Trump TV, Meta’s Muse Charm, and Xi in D.C.

Pivot

The episode explores the intersection of political maneuvering and technological innovation, beginning with the legal battle over White Hous

Key takeaways

• A federal judge ruled that the Trump administration's ban on CNN, MS NOW, and Politico was likely unconstitutional.
• Trump TV's launch failed to sustain momentum, dropping from 8,000 to under 4,000 viewers within 90 minutes.

Main topics

• White House Press Access
• US-China AI Diplomacy

Notable quotes

Banning the press is like holding your breath to punish the air.

Conclusion

The episode serves as a warning about the erosion of democratic norms

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) Support for the show is brought to you by Constellation. Carbon-free power is more important than ever, and businesses need clean energy they can also count on. Constellation is the nation's number one producer of emissions-free energy, generating about 10 % of America's clean power and delivering abundant, around-the-clock baseload power to the grid. That means Constellation's carbon-free energy helps avoid annual emissions equivalent to taking more than 32 million cars off the road, all while supporting communities and grid stability. That's why more than 2.5 million customers nationwide and 80 % of Fortune 100 companies trust Constellation for reliable, clean energy. See how you can reliably power your business operations at ConstellationEnergy.com. Speaker 5 (0:41) I've got a text. The summer might be almost over, but a new bombshell has entered the villa. Meet the voices of DeepGram Flux TTS. I'm Drew, low-key casual. I'm Alexis, an upbeat morning person. I'm Hayley, always cheerful. Flux TTS has some real personalities that are ready to speak. You can interrupt, pause, and keep talking without losing the plot. Fancy a chat? Come try all the voices free through September 12th at deepgram.com slash keep talking. Terms apply. Speaker 3 (1:11) Support for the show comes from CoreWeave. Everywhere you look, AI is expanding what we thought was possible. And at the center of it all is CoreWeave. Medical research and diagnosis, education, complex visual effects for movies, science and technology breakthroughs. CoreWeave powers AI pioneers around the world with purpose-built tech, building what's never been built before. CoreWeave is the essential cloud for AI. Ready for anything, ready for AI. To learn more about how CoreWeave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweave.com slash ready for anything. Speaker 1 (1:44) Banning the press is like holding your breath to punish the air. Speaker 6 (1:51) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And Speaker 1 (1:56) I'm Scott Galloway. Speaker 6 (1:57) Scott, we're both in hotel rooms. It's so seamy. Speaker 1 (2:00) Yeah, where are you? Speaker 6 (2:01) I'm in Vienna, Austria. Speaker 1 (2:03) Oh, God, that sounds like a big speaking fee. You're in big speaking fee stand. Speaker 6 (2:08) No, I'm doing, I did a favor for a school here. They did fly me here. But anyway, you know, I speak German. I don't know if you know that. Speaker 1 (2:15) I did know that because you wanted to be a spy, but you're like, I'm here and I'm queer and I wouldn't let you. Speaker 6 (2:20) But you know Speaker 1 (2:21) Austria's biggest accomplishment. Speaker 6 (2:24) Edelweiss? I don't know what. Speaker 1 (2:26) No, convincing everyone that Hitler was German. Speaker 6 (2:29) Oh. Speaker 1 (2:31) Start that. Open that. Open that tonight at your talk. I think I Speaker 6 (2:34) shat. Open with that one. You know, it's great. I just ate at the moment. That is good. That is actually good. That Speaker 1 (2:41) is Speaker 6 (2:41) good. I don't usually like a Hitler joke. The Speaker 1 (2:44) dude was Austrian. People think of him as being pretty German. Nope, Austrian. Speaker 6 (2:50) Yeah. He's my Speaker 1 (2:51) favorite actor. Anything he stars in, I'll watch. Seriously. Speaker 6 (2:55) I know. Anything Speaker 1 (2:55) with it. World War II and color. That's the kind of shit I'm watching Speaker 6 (2:59) now. Speaker 1 (2:59) The Speaker 6 (3:00) whole discovery success has been about that. Speaker 1 (3:01) But there's a Speaker 6 (3:02) lot of these videos of Trump yelling at the pilots of Air Force One and all the helicopters. And so they call him Hissy Fittler. Speaker 1 (3:12) That's pretty good. That's pretty good. Speaker 6 (3:14) Let's not make any more Hitler jokes. Let's not do it. No. Let's not. Anyway, I'm here in Austria. It's lovely. A beautiful place. And we're both in hotel rooms. It's very samey. And for all Speaker 1 (3:23) of those men out there that have been texting me that they find me offensive. Speaker 6 (3:27) Yeah. Speaker 1 (3:28) And that I should really dial it back. Yeah, I saw that. No, well, I've been contemplating and taking the remarks seriously as I make their wife's boyfriend a sandwich. Speaker 6 (3:37) Oh, my God. Speaker 6 (3:39) You stop. Is that