Moonshot mindset: meet NASA’s project boss
Project Podcast
In this episode of Project Podcast, Emma DeVito interviews Kevin Gilligan, NASA's Chief Program Management Officer, about the complexities of
Key takeaways
- NASA's Program Management Office (PMO) was established in 2022 to oversee major flight and research projects.
- The Artemis program serves as a critical transportation system for deep space and lunar vicinity exploration.
Main topics
- NASA PMO operations
- Artemis program
Notable quotes
I kind of see like the dreams of folks kind of soaring off into the heavens.
Conclusion
The episode provides a rare behind-the-scenes look at how NASA manages
Transcript preview
Speaker 2 (0:00) When you see that rocket going off, sure, it's fireworks and fun and loud and all that, but it's really the stories behind that that you see kind of, I kind of see like the dreams of folks kind of soaring off into the heavens. Speaker 1 (0:26) Hi, my name is Emma DeVito. I'm the editor of Project Magazine, and I'd like to welcome you to the Project Podcast. Today, I'm delighted to welcome NASA's Chief Program Management Officer, Kevin Gilligan, to the virtual studio. He's joining us from the agency's HQ in Washington, D.C. Kevin set up and runs NASA's PMO, which was only created in 2022. which oversees its Mission Impossible programs that include literal moonshots, including the development of a permanent base on the Moon, enabled in part by the successful and historic Artemis voyage earlier this year. The space sector is enjoying a huge and exciting resurgence in growth, investment and ambition. And it's Kevin's job to make sure NASA's programs and projects deliver on its vision and its missions. Welcome, Kevin, to the Project Podcast. It's brilliant to have you here. Thanks for finding the time. Speaker 2 (1:21) Lovely to be here. Thanks. Speaker 1 (1:22) Let's begin with the obvious question, which is for you to tell me a bit about your role and your responsibilities and what you do at NASA. Speaker 2 (1:31) Sure. Yeah. For the past 16 months, I've been serving as the Acting Chief Program Management Officer here at NASA, situated here in Washington, D.C., at NASA headquarters. In that role, we implement and steward our PM policies, our program project management policies for the agency, for all of our major flight projects and research and technology projects. In addition to that, a big part of my job is enhancing the role of the project manager across the agency. in every way I can, serve as a focal point here in the office of the administrator at NASA headquarters for anything regarding program and project management. And it is a statutorily required role to have this function. And so I also meet that for the agency. Speaker 1 (2:21) Okay. And how long have you been at NASA? Speaker 2 (2:23) I started in 2010. So just about 16 years at this point. Speaker 1 (2:28) Okay. All right. Can you give us an idea of how many project people you have at NASA? Speaker 2 (2:35) Yeah, so there's different ways to look at that. If you take the entire population of folks that really contribute more directly to project management, I would say counts in the thousands, around 3000 or so. And then, you know, we have hundreds of projects at any given time. And if you're talking about our major project portfolio, it's like anywhere from 25 to 35 over the course of past my career at least it's a number of major projects that we have okay Speaker 1 (3:06) so now we're talking about projects so I mean what a year for NASA so far Artemis has just grabbed the headlines everywhere it's completely inspiring and awesome and you know created a great deal of interest in new generations of people who who you know with their eye on the moon and what can be achieved but whilst we're talking about programs would you mind giving an overview of the well you said roughly the number of programs but what would be the which are the most important so which are the ones that are most critical for NASA at the moment Speaker 2 (3:39) Yeah, you know, each of the we're talking about, especially our largest programs, everything we do is is critical. I mean, we wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't. It comes a lot of what we do comes directly from the need for the for the nation on what what priorities we're trying to fulfill. So I have to do some kind of just a selection of of the fun stuff. So we have our Artemis program. And the Artemis program is basically, you can think about it as basically the transportation system from here into deep space. Lately, our focal target is the moon and the lunar vicinity and assist lunar space. And that consists of our giant SLS rocket, which has multiple parts in the ground systems and the comms that are all supported. It's all really part of the Artemis program. So the other big program that's brand new, that's catching a lot of attention is our moon base. And so just a few months ago, we announced the start of our moon based program. And over the next few years, you'll see many, many launches of small to medium sized landers and large landers and also, you know, drone reconnaissance spacecraft that will be exploring. service of the moon and really just establishing our um our presence on the moon in a sustained way so that's what really is uh different from uh our previous programs back in the 60s um is where we're going to stay and uh and have a sustained presence and then uh sorry i i've got Speaker 1 (5:16) i've got i've got to interrupt there because that's so normally when people describe their projects they're not talking about getting to the moon and mars and the humans humans on the moon so it's just it's pretty awesome before i move on i mean i've got to ask you how does it feel to be working for someone like nasa like when you when you have the kind of artemis voyager successes here and all the excitement around it do you i know it's your i know it's your day-to-day working life but do you have those moments where you kind of pinch yourself and think i'm actually here and and this is what we're working on Speaker 2 (5:52) Yeah, I think I do. Yeah, you're right. The day to day. I'm worried about a lot of the day to day challenges of getting things through the system and making the system work to enable those things. But yeah, I do have those moments, particularly when, well, the obvious thing is when we launch a mission into space, it really represents a culmination of thousands and thousands of hours and thousands of people. that dedicated everything in their careers towards that singular objective, that moment of transferring from the surface into space. And when you see that rocket going off, sure, it's fireworks and fun and loud and all that, but it's really the stories behind that that you see kind of... I kind of see like the dreams of folks kind of soaring off into the heavens and it's, and then I get a similar thing when I see, you know, images say, for example, from from our space telescopes, from James Webb Space Telescope, soon our Roman Space Telescope launching in September, when we see those images come home, for me, that represents the bigger picture of what we're doing, which is really expanding the knowledge and discovery of humanity and understanding the universe more and our place in it. An image is worth a thousand words. And, you know, in that case, I get those moments when I see those fantastic things come home. Speaker 1 (7:23) Sorry, I interrupted you about you telling me about the moon base. Yeah, Speaker 2 (7:28) I can tell you about two other missions I'll just pick out as ones that are really important this year in particular. We have our X-59, our X-plane, a supersonic demonstrator. And it's finally flying now after many years of development. And it's expanding its envelope of flight. patterns as it increases its velocity and making sure that we're safe as we fly this thing. But the objective there is to really return supersonic flight in the commercial space by demonstrating that it's possible to do quiet supersonic flight where the sonic boom is no louder than a car door closing in the street. And then the last one I want to point out is our Space Reactor 1 SR1 Freedom mission. which is a newly announced mission earlier this year targeted for launch in a couple years from now, in 2028, if all goes well, where we're going to demonstrate nuclear electric propulsion in space. For the first time in decades, we had one many decades ago, and we've been trying to get back, but this is a renewed push and one that has a lot of momentum and a lot of hope to demonstrate different propulsion technologies in space that will be... be a game changer for exploration. Speaker 1 (8:49) One of the things I just wanted to understand was how do the people who work For the PMO, I understand the PMO is pretty small. There's only four of you. So how do all the project people within the organization fit organizationally and like across missions? So like, is it matrix or can you tell us a bit more about that? Speaker 2 (9:11) Yeah, NASA is comprised of multiple centers distributed across the United States. We have 10 centers across many states. And so the centers really are the ones that implement. They have the workforce to implement the actual work. Then here at NASA headquarters, the way that we've