The Gondolier

Radiolab

A deeply personal story of Alex High, the first transgender gondolier of Venice, whose journey challenges gender norms and reveals the complexity of identity. The episode explores how public perception, media narratives, and personal truth intersect. Alex’s story unfolds through intimate interviews, revealing both triumph and struggle. The podcast also reflects on the power of storytelling and the

Key takeaways

• Alex is a transgender man who became Venice's first female gondolier by breaking a 900-year tradition.
• Media portrayed Alex as a female trailblazer, but Alex identifies as male, highlighting how narratives can misrepresent identity.
• Alex faced extreme isolation and trauma, including family rejection and depression, yet rebuilt his life in Berlin.

Transcript preview

This is Radio Lab. I'm Storne Wheeler, the executive editor here at the show. And I want to play you an episode today that we first put out in 2017. And the reason is because I still think about this story all the time. It was both a real challenge and a joy to work on. Because it's the story of a person who had to face off against literally the entire world and against our most ingrained ways of seeing the world and each other, all just to be who they really are. That person is named Alex High. And in this episode we meet Alex sort of in the middle of that struggle. And as you'll hear in the show, it doesn't end at the end of this story. So I got a hold of Alex to find out what happened next. So if you stick around for the end, you'll hear Alex telling me about a whole second act to this story which honestly I found very moving but first I'm just gonna play you the original piece which is called the Gondolier Hey I'm Jad Abum Rod I'm Robert Krollich. This is Radio Lab. Today we have the story of just how hard it can be to be who you actually are when it seems like the entire world is doing its best to make you who you actually aren't. I guess I could, I mean this could be too many details but the story starts for us with reporter David Conrad. So for me it was back in late 2014 I was living in Philadelphia as a grad student. for was at a radio show that was doing a series about international women's issues. And so I had this on my mind and I was taking a bus to the university and I just overheard somebody talking about their recent trip to Venice. And of course the classic tourist thing to do when you go to Venice is to take a ride on the canal boats, the gondolas. You know, go down the canal, maybe someone sings to a famous song. In a case, the person sitting on the bus next to David was telling their friend that they had taken a gondola ride with this first ever woman gondolier in Venice. Yeah, and we were like poking around and we realized like how... How did this become a wee? No, I'm... Who are you? I'm Kristen Clark, also a journalist from radio producer and she and David are partners and collaborators. I mean, and this is what was interesting is like we realize like how big a deal it is to be a family deal it is to be a family this is like a 900 year old tradition. 900 years. Yeah, all men. Yeah, all men and it's always passed father son father son father son or like uncle nephew down the line. So this is like this has been no ladies now no ladies then no ladies ever. No ladies in 900 years. Just think about that for a second. Almost a thousand years of all men men men men men men and then one day you get a woman. As a headline, woman breaks through 900 year old glass ceiling. I thought like a good pitch. Are you kidding? It sounds like God kissed you in the lip. Exactly. It sounded like the perfect empowerment story I guess. Yeah and so we're kind of just like googling it and like it's all over the media. It seemed like every outlet from the Guardian to the New York Times to the Financial Times to the Cedar Rapids Gazette to newspaper. It made it all the way to Cedar Rapids. Yeah to newspapers in Germany and China and Australia and Australia and they all the articles laid out the same basic story. It was this Algerian woman from Germany. named Alex Hey, showed up in Venice 20 years ago, got around a gondolier's association that never wanted to see a woman become a gondolier and eventually became the first ever female gondolier of Venice. The whole thing of course sparking this giant gender war. But that was sort of it. Pretty much the headline in a picture was the story. Many of the articles didn't actually have all that many quotes from Alex. And so for me it sounded like a great, simple opportunity to go back and tell a deeper story. Who is this person? Why would somebody be so hell-bent on getting into this club that just so clearly does not want them? Yeah. So we we emailed Alex. Just we're interested in your story. We're wondering if you might be willing to spend a few days with us this summer and I was hoping it would just be like yes I'm happy to meet with you for a couple hours and that would have been great. But we got an email back right away that said, if you come do this story you have to spend a week with me. A week. A week. who we were as journalists, what our purpose was, and a bunch of demands. You have to stay in the city, you can't stay in like one of the suburbs in Marguerite even though it's cheaper, like you have to be in the city. I want to hear these sounds at this time. I have a vision for things. Did you have the sense that there was something a little odd? Yeah, and I mean the message was definitely I want to tell a different story. Did you have. So we flew to the Venice airport, took a bus to city center. I was really fast. We stepped off the bus and you could smell the salt in the air from the Grand Canal and it was kind of raining a little bit. It was around midnight. We're kind of getting our bearings, grabbing our bags and we look up and across the parking lot. There's Alex. We're kind of, you know, getting our bearings, grabbing our bags and we look up and across the parking lot. There's Alex. meaning against it with a cigarette. Smoke kind of curling up into the light of the street lamp. Short hair, dark, it was slicked back. Do you think you were in a phalini movie? Honestly, I didn't know what to think. This person was legit under a lamp smoking. the strong build kind of a face that was a little weathered like someone who works outside all day on the water. We're finishing quite late so when you call it just finished so. Oh perfect. How was your flight? It was good it was long it was you know we flew to Moscow first which is and since it was late. We made a plan with Alex to meet up at 545 p.m. the next day on the steps of La Finiche opera house. Okay beautiful little opera house. Yeah So anyway the plan was to go out on a gondola. So anyway the plan was to go out on a gondola ride. Which was one of Alex's demands in that first email. Okay. So we walk around the corner to where the gondolas park. And oh my God. The boat was just like shining. So the gondola was made for three people. This was where the noble couple was sitting. Antique Cushion's golden trim. And over there there was a servant sitting. Alex had had it about 12 years. It was already quite an old boat when I got it. And I had a name. This is called