Kai Cenat on Quitting Streaming at His Peak to Start a Fashion Brand

Popcast

Kai Cenat, the former record-breaking Twitch streamer, discusses his decision to step away from streaming at its peak to launch his fashion

Key takeaways

• Cenat chose to step away from streaming at his peak not out of sadness, but as a necessary act of self-reflection and personal growth.
• He emphasizes the importance of taking time to deeply understand new fields like fashion rather than rushing into entrepreneurship.

Main topics

• Transition from streaming to fashion
• Creative burnout and self-reflection

Notable quotes

"I just kind of wanted to approach what I wanted to do very seriously."

Conclusion

Kai Cenat's journey from streaming icon to fashion designer exemplifies a

Transcript preview

Speaker 5 (0:00) I'm Winna Liu. I write the game Connections, one of the puzzles from New York Times games. And I love horror movies. I love my dog. And I love trying to trick you. Speaker 2 (0:09) I'm Tracy Bennett. I get to pick the wordle word every day, Speaker 5 (0:12) which is not as easy as it sounds. A fun fact about me is that I am descended from a witch who was put on trial in Salem. New York Times games are made by people, like the ones you just heard from. Go to nytimes.com slash games to start playing today. Speaker 1 (0:30) I love older people. Welcome to Bobcast. Speaker 3 (0:50) Welcome to the New York Times Popcast, your be delusional of weekly culture chat. I'm John Caramonica and I'm the critic. Speaker 4 (0:57) I'm Joe Coscarelli and I'm the reporter. I'm Kaisenat Speaker 3 (1:00) and I'm on Popcast. That's right. Speaker 1 (1:03) Kaisenat at the New York Times. We Speaker 3 (1:04) are Speaker 1 (1:04) here. Welcome to the New York Times. Oh, I'm glad to be here. I'm glad that you guys are in my hometown. Speaker 3 (1:10) Yeah, Speaker 1 (1:10) that's true. We're Speaker 3 (1:11) happy to be. Speaker 4 (1:12) Yes. This is obviously Kaissanat, New York native. Two Speaker 3 (1:15) New York, no shots. No, no, it's fine. Two New York Speaker 4 (1:18) natives. Florida. I grew up in Florida. I Speaker 1 (1:20) just hit 20 years, though. Brooklyn. What part? Sheepshead Bay. Okay. I grew up on Flatbush. So Flatbush, Bronx. Yeah, Bronx. A little bit of Atlanta. I'm in Atlanta now. Right. Yeah, back Speaker 3 (1:31) in Speaker 1 (1:31) Georgia. Speaker 3 (1:31) You cannot overstate the importance of Kaissanat to the modern internet. You just simply can't. For the last five or six years, Kai has been the person who has bridged the path between the live streaming ecosystem and the center of American popular culture. You know him from his extended live streams with celebrities like Ice Spice, 21 Savage, Kevin Hart, Drewski, Nicki Minaj. A lot of people. Speaker 3 (1:59) We'll talk about it. If you don't know him from that, you know him from his Mafia-thon extended stream in Streamer University. He also became the most subscribed to Twitch streamer in history. And then Kai did, I think, a very unusual thing, which is, I would Speaker 4 (2:21) say, Speaker 3 (2:21) at Speaker 4 (2:22) the peak of your powers, Speaker 3 (2:23) which you still have many peaks left to go, but at what many people would have considered a peak, you said... and good. Speaker 4 (2:30) Or you said, I need a break. I Speaker 1 (2:34) feel like sometimes people need to self-reflect and take a step back from the broad perspective of what their life has been. He posted a Speaker 3 (2:44) video on his YouTube channel called Speaker 1 (2:46) I Quit. That is why I quit. Speaker 3 (2:48) It was this extended rumination on, I would say, a bit of... Anxiety about what it might mean to only be known for streaming. Yes to your life And so what you did is you took a step back you started teaching yourself about fashion Yes, we are here on podcast just before your New York Fashion Week debut. Yeah crazy. That is your clothing line It's gonna be debuting not long after this video is out in the world. Um, we're gonna talk about all of that today Kaisna, welcome to PopCast. Speaker 1 (3:18) Thank you guys so much. I appreciate it. W's in the chat. W's in the chat. W's in the chat. Speaker 3 (3:22) W's in the Speaker 1 (3:22) chat. Speaker 3 (3:22) Even though it's, you know, like W's wherever you want Speaker 1 (3:24) to put W. Speaker 3 (3:24) W's in the comments Speaker 4 (3:25) while you're here. Speaker 3 (3:26) Yeah. Like and subscribe to Speaker 4 (3:28) PopCast. Jesus Christ. Like and subscribe. Teach us how to do this. Notifications. Yes. Notifications Speaker 3 (3:32) on. Comment Speaker 4 (3:32) down below. Everything. