Decoding Revelation Gary Wayne!

Prometheus Lens

Host Doc Brown and guest Gary Wayne conduct a deep theological analysis of end-times prophecy, systematically deconstructing mainstream eschatological frameworks

Key takeaways

• Gary Wayne rejects pre-tribulationism, arguing it forces scripture into preconceived conclusions rather than letting the text dictate the timeline.
• The hosts propose a 'pre-wrath' rapture timing that occurs after the abomination of desolation but before the final hour of global trial and divine wrath.

Main topics

• Eschatology and end-times prophecy
• Rapture timing (pre-trib vs. pre-wrath)

Notable quotes

"Prophecy is like this big jigsaw puzzle. All the pieces have to fit and form the picture, and it's got to be a clear picture."

Conclusion

The episode provides listeners with an alternative hermeneutical framework for interpreting

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) Yeah, I basically reject all of the standard eschatological approaches that they start to rewrite scripture a little bit or leave out inconvenient details. You Speaker 4 (0:10) know, I bought in as a pre Speaker 3 (0:12) -trib believer. I had no reason to question it at that time. Okay, well, that makes sense. He's quoting some scriptures. But I had to walk away from that. And they all have the same. Speaker 3 (0:25) flaw They place all scripture around some preconceived conclusions. That's where I was saying, and yet we're getting clear writings about what Jesus is saying about end time prophecy and rapture as one of those events. It was part of the three questions he was asked, right? He was clearly asked three questions. Don't believe two. There's so much misinformation that's taught by eschatology. Speaker 4 (1:03) Disclaimer. To the Pharisees and Karens out there. Speaker 1 (1:05) How dare you? Speaker 4 (1:06) All guests on this show do not reflect the opinions of the host. Speaker 4 (1:10) The purpose of the show is to have interesting conversations, stretch our minds and grow. Speaker 4 (1:16) If you are looking for an echo chamber, viewer and listener discretion is advised. Speaker 1 (1:24) Talk about extreme. Speaker 4 (2:12) Hey guys, what is happening and what is up? Hey, hold out that glass because we are about to fill it up. Welcome to the Prometheus Lens Podcast, the place where the conversations are always enlightening. I'm your host, Doc Brown here. We like to use the allegory of the Prometheus Lens to take a second look at everything. Hey, if you are new to the channel, welcome to the hero's journey, but please be sure to hit that like button and smash that subscribe button. And while I got your attention, guys, please check out the banner. down below with all the social medias at the various platforms that would be much much appreciated well guys uh we got a returning guest uh one of my favorite men to sit down and nerd out with and talk about some of these biblical mysteries and ancient lost histories and things like that man and you guys love him too every time he comes on the numbers shoot through the roof and you request him back and he's a busy man i gotta space him out a little bit okay we can't just hoard him up man everybody wants a minute of this man's time I'd like to welcome back to the show, man, Gary Wayne. Gary, how are you doing, brother? Speaker 3 (3:11) Doing well, and thank you for inviting me back. And we've been working together for quite a while. I'm hoping that that will continue. And so, yeah, I always will make time for you, Justin, and try, no matter what's going on. I'm a pretty loyal individual, so, yeah. And again, you know, the topics that... you know, you like to talk about are different than other shows, which is why your success is there. And it's always fun to come on the show and to talk about things and, you know, see whether or not we can ruffle up some more feathers that, you know, you and I have recently had to endure. And, but you know what? If we're not creating some significant pushback at times, then... you know, perhaps we're not really pushing hard enough for ourselves. Speaker 4 (4:10) Exactly. Yeah, we had definitely ruffled some feathers up of someone here recently. You talk about these things and start exposing some of this stuff. Yeah, you're going to get a Speaker 3 (4:20) crosshair on Speaker 4 (4:21) your back. Yeah, Speaker 3 (4:22) feathers of a supernatural type of being is part of the allegory of the dragon. So, yes. Yeah, Speaker 4 (4:31) the feathered serpent. Yes, Speaker 3 (4:34) exactly. Speaker 4 (4:35) Well, your end times research, that's something that I personally have not dove into with you that I would actually like to since you brought it up now. You've done opened that door, brother. So we're going there with all the eschatologies and stuff. There's plenty of them out there for you. Which one is the most biblically sound and where are we at? And what's it looking like going forward with your interpretation of the scripture? Speaker 3 (5:05) Yeah, I basically reject all of the standard eschatological approaches. Speaker 3 (5:11) And there are ones that are closer to my position, but every one of them has a taint to it. Speaker 3 (5:21) that they start to rewrite scripture a little bit or leave