One of the ways to support our kids is to try to change that. So these things in education, in life in general, but particularly in education, take a long time to change. So even things, you know, simple things that we do, nobody ever lets their kids walk to school anymore because you don't want to be the first person to do that. Or everybody gives their child a cell phone at a certain age because everybody does it. Homework is sort of similar to that. And until parents start to say, this is too much for us, and until we start to see the link between too much homework and the anxiety and the depression and the unmotivated kinds of kids, we're not going to change it. So I think we need to really make very clear that link between what we're asking kids to do and the outcomes. So that's one thing that I think actually parents' voices do make a difference, as we found in cell phone use in schools. And I actually think teachers feel the same way, too. But they want to please. School administrators want to please. And they don't want anybody coming back and saying, well, if you'd given more homework, my child would have gotten into Harvard. So that's part of it. I think in terms of supporting. our kids. Parental involvement is important, but it's not the be-all, end-all. So one of the ways we can make it worse is to be overly involved with our kids. And one of the things we want to kind of think about is autonomy and also support. So it's kind of like there's this sort of idea that having them in a supportive environment where you're really teaching them autonomy. is the most important thing to do. Of course, that's Speaker 2 (8:22) the Speaker 3 (8:22) hardest thing to do as a parent anyway. Where do I, how do I let them be them? And how do I support them in them being them? But I think, you know, think about guiding them, not controlling them, not bugging them too much, giving them a specific place to do homework every day, providing that kind of structure. So time and place actually matters a lot. That one of the good things about homework. is developing a habit of kind of practicing something. And so to do that, we all practice things the best when we do it the same time every day. We get up on Tuesdays and Thursdays and go to the gym. It should be the same kind of thing with homework. The other thing I think is important to think about is connecting motivation to the outcome. You know, they're doing this now because the outcome is this. And so... I mean, I could tell you a funny story about my son. I asked him if it was okay to share a story today. Great. Tell us. He had some learning challenges, some ADHD when he was a kid, and homework time was terrible for us, just awful. And at one point he said to me, you know, mom, we have to find a different way of helping me do my homework other than you yelling. Or I said, sorry, I said, we have to find a different way of doing homework other than me yelling at you. And he's like, mom, yelling kind of works. And I was like, that just doesn't work for me. This is not, he says, it kind of actually works to get me going. So one thing to kind of think about is they do need a sort of a way to kind of get motivated to do this. And actually, the research shows that having some carbohydrates before studying actually helps. So milk and cookies before studying has been shown to be a good way of, you know, glucose is important for the brain. So that's really important. So that was one story of his. But then there was a time when he was, I don't know, about third or fourth grade. And he came home after having a test. He said, Mom, I had an epiphany. And I was like, what? And he said, when you study for the test, the test isn't that hard. And there were two things that surprised me about that. One is he used the word epiphany in a sentence. But the other one was, how did we not teach him that already? How did they not know that? We never teach kids that the whole point of homework and studying is to show what you learn and to do better on an outcome. And without that association, Kids don't put that together themselves. And so we need to infuse that all the time. Why did your teacher ask you to do this? Is it meaningful? Why is it meaningful? Helping them do that helps them become a more independent learner. Speaker 1 (11:11) Are you already the go-to planner in your family or friend group? If so, becoming a Fora advisor is the best way to level that up. Fora is the modern travel agency designed for people who want to turn their passion for travel planning into a real business. Everything on the platform is built to help you start, grow, and scale your own travel business. Plus, you get a network of over 5,000 preferred travel partners for VIP perks, and earn commission on hotels, cruises, and experiences. And the best part is, Fora gives you the tools, training, and support you need so you don't have to figure all of this out on your own. Become a Fora advisor today at foratravel.com slash humans. That's F-O-R-A travel.com slash humans. And make sure you tell them we sent you. foratravel.com slash humans. Speaker 1 (12:09) The journey for simple and clean skincare is not an easy one. Most products over-promise and they definitely under-deliver. We've all been there, but as someone who cares about science and clean products and skincare, I want to tell you about Osea. They've actually been a partner of mine over the years, and I love their products. I was introduced to the Undaria Algae Body Butter. It was a gift, and I am obsessed with it. I have dry skin, which