Audrey Hobert on ‘Sue Me’ Success, Gracie Abrams, Malcolm Todd & Her Next Album

Popcast

Audrey Hobert discusses her rise to pop stardom in 2026, her songwriting process, her collaborations with Gracie Abrams and brother Malcolm

Key takeaways

Hobert attributes her success to consistent touring and grassroots fan engagement rather than a sudden viral moment.

Main topics

Rise to fame through touring and organic fan growth
Songwriting process and creative influences

Notable quotes

I just don't need to be thinking about that all the time. I don't want to be moving at all from a place of how am I being perceived.

Conclusion

Audrey Hobert emphasizes authenticity, mental well-being, and organic

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) I'm John Caramonica, a critic at The New York Times. And I'm Joe Cascarelli, a culture reporter at The Times. Together we host PopCast, a weekly pop culture chat show where we speak to the biggest musicians, actors, internet celebrities, and more. Speaker 3 (0:12) We've had Bad Bunny, Olivia Rodrigo, and Anne Speaker 2 (0:14) Hathaway. We've also hosted live performances with Andre 3000 and Erykah Badu. Plus we end every conversation with a snack. Catch new episodes of PopCast every week on YouTube and Speaker 3 (0:25) anywhere you get your podcasts. Speaker 4 (0:34) Well, what should we talk about? Speaker 2 (0:55) Welcome to the New York Times Popcast, your first roll strike of weekly culture chat. I'm John Caramonica, and I am the critic. I'm Joe Coscarelli, and I'm the reporter. Speaker 4 (1:05) I'm Audrey Hobart, and I'm on Popcast. Hell Speaker 3 (1:08) yeah! Speaker 2 (1:09) Nailed Speaker 3 (1:09) it. Speaker 4 (1:09) Made it. Speaker 3 (1:10) Audrey Hobart has been climbing all year to become one of the defining pop stars of 2026. Her debut album, Who's the Clown, came out last year. Her song, Sue Me, just hit the Billboard Hot 100 for the first time. Sue me, Speaker 1 (1:23) I wanna Speaker 3 (1:28) And she's been on tour for the better part of a year, playing to increasingly frantic, sold-out crowds with hits like Bowling Alley and Silver Jubilee. Speaker 2 (1:49) If you watch footage from Lollapalooza recently, you see tens of thousands of people singing Audrey's song back to her, something that she might have had a hint was going to happen when her earliest songwriting, along with her friend Gracie Abrams, ended up taking Gracie to the top of the pop charts. Speaker 1 (2:05) We wrote most of the album together, also Best Friend, also Soul Mane. Speaker 3 (2:12) Audrey, thanks so much for being here. Speaker 1 (2:14) Thank you. Speaker 2 (2:15) Really excited to have you here. Before we get into it, if you have not yet subscribed Speaker 3 (2:19) to our YouTube channel, that's youtube.com slash popcast, please do that right there. Hit the button, like and subscribe. More big interviews coming soon. Speaker 2 (2:28) Audrey Hobart says subscribe to Popcast. Speaker 4 (2:30) Of course. I'm a watcher and a listener. Speaker 3 (2:32) Thank you so much. Speaker 4 (2:33) There you go. Speaker 2 (2:33) If you are not already a New York Times subscriber, good news. You can download the app now. You get the first month. Totally free, no paywalls. Check it out. See us there. You've had this amazing run Speaker 3 (2:45) over the last few months. I think for a lot of pop artists in particular, the release of their album is the climax, but you've had a sort of old-fashioned rise where... Play a lot of shows been on tour forever. The grassroots support is building both IRL and online When did you know that you were gonna have this particular arc? Like was there a moment after the album came out where you're like, I think this thing has legs. I Speaker 4 (3:12) mean I Kind of I mean all of the whole music of it all felt like Wind blowing me in this direction. I'd be a fool to not go with the wind. But I didn't feel like I ever had any predictions. But I always believed in. The music and I just was like I want the ears of the world. I want people to hear this But I didn't really know about months or years but it just goes to show what hard work can do When did Speaker 3 (3:48) you feel it I mean Speaker 4 (3:50) everything feels like a little bit of a click, you know, I try and stay I do actually do a pretty good job of staying off the internet. Speaker 1 (3:58) Good for you. Speaker 4 (3:59) Yeah, but I did tap back in around Lollapalooza because I was like, let's just, I mean, that was