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 3 (3:34) We'll ask you about advice. Speaker 4 (3:35) We need some tips. We need Speaker 3 (3:37) some tips. While you're here, a quick bit of good news. If you are not already a New York Times subscriber, you can download the app. Right now, get one month free, no paywalls, get involved. Okay, so we started a couple of hours ago. We went to this sort of makeshift atelier. Yes, Speaker 1 (3:54) you Speaker 3 (3:54) guys did, Speaker 1 (3:54) yes. Speaker 3 (3:55) Came over to see the collection. Not a lot of people have seen the collection. You Speaker 1 (3:59) guys are the very first people to see the collection. Other than what you're wearing right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, Speaker 3 (4:03) yeah. What you decided to do, and you were documenting this the whole time. You had your journal, you were taking notes. and teaching yourself about clothing. Correct. Step by step. Correct. We saw at the Atelier, the actual journal. Yes, correct. Tell us a little bit about the decision to take a step away and say, it's actually the healthiest thing I can do for myself to humble myself Speaker 1 (4:28) and Speaker 3 (4:29) take myself out of the most obvious spotlight. Tell me what was going on in your mind in the weeks leading up to that. Of Speaker 1 (4:35) course, yeah. So I learned streaming for... a few years now and I've always been the type to push boundaries and try to try to expand the state of streaming to the best of my abilities and just try different things and before I finished my fifth on three well before I even started my fifth on three which is when I stream for 30 days straight where there's no privacy or anything 24 hours a day 30 days straight cameras everywhere yes a whole bunch of things planned a lot of stuff going on Truman Speaker 4 (5:01) Show Big Brother Celebrity Guest Speaker 1 (5:04) Charity stuff Crazy stuff yeah So before I even entered into starting that stream, I made sure and told myself, I said, I want to be able to take a step back from streaming to start to focus on things and other routes of things that I really want to do. But in order for me to figure that out, I had to take the time to understand how can I connect my world that I'm in now to whatever I want to do. Like, I have a lot of things. Like, fashion is just... one of the things I wanted to explore and always had in Speaker 5 (5:34) the Speaker 1 (5:34) back of my head. I feel like I just love the ambiance of it. And I like filming. I like making stories. I like making real. Speaker 1 (5:44) like just different chapters of different things I want to do. Like I want to direct one day. I want to do my own movies and film one day. You know what I'm saying? So I'm really in love with telling a story. Were you sad though? I wasn't sad. I wouldn't say I was sad or anything. It's just more of like I just kind of wanted to approach what I wanted to do very seriously. Yeah. And... Speaker 1 (6:04) Thankfully when I stepped back I was able to learn a lot about myself a lot of things in my life that was missing because I've always committed to streaming 24-7 and I truly do love streaming like yeah, I adore streaming I would never ever like stop when people seen that I quit yeah I was just me saying I quit overthinking and quit you know ever and I quit being in my head about certain things because Honestly fashion is a big world, but I feel like more attention needs to be on it because it's it's kind of amazing to just see people be in this industry where they can have an idea and then bring it to life. Speaker 3 (6:38) I think Speaker 4 (6:39) that's so cool. Speaker 1 (6:40) So when I went to approach it, a lot of people who are at the highest and peak of the level, they usually just be like, okay, yeah, let me start a brand. Let me just hurry up Speaker 5 (6:50) and Speaker 1 (6:50) start a product. Let me just do Speaker 5 (6:52) it Speaker 1 (6:52) quick. You know what I'm saying? But I feel like we need to take some time away or take some time and actually invest your energy into this field. don't let it be a grab for you. So you knew you Speaker 4 (7:02) couldn't be streaming and learning fashion from the ground up at the same time. I feel like I would not be able Speaker 1 (7:06) to do it simultaneously. I feel like there would be no