Speaker 1 (3:41) wrong? Speaker 6 (3:42) People are mad at us. Well, no, not mad at us. I am in the tabloids now because I job. No, Speaker 1 (3:47) no, no. People are mad and disgusted with me. People are just like, I don't know, like, oh, Speaker 6 (3:52) Tara, Speaker 1 (3:52) she's leaving. No, no. Speaker 6 (3:54) Now I'm in the tabloids. I'm leaving because. You're Speaker 1 (3:57) in the Speaker 6 (3:57) tabloids? Yeah, no. I'm in the tabloids now because the reason I'm leaving is because the person who runs CBS News, I used to go out with their wife. And that seems to be interesting. That's my reason for leaving, which is insane. Speaker 1 (4:08) So I can verify, I can validate for all the people out there, that's not why you're leaving. You're leaving just because you're a pain in the ass and really irritable. I'm a pain Speaker 6 (4:14) in the ass. That is correct. That is correct. I'm a pain in the ass and I just want to go. Just leave me alone. So anyway, I've said this many times and I want them to stop because it's... It's just irritating. I just want to go. That's all. I don't think these are good owners. Speaker 1 (4:29) When you say, I want them to stop. Stop what, Kara? Just leave. Speaker 6 (4:32) Well, all this leaking and all that, like even covering it. Who cares? Who cares? Me. I'm small. If it was like Anderson Cooper. Speaker 1 (4:39) Well, yeah, but you keep announcing you're leaving. No, Speaker 6 (4:42) let me do that. Speaker 1 (4:43) Don't make me dance. I'm leaving. No, I'm Speaker 6 (4:46) just, people ask me. But I brought the receipts. You're being a Speaker 1 (4:50) little bit of a diva. I understand, but that's because I'm, you Speaker 6 (4:54) know what? Do you know? They call me the spirit animal of CNN. Lots of people there are very happy. The spirit. That's what Lachlan Cartwright called me. I know I'm their spirit. I am speaking for a lot Speaker 1 (5:04) of Speaker 6 (5:04) people. I think you're more Speaker 1 (5:04) the spirit airlines of CNN. The spirit Speaker 6 (5:06) airlines. Speaker 2 (5:07) I'm just going to, let's play the receipts. I'm walking right out of there the day they get there. No way I'm working for these terrible people. I Speaker 6 (5:14) will be leaving. I don't care to stick around. I'm leaving Speaker 2 (5:17) as soon as I can. I don't want to work for the Ellisons and I don't want to work for their handpicked minions because I think they're incompetent. Speaker 6 (5:24) Anyway, look, I'm just going, you're right, I should hush. So, Speaker 1 (5:27) as I said to my ex-wife, okay, then leave. Speaker 6 (5:32) You know, I like them so much. I like the CNN people so much. Actually, Speaker 1 (5:37) that's not true. My ex is a wonderful woman. Speaker 6 (5:40) Yes, yes, yes. Exes are always wonderful. Our Speaker 1 (5:43) separation, unlike your separation from CNN, was tragically amicable. Speaker 6 (5:47) Oh, was it? Most of mine were. Most of mine. But in general, you know, Megan's always around. You've seen Megan showing up to a million things. I was married to her for a long time. Yeah, I Speaker 1 (5:56) like Megan. She's great. She was literally, my favorite story about Megan was I did this big thing at South by Southwest, and there was a line of people to ask me questions. So she decided to help me out and stood next to me and answered most of the questions for me. Speaker 6 (6:13) That is Megan. That's a Megan classic. Speaker 1 (6:17) It was literally if someone said, what do you think of AI? I'm like, well, it could go good or bad. And she'd immediately go, what he means by good is that. And I'm like, Jesus, who is this? Speaker 6 (6:26) Scott translator. Who is this? Anyway, I like all my exes. They all live in Texas. I don't know how I got here. Speaker 1 (6:33) But, you know, I gave you my advice. My prediction. Speaker 6 (6:36) Yeah. Speaker 1 (6:37) CNN does $1.8 billion a year and $600 million in cash flow. The Ellisons aren't going to fuck with that. Speaker 6 (6:45) Yeah, maybe. We'll see. They can fuck Speaker 1 (6:48) with 60 Minutes. Nobody cares. That makes a lot of money. Speaker 6 (6:52) No, it Speaker 1 (6:53) doesn't. It's Speaker 6 (6:53) a Speaker 1 (6:53) tiny business. It's Speaker 6 (6:55) like Speaker 1 (6:55) a $60 or $80 million business that I doubt even breaks. Maybe it breaks even. No, Speaker 6 (6:58) no, Speaker 1 (6:58) it makes Speaker 6 (6:59) money. It makes money. And Speaker 1 (7:00) a lot of people say 80 % of the wind that's still in its sails is because I think it precedes or follows football. Anyway. It reminds me of that scene in Succession. Do you remember that scene where Tom is talking to the very handsome Scarce guard kid? Speaker 6 (7:14) Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 (7:16) He's a tall drink of lemonade. Speaker 6 (7:17) I'd even like him to be my ex. I'm Speaker 1 (7:19) a Speaker 6 (7:20) lesbian. Go ahead. He's Speaker 1 (7:21) interviewing Tom to be the head of what is, I guess, supposed to be Fox. Speaker 