crazy. You Speaker 3 (4:05) could tell, like, in real life that the internet reception would be positive? Speaker 4 (4:09) Yeah, well, there were a lot of people there. And mostly it was that Kyle, my friend, who's on tour, like, taking videos and photos, took this banging video from behind me of, like, the crowd and stuff. And I was like, I feel like I just got to post this. Speaker 4 (4:28) But I try and, like, stay away from what people say just because, well, for a lot of reasons I could get into later. Get Speaker 3 (4:36) into them now. Like, what's the, what is the thing you're trying to avoid? Speaker 4 (4:40) I just think, like, the nature of this job is such, it's rooted in an obsession with yourself. Like, I just think. It's the most self-obsessed job I've ever had. The Speaker 2 (4:56) writing and the performing? Speaker 4 (4:57) Yeah, just like the building of it. The building of it. It's very exciting. And I think what I've noticed that the internet does is instead of like me feeling negatively affected by what people are saying about me or positively affected by what people are saying about me, I find that like it's just I am thinking about myself more. than I would in terms of like perception. And I'm looking at my own profile through the eyes of anybody else. And then that makes you think about yourself in a weird lens. And I think we already are already like concerned in real life by what people think of us. And so I just didn't like, I don't want to like think more of myself in that way. So that's why I stay off. But yeah, I've been tapped back in. So I've been. been thinking about it. This is Speaker 3 (5:51) a perception that you were preoccupied with even before you were famous. Like you write about that idea on Thirst Trap of like imagining somebody else seeing your profile or what you post. Speaker 3 (6:11) So I think you're right that that's like a part of the modern condition that is then like super, super heightened when you yourself are a product. Speaker 4 (6:19) Totally, because it's not like normal. Oh, what does my crush think of me? What do my friends think of me? It's like, what do strangers think of me as an artist? And I'm just like, that seems like a huge question. And I just don't need to be thinking about that like on my walk at 2 p.m. and it's Tuesday. I just don't need to be thinking about that all the time. I also think it would. I don't need to be moving at all from a place of how am I being perceived as this like, I don't like when people ask me about what, how would you describe your aesthetic? I'm like, I don't have an aesthetic. Sure. I'm a human being. I don't know. I don't have an aesthetic. Was Speaker 2 (6:56) there a particular thing that happened in the sort of beginning of the arc where you were like? Oh, okay, this is toxic. Speaker 4 (7:03) Yeah, yeah, I did. After Sumi came out, the week after, so I had not had TikTok on my phone ever, but I had an account. And I had TikTok on my phone for a week, and I was just obsessed with what people were saying. And I had, I... I pulled up Photo Booth and I pressed play and I was like, I'm removing myself from this. I'm like holding myself to this via Photo Booth. You were Speaker 3 (7:28) speaking to yourself via Photo Booth. And you posted it or it was just for you? Nah, Speaker 4 (7:32) yeah, it was just for me. I go back and look sometimes to remind myself. So Speaker 3 (7:35) you like do, you have vlogs on your Photo Booth? Speaker 4 (7:38) Yeah, I tend, yeah. I sometimes. Speaker 3 (7:41) But personal, Speaker 2 (7:41) but non-public vlogs. Speaker 4 (7:43) My biggest secret is that I want to be a YouTuber. Speaker 1 (7:47) Boston, where are you? I'm sorry, Boston. I didn't shower. Speaker 4 (7:52) Periods Speaker 1 (7:52) of Speaker 4 (7:52) daylight. Feeling huge. Speaker 3 (7:54) What was it on YouTube that you were watching as a kid where you were like, I should do this? Like Emma Chamberlain? Yes. Who else? I Speaker 4 (8:02) was watching it more in college. When I got to college is when I started watching it. Her. I watch a lot of like kind of semi-Mormon women that I won't name. They're Speaker 3 (8:11) huge. Now? Yeah. Speaker 4 (8:12) It's not the wives, but it's like really just white girls like going about their days. I really like it. I think I don't watch it as much anymore, but I, yeah, I thought I could do a really good job, but I just never let myself, but I have like made and edited full vlogs that I will never