way that I would literally be able to, because what I had to, I slept in factories. I literally... watched and talked to manufacturers face to face. I traveled the world. I got to learn about a lot of different materials and how that worked. I had to learn about where to go, who to connect with, who best fit my vision. And that's Speaker 5 (7:27) a Speaker 1 (7:27) whole journey. You know, what's funny about the journal is that the journal was nothing like planned or premeditated. Like, I was in a factory, a little factory in Italy, and when I went, they literally had a souvenir for me. And the souvenir, every time a customer comes in, they have a stack of journals there. And they gave me a journal. How funny. And I took that journal and I looked at somebody who was helping me. I looked at him and said, I think I want to take a picture and write down everything I learned in this journal. And I didn't know what was going to happen. So I literally had a Polaroid camera. I took a picture of everything I learned from when I was out there all the way until now. And then after... I designed the cover of it and everything. And I was like, I'm going to just learn everything and put it in here and have it to where people can see if they want to and just take some advice. What's Speaker 4 (8:13) funny is you were documenting your journey. Yes. In multiple ways. Yes. You took a step back from streaming, but you started a secret YouTube channel. Speaker 1 (8:21) For the past few weeks, I have been uploading videos to my secret channel this entire time. And Speaker 4 (8:26) then you were also doing. old-fashioned streaming, aka writing in a diary. Like writing in Speaker 3 (8:33) a Speaker 4 (8:33) journal. Like here I am, here's the date, here's how I feel today, here's what I did, here's what I learned, here's what I ate, here's who I met. You've been documenting your life for so long. You grew up watching people Speaker 3 (8:45) document Speaker 4 (8:46) their lives and then doing it yourself. Talk to me a little bit about consuming. Speaker 4 (8:53) early vloggers. I've seen you get so juiced talking about the Paul brothers, for instance. Speaker 1 (8:58) One thing I will always do is have respect for everybody who's coming to Lane before me. Because I feel like a lot of people who was in this Lane, they inspired a lot of kids today that would end up being something crazy in the future. And I knew, me and my mom always knew I wanted to be in front of the camera. Like when I was in middle school, I was in like theater classes. And then after I got my phone or a laptop or whatever it was, and I was on YouTube. And I love YouTube. To this day, back then when I was younger, I grew up on Roman Atwood, KYR Speedy, Vanoss Gaiman, and Casey Neistat. A lot of people. Early vloggers. I know a lot of early vloggers. My range is unbelievable. And I grew up on them. And I was like, yo, I want to do this. I hope one day I can be a YouTuber. If you look closely on a lot of people's tours and stuff, like Roman's tour. Like, you could see me in Speaker 3 (9:47) the Speaker 1 (9:47) background chasing his bus. No, really? Yeah, 13 years old. And just went. I would be the one commenting on the videos, like, liking people and stuff. And, yeah, I really loved their content. And I was like, one day I want to do it. And I did it. I believed in myself. Looking back at it now, it's like I'm so blessed and thankful to even be where I'm at today. There weren't a lot of people Speaker 4 (10:08) like you. You, where you came from growing up in the Bronx, having gone through the shelter system in the state of Georgia with your single mother, like a lot of the people you just named are from different slices of the world for you. Like, did you realize that you were going to become a poster child for a new kind of streamer to broaden the Speaker 1 (10:30) audience? I had, first of all, it's so crazy because I did not even have a bone in my body that wanted to stream. Like, I know I wanted to do YouTube. Okay, but even YouTubers. I always knew. One thing I would say is I always knew something in my life was going to happen. Speaker 3 (10:43) I Speaker 1 (10:44) don't know. It's weird to say, but I've always had a feeling in here that, like, I was like, something was going to happen. I remember, like, September 5th of 2019, I told myself, I was like, I want to post a YouTube video every two days in college and not miss it. Right. And I committed to it. And I locked in and I focused