Pegos. Pegos. And you choose it? Yes. Yes, of course. All right. So if you want to come in. One step. So we climb into the boat. Perfect. holding the oar and we're down sitting in the lower seats kind of just like pointing the microphone up. Alex, I know you were just telling us how annoying it is when people snap pictures is okay if I take photographs every once in a while. No. that it was not going to be an easy interview. You came here when you studied I know I know but I was wondering right you need to do a lot of practice. Yeah we had a notebook full of questions and things that we had pulled from all these articles we'd read that pretty quickly became useless. That was what I was asking though is is you didn't come and whenever I asked about being the first female gondolier and the first woman in 900 years to do this. We read that everywhere on the net. I mean, so, you know, such an over and over and over and over. It's all set already. Why we need to repeat things which are already done. This is very frequent journalism problem. Like you become boring to the person you're interviewing. Right. You start flailing. Exactly. And we were like, uh. You don't have anything. One. Why are we here? What do you do? You know, we just thought, maybe we should just be. Quiet probably. We are about to make the tightest turn. I have ever seen in the 30 foot boat. We moved away from the tourist centers of the city and into these smaller canals and... go around these tight turns. Alex would sing out to let the other boats know that we were coming. So here we have a crossway, this is why I shout out my direction in order to avoid accidents because he cannot hear the gondola arriving. You know we go under these beautiful archways. a gondola tour. Every channel has a different sound. There are some channels you have a lot of birds singing. Sometimes they fly in your face. So this is a beautiful entrance here wanted to show you. At one point our gondola cut through this rectangle of light. It was nice. I mean this side of Venice was unexpected and really beautiful but the whole time we were sitting on our not pads and we were definitely quietly panicking. Well you know I didn't know this at the time but I thought there was some you know I was like there maybe you're a little too young I think Alex was testing us. You know I didn't know this at the time but I thought there was some you know I was like there maybe you're a little too young I think Alex was testing us. They don't have enough experience maybe that was my concern what I like the I like the enthusiasm and I like the There was an honesty which I liked actually made plans to go out to dinner that night. And considering how the boat ride went, we thought at this point we should return the square one and leave the recorder at home and just trying to have a conversation. Anyway, we sit down outside and very few people are in the restaurant. We were the only table outside. They had to open. And when we got there too, we should say we met Alex's girlfriend, right? Yeah, I think we're just kind of making small talk. And we're just kind of making small talk, turns out Alex's girlfriend is a photographer. And the photos are really striking. Like one of them, Alex is just like drowning under the water. There's one that's just like Alex's back as to the camera. This ripped and muscular back. Yeah, like arms played, like looking out the window over the city of Venice. Venice is lone defender. Just like so badass and like kind of like superhero style. you to take these photos and you know like small talk friendly stuff and she kind of was like you know it was just it's so strange you know we thought we thought it was so clear we like the photos were so like they emphasized every masculine quality on Alex's body we you know in our artist statement you know we used all of the male forms in Italian you know like Louis like Louis which means he instead of lay which means she But everybody at the photo exhibit was like, oh, must have been a typo or you made a mistake. And she was like, which is funny because I'm Italian so I should know. And I was like, oh, pronoun, pronouns. Louis, he, Alex, she used he, he, Alex is a he, is Alex trans, like, oh my gosh, Alex is a transgender man. What I thought that meant was Alex was probably born in a body that he didn't identify with. Yeah, I mean mine was I didn't think transgender I didn't think I thought Alex is a guy of course Alex is a guy. Really? Yeah, I wasn't surprised were you surprised I wasn't that surprised I mean I'm not saying that the the pronoun thing isn't accurate I would say that like flipping into he not a thing like it was like it was like it was like Alex is he. He is sitting at the table with us. Alex and his girlfriend. Very quickly it was like him, I'm looking at him and then I start thinking about the story that we had come here to tell that was about all of the women things that she had done. Her, her, her, woman, hero, heroin. First female in 900 years, international symbol of female power. You start thinking about that and it's like... Those things are really hard to square in your head. This real person is also these stories and how did that happen? What has it been like for 20 years to be inside of that story when you're actually a man? what you would expect at all. Hey, I'm Jad Abumrod. I'm Robert Krollwich. This is Radio Lab, and today we're telling the story of Alex Hey, the first ever female gondolier. Someone who seemingly broke through this 900-year-old gender barrier and made headlines all over the world along the way, except, turns out, Alex isn't a woman. And after who knows how many articles about Alex, This is the first time that he's telling his story to the public and so we should probably stop for a second and talk about pronouns because this is really important for many transgender people. In moments when Alex was publicly understood as a woman and was getting international press for it, we've decided with Alex's permission to only use his name or his title of first female gondolier. While some of the people interviewed for this story were unaware that Alex is transgender and do use female pronouns or do refer to him as a woman, we're When we're talking about him, we will only use male pronouns. So after that dinner, we made plans for the next day. I saw we're gonna go somewhere on his motorboat and he would just take us to a quiet spot and we would talk. Was the agreement? On the water. On the water. Okay. And how does that begin? A lot of false starts. Well, I don't know. Maybe I can ask. Has anyone ever asked you what gender pronoun you prefer? No, never. Never happened. Ever. Ever. So after getting some of the basics out of the way, Alex kind of started at the beginning. No, you know. Never, never, never happened. Ever. Ever. So after getting some of the basics out of the way. Alex kind of started at the beginning. Well, you know, you know, it's a long story. was born transgender. This is in Germany. Alex tells us he was born with a female body but at a pretty early age knew himself to be a little boy. I knew already before I went to school. With three years I was standing on the toilet to pee inside. Alex says that you know for him he had the sense even