post. And Speaker 2 (8:30) in those vlogs, you're just living. I'm Speaker 4 (8:33) just taking out, taking you through a week in my life. How are Speaker 2 (8:35) you filming? Just Speaker 4 (8:37) iPhone, sort of like landscape. You're Speaker 2 (8:39) in like a stick? Speaker 4 (8:40) I do have a selfie stick. I've never used it for a vlog. Speaker 2 (8:43) Okay, so you're just... Speaker 4 (8:44) Yeah, I filmed one once when I was living in my ex-boyfriend's apartment. It was like I was between jobs and my car broke down that week. I got a new car that week. It was like, I just was like... You're like, I have a lot Speaker 3 (8:56) to tell the world. Speaker 4 (8:57) Yeah, yeah. And I just went back and watched it actually a few weeks ago just to remind myself of where I once was. And it was beautiful. I loved that girl. I am still her, but it's different now. You Speaker 3 (9:07) miss her? Speaker 4 (9:08) I think that's the thing I've been most worried about throughout this foray into career is that I am going to change fundamentally. It's the reason why I stay off the internet. It's the reason why I, I don't know, in these settings specifically, like before, you know, we just, we sat down, I did like a photo shoot for you guys. And I am just like, I think I just want to have fun. I just want to have fun. It can't be too serious. I don't want to feel too serious about anything. And I think that's the thing I'm trying to preserve from who I was before all this. Is Speaker 2 (9:46) it futile? Define Speaker 4 (9:50) futile. Speaker 2 (9:51) Like, is the notion that all of this will not or cannot or you hope it won't change you, do you feel, like, confident that you'll be able to say that in... two or three years? That this Speaker 4 (10:03) didn't change me. Speaker 2 (10:03) Yeah, or do you think just the sheer condition of doing things like this, touring, all the sort of requirements that go with it? Speaker 4 (10:13) Yeah. Speaker 2 (10:15) At a certain point, do you just wake up one day and be like, I didn't even know I was changing? Speaker 4 (10:19) I try and control everything all the time, and I had that realization recently just with being on tour, with doing stuff like this. It's like I've been so concerned that I'm going to be changed naturally, but it's like at the end of the day, I would have been changed regardless of this being the thing that I'm doing now. You can't really hyper control how you are. And again, worrying brings you nothing. Stress kills you. Like as long I've kind of. Just decided that as long as I'm having fun, as long as I'm present, as long as I'm being nice to the people around me, then I can change. I can change. I'm allowed. You Speaker 3 (11:04) come at this from a really interesting vantage in that your childhood best friend, Gracie Abrams, past podcast guest. I Speaker 1 (11:13) was basically kind of like every other night sleeping in Audrey's. We would share a full bed. And it was like the... It was just the total dream. Speaker 3 (11:23) Maybe you guys would come back together. You guys would Speaker 1 (11:26) have a lot of Speaker 4 (11:27) fun. You're Speaker 3 (11:28) like, we're really fun together. We are the Speaker 4 (11:31) most fun together. I Speaker 3 (11:32) believe you. You were roommates as her career was taking off. You contributed to the writing of some of her earliest songs, which pushed you into this pop spotlight. I think of something like That's So True, one of Gracie's break out songs that you have a writing credit on. What did you take from that as a songwriter that you brought to your work? And then what did you take from witnessing her career rise more generally? Speaker 4 (12:10) Okay. I want to start by saying, it's something I've wanted to say for a long time, Speaker 1 (12:17) that it's... It's generally awkward to talk about like your real life best friend or Speaker 4 (12:25) your real life brother on a podcast. I love to talk about them privately. I love to talk about them to their face. And it's weird. Speaker 2 (12:39) Because you feel like you have a true answer inside of you that. Speaker 2 (12:46) Does not translate in this setting. Speaker 4 (12:49) Um, I don't know if it's that I just think like it's just it's to be on it's it's as awkward as uncomfortable and it's high pressure and whatever you say is probably not the thing that you actually I never feel like I can get my words out the best I can in a setting like this I try very hard but that being said