and I prayed and everything just came about and unfolded the way it did. But if you want to tell me if I knew it was going to be like a front line of everything that was going on, like I would not, not from where I'm from, like not from the Bronx. And sometimes I also question myself, like, I'm like, damn, out of everybody, you know, from this, from the city, let's Speaker 2 (11:26) just Speaker 1 (11:26) say the city of New York, like I was one of the few chosen to like. Had this big platform and it's I love it every time I wake up. I'm like dang This is crazy and Speaker 3 (11:36) one of the things about this kind of middle period after last October Speaker 4 (11:39) and then leading up to what we're about to do Speaker 3 (11:42) a fashion Speaker 4 (11:42) show Speaker 3 (11:44) You you sort of put yourself in the in a student position for a humble position, correct? Everything leading up to that though was up here. Yes your leads up up up up. Yes What did it take mentally to go from up here? Oh my god yourself to go down here. Okay, we're over So Speaker 1 (12:01) from the incline I was on Speaker 3 (12:03) yeah with Speaker 1 (12:04) streaming I know I know it I've done masters and I know everything I'm very comfortable with everything right taking myself and putting myself in another classroom like this class and world of fashion, like, I felt like a lost puppy. Yeah, Speaker 3 (12:17) sure. Speaker 1 (12:17) A lot of the times I was frustrated because I didn't understand, like, even all the different countries, I didn't understand what people were trying to tell me. I didn't understand why do I have to have so much people on my team? Like, why do I need this variety of people? Speaker 1 (12:31) I also was in my head about like, dang, you have to really make sure this comes off the ground and you have to be front line of creative direction. Speaker 5 (12:38) Because Speaker 1 (12:38) at the end of the day, it's your brand. So I did not even, I was lost. I was like, I think that's an understatement. I was very clueless on what to do. Did you want to give up ever? Not give up. Because once I say I'm going to do something, I'm going to do something. I did have, there was doubts creeping, there was like anxiety creeping in and doubts creeping in. I was just scared. Like, I didn't know, oh my God, did I just move too fast with this? And Speaker 4 (13:03) this wasn't like something that was imposed on you. It's not like you had a room of business managers who are like, you know how we diversify the Kaissan app brand? Nope. A fashion line. Nope. Speaker 1 (13:12) When I, when I, when I, um, when I had said it, they supported me. Everybody supported me. They're like, okay, you want to just stop? Stopped for nine whole months. Speaker 4 (13:20) Right. Speaker 1 (13:20) Talk to me about the Speaker 4 (13:21) burnout aspect of Speaker 3 (13:22) it. Speaker 4 (13:22) Because I think also Mafia Thaum 3, you said it was going to be your last sort of endurance stream. Are you holding to that now, nine months later? I feel Speaker 1 (13:31) like once you have a series or something, you have to know when to pull the plug. Or else it's just going to become like a, it's just going to keep getting burnt out. Speaker 4 (13:37) But Speaker 1 (13:38) in Speaker 4 (13:38) general, you were streaming so much, so fast, on all day, every day, increasingly. A-list celebrities want you. Brands want you. McDonald's, Nike. They want a piece of everything you're building. When you would go to bed at night, when you were able to go to bed without a camera on you. Speaker 3 (13:55) I don't know if people understand. People were literally watching you sleep for a month Speaker 4 (14:00) throughout all of these that you've done. When you had quiet moments, were you ever like... Streaming made all my dreams come true, but I don't know how much longer I can actually do it and remain myself. Speaker 1 (14:14) Streaming is something I would do forever. Well, however long I can do it for, right? I can't put into words how much I love streaming because it's not only helped me, it's helped my family, it's helped me also become the most creative person I can be Speaker 5 (14:31) and Speaker 1 (14:31) just shown me that things are limitless. Speaker 5 (14:35) When the cameras, they go off and I will Speaker 1 (14:36) go to sleep. Like it did, Speaker 5 (14:37) it does feel weird. Like after 30 days, it Speaker 1 (14:39) does feel weird. Like you're like, oh, I got