out inconvenient details. Speaker 3 (5:28) And so... People should understand, though, I'm a contrarian. Speaker 3 (5:35) And I usually stand, but it's, you know, when I first. Speaker 3 (5:40) wanted to learn about prophecy through reading Hal Lindsey's work. I mean, I was, you know, I bought in as a pre-trib believer. No reason to question it at that time. Okay, well, that makes sense. He's quoting some scriptures. But I had to walk away from that because of a couple of reasons. One, I learned that there was other approaches out there. Well, they all can't Speaker 2 (6:05) be right. They're all Christians. Speaker 2 (6:10) Oh. but only Speaker 3 (6:12) one can be right. But is any one of them correct? And they Speaker 2 (6:16) all have the same. Speaker 2 (6:19) Flaw. they place all Speaker 3 (6:22) scripture around some preconceived conclusions. Speaker 3 (6:27) And that's the flaw. And you can't do that. You have to... Speaker 3 (6:34) Prophecy is like this big jigsaw puzzle. All the pieces have to fit and form the picture, and it's got to be a clear picture. And they don't fit if you're not putting the pieces together properly. You can force as much as you want, but it doesn't look right. And you can leave out pieces, but then you have holes in there. How come there's a hole there? And so my approach is a little bit different than others. And everybody says they do what I do until they have to rewrite what Jesus said, or they have to leave out this scripture, or they have to rewrite that scripture, or they have to infer, or they have to use something to define something that's not within the Bible. They all get to that sort of point. And I don't think you should have to do that. So my epiphany was there has to be a better way. Speaker 3 (7:34) arguing amongst Christians on end-time prophecy. And it doesn't mean my approach resolves the arguing because it just becomes another approach, right? But if you're tired of defending the indefensible, you're tired of rewriting Scripture, I can assure you there's a better way. And so my approach is a bit unique. It does end up with a after. the abomination timing of rapture, but as a consequence of putting Scripture together, but not mid-trip. Speaker 3 (8:12) But it's not free wrath. It's more. more nuanced than that in terms of the timing. Speaker 4 (8:19) I was always raised pre-trib, you know what I mean? Like you said, you're taught something and you don't question it. Then I got older and got to looking at it. I'm like, it doesn't fit the patterns of the Bible because when God brought the flood, he didn't magically pull Noah and his family out, you know, and then poof, put them back when it's all over with. No, they had to go through it. It was difficult. It was hard. He made provisions for them. But it was no cakewalk. They had to suffer a little bit. They had to endure. Speaker 3 (8:47) Yeah. Speaker 4 (8:48) Sodom and Gomorrah. There's so many. The plagues of Egypt. All these judgments of God. His chosen people are there for it. They got to suffer through it. But he provides for them. So I'm like, why would Speaker 3 (9:00) he Speaker 4 (9:00) change now? And the thing is, Speaker 3 (9:02) if you're going to make sound doctrine. Speaker 3 (9:05) you better have scripture that clearly says what you're saying. Speaker 3 (9:11) And unfortunately, in the beginning, I would accept, okay, there's not one scripture that says rapture occurs before the last seven years. Okay, I get that. But does the sum of the parts... put that together, and it really doesn't, unless you start to rewrite Scripture. So that's where I was saying, and yet we're getting clear writings about what Jesus is saying about end-time prophecy and rapture as one of those events. It was part of the three questions he was asked, right? He was clearly asked three questions. Don't believe two. So there's so much misinformation that's taught by eschatology. In Matthew 24.3, it clearly says that the disciples came to him and they wanted to know when the temple and Jerusalem were going to be destroyed. And then they asked, and, Kahi. Speaker 3 (10:19) What would be the sign of your coming? An, kahi, is another event. It can be used as then and when, and a variety of other reasons as an, but this makes sense, and as consecutive. The next question is, what will be the signs or the major events of the coming of the end of the age, or the end of the world? But world should be age there. It's aeon. Matthew 24.3, and as you link in Luke and Matthew, you get the events of the end of this age. And so those are the three things that they asked him. And so you look at what he says in Matthew 24. And I used Matthew as a template, and I put the additional details onto Matthew from Mark 13, Luke 17, and 21, and there was a couple other ones like Luke 9 and Matthew 16 that I might use for the topology and stuff like that. But you put the extra details on there, and it's quite clear that Matthew 24, 4 through 7, is giving you some of the events that's going to happen before the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, which happens about 40 years later. Speaker 3 (11:42) And then you have, starting in Matthew 24, 8, through to Matthew 15 to 20, the first three and a half years. Speaker 3