I've done it a lot and I love to she is one of my top four friends that I would love to publicly speak about. Sure. Speaker 3 (13:22) I guess I'm less interested in you speaking about her than in your experience as a songwriter and then an aspiring pop star. Yeah. Sort of having most people who go on that path don't have somebody so close to them that was on a similar path, but slightly ahead of them. I imagine that could be helpful as a career thing. Well, she's the Speaker 4 (13:42) reason for the path. She's the entire reason. I had never written music before. I had known her forever. We were living together. We were always very creative. The pulse of our friendship was rooted in creativity. We loved to talk about music. I loved to hear her music. And it really just happened one day. And I didn't... feel like super aware of what was going on as it was happening. It just felt like I've always been so fascinated by what she did. And then I got to go along with her and I'd always hear about it from her, but then I got to go and be a part of it. And it just was like. Speaker 4 (14:27) I was realizing what was happening as it was happening, which usually in life I find I am like, I could see, I see it down the road and I'm going to go for it and whatever. And it was like, huh? I wasn't like, wow, I'm good. Speaker 1 (14:39) I Speaker 4 (14:40) was like, oh my God, I'm having so much fun with her. And that's, that's the truth that I was able to get out of this now. Speaker 2 (14:46) But I think to Joe's point, like being in it and then doing the thing that actually you were alluding to earlier, where you're sort of like, wait, have I changed? Like, am I? am I different now? Like I, I'm here. I didn't know I was going to be here. And then I just woke up and I'm here. You grabbed that by the reins. I did. You didn't say, Speaker 4 (15:04) no, no, Speaker 2 (15:06) no. Speaker 4 (15:06) And I think I can attribute that to my age, like the age that it happened to me. I was like 24, 25. Sure. Around the time this was happening. I had worked a few different jobs. And it was like I discovered I had a talent. And I was like, I'd be a fool to not go for this. And really, it's like I say, like I had. Imposter syndrome when I worked at a restaurant. I had imposter syndrome when I was a PA on a CBS show. And then I... did not have imposter syndrome on my first day as like a session songwriter. You Speaker 3 (15:43) alluded to this, you, in your mid twenties, you'd graduated from college. You were aspiring to work as a television writer. Yeah. And I did. And you did. For two Speaker 4 (15:52) seasons. Speaker 3 (15:53) It's what your father does. You got a job on a Nickelodeon show. And while you were doing that, were you thinking? This is my talent. I'm on this path. Nothing can blow me off of this path. Or was the songwriting already creeping in as you were becoming professionalized as a television writer? Speaker 4 (16:14) Towards the end, but at the beginning, I was like, because I went to college for screenwriting, I really like from high school, I was like, that's what I want to be. Speaker 4 (16:28) I loved it. I like the community of it. I like that it's a room full of people. There were some things about it that I was like, that does not jive with who I am. Like there is a competitiveness in terms of pitching and jokes and storylines that I, I was so young and new and everyone around me was more seasoned. And I just figured sometimes I'm just going to sit here and if I really think of something, I... I'll say it, but I don't want to watch everybody. But the thing that I did feel always was I kind of want to write autobiographically. Speaker 1 (17:04) And Speaker 4 (17:05) you can't write autobiographically really for a Nickelodeon show. Speaker 2 (17:10) I actually was sort of curious about the actual, the work of writing for young characters. Speaker 2 (17:19) When I think of Nickelodeon shows more broadly, you know, you think like, damn, these are some precocious ass 10 year olds. And I wonder if you could talk about the mindset of trying to write a precocious child. How much of that is in your head? How much of that is bouncing off of people who have done it before and say, oh, no, a 10 year old would say it like this, not this. Speaker 4 (17:39) That is actually because I was the youngest person. I was sort of sometimes there to. like course correct sounds intense, but be like, they would probably say it like this, or this is not how