1 (7:27) God, I just thought of another line when Logan Roy is roaming around the newsroom and Tom's friend, I forget the kid. Yeah, Greg. He looks like Santa Claus. If Santa Claus were an assassin. Speaker 2 (7:39) That's what the word looks like. He says, Speaker 1 (7:40) what's your philosophy? He goes. you know, I serve up food, people eat what they want, if they like this. He's sort of apolitical. And the guy says, decides to make him CEO because he's, I think he realizes, I need the cash flow. I think the Ellisons are going to make the same decision. I don't think they're Speaker 6 (7:57) going Speaker 1 (7:57) to fuck with us. Speaker 6 (7:58) Yeah, one hopes. I Speaker 1 (7:59) would bet they massively up Mark Thompson's contract. I bet they won't. They're going to want, if they're smart, and they are smart people, they're going to want to stabilize the boat. They're not going to want to come in with guns blazing. I mean, they wouldn't do anything really fucking stupid like bring in Elon. Speaker 6 (8:17) I know. Did you see that? Oh, my God. I saw that. That's another one. I'm like, what is happening? Who could they bring in that would offend me more? I'm trying to think. Speaker 1 (8:26) Every media story, literally every media company is becoming billionaire potluck. The same people show up with their own media company. It's like sports Speaker 6 (8:33) teams. Like, go away, you people. That's enough to send me out. That's Speaker 1 (8:37) not Speaker 6 (8:37) going to happen. I love him. That ex of mine, I don't want to see again. You're going to leave twice. You're going to leave twice. I shall, you sir, how dare you, sir. Speaker 1 (8:49) You have insulted my honor. Speaker 6 (8:52) How dare you, sir, slap, slap, anyway. You're like Speaker 1 (8:54) that guy, Phil Leotardo, in that great scene from The Sopranos, where he's like, talking about how back in the old country, his family was disrespected, and he's like, no more. Speaker 6 (9:04) No more. You know, that's my background. My grandfather was a miner figure in that area of the world. In the Speaker 1 (9:11) mob? Speaker 6 (9:12) Well, a mob adjacent. And now you're on a coal mine? Yeah, mom adjacent is what I would say. Anyway, we've got a lot to talk to today. No one cares about us. It's so stupid, but it's good to raise important issues about journalism, ethics, and competence. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, so let's dig in. It matters. Oh, my God. I'm going to tell you why it matters. No, we're not precious. Speaker 1 (9:36) You're Speaker 6 (9:36) so anti. But let me just tell you, a federal judge ruled Speaker 2 (9:40) that Trump's ban on CNN, MSNOW, and Politico was likely unconstitutional, granting a temporary restraining order telling the White House to immediately return, reinstate, and restore press credentials. It looks like they haven't gotten the memo. They're probably terrified of Trump in order to carry it out. As of this recording, some staff from all three outlets are still being denied access. It's not clear whether it's incompetence or Trump. worry. They just filed for a request for an emergency hearing. Of course, the story will probably change 15 more times by the time people listen to this episode. Maybe the people will be in, whatever. The judge also rejected, for now, the administration's argument the ban was necessary to protect national security, which is specious. He questioned the stories the White House used to justify the ban, saying they were routine and noting that some were months or even years old. By the way, the source for a Politico story cited by the White House was Vice President J.D. Vance, according to Status. I have been to those kind of briefings. What happens is they do these briefings where you say a source close to the president. It's always like either the president or the secretary of state. And Speaker 4 (10:40) so Speaker 2 (10:40) that's I've been to those. They're so ridiculous and stupid when when you have to do them. And I stopped doing them. But they're so incompetent. It's just I can't tell whether it's incompetence or they just don't know what to do with Trump or they're they're worried Natalie's going to be mad. I don't know. I just. He should back down because the microphones are terrible. Like, it's really kind of comical to watch the whole thing going on. And speaking of Trump's TV coverage, I love your comments on this. The White House launched Trump TV, a 24-hour YouTube channel with the administration's, quote, greatest hits unfiltered, all in one place. It's not exactly breaking the Internet. It peaked at around 8,000 viewers at launch and dropped below 4,000 within 90 minutes. As you record the stream, it currently has 667 viewers. Just so you know, most... Pivots have a couple hundred thousand or more. Luckily, Jimmy Kimmel has come Speaker 6 (11:30) to the rescue with some excellent programming ideas. Let's look at this promo. Speaker 5 (11:34) Coming this fall to Trump TV from the