privacy. Like nobody knows what I'm doing currently right now. But I never get like demotivated from it. One thing I always face that I've gotten a lot better at and I'm so excited because I have, I mean, the nine months has like made me a better person creatively, life-wise. I'm way more aware of stuff. But also I'm just so excited for... Now, like, just the different things that's coming into the future and, like, understanding that if you put real time behind certain things and plot it out the right way, it's good. Because I always had a thing where, like, I would go on a crazy run and I'd be like, I'd look at myself in the mirror like, how can I shift something again? Yeah. I'm at the point where it's like, I need to push boundaries that people don't think they can push. Yeah. But I have to be one of those people to just do it. Keep pushing. Because if I don't do it... The chances of somebody else doing it is just not going to happen. So I have all these ideas that get in my head, and I have to be able to be the one to get it out. And I always get to a point where I'm like, okay, how can I shift the culture of streaming again? Speaker 3 (15:42) How can I shift it one more time? Is part of the reason why you wanted to take time away from streaming because you don't yet know what that answer is for live streaming? Speaker 1 (15:51) I knew I was going to take time away regardless to then shift to... clothes and then find a way to connect and plug in both the worlds. But yes, my break was supposed to be longer. But then after, I was like, there's no way I could miss out on streaming university. Right. Speaker 4 (16:09) So talk a little bit about streaming university. And also, Speaker 1 (16:12) what takes Speaker 3 (16:12) more preparation, Streamer U or Vivette season one? Speaker 1 (16:15) Oh, Speaker 3 (16:16) Vivette took Speaker 1 (16:17) longer because I was new. I had a lot of trial and error, like talking to different people, messing up. Spending money over here, messing up. Hiring somebody, messing up. Like, it's just, it was just so much trial and error. And streaming you, I kind of did it once already, so I kind of knew exactly what to do. And they both are big projects. But they Speaker 4 (16:37) were building on each other. Yes. Because, like, when you're talking about pushing the boundaries of streaming, two of the ways you did that were, one, endurance. Yeah. Longer, more, bigger guests, et cetera. Crazy. That's the mafiathon. Streamer you, you decided, I'm going to... take all the lessons I've learned with streaming and give them to all the people who want to do what I do. Speaker 5 (17:00) Sanat announced that his famous streamer university will be taking in-person applications this afternoon. Speaker 4 (17:06) They'll have major professors. I Speaker 5 (17:08) think the classes have been super impactful. And Speaker 3 (17:10) then making content out of it along Speaker 4 (17:12) the way. So it's essentially a reality show. It's a boot camp. It is. In the streaming universe. Yeah, Speaker 1 (17:18) I love those two parts of this fire, but they're very different. My fifth one was... a solo project where it was like, you know, that's me. You're the center of gravity. Everything's Speaker 3 (17:28) coming to you. Speaker 1 (17:29) Before she met you, I was like, damn, I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to do anything that's going to top off here. To this right now, Shem University is hands down the best thing I've ever did. Speaker 3 (17:39) You think? Speaker 1 (17:39) Yes, like way better than what I've been able to obtain for myself and what I've been able to start for Mafia-thon. Like, the feeling of being able to help each other, I feel like you get to a certain point to where you can have a lot for yourself, but then you have to spread the love and the resources that you know on others. Speaker 4 (17:58) I'm interested in that aspect of it. In part because so much of your fan base is so young. You are like a hero to quite young children. Not all of your content is super family friendly, but kids love Speaker 3 (18:13) nothing more than watching Speaker 4 (18:15) something that feels a Speaker 3 (18:16) little inappropriate, you know, Speaker 4 (18:17) like in a silly way. Yes. As you've gotten older, I mean, you know, some of your earliest skits when you're doing a little bit more prank work, whatever, Speaker 3 (18:26) you know, you're you're a badass kid. Yeah, I was. You were Speaker 4 (18:30) making