bigly mind behind some of your all time favorite shows. Donald J. Trump presents entertainment for every patriot in your life. The All-White Lotus. Epstein Island. America's Most Dangerous Windmills. Pimp My Reflecting Pool. Melania's Book Club. The Pit, where Kristi Noem shot her dog. No Friends. My Two Idiot Sons. My father loves DJing. Small Handsville. Extreme Makeover, White House Edition. Orange is the New President. How I Met Mother, and Jimmy Kimmel Dead. Trump TV is must-see TV. Literally. If you don't watch it, you will be deported. Streaming exclusively on your Grandpa's Dell computer. Still got it, Donald. Still got it. Speaker 6 (12:35) All right. So all of this is obviously autocratic handbooks and state-run TV. So this Speaker 2 (12:42) is ridiculous. I know you say distraction, but it really, there is something very meaningful here about the First Amendment and the ability of people to just report basic news from the White House. This seems insane on some and many levels. Your thoughts? Speaker 1 (12:55) Well, we always make predictions on Friday. This is an easy one. He's going to back down. He doesn't, Trump doesn't need CNN's respect. He needs its attention. And for him, attention and coverage is oxygen and banning the press is like holding your breath to punish the air. It really doesn't make any sense. And Speaker 6 (13:17) the Speaker 1 (13:18) most interesting thing here from a quote unquote democracy standpoint is how many days of ignoring a judge's order do we begin to normalize? Speaker 6 (13:31) Right. Oh, very good point. Yeah. Speaker 1 (13:32) And I think at some point, unfortunately, one of the really many dangerous things about the Trump administration is they get these orders and then they hum and haw and kind of wait until the Speaker 6 (13:42) last minute. Speaker 1 (13:42) They're sort of playing chicken with our democracy constantly. So and then the kind of the fun one or the kicker is the Vance detail. And that is. The White House cited a leak as a national security threat. And of course, the leaker was the vice president. It's organized. Speaker 2 (14:01) What Speaker 1 (14:01) people didn't Speaker 2 (14:03) get Speaker 1 (14:03) is... It's Speaker 2 (14:03) not Speaker 1 (14:03) a security breach. It's Speaker 2 (14:04) a Speaker 1 (14:04) mirror. Speaker 2 (14:05) Literally, they organized these things for the press who was working there. And so they can quote someone from the administration without it having his name on it. This is a common practice. And what they do is they, for people who don't know, they bring groups of reporters in and Vance briefs them. And then you have to say a source close to the administration. That's the rule. That's the rule of the thing. So that's even like, it's not even like secret leaking that Vance did. This was organized leaking by... presumably, Levitt when she was working there. I think they don't have a PR person there anymore, you know, and it's Natalie and Trump sort of working it out. The Trump TV thing was pretty surprising. The numbers are so low. Like, wow. Like, gosh. Speaker 1 (14:50) When I was probably, I don't know, when I was in junior high or high school, in Westwood, we had something, we had cable call, and it was called the Z Channel. And it was this box with little... buttons on it for each channel and it had a cord that ran all the way to the TV. Speaker 6 (15:06) Oh, wow. Speaker 1 (15:06) And one of my first major business lessons was the cable guy was outside messing around with the cable box. And I was watching him and I was bored and he was putting in all these things and they were blockers such that my mom and I couldn't afford cable TV. So when I pulled up the Z channel, it would go, and you couldn't see it. Like you could see it for a second. And when you're a 13 year old and you have Cinemax. You would spend a half an hour just to occasionally see a boob or something. And I walked up to this guy and I said, are those blockers? And he was like a nice man. He showed it to me. And I'm like, I'm at unit seven. And I gave him $5. And he looked at me and he took the blockers out. That was kind of one of my first business lessons was the market for corruption. And oh my gosh, I did not sleep for the next three semesters. Speaker 1 (15:53) Cable. When you're a third tier, whatever you were, when you're just coming of age. Yeah, you saw like a half a Speaker 6 (15:58) boob and then it went off, right? Oh, my God. Yeah. And then it was like. They made sure you saw a half a boob. Yeah. That was good marketing. But Speaker 1 (16:05) cable TV for a 15-year-old boy with a lack of adult supervision, you're just, wow, this is. Why? Speaker 6 (16:13) I would assume he'd do well on YouTube, but this is a surprise. Speaker 1 (16:17) It's boring. It's, it's. It's going to go away. The more disconcerting thing across a million disconcerting things is that these people are clearly following a handbook from autocrats. Step one is attacking independent press. Step